X&Y LITTLE CUP VICTIM OF THE WEEK (Week 5, SD Gligar) (SEE POST 207)

[leingodf8]

Well its certainly not clear cut this time round. Goomy is pretty easily the best counter, but its also a very mediocre pokemon overall. Magby is decent but has to run such an absurd EV spread that its just outclassed in every other role it could play outside of tangela counter. Any pokemon that has to run sleep talk / safety goggles is really pushing it, as your either playing a game of chance or wasting your precious precious item against 90% of the metagame. The faster tangela was interesting but again is forced to run a much more narrow item than eviolite/life orb which most tangela would prefer.

I pretty much just gotta go with vullaby. While yes, ancient power has a very very slight chance to 2hko, and yes rocks makes it a fair bit easier to deal with, vullaby is still easily the best counter to tangela that retmains a reasonable threat against any given team. In the strictest sense, it is not a true counter, but on average it should be able to beat tangela one on one, which is why it gets my vote.

 

[Ssin]

vullabby cuz it s my bby

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Corkscrew's Vullaby gets my vote. Not only does it handle Tangela reasonably well in most situations, but it doesn't have to sacrifice its ability to function against other common foes in the current metagame to carry out its purpose here. Realistically, if we're talking about actual battle scenarios, Vullaby holds its own in current XY Little Cup no matter what, and is one of the top bulky utility mons in the tier at the moment.

I would like to acknowledge that sparktrain's Goomy is probably a better counter, as it takes hits from offensive Tangela notably better and is not weak to Ancient Power. That said, if metagame viability is part of the criteria for which counter is the best, I cannot choose Goomy because it has little use in the metagame outside of accomplishing this one goal. But as I said: It's the best submission here for its intended role.

 

[Rowan]

Shouting's Koffing

seriously, this thing is a really legit mon in the meta, checking Gligar, Tangela and Swirlix arguably some of the most threatening things around along with a bunch of random physical attackers. Koffing is very underrated in today's metagame. It is 2hkod by hp fire after rocks but it's still a useful pokemon to have against tangela.

As for other counters, Vullaby does struggle to constantly counter it throughout the match if Rocks are up though it has Defog and is probably the most useful counter out there for the metagame in general.

Goomy really is the best counter though I'd probably be running Berry Juice on it due to its lack of recovery. And as others have pointed out, despite countering Tangela really well, it can't do much other than that.

That Psyduck set is really cool as well, I never would've thought of that - it does really well against sun teams in general which is cool. But against general teams it seems to weak to actually do that well, meaning it would only be good if sun was really dominant, which it isn't.

I do like the idea of Lickitung as well, though I'm not sure how it will fare against many other pokemon in the meta.

 

[deinosaur]

Being someone who plays Tangela under sun, I'd probably vote for Heysup's Tangela because it actually does a great job of stopping Tangela and countersweeping; being able to take out Tangela +1 at least. The rest are pretty useless after beating Tangela imo, so in terms of team support, Heysup's Tangela is probably your best bet to stopping Modest Tangela.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

I'd like to say something regarding Heysup's Tangela.

While I do agree that it is a very good answer to the given Tangela set that is to be countered, I did not consider it for voting because I feel that using the same mon to counter the given one objectively takes a large amount of creativity out of thinking of ways to handle it. Furthermore, I feel that just copying the mon in question and shifting stats around to have an obvious advantage can really be easily done in cases with tons of Pokemon and it's actually kind of mindless when it comes down to it, and just doesn't promote very much creative thought in my opinion. :(

The counter is absolutely great, but that is why I chose not to consider it. I don't mean any offense by this, of course, but I felt the need to express this.

 

[prem]

my yanma because its probably the most realistic set here. even heysups set is unrealistic because you dont run timid ever. i would never run fully spdef vullaby because it needs physical bulk to counter what it should actually be countering, fighting types.

munchlax gets an honorable mention as it can actually win and doesn rely on a speed tie lol

 

[Heysup]

</3. What I lack in creativity I make up for in cleverness, right?

Though I will say you usually can't counter a Pokemon by switching in another variant of the same Pokemon, it's just that this one happens to be Modest. Sure it's not creative, but unlike most of the submissions, it actually counters the Tangela in question and gives a good shot to actually sweep the opponents team.

My valuable 1.5 vote goes to Munchlax because it a) actually works and b) does more than just stop tangela.

 

[Melon]

I have to go with unitards Munchlax, because it's a solid counter to LO Tangela, and Sleep Talk Munchlax has a lot of use outside of just countering Tangela (Like never dying...)

 

[BadPandaPancham]

Corkscrew's Vullaby would have to take my vote, but I feel like Goomy isn't far behind at all. I mean, running Specially Defensive Vullaby means it isn't as good as it should be (Defensive > SpDefensive). Still, it's a mostly reliable choice, although if rocks are up and it's an ancient power switch in...but other then that, it is fairly reliable and deals with the situation well.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

my yanma because its probably the most realistic set here. even heysups set is unrealistic because you dont run timid ever. i would never run fully spdef vullaby because it needs physical bulk to counter what it should actually be countering, fighting types.

munchlax gets an honorable mention as it can actually win and doesn rely on a speed tie lol

You know, Yanma can only switch into one move from the given Tangela set. It won't like taking a HP Fire, it certainly won't like Sleep Powder, and Ancient Power is just total obliteration.

 

[prem]

You know, Yanma can only switch into one move from the given Tangela set. It won't like taking a HP Fire, it certainly won't like Sleep Powder, and Ancient Power is just total obliteration.

well im thinking more on realistic terms. no one is going to run that goomy or that vullaby unless they are a cteaming feg who knows the other person is running a tangela with said set. in an actual game you wont get the joy of having your mon at 100% so it can lose anyway if it relied on not being 2hkoed at certain percentages. i understand mine is a check but honestly if i had to pick between a check that kind of wins and does a lot more for the team than just tangela is something i would rather have

 

[sparktrain]

well im thinking more on realistic terms. no one is going to run that goomy or that vullaby unless they are a cteaming feg who knows the other person is running a tangela with said set. in an actual game you wont get the joy of having your mon at 100% so it can lose anyway if it relied on not being 2hkoed at certain percentages. i understand mine is a check but honestly if i had to pick between a check that kind of wins and does a lot more for the team than just tangela is something i would rather have

From what I understood, we're voting for entries based on how well the set counters the victim of the week, and how viable the set is in the current metagame (it says in the OP). For example, my entry is a solid counter, but isn't very viable outside this role. Yanma, on the flipside, is very viable in the metagame, and the set you mentioned is great, but it misses the the point of this thread. It's only a check, and not a great one, considering it's destroyed by 3/4 of Tangela's moves, and it relies on a speed tie to beat Tangela.

I do agree with you in the sense that winning a match depends on how well you can check the opponent's threats and threaten with your own, as it is impossible to have a counter for everything.

 

[Shouting]

I'd like to say something regarding Heysup's Tangela.

While I do agree that it is a very good answer to the given Tangela set that is to be countered, I did not consider it for voting because I feel that using the same mon to counter the given one objectively takes a large amount of creativity out of thinking of ways to handle it. Furthermore, I feel that just copying the mon in question and shifting stats around to have an obvious advantage can really be easily done in cases with tons of Pokemon and it's actually kind of mindless when it comes down to it, and just doesn't promote very much creative thought in my opinion. :(

The counter is absolutely great, but that is why I chose not to consider it. I don't mean any offense by this, of course, but I felt the need to express this.

Also to add on this, Heysup's tangela only works on Modest Tangela, and if you see Tangela for the first time (ie. team preview), you don't know if it is Modest or Timid, which doesn't really make it practical in a match.

I'll vote for Goomey just because it's something different. I might actually try goomey out sooner or later and I might use something like this set.

 

[Heysup]

well im thinking more on realistic terms. no one is going to run that goomy or that vullaby unless they are a cteaming feg who knows the other person is running a tangela with said set. in an actual game you wont get the joy of having your mon at 100% so it can lose anyway if it relied on not being 2hkoed at certain percentages. i understand mine is a check but honestly if i had to pick between a check that kind of wins and does a lot more for the team than just tangela is something i would rather have

Realistic terms are more of a distinguishing point of actual counters. For example, Yanma is not a counter, and even if it's a better Pokemon than 99% of the submissions, it's simply not a counter. As another example, Goomy is a counter, but it's a shitty Pokemon in all other regards so while I accept it as a valid option, I would not give it my vote. See the difference? Though many people aren't exactly basing it on that.

Also to add on this, Heysup's tangela only works on Modest Tangela, and if you see Tangela for the first time (ie. team preview), you don't know if it is Modest or Timid, which doesn't really make it practical in a match.

I'll vote for Goomey just because it's something different. I might actually try goomey out sooner or later and I might use something like this set.

The victim of the week Pokemon is a modest Tangela, not an unknown one. Occa Berry Tangela is a very practical Sun counter and Tangela lure.

It should be noted, it also has a reasonable success rate against Timid Tangela....but that's not the point.

 

[unitard]

I think the four sets that most reliably counter Tangela are Goomy, Lickitung, Psyduck, and Tangela. Since Psyduck and Tangela become less reliable with a slight deviation to our Tangela set, I think they're slightly worse options.

Both Lickitung and Goomy are very effective counters. Lickitung barely wins out because it's the more viable of the two sets. Heal Bell is always awesome and Lickitung is bulky enough that it's useful against other pokes as well. The recovery from Rest also allows Lickitung to counter Tangela multiple times if necessary (although Tangela's reliance on Sun makes this far less important).

 

[snowcrow]

im liking Goomy a lot so i vote for him

 

[EmeraldEnchanter]

Corkscrews Vullaby sounds pretty boss in the new meta and I can't think what Tangela can do about it so it gets my vote.

 

[Kavatika]

Corkscrew's Vullaby.

 

[Electrolyte]

Sorry for not commenting like I usually do, guys, I've been quite busy for the past few days. This post serves as a reminder for everybody that hasn't yet to get their thoughts in and vote. I'm going to close this tomorrow. There is some pretty heated discussion going on and there are a lot of different ideas being thrown around, so please, by all means, continue! :)

 

[copycatcat]

Sparktrain's Goomy

 

[Kingler]

Goomy fucks tangela over hard but so does vullaby, and the latter has a lot more general viability due to defog/roost

 

[Electrolyte]

Wow so although the voting was much more varied this time around, a clear winner still came out on top- Corkscrew's Vullaby, with 11 votes. Corkscrew now gets +0.5 voting points and reaches a total of 1.5 voting points. Close runner-ups were Goomy with 5 votes and Munchlax with 3.5. Nice discussions, everybody!
Also just a friendly reminder for everyone (especially prem) that following the rules is how we achieve success n_n If we are terrible users (like prem) and vote for our own sets then we will suck. A lot. (like prem)

Next week's Victim:

Dwebble @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Spd / 236 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Shell Smash
- X-Scissor

Ok now shit's getting real. Some people have been talking about Berry Juice recently so I decided that it would be fun to have a Berry Juice Pokemon as our next Victim. Dwebble is a real powerhouse threat. I'm sure we all know how scary Sturdy + Berry Juice + Shell Smash is. When you combine it with Dwebble's perfect coverage and decent stats all around, you've got yourself a pretty scary and threatening sweeper on your hands. Rock Blast lets it hit hard and multiple times, countering Sashes, Sturdies, and Substitutes and making it even harder to beat. Trying to O/2HKO it outright simply won't work because Berry Juice heals it back up and gives it a free turn to slaughter you. How would you beat this thing?

Also Heysup was really clever last round (I had to give him that) but if you decide to counter this with Jolly Dwebble, you will fail. I will warn you now.


Either way, happy posting n_n I will close this in about a week, or have someone else do it if I'm too busy

 

[sparktrain]

shitty turtle (Squirtle) @ Life Orb
Ability: Torrent
Level: 5
EVs: 252 Spd / 212 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Fake Out
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Brick Break

Here goes! First off, 0 HP IVs gives Squirtle only 19 HP, meaning it only loses 1 HP from Life Orb. The idea of this set is to two-shot Dwebble with Fake Out + Aqua Jet, effectively bypassing Berry Juice and Sturdy.

Game Plan: Switch in Squirtle if your opponent sends out Dwebble. If Dwebble decides to smash, it’s game over for the hermit crab.

212+ Atk Life Orb Squirtle Fake Out vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Dwebble: 3-4 (14.28 - 19.04%)
212+ Atk Life Orb Squirtle Aqua Jet vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Dwebble: 18-23 (85.71 - 109.52%)

Fake Out does at least 3 damage (this breaks Sturdy without Berry Juice being consumed) and Aqua Jet does at least 18 damage, which guarantees Dwebble's demise, even from full health. This scenario is the most likely one.

If for some odd reason Dwebble doesn’t smash, Squirtle will still come out on top, barring dumb shit like crits or bad luck against Rock Blast. Dwebble’s attacks will usually be enough to knock Squirtle into Torrent range (Life Orb recoil from Fake Out will help with this). Squirtle can live an Earthquake or an X-Scissor after rocks while still having enough HP remaining to dish out two Life Orb hits.

236+ Atk Dwebble X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Squirtle: 12-15 (63.15 - 78.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
236+ Atk Dwebble Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Squirtle: 10-12 (52.63 - 63.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

It will almost always live 3 hits of Rock Blast with rocks and 4 hits without rocks (which are fairly good odds, considering Rock Blast’s mechanics)

236+ Atk Dwebble Rock Blast (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Squirtle: 12-18 (63.15 - 94.73%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Fake Out + Torrent boosted Aqua Jet is enough to take out Dwebble.

212+ Atk Life Orb Torrent Squirtle Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dwebble: 18-23 (85.71 - 109.52%)

All in all, you’ll most likely just come in on Dwebble as he smashes, in which case you will always beat him.

 

[leingodf8]

Timburr @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Level: 5
EVs: 196 Atk / 156 HP / 156 Def
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch / Poison Jab (whatever coverage you want, doesnt matter against dwebble :P)

Well its back, pretty similar to the one that beat sneasel. Timbur can come in on pretty much anything, as an unboosted EQ is barely a 4HKO and you'll always win with either knock off or drain punch if it doesnt set up. If timburr comes in on a shell smash, the turns go as such.

Dwebble uses earthquake, does 42.3 ~ 53.8% Damage to Timburr
Timburr uses Drain Punch, heals back enough to live another eq (absoulte worst case your sitting around 72% hp), dwebble goes back to 100% health from berry juice.
Another EQ bringing you to low yellow, another drain punch healing you to about half health and now dwebble is in Mach punch range.

Or if you REALLY want to live on the edge, knock off + mach punch is a KO roughly 96% of the time (you have to get absolute minimum damage on mach punch and a low roll on knock off for it to fail)

In any event, timburr will always beat dwebble one on one. Man do i love this guy.