Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

[Shaymin Sky]

I actually find this to be hilarious. Acupressure isn't even reliable, and if you get Taunted or Hazed once, it's all over.

That supposed 6-0? That isn't a 6-0. They lost a Pokemon to it once and then gave up. (But I can't say I blame them.)

Garg would actually dookie all over that if it was Tera Fairy. You click Salt Cure once and now Tsareena is taking more than it can heal. All the meanwhile, Garg just sort of laughs at it. Grimmsnarl just Prankster Taunts it, Grafaiai Prankster Taunts/Encores it and now you're stuck spamming it... There's a number of ways to deal with this. Red Card is especially effective, as all those turns you spent setting it up is now wasted.

Of course, then there is also Clod/Dirge/Bozo with Unaware that ignores all that nonsense and can start smacking you for damage.


Unaware ignores Evasion.

only haze user in the tier is pex which gets taunted, and depending on if ur covert u can ignore salt cure, and if the opponents already used tera and you have an attack boost or garg is chipped they cant even get a salt cure off anyways. Grimnsnarl prankster taunt is like so niche btw lol grimn is barely used on HO since orm is just that much better as an HO lead. Red card is like very rare too, and if your argument is use red care to beat rng setup mon then lol.

 

[SpritePony]

only haze user in the tier is pex which gets taunted, and depending on if ur covert u can ignore salt cure, and if the opponents already used tera and you have an attack boost or garg is chipped they cant even get a salt cure off anyways. Grimnsnarl prankster taunt is like so niche btw lol grimn is barely used on HO since orm is just that much better as an HO lead. Red card is like very rare too, and if your argument is use red care to beat rng setup mon then lol.

lmao. "Taunt Grimm is niche", "Red Card is very rare".

Look at this clown. lmfao.

 

[1LDK]

only haze user in the tier is pex

You're telling me none of this would have happened if Max Hp max defense Haze recover chien pao?

 

[SpritePony]

You're telling me none of this would have happened if Max Hp max defense Haze recover chien pao?

Anything with Sap Sipper also beats it 1v1 lmao.

 

[Magcargo]

Stall: This set is unbeatable for stall,

In that case, I think its an element worth preserving.

 

[Shaymin Sky]

Anything with Sap Sipper also beats it 1v1 lmao.

"Are the Sap sipper mons in the room with us right now"

 

[SpritePony]

"Are the Sap sipper mons in the room with us right now"
View attachment 500834

 

[Mega Breloom]

only haze user in the tier is pex which gets taunted, and depending on if ur covert u can ignore salt cure, and if the opponents already used tera and you have an attack boost or garg is chipped they cant even get a salt cure off anyways. Grimnsnarl prankster taunt is like so niche btw lol grimn is barely used on HO since orm is just that much better as an HO lead. Red card is like very rare too, and if your argument is use red care to beat rng setup mon then lol.

On then look at this:

Murkrow @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Haze
- Taunt
- Perish Song
- Foul Play
It not only stops that meme set but also other legit set up mons.

But now talking seriously, acupressure isn't realliable and there a lot of legit ways as others have mentioned already, even Drapion which is the best user of it doesn't raise more than RU even if also has access to Power trip.

 

[awyp]

Acupressure is uncompetitive but so is Revival Blessing but it’s manageable so I don’t see it being banned. Anything that increases evasion is a big problem, Acupressure was never banned in the past so I doubt it will be the case now.

 

[Nish the Great]

Acupuncture is uncompetitive but so is Revival Blessing but it’s manageable so I don’t see it being banned. Anything that increases evasion is a big problem, Acupuncture was never banned in the past so I doubt it will be the case now.

Revival blessing isn’t luck based, nor does it trigger a banned stat boost

 

[SpritePony]

Revival blessing isn’t luck based, nor does it trigger a banned stat boost

No, but it's still extremely uncompetitive. For 8 generations, when a Pokemon went down in PvP, it stayed down. Bring able to bring them back for free (up to 4 times a game with Rab + Paw + 2 Leppa) is wholly uncompetitive.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

ACCUPRESSURE NEEDS TO BE BANNED!


View attachment 500818
Tsareena @ Leftovers/Covert Cloak
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water/steel
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpD / 128 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Taunt
- Acupressure
- Synthesis


About the set
This sets main goal is setting up various boost with Acupressure, a move that doubles a random stat INCLUDING EVASION! Typically the game is over once you get an evasion boost since it is +2 evasion, not a +1. However if you happen to get a speed, defense, and special defense boost you typically still have a chance to sweep. The only useless boost are Accuracy and special attack but the odds of getting these useless boost are low as they are a 2/7 chance. Taunt prevents opposing setup sweepers, toxic users, taunt users, and recovery such as roost. Then we have synthesis for self sustain, and finally bullet seed for a general stab move. I specifically use bullet seed for its PP of 48, as opposed to power whip which can be easily stalled out by bulkier unaware Pokémon.

THREATS
It's literally just Hatterene + Dondozo, or Skeledirge (no tera) lol practically any other Pokémon can realistically lose to this given the correct boost (evasion lmfao). Dragons also pose quite a threat, Specs dragapult with draco meteor can be quite scary without the x2 special defense. Roaring Moon, Hydreigon, and Dragonite require quite good RNG to defeat as well but usually with a x2 in defense or special defense or an outright evasion boost can get the job done.

Defensive Utility
This Pokémon hard walls non-tera Breloom, and the general bulk Tsareena has of 72/98/98 is nothing to scoff at as it can avoid most 2 hit ko's from non super effective attacks. With the added typing advantage of tera water or steel depending on which chosen, the array of Pokémon you switch in on becomes far greater.

Matchups

Stall: This set is unbeatable for stall, you can almost always lead Tsareena and start setting up acupressure's, while taunting Clodsire, Dondozo, and Corviknight from setting up or going for a toxic in Clodsires case. The only possible way stall can beat Tsareena is with Skeledirge, but currently stall cannot afford to fit Skeledirge due to meta constraints so this surprise MU is unlikely to occur.

Semi stall: The matchup is similarly favorable in comparison to stall, with the caveat of Skeledirge being more likely as well as Tera-Garganacl being a nuisance unless you are utilizing covert cloak Tsareena.

Balance: Matchups against balance can usually go either way, really its all about opportunism as I have never had a MU vs balance where Tsareena couldn't win unless there was a Roaring Moon or Hydreigon along with shit boost rng. There is high variance in the effectiveness of Acu Tsareena but I'd argue the odds of her having a shot at winning a match vs balance teams is around 60% which is problematic for the tier in my opinion given the luck involved. Although there is luck involved you are quite likely to get a boost that actually matters significantly, and you have a 1/7 chance of straight up winning (evasion) which is the same odds as a scald burn.

Bulky Offense: Identical to balance, but the offensive nature of this archetype typically gives me more MU scenarios where they don't have a Skeledirge or Dondozo + Hatterene to mess me up, and Roaring Moons are quite rare on this archetype.

Offense: This matchup is actually quite good, usually the setup spam on offense is not as great as hyper offense so it gives you breathing room to attempt to get acupressure's without the risk of dealing with Skeledirges, Garganacl's, Dondozo + Hatterene, and Hydreigon on raw offense is not nearly as common compare to balance or bulky offense. Id argue this or balance is the 3rd best archetype to face besides stall and semi stall (both of those being normally AUTO WINS)

Hyper Offense: bad lol, if you get evasion you probably can win given most HO teams don't have the usual Pokémon that give Tsareena trouble, the issue is just getting the positioning to Acupressure in the first place. If you manage to get a +2 speed boost however you are kind of in a really good spot, since bullet seed breaks sashes and taunt can be spammed which is quite useful against HO. It's not unlikely to win with Tsareena once you get an Acupressure but really the problem is getting it in, as well as weighing the odds of "is it worth it to try to get the rng setup vs such a volatile team".

plz ban this from tier its rng sweep mon with minimal counterplay besides Skeledirge which u can beat by forcing its tera xd the odds of a x2 good boost is literally 80% chance lol like cmon hows this allowed.

Replays of this in 1800's through setup or providing general defensive utility

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824412456-lng0o2ywn8z8z67q118gnkmgistzpmapw
Tsareena sweep 6-0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824420924
Tsareena sweep lategame with tera typing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824038753
Insane defensive utility of Tsareena winning me the game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824443926
I only lost this because I threw by not synthesis vs breloom when I could have lol idk it was 130 turns i had a brainfart i didnt even care anymore, but the entire game just revolved around Tsareena's pressure none of my other mons even got a kill LOL and I was switching Tsareena in on Hatterenes, Dondozo, and Breloom and getting boost pressuring shit I mean its insane that an entire game can revolve around 1 mon for 130 turns lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824431666
General defensive utility of Tsareena clutched me the DUB lowkey, this was close if this thing didn't live on 1 early on I was screwed lowkey.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798153510-s38bf4nuari8h5shavonydtt13rr9o6pw
Tsareena 6-0 stall from turn 1.

Conclusion
Overall this team where I literally just replaced scream tail with Tsareena so the teams not even specifically optimized for the set LOL, peaked low 1800's with like 6 games of play kekw, can definitely reach 1900's but I don't care enough I just want Acupressure gone before some kids actually make teams AROUND this shit and make ladder even more hell. If I can get 1800 with minimal effort and slapping the mon on a team, imagine someone who is actually trying lmao. TBH anything that can boost evasion should be banned (besides metronome) Finchinator


EDIT: I forgot to mention, kowtow cleave does not check accuracy, if you don't have defense boost a late game kingambit can be a bit scary but I've yet to lose to 1.

the fact that it has "minimal counterplay besides skeledirge" (which isn't even true—i can think of about ten things off the top of my head that can beat this) doesn't make it broken because skeledirge also happens to be really fucking good

even Drapion which is the best user of it doesn't raise more than RU even if also has access to Power trip.

this, though, i disagree with. power trip drapion would need only 2 turns to start out-damaging the knock off set and if you let it get 2 acupressures off it's likely gonna get more, plus it muscles through the unaware matchup. not reliable by any means because acupressure obviously, but i think it would be uu at least

 

[Eeveeto]

I will be in favour of banning Accupressure the moment a dominating Meta threat that would still be good without it, gets the Move. Right now, I am and will always be on the side of all haxy strategies as long as the strategies are used by very uncommon Mons and therefore make the lives of the better players a hell.

Revival Blessing isn,t uncompetitive in the slighest. Yes, it brings back a Mon. But in order to use it, you have to use a Bad Mon (Rabsca) or a suboptimal (Band is 1000 times better) set of another non-OU Mon (Pawmot), so you kinda have 6,5 Mons, not 7. Maybe it would be uncompetitive if something like Screaming Tail (aka a Mon with very good bulk and a decent typing, meaning that it can effectively use Restalk) got it, but as I already said, the move is balanced by the fringe viability distribution it has.

 

[SpritePony]

I will be in favour of banning Accupressure the moment a dominating Meta threat that would still be good without it, gets the Move. Right now, I am and will always be on the side of all haxy strategies as long as the strategies are used by very uncommon Mons and therefore make the lives of the better players a hell.

Revival Blessing isn,t uncompetitive in the slighest. Yes, it brings back a Mon. But in order to use it, you have to use a Bad Mon (Rabsca) or a suboptimal (Band is 1000 times better) set of another non-OU Mon (Pawmot), so you kinda have 6,5 Mons, not 7. Maybe it would be uncompetitive if something like Screaming Tail (aka a Mon with very good bulk and a decent typing, meaning that it can effectively use Restalk) got it, but as I already said, the move is balanced by the fringe viability distribution it has.

Agree to disagree. I know any time I run into Rab/Paw in-game, I disconnect without a second thought. I'm not willing to play the 90/10 chance that they are carrying it.

 

[Shaymin Sky]

To further an arguement. The fact that this isn’t even an optimized team for it, (something like tspikes+knock spam or screens for example) that can abuse this set and it still puts in work due to pure rng is just stupid. The best counterplay to this unless you have like skele is trying to stop it before it sets up but the issue with that is 1. Evasion and 2 Tera. These 2 factors let this set become even more dumb as it tilts the rng more and more to its favor.

I will be making a team with v0ltag3 & pinkacross utilizing tspikes, screens or both in conjunction with Tsareena, only because there are some doubters. Time to ruin the tier.

 

[1LDK]

I will be making a team with v0ltag3 & pinkacross utilizing tspikes, screens or both in conjunction with Tsareena, only because there are some doubters. Time to ruin the tier.

also add trapper garganacl for the salt and the haha reaction farm
I'll give you a cola

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I will be making a team with v0ltag3 & pinkacross utilizing tspikes, screens or both in conjunction with Tsareena, only because there are some doubters. Time to ruin the tier.

oh boy, i'm quaking in my boots. i'm so scared of the slow grass-type that needs multiple turns of rng-based setup and whose only source of damage is a multi-hit move without loaded dice

if you'd gone the "hey look at this neat set, here's how it's useful" route without going the "wow look at this it beats everything ever and needs banned" route, we collectively would've been like "hey that's pretty neat" and then maybe sometime in the future if it started getting popular or caused a major tour upset a discussion about banning it might naturally occur. but i suppose not everyone can be morkal

 

[SpritePony]

I will be making a team with v0ltag3 & pinkacross utilizing tspikes, screens or both in conjunction with Tsareena, only because there are some doubters. Time to ruin the tier.

Yo dawg, i herd u liek Defog.

 

[zReptar]

Yo dawg, i herd u liek Defog.

*Gholdengo has entered chat*

 

[zReptar]

I will be making a team with v0ltag3 & pinkacross utilizing tspikes, screens or both in conjunction with Tsareena, only because there are some doubters. Time to ruin the tier.

Do u mean this?

 

[Esca D. Sulphate]

I actually find this to be hilarious. Acupressure isn't even reliable, and if you get Taunted or Hazed once, it's all over.

That supposed 6-0? That isn't a 6-0. They lost a Pokemon to it once and then gave up. (But I can't say I blame them.)

Garg would actually dookie all over that if it was Tera Fairy. You click Salt Cure once and now Tsareena is taking more than it can heal. All the meanwhile, Garg just sort of laughs at it. Grimmsnarl just Prankster Taunts it, Grafaiai Prankster Taunts/Encores it and now you're stuck spamming it... There's a number of ways to deal with this. Red Card is especially effective, as all those turns you spent setting it up is now wasted.

Of course, then there is also Clod/Dirge/Bozo with Unaware that ignores all that nonsense and can start smacking you for damage.


Unaware ignores Evasion.

Devil's advocate but they did include Cloak as a possible item which would disqualify Garg from being an answer, and Grimmsnarl Taunt literally never works because of Queenly Majesty. Same with Grafaiai except Grafaiai isn't even viable in OU in the first place lmao. And Dirge is valid, but Clod can barely even touch this set once Taunted so it doesn't actually win at all, and Dozo is shaky at best for similar reasons. One of their replays literally shows Tsar solo'ing a team with both Clod and Bozo on it.

lmao. "Taunt Grimm is niche", "Red Card is very rare".

Look at this clown. lmfao.

Red Card is very rare, sometimes Amoonguss runs it but that's sort of it, unless you want to pretend Mimikyu is some metagame staple or something. Grimmsnarl also fell off fairly hard so it's not something you see all that often, on top of like, it not even working lol.

Neutral on whether Acupressure is something worth banning but let's not bring up literally untrue things as counterarguments shall we

 

[1LDK]

>B-BUT JUST U-TURN ON THE OBVIOUS GHOLDENGO SWITCH IN TO KEEP MOMENTUM
>Does only 6%
>Next mon enters and recieves rocks, spikes, t spikes, webs, emotional damage and a shadowball

Honestly, regardless of the discussion with acupressure, I do like collabs and promising projects, so I hope you 3 can succeed and have fun together

 

[SpritePony]

>B-BUT JUST U-TURN ON THE OBVIOUS GHOLDENGO SWITCH IN TO KEEP MOMENTUM
>Does only 6%
>Next mon enters and recieves rocks, spikes, t spikes, webs, emotional damage and a shadowball

Honestly, regardless of the discussion with acupressure, I do like collabs and promising projects, so I hope you 3 can succeed and have fun together

Next we'll see Joey upload a video going ACUPRESSURE TSAREENA IS BROKEN!!!

 

[VTMagno]

think acupressure is very obviously dumb and should just be grouped under evasion clause as it adds nothing meaningful to the tier besides rng bs but it isn't broken, especially on an awful mon like tsareena.

in regards to wake i kinda dislike the changes it made to the meta and teambuilding but the meta has adapted to it really nicely. don't mind the result especially since home is coming around pretty soon (also walled by sylveon. walking wake more like walking mid /j)

 

[Shaymin Sky]

Devil's advocate but they did include Cloak as a possible item which would disqualify Garg from being an answer, and Grimmsnarl Taunt literally never works because of Queenly Majesty. Same with Grafaiai except Grafaiai isn't even viable in OU in the first place lmao. And Dirge is valid, but Clod can barely even touch this set once Taunted so it doesn't actually win at all, and Dozo is shaky at best for similar reasons. One of their replays literally shows Tsar solo'ing a team with both Clod and Bozo on it.

Red Card is very rare, sometimes Amoonguss runs it but that's sort of it, unless you want to pretend Mimikyu is some metagame staple or something. Grimmsnarl also fell off fairly hard so it's not something you see all that often, on top of like, it not even working lol.

Neutral on whether Acupressure is something worth banning but let's not bring up literally untrue things as counterarguments shall we

wait i forgot u cant taunt cus of the ability lol idk why they brought that up