Announcement np: SV OU Suspect Process, Round 6 - The Killing Moon

[Professor Suicune]

Glad that so many people are, correctly, bringing up that the suspect mon in question has to be evaluated with tera legal, as that is the metagame we are playing, and that responses like “DNB bc yes it's broken but tera is actually the problem!" are being called out for being nonsensical and off-topic...

...wish we had this kind of energy during the kingambit suspect tho...sigh...

anyway ban BM

 

[DaemonChop]

All these pages and we didnt couldn't find splashable check for Blood Moon that's also very reliable. Cresselia seems to be the best answer that decently viable, as it can go into Calm Mind war thanks to decent bulk. Most of the old checks (Blissey, Sub Gliscor/Corv) all have counterplay through Body Press/Hyper Voice.

This mon has truly amazing potential to adapt to the meta.

I don't know man, sources are telling me known splashable threat Bronzong is the perfect counter...

 

[dragonbr]

No tera ban! What would be gen 9 without tera? Thats like saying removing Z moves from gen 7, dynamax from gen 8, megas from 6-7, like it feels like doing a disservice to the mons themselves that benefit from it. If they get banned, go use them with Tera in Ubers if you care that much. If they all get unbanned then they turn OU in HO hell.

Now for Bloodmoon:
Take into consideration that unless you have a Corv with heavy HP or sp. def investment, a Tera-Ghost Weezing (G or base), or a max HP max Sp Def Unaware Clefable, then the Big Bear WILL be claiming KO’s. There are 2 big factors that can completely crush whether not you can counter it, and all are very viable in there own right because of the inherent strengths of the mon.

1. Item - The big 3 are leftys for setup, Silk Scarf for breaking, and Assault Vest for survivability. These add a layer of volatility!
2. Great Moves - Blood Moon, EP, CM, Moonlight, Vacuum Wave. 5 moves, but change one and you have a completely different set.
Lack of counters to the variance albeit minimal, is noticeable due to the overwhelming base power of the mon. It can brute force through checks easily with slight variance in set

 

[dragonbr]

All these pages and we didnt couldn't find splashable check for Blood Moon that's also very reliable. Cresselia seems to be the best answer that decently viable, as it can go into Calm Mind war thanks to decent bulk. Most of the old checks (Blissey, Sub Gliscor/Corv) all have counterplay through Body Press/Hyper Voice.

This mon has truly amazing potential to adapt to the meta.

If u need one rn, i reccomend this clef set:
Clefable @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 232 HP / 124 SpA / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
NGL i do find it very reliable. You tank a bloodmoon, CM, moonlight on the EP, the next blood moon tickles, you knock the leftys, and then cm moonlight and win.

And dont use zong… zong will turn into dead weight in any non bloodmoon matchup its not worth it. And just wait till they start using tera blast fire over EP for coverage…

 

[Pando067]

No tera ban! What would be gen 9 without tera? Thats like saying removing Z moves from gen 7, dynamax from gen 8, megas from 6-7, like it feels like doing a disservice to the mons themselves that benefit from it. If they get banned, go use them with Tera in Ubers if you care that much. If they all get unbanned then they turn OU in HO hell.

Now for Bloodmoon:
Take into consideration that unless you have a Corv with heavy HP or sp. def investment, a Tera-Ghost Weezing (G or base), or a max HP max Sp Def Unaware Clefable, then the Big Bear WILL be claiming KO’s. There are 2 big factors that can completely crush whether not you can counter it, and all are very viable in there own right because of the inherent strengths of the mon.

1. Item - The big 3 are leftys for setup, Silk Scarf for breaking, and Assault Vest for survivability. These add a layer of volatility!
2. Great Moves - Blood Moon, EP, CM, Moonlight, Vacuum Wave. 5 moves, but change one and you have a completely different set.
Lack of counters to the variance albeit minimal, is noticeable due to the overwhelming base power of the mon. It can brute force through checks easily with slight variance in set

I hate to break it to you, but ghost weezing doesn't counter bm because of mind's eye, which is just keen eye + scrappy, allowing it to hit ghost types with normal and fighting moves. Also, TWO things, dynamax and some megas were banned from OU in gens 6-8 and also corv is always heavily invested in hp but spdef is uncommon unless u want to counter bm.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

If u need one rn, i reccomend this clef set:
Clefable @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 232 HP / 124 SpA / 152 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Knock Off
- Moonlight
- Moonblast
NGL i do find it very reliable. You tank a bloodmoon, CM, moonlight on the EP, the next blood moon tickles, you knock the leftys, and then cm moonlight and win.

And dont use zong… zong will turn into dead weight in any non bloodmoon matchup its not worth it. And just wait till they start using tera blast fire over EP for coverage…

Thing is, Clefable can't do much if Ursaluna is running offensive sets, which is not uncommon, especially if mons like Clef becomes more popular as checks.

252+ SpA Silk Scarf Tera Normal Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 232 HP / 152+ SpD Clefable: 350-412 (89.9 - 105.9%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

This set abandons being a dedicated tank and trades poison immunity for immediate wallbreaking power. Clef can't avoid being 2hko from Hyper Voice/Earth Power next turn

252+ SpA Silk Scarf Tera Normal Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Hyper Voice vs. 232 HP / 152+ SpD Clefable: 226-266 (58 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While this may not be as good as the bulky tera poison set (which resists Clef's Clef's Moonblast anyway), offensive Ursaluna still has a lot of diversity and more than capable of adapting to meta

If you're willing to use life orb over silk scarf, Clef casually gets OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Tera Normal Ursaluna-Bloodmoon Blood Moon vs. 232 HP / 152+ SpD Clefable: 380-447 (97.6 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Ursaluna has a lot of diverse sets, and is a very reactive mon that can adapt to the meta as necessary.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I hate to break it to you, but ghost weezing doesn't counter bm because of mind's eye, which is just keen eye + scrappy, allowing it to hit ghost types with normal and fighting moves. Also, TWO things, dynamax and some megas were banned from OU in gens 6-8 and also corv is always heavily invested in hp but spdef is uncommon unless u want to counter bm.

neutralizing gas makes mind's eye not work. you're assuming it's levitate but neutralizing gas is the way better ability for both weezings right now. in fact, if you're air balloon tera ghost, you hard wall every non-niche bloodmoon set. and of course, the fact that this is the length we have to go to is just more proof that the bear has no place in our meta

 

[Joseph Gomes]

neutralizing gas makes mind's eye not work. you're assuming it's levitate but neutralizing gas is the way better ability for both weezings right now. in fact, if you're air balloon tera ghost, you hard wall every non-niche bloodmoon set. and of course, the fact that this is the length we have to go to is just more proof that the bear has no place in our meta

You're right if Ursaluna doesn't have Mooblast. Neutralizing Gas Tera Ghost G-Weezing with Air Balloon is indeed the most reliable check that immediately forces Ursaluna out. And Play Rough isn't very common since BM prefers running a combination of Calm Mind/Blood Moon/Moonlight/Hyper Voice/Vacuum Wave/Earth Power/Body Press.

Although burning tera on G-Weezing just to handle Luna is quite desperate

 

[Whaloob]

It was said time and again that keeping tera would result in a wave of bans to keep the tier together. Tera stays. A wave of bans ensues. So many a shocked Pikachu.

That’s not necessarily a bad thing if the resulting tier is healthier and/or more enjoyable than the tier that would result from a tera ban along with keeping the mons in question…

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

You're right if Ursaluna doesn't have Play Rough. Neutralizing Gas Tera Ghost G-Weezing with Air Balloon is indeed the most reliable check that immediately forces Ursaluna out. And Play Rough isn't very common since BM prefers running a combination of Calm Mind/Blood Moon/Moonlight/Hyper Voice/Vacuum Wave/Earth Power/Body Press.

Although burning tera on G-Weezing just to handle Luna is quite desperate

it doesn't even get play rough, you're thinking of moonblast and nobody runs that. like, literally nobody. outside of the moves you listed, the only variation i've seen on ursaluna is fire tera blast and i only saw that once

 

[sims796]

That’s not necessarily a bad thing if the resulting tier is healthier and/or more enjoyable than the tier that would result from a tera ban along with keeping the mons in question…

It's the surprised Pikachu reactions that gets to me.

dynamax from gen 8

Didn't they tho?

 

[bludgeoning angel]

That’s not necessarily a bad thing if the resulting tier is healthier and/or more enjoyable than the tier that would result from a tera ban along with keeping the mons in question…

we'd have a tier where the best tera abuser is furret tidy up tera normal double edge or tera blast ground frosmoth, if you keep banning good tera abusers this nightmare won't end and another tera abuser will take <insert broken mon idk bloodmoon> place
however this is not a tera discussion, so let's stick to what we have: tera meta + broken ursaluna
and even then, Gholdengo + hazards or simply ogerpon score more wins and both are nearly impossible to reliably wall
furthrermore, blissey is a meme check as it can get crit very often unlike the mighty bronzong or the mighty copycat blob

 

[kos parasite]

Just thought I would chime in, but I'm sure this sentiment has been posted 100 times across the 8 pages of this thread already.
Its so hilarious to me that you can just freaking click blood moon or cm brainlessly and sometimes that's it. I used a fairly defensive BM set during my suspect run and I would just see super-effective hits bounce off while I managed to trade for 2 more mons sometimes. Its utterly hilarious. I'm all for letting semi broken but fun things stay (tera should never be altered), but this thing is ridiculous.
I was using HO with a dedicated lead but still sometimes ended up just lead sweeping with it. Also a lot of forfeits when their sneasler was exposed for doing sub 80% with CC and dying.

Overall I think the current meta is pretty fun except for how prevalent stall is. Bring back zama crowned and let darkrai come out to play, I say.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

furthrermore, blissey is a meme check as it can get crit very often unlike the mighty bronzong or the mighty copycat blob

yeah, i've noticed that bloodmoon fails the blissey test: if a dedicated special attacker with no physical/defense-targeting moves is capable of running a viable set that can 1v1 blissey and is generally problematic otherwise, it's broken. just look at the evidence:

• skymin (flinching and seed flare spdef drops)
• darkrai (matchup can be shaky but hypnosis can let darkrai set up enough to win)
• gen 4-5 manaphy, bdsp manaphy, and possibly current manaphy (tail glow + hydration rest)
• lando-i (calm mind + focus blast)
• naganadel (nasty plot + toxic immunity)
• magearna (calm mind + fleur cannon)
• spectrier (substitute + nasty plot + dark pulse)
• iron bundle (taunt/encore)
• chi-yu (hits really, really fucking hard)
• espathra (stored power)
• current gen volcarona (quiver dance + morning sun, giga drain also helps)
• ursaluna-bloodmoon (calm mind + blood moon + moonlight/tera ghost. has a very shaky matchup against cm blissey but a crit beats even that)

(importantly, this doesn't work both ways—plenty of ubers can't break blissey, but that doesn't make them not broken)

Overall I think the current meta is pretty fun except for how prevalent stall is. Bring back zama crowned and let darkrai come out to play, I say.

my guy what meta are you even playing because it ain't this one. stall only just got back on its feet and it's still struggling against a lot of the insane breakers that we have. and the last thing we need is more ubers, the tier's already full of them

 

[kos parasite]

my guy what meta are you even playing because it ain't this one. stall only just got back on its feet and it's still struggling against a lot of the insane breakers that we have. and the last thing we need is more ubers, the tier's already full of them

Haha just a little light-hearted joke on that last part. I just hate stall and I wish it had stayed dead

 

[sims796]

Haha just a little light-hearted joke on that last part. I just hate stall and I wish it had stayed dead

I dunno what DaddyBuzzwole is talking about. Every other match is stall.

Wait, stall playstyle is when you take over 3 minutes per turn to make a move, making a match last 20 minutes on turn 10? Where you take so long your time is reduced to 30 sec per move?

Cause if that's stall, I've been doing nothing but.

I was trying to make a joke but Ive made myself sad.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

it doesn't even get play rough, you're thinking of moonblast and nobody runs that. like, literally nobody. outside of the moves you listed, the only variation i've seen on ursaluna is fire tera blast and i only saw that once

Right, I meant Moonblast.

 

[Pando067]

I just got a whiff of brand new bm luna tech. INTRODUCING ROAR BM!!!! So I saw this in a replay on discord and it’s insane, bm with grassy seed, cm, hyper voice, roar, and prob moonlight is straight up insane bc it beats gliscor and cm blissey. BAN IT NOW!!!!

 

[sims796]

I just got a whiff of brand new bm luna tech. INTRODUCING ROAR BM!!!! So I saw this in a replay on discord and it’s insane, bm with grassy seed, cm, hyper voice, roar, and prob moonlight is straight up insane bc it beats gliscor and cm blissey. BAN IT NOW!!!!

Lol you don't even need Blood Moon this morn is insane it only grows in power.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I just got a whiff of brand new bm luna tech. INTRODUCING ROAR BM!!!! So I saw this in a replay on discord and it’s insane, bm with grassy seed, cm, hyper voice, roar, and prob moonlight is straight up insane bc it beats gliscor and cm blissey. BAN IT NOW!!!!

Like I said above, this mon is extremely reactive and adapts to its checks very well. That's a heat set tho ngl

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I just got a whiff of brand new bm luna tech. INTRODUCING ROAR BM!!!! So I saw this in a replay on discord and it’s insane, bm with grassy seed, cm, hyper voice, roar, and prob moonlight is straight up insane bc it beats gliscor and cm blissey. BAN IT NOW!!!!

i'm not exactly certain why we're bothering to find new tech for a mon that's going to be banned in a matter of hours but that does sound pretty heat. hopefully it works in ubers

 

[sims796]

i'm not exactly certain why we're bothering to find new tech for a mon that's going to be banned in a matter of hours but that does sound pretty heat. hopefully it works in ubers

If Kingambit is any indication we need every single bit of evidence we can find to convince people.

 

[Finchinator]

Vote is up: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-suspect-process-round-6-voting.3729173/#post-9812028

thanks to everyone for discussing!

 

[Ruft]

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon is now banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ou-suspect-process-round-6-voting.3729173/post-9812218