copperajah kinda sucks if you want to use him for sheer force, he just gets iron head (which i think just gets boosted to around the power of heavy slam) and then weak coverage like rock slide and play rough. would be better off just using him for bulky sets which could be ok
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Metagame Tier Shift
- Thread starter BoingK
- Start date
hm. what about dragalgae then? granted its sp.atk is kinda doodoo but it is RU, + adaptability would be really good. it got hit hard by tera ban because now you can't tera dragon adapta + draco, but it could still be a good specs wallbreaker
EDIT: quick calc
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
EDIT: quick calc
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Toxapex: 268-316 (88.1 - 103.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
Last edited:
Hmm maybe but I'm not sure, but I think Unovan Zoro is underrated since it has very fast speed and very high spatk but I think people don't use it a lot is due to it's typing, could be nice as speed control but hey Idk
It's new stats:
EDIT: Forgot a coma
I thought the same as the previous poster and decided to build a team around Zoroark and its Illusion ability.
Sticky Webs Zoroark:
Honestly, this is a bit of a gimmick team and I'm afraid that by sharing it here its effectiveness could take a hit. BUT I've had a lot of fun with it, and even managed to hit top 20 on the ladder (under my Should I stay in? alt), so I thought I'd share it anyway.
This team is all about making the opponent second guess themselves. Sticky Webs turn Guts Ursaring into a devastating attacker and force the opponent to stay on their toes whenever you manage to get them up. I love Spidops because of its surprisingly strong First Impression which often catches people off guard and because of its ability to force non-ghost-type set-up sweepers to switch out with the help of Circle Throw.
Drifblim is a potential candidate for Illusion, though definitely not my favorite. Its main role is that of a defensive anchor that can also remove the hazards which can often give your Zoroark away.
My absolute favorite part of the team is the synergy between Zoroark and Toxicroak. Nine times out of ten, I will disguise Zoroark as Toxicroak. I decided to use Zoroark's weaker attack stat with Swords Dance + Sucker Punch just because people would probably expect to see that on the actual Toxicroak. The Illusion wouldn't even break after using Sucker Punch seeing as they can both learn that move. I took the same approach with Toxicroak and gave it Nasty Plot, which gave me the excuse to use one of my favorite priority moves: Vacuum Wave. Even though I decided to make a physical Zoroark and a special Toxicroak, you could totally flip them. Nasty Plot Zoroark can give the team much-needed fire coverage with Flamethrower while Swords Dance Toxicroak is just insanely strong and has a lot of cool coverage options. You could also just run Specs Zoroark for the immediate damage. Whatever you do, these two just go really well together given that Zoroark is immune to the Psychic attacks that Toxicroak fears while Toxicroak can switch into the fighting (and water) type moves that would threaten Zoroark. Very fun combo.
As for Krookodile, it's just there because I wanted a ground type. It is definitely quite threatening when under Sticky Webs as Moxie allows it to snowball out of control pretty fast. Stealth Rocks are nice when you can get them up. You could probably use another strong physical attacker but I definitely wouldn't swap its ability for Intimidate as that gives away the fact that it isn't a Zoroark (on the off chance that you ever find it necessary to do that).
So, that's the team. I hope you'll try it out and experiment a bit with the Zoroark and Toxicroak sets!
P.S. If you see me on the ladder, I'm definitely NOT disguising Zoroark as Toxicroak, that would OBVIOUSLY be very dumb :)
Edit: Spelling
Sticky Webs Zoroark:
Honestly, this is a bit of a gimmick team and I'm afraid that by sharing it here its effectiveness could take a hit. BUT I've had a lot of fun with it, and even managed to hit top 20 on the ladder (under my Should I stay in? alt), so I thought I'd share it anyway.
This team is all about making the opponent second guess themselves. Sticky Webs turn Guts Ursaring into a devastating attacker and force the opponent to stay on their toes whenever you manage to get them up. I love Spidops because of its surprisingly strong First Impression which often catches people off guard and because of its ability to force non-ghost-type set-up sweepers to switch out with the help of Circle Throw.
Drifblim is a potential candidate for Illusion, though definitely not my favorite. Its main role is that of a defensive anchor that can also remove the hazards which can often give your Zoroark away.
My absolute favorite part of the team is the synergy between Zoroark and Toxicroak. Nine times out of ten, I will disguise Zoroark as Toxicroak. I decided to use Zoroark's weaker attack stat with Swords Dance + Sucker Punch just because people would probably expect to see that on the actual Toxicroak. The Illusion wouldn't even break after using Sucker Punch seeing as they can both learn that move. I took the same approach with Toxicroak and gave it Nasty Plot, which gave me the excuse to use one of my favorite priority moves: Vacuum Wave. Even though I decided to make a physical Zoroark and a special Toxicroak, you could totally flip them. Nasty Plot Zoroark can give the team much-needed fire coverage with Flamethrower while Swords Dance Toxicroak is just insanely strong and has a lot of cool coverage options. You could also just run Specs Zoroark for the immediate damage. Whatever you do, these two just go really well together given that Zoroark is immune to the Psychic attacks that Toxicroak fears while Toxicroak can switch into the fighting (and water) type moves that would threaten Zoroark. Very fun combo.
As for Krookodile, it's just there because I wanted a ground type. It is definitely quite threatening when under Sticky Webs as Moxie allows it to snowball out of control pretty fast. Stealth Rocks are nice when you can get them up. You could probably use another strong physical attacker but I definitely wouldn't swap its ability for Intimidate as that gives away the fact that it isn't a Zoroark (on the off chance that you ever find it necessary to do that).
So, that's the team. I hope you'll try it out and experiment a bit with the Zoroark and Toxicroak sets!
P.S. If you see me on the ladder, I'm definitely NOT disguising Zoroark as Toxicroak, that would OBVIOUSLY be very dumb :)
Edit: Spelling
Oh hey I saw you while I was battling you (my user is Champion KaiZ btw :) ) and I gotta say you did trick me with that strat but yeah good job on trying on somethingI thought the same as the previous poster and decided to build a team around Zoroark and its Illusion ability.
Sticky Webs Zoroark:
Honestly, this is a bit of a gimmick team and I'm afraid that by sharing it here its effectiveness could take a hit. BUT I've had a lot of fun with it, and even managed to hit top 20 on the ladder (under my Should I stay in? alt), so I thought I'd share it anyway.
This team is all about making the opponent second guess themselves. Sticky Webs turn Guts Ursaring into a devastating attacker and force the opponent to stay on their toes whenever you manage to get them up. I love Spidops because of its surprisingly strong First Impression which often catches people off guard and because of its ability to force non-ghost-type set-up sweepers to switch out with the help of Circle Throw.
Drifblim is a potential candidate for Illusion, though definitely not my favorite. Its main role is that of a defensive anchor that can also remove the hazards which can often give your Zoroark away.
My absolute favorite part of the team is the synergy between Zoroark and Toxicroak. Nine times out of ten, I will disguise Zoroark as Toxicroak. I decided to use Zoroark's weaker attack stat with Swords Dance + Sucker Punch just because people would probably expect to see that on the actual Toxicroak. The Illusion wouldn't even break after using Sucker Punch seeing as they can both learn that move. I took the same approach with Toxicroak and gave it Nasty Plot, which gave me the excuse to use one of my favorite priority moves: Vacuum Wave. Even though I decided to make a physical Zoroark and a special Toxicroak, you could totally flip them. Nasty Plot Zoroark can give the team much-needed fire coverage with Flamethrower while Swords Dance Toxicroak is just insanely strong and has a lot of cool coverage options. You could also just run Specs Zoroark for the immediate damage. Whatever you do, these two just go really well together given that Zoroark is immune to the Psychic attacks that Toxicroak fears while Toxicroak can switch into the fighting (and water) type moves that would threaten Zoroark. Very fun combo.
As for Krookodile, it's just there because I wanted a ground type. It is definitely quite threatening when under Sticky Webs as Moxie allows it to snowball out of control pretty fast. Stealth Rocks are nice when you can get them up. You could probably use another strong physical attacker but I definitely wouldn't swap its ability for Intimidate as that gives away the fact that it isn't a Zoroark (on the off chance that you ever find it necessary to do that).
So, that's the team. I hope you'll try it out and experiment a bit with the Zoroark and Toxicroak sets!
P.S. If you see me on the ladder, I'm definitely NOT disguising Zoroark as Toxicroak, that would OBVIOUSLY be very dumb :)
Edit: Spelling
Might make my own rendition of this, it actually looks pretty sickI thought the same as the previous poster and decided to build a team around Zoroark and its Illusion ability.
Sticky Webs Zoroark:
Honestly, this is a bit of a gimmick team and I'm afraid that by sharing it here its effectiveness could take a hit. BUT I've had a lot of fun with it, and even managed to hit top 20 on the ladder (under my Should I stay in? alt), so I thought I'd share it anyway.
This team is all about making the opponent second guess themselves. Sticky Webs turn Guts Ursaring into a devastating attacker and force the opponent to stay on their toes whenever you manage to get them up. I love Spidops because of its surprisingly strong First Impression which often catches people off guard and because of its ability to force non-ghost-type set-up sweepers to switch out with the help of Circle Throw.
Drifblim is a potential candidate for Illusion, though definitely not my favorite. Its main role is that of a defensive anchor that can also remove the hazards which can often give your Zoroark away.
My absolute favorite part of the team is the synergy between Zoroark and Toxicroak. Nine times out of ten, I will disguise Zoroark as Toxicroak. I decided to use Zoroark's weaker attack stat with Swords Dance + Sucker Punch just because people would probably expect to see that on the actual Toxicroak. The Illusion wouldn't even break after using Sucker Punch seeing as they can both learn that move. I took the same approach with Toxicroak and gave it Nasty Plot, which gave me the excuse to use one of my favorite priority moves: Vacuum Wave. Even though I decided to make a physical Zoroark and a special Toxicroak, you could totally flip them. Nasty Plot Zoroark can give the team much-needed fire coverage with Flamethrower while Swords Dance Toxicroak is just insanely strong and has a lot of cool coverage options. You could also just run Specs Zoroark for the immediate damage. Whatever you do, these two just go really well together given that Zoroark is immune to the Psychic attacks that Toxicroak fears while Toxicroak can switch into the fighting (and water) type moves that would threaten Zoroark. Very fun combo.
As for Krookodile, it's just there because I wanted a ground type. It is definitely quite threatening when under Sticky Webs as Moxie allows it to snowball out of control pretty fast. Stealth Rocks are nice when you can get them up. You could probably use another strong physical attacker but I definitely wouldn't swap its ability for Intimidate as that gives away the fact that it isn't a Zoroark (on the off chance that you ever find it necessary to do that).
So, that's the team. I hope you'll try it out and experiment a bit with the Zoroark and Toxicroak sets!
P.S. If you see me on the ladder, I'm definitely NOT disguising Zoroark as Toxicroak, that would OBVIOUSLY be very dumb :)
Edit: Spelling
Yoko
I COULD BE BANNED!
hi new comer here and was wondering why iron thorns isnt that talked about alot on paper it looks good
HP 100
Atk 154
Def 130
SpA 90
SpD 104
Spe 92
(very good atk and defense with decenet spd and kinda mediocre speed)
gets 447 attack with modest nature
407 with jolly nature also has a very good movepool with setup moves like dragon dance or swords dance
one drawback is its weakness to common types like Fighting, Grass, Ground, Water and its pretty mediocre speed but with a ddance that really isnt a problem
it can easily setup on banded bb flying mons without taking a lot of damage and sweep most teams its also very kinda bulky with its 130 defense
a set ive been enjoying so far is:
Iron Thorns @ Air Balloon
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Thunder Punch
works pretty well on a sticky web team and air ballon makes it immune to ground for a bit which is a huge help
HP 100
Atk 154
Def 130
SpA 90
SpD 104
Spe 92
(very good atk and defense with decenet spd and kinda mediocre speed)
gets 447 attack with modest nature
407 with jolly nature also has a very good movepool with setup moves like dragon dance or swords dance
one drawback is its weakness to common types like Fighting, Grass, Ground, Water and its pretty mediocre speed but with a ddance that really isnt a problem
it can easily setup on banded bb flying mons without taking a lot of damage and sweep most teams its also very kinda bulky with its 130 defense
a set ive been enjoying so far is:
Iron Thorns @ Air Balloon
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Thunder Punch
works pretty well on a sticky web team and air ballon makes it immune to ground for a bit which is a huge help
i haven't been playing super often, but dugtrio and muk are carrying me currently.
team: https://pokepast.es/ae06e0859ccc2fb8
some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1864573999
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865108985-7y3zbmu6nq7049k9de45k1tyyug9efbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865113084
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865123640-uipwxrey9e7h0yppjliyce8gj438bcxpw
dugtrio with sashed sd cleans up, and muk is an absolute WALL. insane hp, great spdef, and curse makes it tank most physical moves - as well as serve them as well. poison jab + poison touch gives a great poison chance, so even tanky non-steel/poisons can be chipped down. i'd love some feedback on the team, since i haven't been playing that much recently.
team: https://pokepast.es/ae06e0859ccc2fb8
some replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1864573999
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865108985-7y3zbmu6nq7049k9de45k1tyyug9efbpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865113084
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1865123640-uipwxrey9e7h0yppjliyce8gj438bcxpw
dugtrio with sashed sd cleans up, and muk is an absolute WALL. insane hp, great spdef, and curse makes it tank most physical moves - as well as serve them as well. poison jab + poison touch gives a great poison chance, so even tanky non-steel/poisons can be chipped down. i'd love some feedback on the team, since i haven't been playing that much recently.
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I genuinely think iron thorn's main problem is that it does not get much free turns to set up as it doesn't force out much. However the thorns set I love the most is adamant choice band thorns in terrain. 800+ attack firing off powerful attacks. Great for hyper offense looking to catch balance off guard and break the stall pokemon of the meta.
Absolutely. Sandaconda, Cacturne, Palossand (partially), and Froslass are all massive problems rn.
What do ya'll think of Alomomola rn? I've been using it on stall to some incredible success, as it has far more bulk and utility imo than Slowbro. I never see it on ladder so I wanted to hear your guys' thoughts.
For reference this is the team I've been rocking it on https://pokepast.es/d844b2006829d3e4
With 165/95/60, Regenerator, Wish, a pure Water typing and some decent utility moves, Mola from my experience has been an essential pivot against mons like Honchkrow, and completely walling any Palafin/Rain teams. Alongside SpD AV Klawf, it also forms a shockingly powerful regenerator core, that I've only really had trouble switching into Flapple.
For reference this is the team I've been rocking it on https://pokepast.es/d844b2006829d3e4
With 165/95/60, Regenerator, Wish, a pure Water typing and some decent utility moves, Mola from my experience has been an essential pivot against mons like Honchkrow, and completely walling any Palafin/Rain teams. Alongside SpD AV Klawf, it also forms a shockingly powerful regenerator core, that I've only really had trouble switching into Flapple.
I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but will there be some sort of Tier Shift tournament coming soon?
Don't worry, you've asked in the right place! There won't be a Tier Shift tournament in the near future unfortunately, one of the main factors being that OMPL is taking the spotlight. We'll try to have one after Home drops / OMPL ends (whichever of those comes last)
Hope this helps!
some concepts for when things are released
https://pokepast.es/0f23a406c824ff11
https://pokepast.es/0f23a406c824ff11
I ain’t seen anyone talk about Clawitzer I’m pretty sure. This is basically just the smogon analysis for NU specs but with AV and SpD over Speed:
BLOOD. (Clawitzer) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mega Launcher
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Water Pulse
I’m pretty sure adjusted stats come out to 71/98/113/145/114/84.
Max investment into SpA combined with a functional base stat of ~145 makes for a very funny number. Apart from that, it also has the bulk to take certain hits quite well: it’s survived a +2 Mismagius thunderbolt (and OHKOed it in return) and a +1 Quaquaval ?brave bird? (I forgot what move, but I ran some calcs and if it was CC i’dve died). Overall, very solid power, great special bulk, and good enough physical bulk.
BLOOD. (Clawitzer) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Mega Launcher
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Water Pulse
I’m pretty sure adjusted stats come out to 71/98/113/145/114/84.
Max investment into SpA combined with a functional base stat of ~145 makes for a very funny number. Apart from that, it also has the bulk to take certain hits quite well: it’s survived a +2 Mismagius thunderbolt (and OHKOed it in return) and a +1 Quaquaval ?brave bird? (I forgot what move, but I ran some calcs and if it was CC i’dve died). Overall, very solid power, great special bulk, and good enough physical bulk.
Jrdn
Not a promise, I'm just gonna call it.
https://pokepast.es/f09382966a48e3ef
Went 32-1 with this team, think the loss was a timeout but don't remember 100%
Went 32-1 with this team, think the loss was a timeout but don't remember 100%
Hi friends, we have some newly banned stuff for the Home Update:
First of all, we have the obv brokos: Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Dialga-Origin, Palkia-Origin, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Arceus, and all its forms, Zacian, Eternatus, Urshifu-Single-Strike Calyrex-Shadow Calyrex-Ice
Up next, we have our council members' votes:
follow up to Last Respects ban:
tldr:
banned: Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Dialga-Origin, Palkia-Origin, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Arceus, and all its forms, Zacian, Eternatus, Urshifu-Single-Strike Calyrex-Shadow Calyrex-Ice, Landorus-I, Last Respects
added Evasion Clause, replacing Evasion Moves Clause
unbanned Houndstone
Tagging Kris to implement, thank you!
First of all, we have the obv brokos: Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Dialga-Origin, Palkia-Origin, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Arceus, and all its forms, Zacian, Eternatus, Urshifu-Single-Strike Calyrex-Shadow Calyrex-Ice
Up next, we have our council members' votes:
| dont ban the council :c | BoingK | KarpeSan | Tea Guzzler | G-Luke | Natcrozma | Result |
| Landorus-I | BAN | DNB | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN |
| Hoopa | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | ABS | DNB |
| Hoopa-U | BAN | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Magearna | ABS | DNB | BAN | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Urshifu-Rapid | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Sneasler | ABS | DNB | DNB | DNB | ABS | DNB |
| Enamorus-I | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Gengar | DNB | DNB | ABS | DNB | BAN | DNB |
| Spectrier | BAN | DNB | DNB | BAN | ABS | DNB |
| Zamazenta | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Zamezenta-Crowned | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB | DNB |
| Evasion Clause | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES | YES |
| Last Respects | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN | BAN |
follow up to Last Respects ban:
| Houndstone | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN | UNBAN |
tldr:
banned: Mewtwo, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Dialga-Origin, Palkia-Origin, Giratina, Giratina-Origin, Arceus, and all its forms, Zacian, Eternatus, Urshifu-Single-Strike Calyrex-Shadow Calyrex-Ice, Landorus-I, Last Respects
added Evasion Clause, replacing Evasion Moves Clause
unbanned Houndstone
Tagging Kris to implement, thank you!
What's the difference between these two clauses?
Evasion Clause is all forms of evasion: moves, abilities, items.
The other one was just for moves, so instead of just Minimize and Double Team, it also has Bright Powder, Snow Cloak and other stuff like that banned too.
uh, so why are the obviously broken Ubers currently on the ladder then? https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9tiershift-1874758635-ynlbhhqecgrvws604ztatlf4x21h0copw
For bans to go live, they have to be pushed through GitHub, then the server needs to be updated. Unfortunately, the push didn't go through on time, so we're just gonna have Ubers on ladder for the rest of the day.
Happy laddering, folks!
evasion clause includes items like bright powder and i believe also abilities like sand veil
https://t.co/0qkxpMrN2y we have new shifts!!
the metagame is going to be a little bit frantic for a while, but there are a few interesting things in here to look at and theorymon!
the metagame is going to be a little bit frantic for a while, but there are a few interesting things in here to look at and theorymon!
Hoopa-Unbound with 175 Atk and 185 Sp. Atk...