Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's not the mods, it is the voters who have to put thier vote in the thread. You can't expect all the +130 persons who got reqs to login as soon as the votation started.
the time to vote for or against the ban ended a few hours ago, the thread for the voting was there for around 2 weeks.
we are just waiting right now for the mods to count the votes and announce the results.
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
the voting is currently happening?
I thought that it was happening for the past 2 weeks.
any way I was talking about this thread https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...nd-3-sleepwalking.3717388/page-6#post-9547109
the comments have people saying that they are supporting or oppossing the ban.
That thread is not the vote itself. It is just the suspect discussion thread. The vote, like every other suspect vote, occurs at the end of the laddering period with everyone who qualified. It is ongoing.
 
I have got a question about sylveon:
how does tera blast react with pixelate when you go for tera normal?

does it get both a normal and fairy type stab on top of the 1.2 boost from pixelate?
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
Alright so with that out of the way, and with HOME probably on the horizon, let's ask something to start some conversation, I remember at the start of the gen somebody asking something like this

1. HO
2. Offense
3. BO
4. Balance
5. Stall

The 5 main play styles in general, how would you rank them right now from worst to best, and how have you feel the evolution of those playstyles

I wanna ask this again now that this era is likely coming to an end, and a lot has changed over the course of the months
 
I would be more surprised if it got banned after everyone saw WW lose to eveything on SPL.
This is really irrelevant. Win rate in small samples of any size tend to be.

walking wake wasn’t banned because many people believed it wasn’t broken, that simple
Based on how everyone was talking beforehand, it seemed like WW was heading for the Purple Realm. But now that the metagame has developed further and understands how linear this thing is, I guess they saw that it wasn't that big of a deal.
 

awyp

'Alexa play Ladyfingers by Herb Alpert'
is a Top Tutoris a Top Team Rateris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
RMT Leader
Not going to lie I’ve been talking to voters prior to voting and I knew it was going to be close, but damn it’s not even close. I’m not mad that it stays in OU it’s just any team that was made before a month ago is pretty invalid and needs to get revamped or deleted. Thanks Finch for posting the results so quickly.
 
This is really irrelevant. Win rate in small samples of any size tend to
Yes, but some people still was on doubt before SPL and seeing it losing on high level games even agains teams without much preparation for it influenced a bit.

But now that the metagame has developed further and understands how linear this thing is, I guess they saw that it wasn't that big of a deal.
This is my exact thoughts, the lack of good options on the movepool for WW is what makes it not as good as it looks, Volc and Valiant for example are wat scarier because you never know what coverage they carry, while WW is very predictable so it is way easier to play against it and its damage output isn't that crazy like Chi-yu, Pao or Vish to get away with it being predictable.
 
This is really irrelevant. Win rate in small samples of any size tend to be.

walking wake wasn’t banned because many people believed it wasn’t broken, that simple
While I do agree that win rates in small sample sizes mean very little, seeing players at the highest level not struggle that much vs Wake without taking drastic measures in teambuilding I feel did play a factor into the overall mentality going into the vote.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
tbh yeah, now that WW we have a water type that garga needs all its attention in handling, making it overall harder to put in the pressure it was doing before. So now it has to run tera water/fairy with max +spedef if it wants to not get instantly blown apart, and while a good check, now physical attackers have an easier time handling it and the walls It's supposed to prey upon, while not confortable with fighting in, can at least get something in because garga will get overwhelmed now

In my personal opinion and from what I have seen, the people who think WW is broken, think that garga is healthy and vice versa, this is why nobody was using the argument of "broken checks broken" when people didn't want to ban WW for Garga. It is an interesting phenomenon to say the least, this is the first time I see this

To me, I would have banned both, but that's not happening
 

Shaymin Sky

Unban me from Ubers UU : (
is a Pre-Contributor
ACCUPRESSURE NEEDS TO BE BANNED!


tsareena png.png

Tsareena @ Leftovers/Covert Cloak
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water/steel
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpD / 128 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Taunt
- Acupressure
- Synthesis


About the set
This sets main goal is setting up various boost with Acupressure, a move that doubles a random stat INCLUDING EVASION! Typically the game is over once you get an evasion boost since it is +2 evasion, not a +1. However if you happen to get a speed, defense, and special defense boost you typically still have a chance to sweep. The only useless boost are Accuracy and special attack but the odds of getting these useless boost are low as they are a 2/7 chance. Taunt prevents opposing setup sweepers, toxic users, taunt users, and recovery such as roost. Then we have synthesis for self sustain, and finally bullet seed for a general stab move. I specifically use bullet seed for its PP of 48, as opposed to power whip which can be easily stalled out by bulkier unaware Pokémon.

THREATS
It's literally just Hatterene + Dondozo, or Skeledirge (no tera) lol practically any other Pokémon can realistically lose to this given the correct boost (evasion lmfao). Dragons also pose quite a threat, Specs dragapult with draco meteor can be quite scary without the x2 special defense. Roaring Moon, Hydreigon, and Dragonite require quite good RNG to defeat as well but usually with a x2 in defense or special defense or an outright evasion boost can get the job done.

Defensive Utility
This Pokémon hard walls non-tera Breloom, and the general bulk Tsareena has of 72/98/98 is nothing to scoff at as it can avoid most 2 hit ko's from non super effective attacks. With the added typing advantage of tera water or steel depending on which chosen, the array of Pokémon you switch in on becomes far greater.

Matchups

Stall:
This set is unbeatable for stall, you can almost always lead Tsareena and start setting up acupressure's, while taunting Clodsire, Dondozo, and Corviknight from setting up or going for a toxic in Clodsires case. The only possible way stall can beat Tsareena is with Skeledirge, but currently stall cannot afford to fit Skeledirge due to meta constraints so this surprise MU is unlikely to occur.

Semi stall: The matchup is similarly favorable in comparison to stall, with the caveat of Skeledirge being more likely as well as Tera-Garganacl being a nuisance unless you are utilizing covert cloak Tsareena.

Balance: Matchups against balance can usually go either way, really its all about opportunism as I have never had a MU vs balance where Tsareena couldn't win unless there was a Roaring Moon or Hydreigon along with shit boost rng. There is high variance in the effectiveness of Acu Tsareena but I'd argue the odds of her having a shot at winning a match vs balance teams is around 60% which is problematic for the tier in my opinion given the luck involved. Although there is luck involved you are quite likely to get a boost that actually matters significantly, and you have a 1/7 chance of straight up winning (evasion) which is the same odds as a scald burn.

Bulky Offense: Identical to balance, but the offensive nature of this archetype typically gives me more MU scenarios where they don't have a Skeledirge or Dondozo + Hatterene to mess me up, and Roaring Moons are quite rare on this archetype.

Offense: This matchup is actually quite good, usually the setup spam on offense is not as great as hyper offense so it gives you breathing room to attempt to get acupressure's without the risk of dealing with Skeledirges, Garganacl's, Dondozo + Hatterene, and Hydreigon on raw offense is not nearly as common compare to balance or bulky offense. Id argue this or balance is the 3rd best archetype to face besides stall and semi stall (both of those being normally AUTO WINS)

Hyper Offense: bad lol, if you get evasion you probably can win given most HO teams don't have the usual Pokémon that give Tsareena trouble, the issue is just getting the positioning to Acupressure in the first place. If you manage to get a +2 speed boost however you are kind of in a really good spot, since bullet seed breaks sashes and taunt can be spammed which is quite useful against HO. It's not unlikely to win with Tsareena once you get an Acupressure but really the problem is getting it in, as well as weighing the odds of "is it worth it to try to get the rng setup vs such a volatile team".

plz ban this from tier its rng sweep mon with minimal counterplay besides Skeledirge which u can beat by forcing its tera xd the odds of a x2 good boost is literally 80% chance lol like cmon hows this allowed.

Replays of this in 1800's through setup or providing general defensive utility

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824412456-lng0o2ywn8z8z67q118gnkmgistzpmapw
Tsareena sweep 6-0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824420924
Tsareena sweep lategame with tera typing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824038753
Insane defensive utility of Tsareena winning me the game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824443926
I only lost this because I threw by not synthesis vs breloom when I could have lol idk it was 130 turns i had a brainfart i didnt even care anymore, but the entire game just revolved around Tsareena's pressure none of my other mons even got a kill LOL and I was switching Tsareena in on Hatterenes, Dondozo, and Breloom and getting boost pressuring shit I mean its insane that an entire game can revolve around 1 mon for 130 turns lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824431666
General defensive utility of Tsareena clutched me the DUB lowkey, this was close if this thing didn't live on 1 early on I was screwed lowkey.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798153510-s38bf4nuari8h5shavonydtt13rr9o6pw
Tsareena 6-0 stall from turn 1.

Conclusion
Overall this team where I literally just replaced scream tail with Tsareena so the teams not even specifically optimized for the set LOL, peaked low 1800's with like 6 games of play kekw, can definitely reach 1900's but I don't care enough I just want Acupressure gone before some kids actually make teams AROUND this shit and make ladder even more hell. If I can get 1800 with minimal effort and slapping the mon on a team, imagine someone who is actually trying lmao. TBH anything that can boost evasion should be banned (besides metronome) Finchinator


EDIT: I forgot to mention, kowtow cleave does not check accuracy, if you don't have defense boost a late game kingambit can be a bit scary but I've yet to lose to 1.
 
Last edited:
ACCUPRESSURE NEEDS TO BE BANNED!


View attachment 500818
Tsareena @ Leftovers/Covert Cloak
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water/steel
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpD / 128 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Taunt
- Acupressure
- Synthesis


About the set
This sets main goal is setting up various boost with Acupressure, a move that doubles a random stat INCLUDING EVASION! Typically the game is over once you get an evasion boost since it is +2 evasion, not a +1. However if you happen to get a speed, defense, and special defense boost you typically still have a chance to sweep. The only useless boost are Accuracy and special attack but the odds of getting these useless boost are low as they are a 2/7 chance. Taunt prevents opposing setup sweepers, toxic users, taunt users, and recovery such as roost. Then we have synthesis for self sustain, and finally bullet seed for a general stab move. I specifically use bullet seed for its PP of 48, as opposed to power whip which can be easily stalled out by bulkier unaware Pokémon.

THREATS
It's literally just Hatterene + Dondozo, or Skeledirge (no tera) lol practically any other Pokémon can realistically lose to this given the correct boost (evasion lmfao). Dragons also pose quite a threat, Specs dragapult with draco meteor can be quite scary without the x2 special defense. Roaring Moon, Hydreigon, and Dragonite require quite good RNG to defeat as well but usually with a x2 in defense or special defense or an outright evasion boost can get the job done.

Defensive Utility
This Pokémon hard walls non-tera Breloom, and the general bulk Tsareena has of 72/98/98 is nothing to scoff at as it can avoid most 2 hit ko's from non super effective attacks. With the added typing advantage of tera water or steel depending on which chosen, the array of Pokémon you switch in on becomes far greater.

Matchups

Stall:
This set is unbeatable for stall, you can almost always lead Tsareena and start setting up acupressure's, while taunting Clodsire, Dondozo, and Corviknight from setting up or going for a toxic in Clodsires case. The only possible way stall can beat Tsareena is with Skeledirge, but currently stall cannot afford to fit Skeledirge due to meta constraints so this surprise MU is unlikely to occur.

Semi stall: The matchup is similarly favorable in comparison to stall, with the caveat of Skeledirge being more likely as well as Tera-Garganacl being a nuisance unless you are utilizing covert cloak Tsareena.

Balance: Matchups against balance can usually go either way, really its all about opportunism as I have never had a MU vs balance where Tsareena couldn't win unless there was a Roaring Moon or Hydreigon along with shit boost rng. There is high variance in the effectiveness of Acu Tsareena but I'd argue the odds of her having a shot at winning a match vs balance teams is around 60% which is problematic for the tier in my opinion given the luck involved. Although there is luck involved you are quite likely to get a boost that actually matters significantly, and you have a 1/7 chance of straight up winning (evasion) which is the same odds as a scald burn.

Bulky Offense: Identical to balance, but the offensive nature of this archetype typically gives me more MU scenarios where they don't have a Skeledirge or Dondozo + Hatterene to mess me up, and Roaring Moons are quite rare on this archetype.

Offense: This matchup is actually quite good, usually the setup spam on offense is not as great as hyper offense so it gives you breathing room to attempt to get acupressure's without the risk of dealing with Skeledirges, Garganacl's, Dondozo + Hatterene, and Hydreigon on raw offense is not nearly as common compare to balance or bulky offense. Id argue this or balance is the 3rd best archetype to face besides stall and semi stall (both of those being normally AUTO WINS)

Hyper Offense: bad lol, if you get evasion you probably can win given most HO teams don't have the usual Pokémon that give Tsareena trouble, the issue is just getting the positioning to Acupressure in the first place. If you manage to get a +2 speed boost however you are kind of in a really good spot, since bullet seed breaks sashes and taunt can be spammed which is quite useful against HO. It's not unlikely to win with Tsareena once you get an Acupressure but really the problem is getting it in, as well as weighing the odds of "is it worth it to try to get the rng setup vs such a volatile team".

plz ban this from tier its rng sweep mon with minimal counterplay besides Skeledirge which u can beat by forcing its tera xd the odds of a x2 good boost is literally 80% chance lol like cmon hows this allowed.

Replays of this in 1800's through setup or providing general defensive utility

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824412456-lng0o2ywn8z8z67q118gnkmgistzpmapw
Tsareena sweep 6-0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824420924
Tsareena sweep lategame with tera typing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824038753
Insane defensive utility of Tsareena winning me the game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824443926
I only lost this because I threw by not synthesis vs breloom when I could have lol idk it was 130 turns i had a brainfart i didnt even care anymore, but the entire game just revolved around Tsareena's pressure none of my other mons even got a kill LOL and I was switching Tsareena in on Hatterenes, Dondozo, and Breloom and getting boost pressuring shit I mean its insane that an entire game can revolve around 1 mon for 130 turns lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824431666
General defensive utility of Tsareena clutched me the DUB lowkey, this was close if this thing didn't live on 1 early on I was screwed lowkey.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798153510-s38bf4nuari8h5shavonydtt13rr9o6pw
Tsareena 6-0 stall from turn 1.

Conclusion
Overall this team where I literally just replaced scream tail with Tsareena so the teams not even specifically optimized for the set LOL, peaked low 1800's with like 6 games of play kekw, can definitely reach 1900's but I don't care enough I just want Acupressure gone before some kids actually make teams AROUND this shit and make ladder even more hell. If I can get 1800 with minimal effort and slapping the mon on a team, imagine someone who is actually trying lmao. TBH anything that can boost evasion should be banned (besides metronome) Finchinator
Gambit gets +6 on this and sweeps.
 

Shaymin Sky

Unban me from Ubers UU : (
is a Pre-Contributor
Gambit gets +6 on this and sweeps.
You taunt the gambit ? lol and if you already have defense boost its even worse cus u taunt and keep going for acupressures anyways. You also tank the 2 hit ko on cleave unless its 4-5 fainted iirc or tera dark. Kingambit is not a consistent answer at all.
 
ACCUPRESSURE NEEDS TO BE BANNED!


View attachment 500818
Tsareena @ Leftovers/Covert Cloak
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water/steel
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpD / 128 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Taunt
- Acupressure
- Synthesis


About the set
This sets main goal is setting up various boost with Acupressure, a move that doubles a random stat INCLUDING EVASION! Typically the game is over once you get an evasion boost since it is +2 evasion, not a +1. However if you happen to get a speed, defense, and special defense boost you typically still have a chance to sweep. The only useless boost are Accuracy and special attack but the odds of getting these useless boost are low as they are a 2/7 chance. Taunt prevents opposing setup sweepers, toxic users, taunt users, and recovery such as roost. Then we have synthesis for self sustain, and finally bullet seed for a general stab move. I specifically use bullet seed for its PP of 48, as opposed to power whip which can be easily stalled out by bulkier unaware Pokémon.

THREATS
It's literally just Hatterene + Dondozo, or Skeledirge (no tera) lol practically any other Pokémon can realistically lose to this given the correct boost (evasion lmfao). Dragons also pose quite a threat, Specs dragapult with draco meteor can be quite scary without the x2 special defense. Roaring Moon, Hydreigon, and Dragonite require quite good RNG to defeat as well but usually with a x2 in defense or special defense or an outright evasion boost can get the job done.

Defensive Utility
This Pokémon hard walls non-tera Breloom, and the general bulk Tsareena has of 72/98/98 is nothing to scoff at as it can avoid most 2 hit ko's from non super effective attacks. With the added typing advantage of tera water or steel depending on which chosen, the array of Pokémon you switch in on becomes far greater.

Matchups

Stall:
This set is unbeatable for stall, you can almost always lead Tsareena and start setting up acupressure's, while taunting Clodsire, Dondozo, and Corviknight from setting up or going for a toxic in Clodsires case. The only possible way stall can beat Tsareena is with Skeledirge, but currently stall cannot afford to fit Skeledirge due to meta constraints so this surprise MU is unlikely to occur.

Semi stall: The matchup is similarly favorable in comparison to stall, with the caveat of Skeledirge being more likely as well as Tera-Garganacl being a nuisance unless you are utilizing covert cloak Tsareena.

Balance: Matchups against balance can usually go either way, really its all about opportunism as I have never had a MU vs balance where Tsareena couldn't win unless there was a Roaring Moon or Hydreigon along with shit boost rng. There is high variance in the effectiveness of Acu Tsareena but I'd argue the odds of her having a shot at winning a match vs balance teams is around 60% which is problematic for the tier in my opinion given the luck involved. Although there is luck involved you are quite likely to get a boost that actually matters significantly, and you have a 1/7 chance of straight up winning (evasion) which is the same odds as a scald burn.

Bulky Offense: Identical to balance, but the offensive nature of this archetype typically gives me more MU scenarios where they don't have a Skeledirge or Dondozo + Hatterene to mess me up, and Roaring Moons are quite rare on this archetype.

Offense: This matchup is actually quite good, usually the setup spam on offense is not as great as hyper offense so it gives you breathing room to attempt to get acupressure's without the risk of dealing with Skeledirges, Garganacl's, Dondozo + Hatterene, and Hydreigon on raw offense is not nearly as common compare to balance or bulky offense. Id argue this or balance is the 3rd best archetype to face besides stall and semi stall (both of those being normally AUTO WINS)

Hyper Offense: bad lol, if you get evasion you probably can win given most HO teams don't have the usual Pokémon that give Tsareena trouble, the issue is just getting the positioning to Acupressure in the first place. If you manage to get a +2 speed boost however you are kind of in a really good spot, since bullet seed breaks sashes and taunt can be spammed which is quite useful against HO. It's not unlikely to win with Tsareena once you get an Acupressure but really the problem is getting it in, as well as weighing the odds of "is it worth it to try to get the rng setup vs such a volatile team".

plz ban this from tier its rng sweep mon with minimal counterplay besides Skeledirge which u can beat by forcing its tera xd the odds of a x2 good boost is literally 80% chance lol like cmon hows this allowed.

Replays of this in 1800's through setup or providing general defensive utility

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824412456-lng0o2ywn8z8z67q118gnkmgistzpmapw
Tsareena sweep 6-0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824420924
Tsareena sweep lategame with tera typing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824038753
Insane defensive utility of Tsareena winning me the game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824443926
I only lost this because I threw by not synthesis vs breloom when I could have lol idk it was 130 turns i had a brainfart i didnt even care anymore, but the entire game just revolved around Tsareena's pressure none of my other mons even got a kill LOL and I was switching Tsareena in on Hatterenes, Dondozo, and Breloom and getting boost pressuring shit I mean its insane that an entire game can revolve around 1 mon for 130 turns lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824431666
General defensive utility of Tsareena clutched me the DUB lowkey, this was close if this thing didn't live on 1 early on I was screwed lowkey.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798153510-s38bf4nuari8h5shavonydtt13rr9o6pw
Tsareena 6-0 stall from turn 1.

Conclusion
Overall this team where I literally just replaced scream tail with Tsareena so the teams not even specifically optimized for the set LOL, peaked low 1800's with like 6 games of play kekw, can definitely reach 1900's but I don't care enough I just want Acupressure gone before some kids actually make teams AROUND this shit and make ladder even more hell. If I can get 1800 with minimal effort and slapping the mon on a team, imagine someone who is actually trying lmao. TBH anything that can boost evasion should be banned (besides metronome) Finchinator


EDIT: I forgot to mention, kowtow cleave does not check accuracy, if you don't have defense boost a late game kingambit can be a bit scary but I've yet to lose to 1.
To further an arguement. The fact that this isn’t even an optimized team for it, (something like tspikes+knock spam or screens for example) that can abuse this set and it still puts in work due to pure rng is just stupid. The best counterplay to this unless you have like skele is trying to stop it before it sets up but the issue with that is 1. Evasion and 2 Tera. These 2 factors let this set become even more dumb as it tilts the rng more and more to its favor.
 
ACCUPRESSURE NEEDS TO BE BANNED!


View attachment 500818
Tsareena @ Leftovers/Covert Cloak
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Tera Type: Water/steel
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 92 SpD / 128 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Taunt
- Acupressure
- Synthesis


About the set
This sets main goal is setting up various boost with Acupressure, a move that doubles a random stat INCLUDING EVASION! Typically the game is over once you get an evasion boost since it is +2 evasion, not a +1. However if you happen to get a speed, defense, and special defense boost you typically still have a chance to sweep. The only useless boost are Accuracy and special attack but the odds of getting these useless boost are low as they are a 2/7 chance. Taunt prevents opposing setup sweepers, toxic users, taunt users, and recovery such as roost. Then we have synthesis for self sustain, and finally bullet seed for a general stab move. I specifically use bullet seed for its PP of 48, as opposed to power whip which can be easily stalled out by bulkier unaware Pokémon.

THREATS
It's literally just Hatterene + Dondozo, or Skeledirge (no tera) lol practically any other Pokémon can realistically lose to this given the correct boost (evasion lmfao). Dragons also pose quite a threat, Specs dragapult with draco meteor can be quite scary without the x2 special defense. Roaring Moon, Hydreigon, and Dragonite require quite good RNG to defeat as well but usually with a x2 in defense or special defense or an outright evasion boost can get the job done.

Defensive Utility
This Pokémon hard walls non-tera Breloom, and the general bulk Tsareena has of 72/98/98 is nothing to scoff at as it can avoid most 2 hit ko's from non super effective attacks. With the added typing advantage of tera water or steel depending on which chosen, the array of Pokémon you switch in on becomes far greater.

Matchups

Stall:
This set is unbeatable for stall, you can almost always lead Tsareena and start setting up acupressure's, while taunting Clodsire, Dondozo, and Corviknight from setting up or going for a toxic in Clodsires case. The only possible way stall can beat Tsareena is with Skeledirge, but currently stall cannot afford to fit Skeledirge due to meta constraints so this surprise MU is unlikely to occur.

Semi stall: The matchup is similarly favorable in comparison to stall, with the caveat of Skeledirge being more likely as well as Tera-Garganacl being a nuisance unless you are utilizing covert cloak Tsareena.

Balance: Matchups against balance can usually go either way, really its all about opportunism as I have never had a MU vs balance where Tsareena couldn't win unless there was a Roaring Moon or Hydreigon along with shit boost rng. There is high variance in the effectiveness of Acu Tsareena but I'd argue the odds of her having a shot at winning a match vs balance teams is around 60% which is problematic for the tier in my opinion given the luck involved. Although there is luck involved you are quite likely to get a boost that actually matters significantly, and you have a 1/7 chance of straight up winning (evasion) which is the same odds as a scald burn.

Bulky Offense: Identical to balance, but the offensive nature of this archetype typically gives me more MU scenarios where they don't have a Skeledirge or Dondozo + Hatterene to mess me up, and Roaring Moons are quite rare on this archetype.

Offense: This matchup is actually quite good, usually the setup spam on offense is not as great as hyper offense so it gives you breathing room to attempt to get acupressure's without the risk of dealing with Skeledirges, Garganacl's, Dondozo + Hatterene, and Hydreigon on raw offense is not nearly as common compare to balance or bulky offense. Id argue this or balance is the 3rd best archetype to face besides stall and semi stall (both of those being normally AUTO WINS)

Hyper Offense: bad lol, if you get evasion you probably can win given most HO teams don't have the usual Pokémon that give Tsareena trouble, the issue is just getting the positioning to Acupressure in the first place. If you manage to get a +2 speed boost however you are kind of in a really good spot, since bullet seed breaks sashes and taunt can be spammed which is quite useful against HO. It's not unlikely to win with Tsareena once you get an Acupressure but really the problem is getting it in, as well as weighing the odds of "is it worth it to try to get the rng setup vs such a volatile team".

plz ban this from tier its rng sweep mon with minimal counterplay besides Skeledirge which u can beat by forcing its tera xd the odds of a x2 good boost is literally 80% chance lol like cmon hows this allowed.

Replays of this in 1800's through setup or providing general defensive utility

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824412456-lng0o2ywn8z8z67q118gnkmgistzpmapw
Tsareena sweep 6-0

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824420924
Tsareena sweep lategame with tera typing.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824038753
Insane defensive utility of Tsareena winning me the game

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824443926
I only lost this because I threw by not synthesis vs breloom when I could have lol idk it was 130 turns i had a brainfart i didnt even care anymore, but the entire game just revolved around Tsareena's pressure none of my other mons even got a kill LOL and I was switching Tsareena in on Hatterenes, Dondozo, and Breloom and getting boost pressuring shit I mean its insane that an entire game can revolve around 1 mon for 130 turns lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1824431666
General defensive utility of Tsareena clutched me the DUB lowkey, this was close if this thing didn't live on 1 early on I was screwed lowkey.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798153510-s38bf4nuari8h5shavonydtt13rr9o6pw
Tsareena 6-0 stall from turn 1.

Conclusion
Overall this team where I literally just replaced scream tail with Tsareena so the teams not even specifically optimized for the set LOL, peaked low 1800's with like 6 games of play kekw, can definitely reach 1900's but I don't care enough I just want Acupressure gone before some kids actually make teams AROUND this shit and make ladder even more hell. If I can get 1800 with minimal effort and slapping the mon on a team, imagine someone who is actually trying lmao. TBH anything that can boost evasion should be banned (besides metronome) Finchinator


EDIT: I forgot to mention, kowtow cleave does not check accuracy, if you don't have defense boost a late game kingambit can be a bit scary but I've yet to lose to 1.
I actually find this to be hilarious. Acupressure isn't even reliable, and if you get Taunted or Hazed once, it's all over.

That supposed 6-0? That isn't a 6-0. They lost a Pokemon to it once and then gave up. (But I can't say I blame them.)

Garg would actually dookie all over that if it was Tera Fairy. You click Salt Cure once and now Tsareena is taking more than it can heal. All the meanwhile, Garg just sort of laughs at it. Grimmsnarl just Prankster Taunts it, Grafaiai Prankster Taunts/Encores it and now you're stuck spamming it... There's a number of ways to deal with this. Red Card is especially effective, as all those turns you spent setting it up is now wasted.

Of course, then there is also Clod/Dirge/Bozo with Unaware that ignores all that nonsense and can start smacking you for damage.

To further an arguement. The fact that this isn’t even an optimized team for it, (something like tspikes+knock spam or screens for example) that can abuse this set and it still puts in work due to pure rng is just stupid. The best counterplay to this unless you have like skele is trying to stop it before it sets up but the issue with that is 1. Evasion and 2 Tera. These 2 factors let this set become even more dumb as it tilts the rng more and more to its favor.
Unaware ignores Evasion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 3)

Top