XY Metagame Speculation [SPOILERS ITT]

[alexwolf]

Those aren't especially high by ou standards

Hell, look at kyu-b, and yvel has a worse typing! Plenty of pokes have offensive stats of that calibur, with much greater speed to match.

I'm not suggesting it will lie in ou, but it wouldn't be the most farfetched thing to happen

While you do have a point that Yveltal's typing is kinda in the same boat as Kyurem-B's (SR weak, lots of common weaknesses, with Kyu-B being weak to Steel, Fighting, Rock, Dragon, and Fairy, while Yveltal is weak to Rock, Ice, Electric, and Fairy), Yveltal is much less prone to priority, as it is only weak to Ice Shard which is never Technician boosted, unlike Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, to which Kyu-B is weak to. So, considering Yveltal's great bulk, even a STAB Ice Shard won't be a big deal for it. This is huge for Yveltal and cannot be stressed enough, as priority is one of the biggest thorns on Kyu-B's side. Also Yveltal sounds like it will be harder to wall, as Dark + Flying + Fighting give perfect neutral coverage, not to mention that Yveltal's Dark moves are going to be insane with its good attacking stats and the boost from its ability. Compare this to Kyurem-B, whose best set mostly takes advantage of its lesser 120 SpA, and only uses its Attack for Fusion Bolt, and you can see that Yveltal is going to dish much more pain. So it's going to be more powerful and more difficult to revenge kill, qualities which, if you added them to Kyurem-B, it would start seeming pretty Uber-worthy.

Of 'course all of this is theorymon that is not only talking about a metagame we know nothing of, but about a Pokemon whose exact movepool and stats we don't even know yet, so treat my post more like a kind of a fun read...

 

[Shiruba]

Cube's mostly OU because it has a shitty movepool that doesn't cater to its needs, tho. Oblivion Wing looks like it's gonna be sick, and it'll probably get Roost for recovery, plus its excellent ability to boost its dark STAB. I kinda doubt that it'd be OU, tbh, especially given that there doesn't seem to have been a power creep for this gen, aside from the megas, which you can only have one of per team [and some are either equal to or inferior to their regular counterparts, so there's that to consider...]

E: Greninja'd [kind of]
[plus Yveltal's STABs is no longer walled by steels, so it can benefit from the presence of faeries due to the more prevalent steel types, or at least not be hurt by them as much; it looks like something that'd get flamethrower, too]

 

[FrostFire]

^ uhhh, I don't think Yveltal benefits from the presence of fairies, given that they resist his STAB dark moves, and can potentially KO back with SE Fairy attacks. What's more, Steel won't really *rise* in usage just because of Fairies per se, mainly because Steel has always been such an amazing, omnipresent type anyway. So yeah... I think the main determining factor will actually be movepool - this can make or break so many pokemon. I mean, Yveltal might *look* like it should get Flamethrower (for example), but oh my god. The amount of pokemon that GF doesn't give inherently obvious moves to is painful. I think Flareon not getting Flare Blitz is the poster-boy for this.

Also, if Yveltal's stats are accurate, I don't think anybody could deny that his stat layout isn't ideal. I mean, 90 base speed isn't great (95 would be OK in Ubers, as that at least allows you to outpace the bloated 90 base speed tier). Also, Oblivion wing is cool - but it's flying type iiirc. That means it doesn't get boosted by Dark Aura, and base 135 offense, while good, isn't the highest. Also, having great mixed attacking stats is a bit of a mixed blessing too; imagine if, instead of having base 135 SA, Yveltal had 135 speed, and 90-95 SA (or something like that). I kind of feel like that would've been a bit better; and maybe a little less health to pump that offense up higher. But eh. Without knowing more about Yveltal in general it's impossible to say too much more about it.

Despite it's artwork looking much less threatening on the surface, it's actually Xerneas that I have my eye on. Fairy is shaping up to be pretty decent - that dragon immunity alongside nice fighting, U-turn, and dark resists is pretty cool. Obviously we still know almost nothing about it though; we don't know what Geomancy does, nor what it's stats look like. What's more, because Fairy is a new type, we can't really say what kind of movepool Xerneas is going to get. It'll be really interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Furai]

STOP TALKING ABOUT OU

IT SAYS UBERS

 

[MMII]

Anyways, I'm not too worried about Yveltal's effectiveness in Ubers. The change in steel's typing means that guys like him have a higher demend. Oblivion Wing is also very big for it. Not only is having a solid Flying STAB move really useful (there's still few resists) but the fact that it heals so much is a god send for a SR weak mon. It means that he won't have to waste any of the free turns he gets Roosting and can thus rack up damage on the guys coming into it while not letting hazards wear it down. The base stats are still very vague and it could end up with more than we expect.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Oblivion Wing is Flying type?
DAMN GAME FREAK YOU HAD ONE JOB.
Dark type would have been much better since Dark Aura :(

 

[MMII]

Not really, odds are he wouldn't have a Flying type move if it wasn't oblivion wing and if you are looking for damage there's still Dark Pulse, lol.

 

[hexatron]

So, posting this from the data collection thread.

Mega Lucario
http://i.imgur.com/aJ800GV.jpg

HP: 70
Att: 145
Def: 70
SpA: 140
SpD: 70
Spe: 115
BST: 610

Calcs done of gamefaq

This thing gets fucking Adaptability too.

 

[Ferdie]

Yes! 115 Base Speed is fantastic news because you don't need positive nature to outspeed base 100s.

 

[Talpr0ne]

What are Zygarde stats, so?

 

[GG Unit]

Oblivion Wing is Flying type?
DAMN GAME FREAK YOU HAD ONE JOB.
Dark type would have been much better since Dark Aura :(

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem all got more than one signature move.

 

[Ash Borer]

That STAB dark aura boosted sucker punch will make heads turn if Yvetal does get it. Not to mention pursuit.

Pursuit trapping in ubers isn't all that common, but it has a bit more utility with steel not resisting it, and a combination of that strong sucker punch, and pursuit could force a lot of switches, and pursuit kills.

 

[Χerneas]

What are Zygarde stats, so?

Zygarde = 95 to 112 / 89 to 105 / 120 to 137 / 80 to 97 / 86 to 103 / 94 to 110.
Unfortunately its physically defensive with no outstanding stats and mediocre defensive typing. Unless it gets a good signature move it probably wont see much play.

 

[rainbowumbreon]

seen as all this is mostly therymoning id like to ask are we considering mega evolution seperate pokemon like could lets say mega blazikien get banned while normal blazikien still ou

also because of mega abomasnow do you think hail could be more prevelent or will we have another rain dominated meta game
I know sun will go up with mega charizard but are those numbers OMG CHARIZARD IS NOW VIABLE AND I LOVE CHARIZARD!!!or is it going to be a legit weather starters and if so will spinning be used even more in ubers with hail and sun pokes being generally weak to SR.

 

[Kejmur]

Yes! 115 Base Speed is fantastic news because you don't need positive nature to outspeed base 100s.

I would still run Jolly, as Garchomp is too important target to not outspeed (although it depends on how common it's gonna be, MegaGarchomp may become more popular, who knows). Also with Adaptability running Bullet Punch is totally viable pick, so something like Infernape which easily outspeed you (and take resisted Bullet Punch) when you use Adamant Nature outspeeds you. Also Keldeo outspeeds you with Adamant nature and easily take +2 Bullet Punch, so I don't think it's really worth it to consider Adamant Nature, unless you run double priority or ExtremeSpeed. But with ES Terrakion and Gengar (And Scarf Tyranitar) can easily revenge kill you back. So yeah, Jolly all the way IMO.

EDIT: I mistook it for OU thread, delete post. My bad -_-. Yeah, in Ubers Adamant is better after all, as most Ubers are around 90-100 base speed anyway and Arceus + Darkrai + MewTwo are too fast to outspeed. Only relevant pick which is/may be somewhat common is Garchomp.

 

[Green]

Anyone know what the deal is with Mega Gengar or Mega Venusaur?

EDIT: also apparently I got mudkip. pretty coooool

 

[Ferdie]

I would still run Jolly, as Garchomp is too important target to not outspeed (although it depends on how common it's gonna be, MegaGarchomp may become more popular, who knows). Also with Adaptability running Bullet Punch is totally viable pick, so something like Infernape which easily outspeed you (and take resisted Bullet Punch) when you use Adamant Nature outspeeds you. Also Keldeo outspeeds you with Adamant nature and easily take +2 Bullet Punch, so I don't think it's really worth it to consider Adamant Nature, unless you run double priority or ExtremeSpeed. But with ES Terrakion and Gengar (And Scarf Tyranitar) can easily revenge kill you back. So yeah, Jolly all the way IMO.

Good points but few nitpicks.

- Garchomp is quite rare in ubers and runs mostly scarf set iirc so you would be slower no matter what. You shouldn't stay on Chomp w/o SD boost which means you can still take it with bullet punch + spikes sr support.
- Nobody uses Infernape in ubers but if they use, good for them.
- Keldeo is problem but it's another rare pokemon in ubers.

So you should def run bullet punch which means none Terrakion, Gengar nor Tyrannitar is not problem.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Good points but few nitpicks.

- Garchomp is quite rare in ubers and runs mostly scarf set iirc so you would be slower no matter what. You shouldn't stay on Chomp w/o SD boost which means you can still take it with bullet punch + spikes sr support.
- Nobody uses Infernape in ubers but if they use, good for them.
- Keldeo is problem but it's another rare pokemon in ubers.

So you should def run bullet punch which means none Terrakion, Gengar nor Tyrannitar is not problem.

I guess that he's talking about OU.

 

[Ferdie]

I guess that he's talking about OU.

Wrong thread then.

But yeah, in OU I would run Jolly too but that's completely different metagame. Apples and oranges...

 

[Takion]

The Standard MegaLuc set Ill be running is

SDance
EQuake
CCombat
BPunch

Earthquake for Aegislashes. Also anyone that resists BP usually can't outspeed MegaLuc so the other two attacks come in Handy.

However,

Aegislash is going to be a bitch to kill:
252+ Atk Lucario Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def (custom): 154-182 (45.16 - 53.37%) -- 89.45% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Kejmur]

The Standard MegaLuc set Ill be running is

SDance
EQuake
CCombat
BPunch

Earthquake for Aegislashes. Also anyone that resists BP usually can't outspeed MegaLuc so the other two attacks come in Handy.

However,

Aegislash is going to be a bitch to kill:
252+ Atk Lucario Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252 Def (custom): 154-182 (45.16 - 53.37%) -- 89.45% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Isn't Crunch better anyway as you hit Aegislash for SE damage anyway with Crunch (you keep Luke for Late Game Anyway So He Should Have Less then 100% of HP anyway) ? And being totally walled by Lugia, Giratina-O, Ho-Oh and Giratina is not something you want to happen if you ask me. With +2 Crunch you should be able to OHKO/2HKO all those targets.

 

[Takion]

You bring a good point. Im just really worried about the new meta thats all haha!

 

[Agonist]

Isn't Crunch better anyway as you hit Aegislash for SE damage anyway with Crunch (you keep Luke for Late Game Anyway So He Should Have Less then 100% of HP anyway) ? And being totally walled by Lugia, Giratina-O, Ho-Oh and Giratina is not something you want to happen if you ask me. With +2 Crunch you should be able to OHKO/2HKO all those targets.

King's Shield means physical contact moves get -2 Atk. EQ doesn't make actual contact, therefore, no attack loss.

 

[MMII]

You can also use Iron Tail to fuck over those Tina-o and shit. (Ho-Oh gets fucked by +2 CC)

 

[Kejmur]

King's Shield means physical contact moves get -2 Atk. EQ doesn't make actual contact, therefore, no attack loss.

Even if, I would really not run EQ because it doesn't provide as much coverage as Crunch with all those Psychic/Ghost Pokemon around in Ubers and the only other targets EQ also covers is... Poison Arceus as other forms are hit harder by CC or they outspeed you anyway and Poison is the only one which you outspeed and resist your fighting STAB (Support Set that is). So IMO really not worth it and just build your team around baiting/eliminating Aegislash.

I guess running Stone Edge is viable option as well for Lugia, Gyarados (trickroom :D), Full HP Ho-Oh (I doubt you OHKO Ho-Oh with +2 Crunch, although with SR I doubt it takes +2 CC anyway), but still IMO Crunch is superior pick.

EDIT: Yeah, Adaptability Iron Tail sounds good as well ;). Although accuracy is kind of a problem.