Metagame Tier Shift

[BoingK]

OP updated to reflect new bans and stuff. Special thanks to PociekMociek for the help!

 

[BoingK]

Ladies and gentlemen, we finally have a playable HOME meta! In this post I'm gonna post my initial thoughts on what mons I think have gained the most and which ones have lost out the most from the shifts.

THE BIG THREATS
This thing has a great STAB combo, a wickedly good signature move, and a blistering attack stat with a good speed tier. On top of that, it has Defiant to deter any Drifblim, one of the best and most common Pokemon preHOME, from ever trying to wall it, or from ever clicking Defog. This thing is going to be insane.
Budget Gapdos, but it trades any reliable STABs for a far superior stat line (140 atk, 136 speed) which crucially gives it the jump on non-scarf variants of Chien-Pao, and the ability to go mixed (with *150* spatk). This mon would have likely been over the top with Tera still around, and realistically there is a good chance it still could be. While relying on Acrobatics for your physical STAB admittedly sucks,
ok the more I think about it this thing does not have a good physical movepool at all but U-turn + a very diverse specially attacking movepool + nasty plot of all things sets this up to be a good mon.
85/135/85/175/155/95
What's bulky, decently fast, super strong, and access to great moves? Something that could get out of hand very quickly lol
Fast, VERY PHYSICALLY bulky pokemon. Uninvested defense is 432, scaling up to 612 with full investment. To top it all off, it's not an offensive slouch with NP + 105 spatk (which can be fully invested thanks to it's good physical bulk) and also has access to a wide array of good utility moves, including Parting Shot, Thunder Wave, and Taunt. The only real thing this thing is missing is reliable recovery, and being weak to fighting sucks, but I still expect this to be VERY good.

OTHER WINNERS

there are a lot lol

what if 130 atk head smash / flare blitz
Strong adaptability mons. Female probably better cause actual ghost stab (male is stuck with phantom force as its ghost stab cause no last respects)
I like this thing
has 140 atk now, 100 speed is no slouch.
Oh look it's the class of *checks notes* Almost Any Abliity Regenvesters
this is a nice drop to have. Strong fast attacker that ALSO outspeeds Chien-Pao, with knock / a strong signature, and access to Spikes.
was good pre-home, potentially better if Gapdos starts running rampant
Dragon's Maw means that Regidrago's attacking stat boosts are proportionally more than what others get (similar to Medicham with Huge Power, although not quite to that degree). The only fairies I really saw running around on ladder pre-home were Gardevoir and Tinkaton I guess? This thing might be good if the amount of fairies stays low
*ALSO* faster than Chien-Pao, but significantly weaker than its incarnate form. Regen is a great ability tho, so expect to see this thing around.
Hopefully Heatran and Volcanion don't gatekeep this mon, I really like Eruption
oh god
Unlike it's Kanto counterpart, I expect this to be limited to HO or offense
Could be good as a physical wall with access to wisp and fluffy? Rip last respects
could be insane, might not be, we'll see how it goes (honestly just use meow)
fairly bulky, and also strong on both sides. Intimidate is a good ability
rain is back babyyyyyy
I honestly think this mon is very cool, but its HP stat lets it down immensely. Still, access to spikes and spin, and being a spinblocker, AND that meaty attack stat could give this some use.
NU blissey anyone? god this thing was amazing preHOME and it just got even better lmao
real talk this is getting out of hand 255/35/35/100/160/80 this statline is just ridiculous

LOSERS
I thought this mon was cool preHOME. Good pivot with good stabs, and spikes + rocks, but the rise to OU just means it is not going to be usable with the immense powercreep.
Nerf sucks. When I was last laddering I mainly saw this as a Oricorio counter, but it had other uses too.
wasn't directly affected by the shifts, but there are just too many things that beat this for it to be good anymore. Sorry Drifblim, you had a good run o7
not the biggest of nerfs, but still sucks nonetheless
piping hot take incoming: Chien-Pao is going to struggle. Before there weren't all that many mons that outsped this thing, making it fast AND very strong. Now we have a bevy of options that naturally outspeed this thing and deal significant damage to it, making it easier to pressure. Since Chien-Pao usually wants HDBs, this itself is already a big loss, but we also have a much wider cast of mons that can wall this and cripple it with status, the most obvious being Moltres and Persian-Alola. It's still going to be a very strong threat, but I don't think it will be overbearingly strong as it was towards the end of preHOME

That's all from me for now, do have a rant or two about what y'all think are gonna be strong, I'd love to hear your opinions!

 

[Mitchellenwebb]

Yeah, as someone who was running a Clod, Corv, Dirge core in the last iteration, I appreciate the buff to Dirge (although I don't know if that core will work out anymore).

And regarding Blissey: A max Phys. Def. Chansey with Eviolite has 178 Def. A max Phys. Def. Tier shifted Blissey has 185 Def, while having a free item slot (and also more HP and about effectively 1% less Sp. Def.). I think considerations might need to be made.

 

[KaenSoul]

I think you guys could unban a bunch of ubers now that the powerlevel is much higher and will only increase as mons drop tiers because of HOME and the upcoming DLC.
Espathra without Tera should be just fine in here, Landorus-I is not really all that impressive compared to what the tier has, neither is Chi-Yu, hell how this format handles Palafin it may also be able to take on Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I think you guys could unban a bunch of ubers now that the powerlevel is much higher and will only increase as mons drop tiers because of HOME and the upcoming DLC.
Espathra without Tera should be just fine in here, Landorus-I is not really all that impressive compared to what the tier has, neither is Chi-Yu, hell how this format handles Palafin it may also be able to take on Dialga/Palkia/Giratina.

giratina i can see, maybe dialga too. not sure about palkia. espathra's dumb and annoying even without tera and i think it should stay gone (use flittle and work for your kills instead of being lazy). lando-i should probably drop but definitely keep him on the radar because sheer force is a motherfucker of an ability. do not let that fucking fish into any tier ever

 

[BoingK]

HOME ON THE RANGE (part 2)​

Hey y'all, we've been listening out and we revisited a few mons on the banlist for the upcoming Kickoff tour (yous should join, very epic tour). Here we go!

Currently Banned	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Landorus Incarnate	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Oricorio Pom-Pom	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Urshifu Single Strike	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Espathra	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	KEEP BANNED
Chi-Yu	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	Abstain	KEEP BANNED

Furthermore, we elected to vote on some other newcomers.

Currently Free	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Zapdos-Galar	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN
Hoopa	DNB	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	DO NOT BAN

As a result: Landorus-Incarnate, Oricorio Pom-Pom, and Urshifu Single Strike are unbanned, and Zapdos-Galar is banned!

We will continue to keep a close eye on these mons, but the council feels that these should generally be kept in check by the variety of buffed Pokemon in the tier, both offensively and defensively.

Oricorio Pom-Pom has risen to UU and thus benefits less from the tier's mechanic now. Additionally, there is no Tera, which is a massive loss to its sweeping sets. We'll continue to monitor this thing but Pom-Pom (and the other Oricorio formes) seem to have calmed down a little bit.

While decidedly weak, and lacking its much beloved Tera mechanic, we have (albeit not unanimously) decided to keep Espathra banned. It outspeeds the entire unboosted tier after two turns on the field, which makes checking it offensively nightmarish, especially when Espathra fits Substitute to ease prediction. After a few Calm Minds, pretty much nothing can check it defensively either, so we decided that we didn't need (or want) to see this thing in action.

No.

Strong, fast fighting type with good complementary STAB in Brave Bird, alongside U-Turn and an ability that makes Drifblim useless. We haven't seen it in action, but the pressure it puts on the team builder is immense, and the variety of sets it could possibly run is just too much for the tier to handle at this moment in time.

Hoopa was recently banned from NU, which makes its stat spread slightly less impressive, but 170 special attack with a great STAB combo is certainly nothing to scoff at. However, it's really slow by Tier Shift standards, which should, in theory, make it easy to check offensively. Nevertheless, we'll be keeping a close eye on it.

Tagging BoingK to update challenge code

 

[KaenSoul]

I have to say that I fail to see what makes Espathra worthy of staying banned, without Tera in the format the amount of stuff that can easily counter it is much bigger than most stuff in the tier to the point I'm not even sure if it would be viable if it was allowed, the only way it has to hit Steel Types is Low Kick coming from base 60 Atk so is not really an option, meanwhile Dazzling Gleam is mandatory to be able to touch Dark types making your set options quite limited, leaving you with either no Sub, Roost or Protect limiting the amount of Speed Boost you can get before being forced into going offensive.
It doesn't seem like that much of an upgrade compared to Oricorio-Pa'u or a bulky Stored Power user like Mesprit or Cresselia.
I think it is only fair to give it another chance, maybe after the next round of tier changes as more stuff drops tiers, with the powerlevel of low tiers quickly increasing because of HOME every month will drastically change this format as the old staples of each tier drop to the next.

 

[Yoko]

HOME ON THE RANGE (part 2)​

Hey y'all, we've been listening out and we revisited a few mons on the banlist for the upcoming Kickoff tour (yous should join, very epic tour). Here we go!

Currently Banned	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Landorus Incarnate	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Oricorio Pom-Pom	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Urshifu Single Strike	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Espathra	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	KEEP BANNED
Chi-Yu	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	Abstain	KEEP BANNED

Furthermore, we elected to vote on some other newcomers.

Currently Free	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Zapdos-Galar	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN
Hoopa	DNB	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	DO NOT BAN

As a result: Landorus-Incarnate, Oricorio Pom-Pom, and Urshifu Single Strike are unbanned, and Zapdos-Galar is banned!

We will continue to keep a close eye on these mons, but the council feels that these should generally be kept in check by the variety of buffed Pokemon in the tier, both offensively and defensively.

Oricorio Pom-Pom has risen to UU and thus benefits less from the tier's mechanic now. Additionally, there is no Tera, which is a massive loss to its sweeping sets. We'll continue to monitor this thing but Pom-Pom (and the other Oricorio formes) seem to have calmed down a little bit.

While decidedly weak, and lacking its much beloved Tera mechanic, we have (albeit not unanimously) decided to keep Espathra banned. It outspeeds the entire unboosted tier after two turns on the field, which makes checking it offensively nightmarish, especially when Espathra fits Substitute to ease prediction. After a few Calm Minds, pretty much nothing can check it defensively either, so we decided that we didn't need (or want) to see this thing in action.

No.

Strong, fast fighting type with good complementary STAB in Brave Bird, alongside U-Turn and an ability that makes Drifblim useless. We haven't seen it in action, but the pressure it puts on the team builder is immense, and the variety of sets it could possibly run is just too much for the tier to handle at this moment in time.

Hoopa was recently banned from NU, which makes its stat spread slightly less impressive, but 170 special attack with a great STAB combo is certainly nothing to scoff at. However, it's really slow by Tier Shift standards, which should, in theory, make it easy to check offensively. Nevertheless, we'll be keeping a close eye on it.

Tagging BoingK to update challenge code

gonna give my thoughts on this]
i agree with most of the bans and unbans but tbh i think urshifu-single-strike shouldnt have been freed this pokemon is actually broken even in tier shift imo, a stab always critical hit move is insane letting it negate stat drops/boosts, combined with its good movepool + a choice band for more damage or scarf makes it pretty strong the only thing is its pretty slow for this tier which makes it pretty easy to kill (not sure how well scarf urshifu would do since havent played a lot)
was also gonna make a little thing abt espartha but kaen sniped <:(

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

HOME ON THE RANGE (part 2)​

Hey y'all, we've been listening out and we revisited a few mons on the banlist for the upcoming Kickoff tour (yous should join, very epic tour). Here we go!

Currently Banned	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Landorus Incarnate	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Oricorio Pom-Pom	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Urshifu Single Strike	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN
Espathra	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	UNBAN	UNBAN	KEEP BANNED
Chi-Yu	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	KEEP BANNED	Abstain	KEEP BANNED

Furthermore, we elected to vote on some other newcomers.

Currently Free	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	KarpeSan	G-Luke	Natcrozma	RESULT
Zapdos-Galar	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN
Hoopa	DNB	DNB	DNB	BAN	BAN	DO NOT BAN

As a result: Landorus-Incarnate, Oricorio Pom-Pom, and Urshifu Single Strike are unbanned, and Zapdos-Galar is banned!

We will continue to keep a close eye on these mons, but the council feels that these should generally be kept in check by the variety of buffed Pokemon in the tier, both offensively and defensively.

Oricorio Pom-Pom has risen to UU and thus benefits less from the tier's mechanic now. Additionally, there is no Tera, which is a massive loss to its sweeping sets. We'll continue to monitor this thing but Pom-Pom (and the other Oricorio formes) seem to have calmed down a little bit.

While decidedly weak, and lacking its much beloved Tera mechanic, we have (albeit not unanimously) decided to keep Espathra banned. It outspeeds the entire unboosted tier after two turns on the field, which makes checking it offensively nightmarish, especially when Espathra fits Substitute to ease prediction. After a few Calm Minds, pretty much nothing can check it defensively either, so we decided that we didn't need (or want) to see this thing in action.

No.

Strong, fast fighting type with good complementary STAB in Brave Bird, alongside U-Turn and an ability that makes Drifblim useless. We haven't seen it in action, but the pressure it puts on the team builder is immense, and the variety of sets it could possibly run is just too much for the tier to handle at this moment in time.

Hoopa was recently banned from NU, which makes its stat spread slightly less impressive, but 170 special attack with a great STAB combo is certainly nothing to scoff at. However, it's really slow by Tier Shift standards, which should, in theory, make it easy to check offensively. Nevertheless, we'll be keeping a close eye on it.

Tagging BoingK to update challenge code

i have to wonder, with the changes to the stat boosts and gen 9's massive nerfs to stall, would it be prudent to at some point retest eviolite? iirc, that ban is a holdover from back when hp got buffed alongside all the other stats

 

[cat]

i have to wonder, with the changes to the stat boosts and gen 9's massive nerfs to stall, would it be prudent to at some point retest eviolite? iirc, that ban is a holdover from back when hp got buffed alongside all the other stats

basically every nfe is impossible to break through with eviolite, even Bandos (if it was freed) cannot OHKO it:

252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 560-662 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and thats not considering how chansey is a special wall. other physical behemoths like naclstack and hippo can shrug off physical attacks while also living special hits in a pinch. this warps the meta to only have basically one / two viable playstyle(s), (semi)stall, which is frankly an uncompetitive meta and thus eviolite should, and would not really deserve freedom.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

View attachment 536836
basically every nfe is impossible to break through with eviolite, even Bandos (if it was freed) cannot OHKO it:

252 Atk Choice Band Zapdos-Galar Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 560-662 (79.5 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and thats not considering how chansey is a special wall. other physical behemoths like naclstack and hippo can shrug off physical attacks while also living special hits in a pinch. this warps the meta to only have basically one / two viable playstyle(s), (semi)stall, which is frankly an uncompetitive meta and thus eviolite should, and would not really deserve freedom.

sure, but:

• chansey is setup bait without toxic, which is why it's down there in the first place instead of ou or uu like it's been in every other generation. it literally cannot touch ghost-types because the only damaging move worth running on it is seismic toss.
• even with eviolite, hippo and naclstack have less mixed bulk than regirock used to. i do agree that they would probably still be problematic thanks to their recovery and ability to force switches, but the bulk itself isn't the issue—we've seen fatter and survived it.
• even though its distribution isn't anywhere near what it used to be, knock off does still exist, as do trick and switcheroo. there are plenty of meta-relevant things that carry those, to the point where i would say that most teams have some form of item control.
• if eviolite does break a large number of mons and warp the meta in an unhealthy way, we could just ban it again. it shouldn't take long to figure out—worst-case scenario, the meta is fucked up for a couple days. (this test should definitely not take place until after the tournament, though)

 

[Hpdsd]

sure, but:

• chansey is setup bait without toxic, which is why it's down there in the first place instead of ou or uu like it's been in every other generation. it literally cannot touch ghost-types because the only damaging move worth running on it is seismic toss.
• even with eviolite, hippo and naclstack have less mixed bulk than regirock used to. i do agree that they would probably still be problematic thanks to their recovery and ability to force switches, but the bulk itself isn't the issue—we've seen fatter and survived it.
• even though its distribution isn't anywhere near what it used to be, knock off does still exist, as do trick and switcheroo. there are plenty of meta-relevant things that carry those, to the point where i would say that most teams have some form of item control.
• if eviolite does break a large number of mons and warp the meta in an unhealthy way, we could just ban it again. it shouldn't take long to figure out—worst-case scenario, the meta is fucked up for a couple days. (this test should definitely not take place until after the tournament, though)

I agree with this, but you forgot to mention that Eviolite also leaves the user vulnearable to Hazards. This was the reason why Blissey was always considered superior to Chansey in SS, in a gen with FAR better removal then we have now. Unban the old relic that was banned back in “Stall is OP, Tier Shift boosts to HP sucks”. Also we don’t have as many boosts for NFE and LC mons either since now every tier except OU to UU gives +5.

 

[cat]

since im on mobile rn im not gonna manually quote anything.
1) sure, chansey is passive and does pretty much nothing, but one setup attempt wont exist when it clicks twave, rendering it pretty much useless.
2) the thing is, hippo and nacl get access to instant recovery. they shrug off physical attacks, phaze / setup rocks / salt cure, heal, repeat.
3) knock from what mons? theres barely any knock users and even then no eviolite user is staying in on knock.
4) we can't just unban something and ban it 2 days later. thats just bad tiering, especially on an item that has more than good odds of warping the meta.
5) the amount of hazard removal we have easily outweighs blissey over chansey -quaquaval, cyclizar, bramble, etc are relevant mons that remove hazards.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

4) we can't just unban something and ban it 2 days later. thats just bad tiering, especially on an item that has more than good odds of warping the meta.

ou has been unbanning and rebanning genesect within a week every generation for a decade even though they've known for a fact it's meta-warpingly broken every time. is it "bad tiering" if it's a cornerstone of tiering policy?

 

[BoingK]

something something eviolite something

more something something eviolite something

There's no support on council at the moment to allow eviolite in, whereas OU council introduces Genesect in because (for some reason) they think it would be a good idea to see if it's balanced, ie there IS support on council for OU Genesect. Similarly, this gen Lando-I WASN'T tried in OU because the OU council did not support it enough, as opposed to previous generations. Unbanning and rebanning pokemon / things is certainly not a cornerstone of tiering policy, and I certainly don't think its necessary. Eviolite would bolster otherwise healthy offensive pokemon to ridiculously bulky (example: Bisharp, Primeape, Sneasel-Hisui, Qwilfish-Hisui, etc) and create defensive behemouths (Chansey, Naclstack, Sliggoo-Hisui, Hippopotas, etc). It's not earth-shatteringly difficult to fit decent hazard removal on a team, so although not running HDB does indeed suck, it's not the end of the world. Furthermore, doubling the bulk of an offensive mon is more prominent than it first sounds in this tier: it can give the mon in question an extra turn to set up, or more longevity in general. Eviolite would in all likeliness break a lot of things: I appreciate the discussion and it's something I'm personally keeping an eye on but an Eviolite test is not happening any time soon.

i have to wonder, with the changes to the stat boosts and gen 9's massive nerfs to stall, would it be prudent to at some point retest eviolite? iirc, that ban is a holdover from back when hp got buffed alongside all the other stats

The Item Eviolite will be banned from this day forward. The effect this item has on the metagame is extremely profound, centralising the metagame to be based entirely around bulky Balance builds, and forcing teams to carry multiple Knock Off users to have a chance at breaking defensive cores. Threats like Dusclops and Type: Null or near impossible to break through, forcing teams to always carry 1 or more Fighting / Dark types, limiting team structures.

I'm not entirely sure about gen 7, but it did end up becoming banned last gen, and while the argument here is specific to last gen, the main message holds true today (ie building specifically bulky Balance, having multiple KOff users (which aren't common anymore), and having to break a few specific breakers for specific mons (ie Chansey, Hippo, Nacl))

 

[BoingK]

Double post incoming because I'm silly

I have to say that I fail to see what makes Espathra worthy of staying banned

i think urshifu-single-strike shouldnt have been freed this pokemon is actually broken even in tier shift imo
was also gonna make a little thing abt espartha but kaen sniped <:(

I can only speak for myself yoko, I personally think Urshifu S is a little too much for the tier, but that's only in my imaginary theorymon headcanon, and I've yet to see it be broken in tourney.

As for the chicken:

Steel/Dark types

The only Steel / Dark types with top ladder usage above 4% (take these as common in the metagame I guess) as when ladder was alive (pre-Home, granted) were: Honchkrow (drops to DGleam), Zoroark (outclassed by its Hisuian forme), Scizor, Greninja (cannot stand up to a stat boosted DGleam), Umbreon, Copperajah, Grimmsnarl (relegated to HO builds), Tyranitar, Klefki (not good, also relegated to HO builds), Perrserker, Kingambit, and Weavile (drops to DGleam).
Out of these, Scizor, Umbreon, Copperajah, Tyranitar, Perrserker and Kingambit remain as at least soft checks that can come in on a boosted Espathra and threaten it out. None of these can come in repeatedly without Wish support due to a lack of recovery, and (with the exception of Scizor) take super effective damage from the VERY common fighting type attacks in the tier. In fairness, Medicham was legal for a long time, and Gallade rose in usage immediately after, so it may be different now (as Zapdos-Galar is banned now). My point however was that realistically Dazzling Gleam and Stored Power are probably the only coverage you need anyway, as the Steel and Dark types that are supposed to check it aren't very good into the meta. There probably are other hard counters, for example Blissey which stonewalls it (also smacked by fighting types).

All this granted, CM SP and DGleam are all mandatory, so being limited to one of sub/roost/tect does suck. However, creating the conditions for Espathra to sweep doesn't seem too impractical to me. I am keeping an open mind about Espathra, it may be that I'm completely wrong. I will continue to think about the birb, I may be inclined to give it a chance after more shifts / DLC.

 

[KaenSoul]

Was waiting for the tier shift to talk about Tier Shift.
As I was saying, with each passing month the powercreep of the tier will increase, as good mons keep dropping thanks to HOME slowly affecting low tiers, this makes old usage stats for this format less reliable when discussing stuff.

Now, the deal with Espathra is that it just isn't strong enough to be a problem in the tier, its bulk is much less impressive now limiting the chances it has to set up, while it can still try to gain Speed Boosts by spamming Sub (or Protect), it won't get enough power to break stuff if it doesn't get to CM a few times, there is a lot of stuff that can just prevent it from doing anything at all that has been added to the tier the past few months:

Thanks to Unaware and great bulk it can just ignore Espathra for the most part, and Espathra can't click Sub against it as it just make it die to Torch Song faster, well is a 2HKO either way, Skele just devours Espathra.

Thanks to its massive bulk it can pretty much switch into Espathra all day now, as dropping to RU turned this into a Juggernaut and I expect it to receive a lot of usage if it doesn't get banned here or in RU.

Now that it finally dropped to UU it can see some play here, it should be a decent enough pivot here, it also takes little from Espathra, depending on the sets it can OHKO/2HKO Espathra with Knock Off so is unable to set up.

After dropping to RU it now has an absurd 85/120/155 Bulk, so while it still takes some damage from Dazzling Gleam (max spa modest only has a 2% chance to 2HKO Wo-Chien at +3), it can still check it just fine.

Another of the recent drops, and while not bulkier than Kingambit is still different enough to may get some use here while being another mon that checks Espathra without issue, just don't let it set up enough times for Dazzling Gleam to be an issue.
Bonus HOME mons that weren't here for the ladder and would check Espathra:

All of those add to the list of checks and counters Espathra already has in this format, like Umbreon, Scizor, Bronzong, Houndoom, Tinkaton, etc. The tier just doesn't have enough mons that can just be set up fodder to it, and with all of Light Clay, Tera and Shed Tail banned there just isn't much you can do to support Espathra to have it win games without a lot of effort.

 

[BoingK]

I'm on my phone so I'll make this quick: I don't think I made it clear enough that I think as time goes on and Tier Shift begins powercreeping more, Espathra will fit the power level of the meta game. I wasn't too keen on releasing it the first shift after home because the aforementioned Espathra checks (see Kaen's post) were not good into the meta, which saw a high usage rate of Gallade in lieu of Medicham. Perhaps I was overly conservative when voting do not unban this month, but I regardless stand by the reasoning I made in my post. We will certainly be revisiting Espathra next month.

 

[BoingK]

Hiya I lied I'm back to talk about the recent shifts

(Click to zoom I think)

Losses
Aww man I actually liked using this
you were fun for the total of one game I used you
was not good, gets worse

Winners
It's about time... Rocks, spin, pivoting, knock, and a good typing! Looking forward to using this mon.
Lol
There are a lot of RU drops that I'm not gonna cover cause I'm on my phone but all look cool to me
HOLY
another unnecessary rain buff
now statistically better than its hisuian cousin (still outclassed tho)
what u doin down there blob (use blissey)
Was fairly terrifying preHOME, could have a resurgence if things go right for it
I like eruption spam

 

[BoingK]

September Slayte (sorry)

	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	Natcrozma	KarpeChan	RESULT
Hoopa Unbound	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN	BAN
Ursaluna	DNB	BAN	BAN	DNB	DNB
Espathra	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN	UNBAN

(G-Luke was unable to vote this time round)

Hence Hoopa-U is quickbanned, and Espathra is free!

Hoopa-U simply becomes too strong for the format with a UU boost, with insane mixed offenses which make it incredibly difficult to check. Despite being slow, it has good versatility in sets and a decent movepool, which in tandem with its 175/185 offenses made us feel it was too much at this point in time.

Becomes ridiculously strong and decently bulky, with status immunity, which was why we voted on this. With that said, it's REALLY slow by metagame standard to the point where even most defensive pokemon outspeed it. This is certainly one we're gonna keep our eye on, however.

I know a certain KaenSoul will be happy...
In all seriousness, Home's full effect on the lower tiers is ramping up the power level significantly, to the point where Espathra is no longer a concern.

we also started voting on this before it got UU quickbanned (thank you @uu council); it isn't a bannable threat as a UUBL mon.

 

[LettuceLeaf07]

it isn't a bannable threat as a UUBL mon.

i forgot what om this was for a full second there lol i thought we just hated roaring moon

 

[BoingK]

I haven't done this yet this month but will drop my thoughts on the shifts

banned uubl (thanks uu council)
Could be VERY strong, we'll see how it turns out
big stall nerfed :(
are both now NU, could become very strong into the future
also now NU, could be huge with bulk up sets or as an enabler of screens offense
fast strong pivot with good stabs
haha eruption go brrrrrrrrrrrr
very bulky pivot with rocks and twave
there are probably better pokemon than this but strong fighting type with u turn and coverage, can't go too wrong there

 

[BoingK]

DLC SLATE
Unfortunately G-Luke was unavailable to vote this time, meaning only two ban votes are required for each of the mons on this list:

	BoingK	Tea Guzzler	Cat	RESULT
Darkrai	DNB	BAN	BAN	BAN
Shaymin-Sky	DNB	BAN	Abs	No action

This means Darkrai is banned from Tier Shift! It's strong, fast, and has no shortage of coverage option to hit the admittedly sparse number of special walls in the metagame.

(I will make a huger post once Kickoff tour finishes analysing the meta (if I remember to))

 

[KaenSoul]

I must say that I'm quite surprised by Darkrai being banned, as it is, quite the weird mon to vote on in the first place to say the least.
It has good coverage, yeah, but outside of that is mostly outclassed by other mons in the format, let me show a few:

This thing has the exact same speed currently, higher SpA, and an actual ability (remember that Sleep is banned) and it can even u-turn out of its checks.

Not only has the same speed and higher SpA, but is also bulkier and has a secondary stab so it can spam moves much stronger than Dark Pulse.

Stronger and bulkier while only a bit slower, but can use Booster Energy, so it hardly matters.

And if we go for non-dark types there is a rather long list of special attackers that outclass Darkrai by quite a lot or at least compete with it, like Thundurus, Mismagius, Tatsugiri and Gengar that can also come on a passive move and click NP like Darkrai.

So yeah, I think that it would be good if Darkrai could be givin another chance, specially with a rather big tier shift coming next week as HOME is finally reaching the lowest tier at the same time DLC1 mons drop to UU, so stuff like Darkrai (and some other ubers) will actually be quite outclassed in Tier Shift.
Honestly, I think it would be a good idea if the council could make some posts before voting on something in the future, as this is quite the weird mon to be banning with so little justification, there isn't a clear reasoning on why it was being voted on and banned on top of that.

 

[Catzzadilla]

"Waiting for the day this gremlin -> reaches PU for a strong physical tera ice Boltbeam wall in snow" and other delusions are going through my head right now, one of my favorites being " he will use da sticky syrup as speed control"