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np: LC - Smells Like Teen Spirits
- Thread starter v
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Eviolite chinchou is popular abd can tank a hit since it resists everything; scarfchou outspeeds and ohkoes.
What can it actually set up on that doesn't cripple it? I'd rather go with the consistency of eviolite tbh.
For what it's worth, hp ground covers tenta and chinchou
I'll agree with this. He's a suspect, and may very well be broken. I just want to see if he is still broken in a more defensive metagame (assuming that tite and missy are banned and that's what comes after their bans).
You don't vote based on what you had problems with, you vote based on what you think is broken. I had no problems with Murkrow and yet I still found it broken because I had used it myself and found that it destroyed most people. I just happened to have one of the few ways of stopping it and found that my opponents were not using it to the fullest potential. Similarly, I had a shit load of problems with Snover but I didn't nominate it because I didn't think it was broken - it was only me with those problems.
If you carry Slowpoke and you HAPPENED to only go against the specific Meditite that doesn't have ThunderPunch then that doesn't mean Meditite isn't broken.
thoughts on acrobling on other mons than those mentioned? it could be a slightly wealer version of brave bird for doduo/taillow/rufflet (who actually doesn't get bb anyways...). for taillow it means it isn't on a timer. losing facade obviously sucks. for the other mons though it could be cool.
People use Eviolite Chinchou? dafuck? Also, nah brah, Timid Clamperl hits 26 speed at +2 while Timid ScarfChou only hits 25. HP Grass beats it, but it usually doesn't need it since Surf does like 85%+.
Its also not as hard to set up as you might think. It sets up on Gligar that haven't SD'd, Thunder Wave-less Slowpoke, Chinchou locked into a Water- move or HP Fire... and those are pretty common, no? I mean its not the easiest thing to set up, but its not as hard as you might think.
Timid Clamperl is pretty ridiculous. I know people say "but it's so frail!" but with a DeepSeaTooth after a Shell Smash, it reaches a disgusting 68 SAtk. I'm not going to run calcs right now, but something like Shell Smash / Surf / Ice Beam / HP Grass murders shit. I highly doubt anything can stand up to it. And yeah, sure, Croagunk and Timburr kill it, but the same can be said about Scraggy and we all know that Scraggy is capable of rampaging through LC.
In short, DeepSeaTooth Shell Smash Clamerl > Anything without neutral priority attacks
In short, DeepSeaTooth Shell Smash Clamerl > Anything without neutral priority attacks
Yeah eviolite chinchou is a cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything. you should play our meta more. it basically switches into shit with bulk and resists and hits hard and is generally a bitch to kill with volt switch along with scald to mess up grounds. at 25 hp it can live an uninvested gligar eq even.
i invented subchou
js
because every post i make tries to promote discussion, top 3 physical offensive scarfers, and if you feel like it throw in some underrated dudes too. imo,
1 - Axew - dragon typing is fucking boss offensively and defensively. base 120 stab with perfect accuracy: yes please. with rivalry it effectively has 22 attack and 24 speed, again with that stab outrage.
2 - Darumaka - similar boat, it rapes face with huge attack, base 120 stab, and an ability that boosts power to insane levels. only is rated lower than #1 because 80% accuracy flare blitz sucks.
3 - Mienfoo - Hjk wrecks. Uturn + regen lets it stay healthy all game. It doesn't die and hits hard, what else could you want?
underrated: Cranidos - this guy is strong and fast. mold breaker lets it hit bronzor with eq and stone edge wrecks nearly everything. should be more common. cannot switch in but once in rapes
js
because every post i make tries to promote discussion, top 3 physical offensive scarfers, and if you feel like it throw in some underrated dudes too. imo,
1 - Axew - dragon typing is fucking boss offensively and defensively. base 120 stab with perfect accuracy: yes please. with rivalry it effectively has 22 attack and 24 speed, again with that stab outrage.
2 - Darumaka - similar boat, it rapes face with huge attack, base 120 stab, and an ability that boosts power to insane levels. only is rated lower than #1 because 80% accuracy flare blitz sucks.
3 - Mienfoo - Hjk wrecks. Uturn + regen lets it stay healthy all game. It doesn't die and hits hard, what else could you want?
underrated: Cranidos - this guy is strong and fast. mold breaker lets it hit bronzor with eq and stone edge wrecks nearly everything. should be more common. cannot switch in but once in rapes
Mienfoo is nice, and is great as a vanha counter, use sub in the protect (for fake out) and OHKO (just make sure he doesn't protect again)
The bad thing about scarfed poke is that Vanha still outspeeds after two speed boost (protect on the switch in (fail) and protect again)and most of them are not hard enough to survive the Hydro Pump/Crunch, croak is almost always a full counter if it switches in (just beware HP fire that some vanha's have because of ferro), subMeowth is an interesting counter as well because of the same as Mienfoo
The bad thing about scarfed poke is that Vanha still outspeeds after two speed boost (protect on the switch in (fail) and protect again)and most of them are not hard enough to survive the Hydro Pump/Crunch, croak is almost always a full counter if it switches in (just beware HP fire that some vanha's have because of ferro), subMeowth is an interesting counter as well because of the same as Mienfoo
So who are you guys thinking of nominating/voting for? The way I see it, there's really only five suspect pokemon: Misdreavus, Meditite, Scraggy, Gligar, and Carvanha.
Gligar @ Flight Gem / Oran Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute
*pair with Hippopotas
Gligar's new Acrobatics set, when paired with Substitute Sand Veil, just pushes it over the edge tbh, for god's sake it OHKOs Slowpoke with a neutral physical attack (after swords with gem + SR or Adamant). It can even take an Ice Shard from most Snover, while has a roughly one in five chance of not even being hit at all while it can ohko nearly everything in the tier after one Swords Dance, and it still has the second highest base speed in LC.
Besides obscure things like Bronzor or Balloon Magnemite (lol), only checks exist for this Gligar, and all of whom still have a 1/5 chance of failing to even stop Gligar. It has two immunities that it can possibly switch into (although Ground-Type moves aren't that common in LC), while the only other auto-weather changer Snover, can easily be relinquished of its hail by capturing and destroying scarf versions with Wynaut and such. Faster Pokemon, like Elekid and Scarf Misdreavus, can just as easily be countered and destroyed by Pokemon like Lileep (who also benefits from sandstorm's SpDef boost) as their attacks do piddle to it.
Meditite and Misdreavus are self explanatory, go look through the past nom/suspect thread if you want the reasons.
Gligar @ Flight Gem / Oran Berry
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Substitute
*pair with Hippopotas
Gligar's new Acrobatics set, when paired with Substitute Sand Veil, just pushes it over the edge tbh, for god's sake it OHKOs Slowpoke with a neutral physical attack (after swords with gem + SR or Adamant). It can even take an Ice Shard from most Snover, while has a roughly one in five chance of not even being hit at all while it can ohko nearly everything in the tier after one Swords Dance, and it still has the second highest base speed in LC.
Besides obscure things like Bronzor or Balloon Magnemite (lol), only checks exist for this Gligar, and all of whom still have a 1/5 chance of failing to even stop Gligar. It has two immunities that it can possibly switch into (although Ground-Type moves aren't that common in LC), while the only other auto-weather changer Snover, can easily be relinquished of its hail by capturing and destroying scarf versions with Wynaut and such. Faster Pokemon, like Elekid and Scarf Misdreavus, can just as easily be countered and destroyed by Pokemon like Lileep (who also benefits from sandstorm's SpDef boost) as their attacks do piddle to it.
Meditite and Misdreavus are self explanatory, go look through the past nom/suspect thread if you want the reasons.
This round Gligar is asking for a unanimous ban, has such versatile sets that it can run especially how it's similar to Garchomp under sand it isn't fair and it just depends if you miss or not to prove losing a battle. To counter you'll have to get rid of the sub if it's still there and hopfully get Snover or Chinchou to revenge kill it. So I definitely agree with you to ban Gligar this round it's not that fair.
I still think that any gligar set without eviolite is just asking to get destroyed by most ice attacks. It does have a wide variety of sets it can run, but so did 4th gen tyranitar. And really, do that many people run sand?
Anyway, we're a week away from voting deadline. So far I think we can say missy, vanha, tite, and maybe gligar (?) are suspects. Any other thoughts on the meta? Are steels viable again?
I kind of hate discussing gligar at this point beacause of so many other suspects and because of the huge potential impact (gligar had more usage than either of all other flying or ground types last round, and potentially both). I am not against banning it, but, similar to eviolite's legality I would rather get rid of a few suspects (the rest of al's list actually) since atm it isn't broken under offensive or support characteristics and has only an ok case for defensive characteristic in my opinion. I would like to see gligar in a metagame where running timburr, croagunk, or mienfoo on every team is not a requirement, so it doesn't have a free switch into every single team and therefore can't gligar against literally every good team (to gligar is to do any of the scary shit it can do, not limited to swords dancing, spreading toxic, or general walling/killing shit). It is an amazing mon getting a boost from the metagame that it's in imo.
As of now I really enjoy AcroGlig's "anti-metagame" appeal, as I have not seen a great deal of Pokemon seeking to take advantage of it being used by many others besides myself. People generally rely on their preexisting Glig counter, meaning the lack of Eviolite s not a huge deal, as all the preexisting counters were built to take out even Evio Glig. I, for one, have been using Drilbur with HP Ice to deal with opposing Gligars, and I really enjoy being able to remove one of its most common counters in one fell swoop. Acroglig is still really good, but I expect that when people catch on, there will be a lot more HP Ice being seen on your Digletts and your Mienfoos.
Been using that Gligar set all day on the ladder, nets some ridiculous (and easy!) wins. I'm actually very new to the Little Cup metagame (been playing for about a week) and managed to get in the top 10 of the ladder by exploiting it. That feels a bit too powerful.
Crux
Banned deucer.
OK. This post needs to be made, as this is getting absolutely ridiculous. I have not had adequate time to ladder, but I have played many matches, and am familiar with all of the threats about which people in this thread are complaining about. I am prefacing with this because certain people believe that my “lack of experience” somehow makes my arguments invalid.
When replying to this post, reply to the post as a whole. If you only respond to certain parts, then you accept the rest of it as true.
To being with, I am going to say that I dont think that any Pokemon is broken. I think Carvahna may be borderline, but in my opinion nothing is currently broken. That is my opinion, it probably wont change. This post will more address the problem with the Little Cup suspect testers than the Pokemon themselves, although I will probably touch on them. It may seem slightly hypocritical for me to make this post, as I am not a suspect test voter due to time constraints that I unfortunately have due to starting at a new school, and having to study very hard in order to keep my scholarship. However, I believe that you need someone to say this, as the community as a whole needs to wake up to itself.
To begin with, I find the attitude that this community as a whole, or at least the majority of people who are posting here, to be deplorable. To be entirely honest, it has been slowly shifting in this direction for a while, and I should have posted earlier, but I didn’t really want to. The Little Cup community is ridiculously ban-happy, and this is a very bad thing. The fact is, none of the Pokemon that have been suggested are remotely close to broken, with the possible exception of Carvahna. The fact is, most of you are simply following the crowd and refusing to come up with ways to beat threats. All of the Pokemon that are being touted as broken are easily checked. In Little Cup, there are no counters in my opinion, and if there are, they are generally less effective in the long term than the corresponding checks. For example, Scraggy is checked by Meditite but countered by Ducklett. Which is more effective?
This ban-happy attitude will be extremely detrimental in the long term, as at the moment we are pretty much banning every Pokemon that is even remotely good. The Vulpix ban was a farce. In fact the only legitimate ban we have had was the Moody ban. Why you insist on banning everything is beyond me. AcroGligar was a very good step towards what I envision Little Cup to be like. Our smaller player base allows new sets to be effective and to catch on. It allows for the creation of odd sets due to the nature of play at Level 5. AcroGligar came to be because someone needed a Meditite / Scraggy Counter. This adaptation is what Little Cup needs to thrive, not this mindless banning of every threat that you have failed to adapt to. The team should adapt to the metagame, we should not force the metagame to adapt to the team.
We need to stop focusing on counters and switch our attention to checks.
Meditite, Gligar, Scraggy and Misdreavus are all excellent Pokemon. I don’t think there is any denying of this. But there are strategies that can be fit onto any team that beat every single one of them. The fact that you will be forced to sacrifice a Pokemon to kill one of them is irrelevant, you have to do that for many threats, this is Little Cup after all. It has always been a cycle of fast paced revenge kills, with or without Eviolite. Personally, I run several Pokemon with Knock Off to beat these threats. Without Eviolite, Pokemon like Mantyke and whatnot can come in and revenge kill them easily, and proceed to sweep.
Carvahna is also easily checked, with the likes of Croagunk, Staryu and Dokkora. To be honest, Speed Boost is kind of ridiculous, but nevertheless it can still be played around.
Generation Five brought with it the advent of Team Preview. A good player should be able to identify threats like Vahna and Tite right off the bat and play to that end, ensuring that he or she keeps their checks alive and healthy. It is not like you have no idea what your opponent has anymore.
It is NOT the Pokemon that are making this metagame stale, it is the lack of innovation on your part. It is the lack of effort to find or try something new. It is this ridiculous “OMFG IT FAINTED ONE OF MY POKEMON BAN IT SDOFGDJASFIFHGDFGI!” attitude that is making Little Cup stale, not the Pokemon, which are often outclassed by others. In my team I use Gligar, however that is the only “suspect” I use. My team is currently undefeated. I do not say this to brag, but to point out that innovation is incredibly effective.
Be innovative. Banning is not a solution to a problem. It is more a solution looking for a problem. The only problem with the Little Cup metagame at the moment is this ban-happy attitude and the lack of innovation. There are answers to every threat in the Little Cup metagame available. Just look for them instead of banning everything. Sooner or later the Little Cup ban list is going to be larger than the allowed list.
An example of this is the current "lets ban Gligar" attitude. AcroGligar developed as a response to Meditite and co. which is a very good thing. Kudos to whoever invented it, this is what Little Cup should be about. Just because it beats many of the Pokemon that you find to be broken (and other stuff) doesnt make it broken. AcroGligar, whilst a good set, is easily revenged, and the lack of eviolite is a detriment to it. The attitude that this should be banned is, in my opinion, even more ridiculous than the lets ban everything else attitude.
I am sorry if this post came across as harsh. I am sorry if you are offended. But this post needed to be made, or Little Cup will continue to slide downhill.
tl;dr, go back and read it.
This post is admittedly long, but please read all of it before responding. If I think it is obvious you have not read the whole post, I won't respond.
When replying to this post, reply to the post as a whole. If you only respond to certain parts, then you accept the rest of it as true.
To being with, I am going to say that I dont think that any Pokemon is broken. I think Carvahna may be borderline, but in my opinion nothing is currently broken. That is my opinion, it probably wont change. This post will more address the problem with the Little Cup suspect testers than the Pokemon themselves, although I will probably touch on them. It may seem slightly hypocritical for me to make this post, as I am not a suspect test voter due to time constraints that I unfortunately have due to starting at a new school, and having to study very hard in order to keep my scholarship. However, I believe that you need someone to say this, as the community as a whole needs to wake up to itself.
To begin with, I find the attitude that this community as a whole, or at least the majority of people who are posting here, to be deplorable. To be entirely honest, it has been slowly shifting in this direction for a while, and I should have posted earlier, but I didn’t really want to. The Little Cup community is ridiculously ban-happy, and this is a very bad thing. The fact is, none of the Pokemon that have been suggested are remotely close to broken, with the possible exception of Carvahna. The fact is, most of you are simply following the crowd and refusing to come up with ways to beat threats. All of the Pokemon that are being touted as broken are easily checked. In Little Cup, there are no counters in my opinion, and if there are, they are generally less effective in the long term than the corresponding checks. For example, Scraggy is checked by Meditite but countered by Ducklett. Which is more effective?
This ban-happy attitude will be extremely detrimental in the long term, as at the moment we are pretty much banning every Pokemon that is even remotely good. The Vulpix ban was a farce. In fact the only legitimate ban we have had was the Moody ban. Why you insist on banning everything is beyond me. AcroGligar was a very good step towards what I envision Little Cup to be like. Our smaller player base allows new sets to be effective and to catch on. It allows for the creation of odd sets due to the nature of play at Level 5. AcroGligar came to be because someone needed a Meditite / Scraggy Counter. This adaptation is what Little Cup needs to thrive, not this mindless banning of every threat that you have failed to adapt to. The team should adapt to the metagame, we should not force the metagame to adapt to the team.
We need to stop focusing on counters and switch our attention to checks.
Meditite, Gligar, Scraggy and Misdreavus are all excellent Pokemon. I don’t think there is any denying of this. But there are strategies that can be fit onto any team that beat every single one of them. The fact that you will be forced to sacrifice a Pokemon to kill one of them is irrelevant, you have to do that for many threats, this is Little Cup after all. It has always been a cycle of fast paced revenge kills, with or without Eviolite. Personally, I run several Pokemon with Knock Off to beat these threats. Without Eviolite, Pokemon like Mantyke and whatnot can come in and revenge kill them easily, and proceed to sweep.
Carvahna is also easily checked, with the likes of Croagunk, Staryu and Dokkora. To be honest, Speed Boost is kind of ridiculous, but nevertheless it can still be played around.
Generation Five brought with it the advent of Team Preview. A good player should be able to identify threats like Vahna and Tite right off the bat and play to that end, ensuring that he or she keeps their checks alive and healthy. It is not like you have no idea what your opponent has anymore.
It is NOT the Pokemon that are making this metagame stale, it is the lack of innovation on your part. It is the lack of effort to find or try something new. It is this ridiculous “OMFG IT FAINTED ONE OF MY POKEMON BAN IT SDOFGDJASFIFHGDFGI!” attitude that is making Little Cup stale, not the Pokemon, which are often outclassed by others. In my team I use Gligar, however that is the only “suspect” I use. My team is currently undefeated. I do not say this to brag, but to point out that innovation is incredibly effective.
Be innovative. Banning is not a solution to a problem. It is more a solution looking for a problem. The only problem with the Little Cup metagame at the moment is this ban-happy attitude and the lack of innovation. There are answers to every threat in the Little Cup metagame available. Just look for them instead of banning everything. Sooner or later the Little Cup ban list is going to be larger than the allowed list.
An example of this is the current "lets ban Gligar" attitude. AcroGligar developed as a response to Meditite and co. which is a very good thing. Kudos to whoever invented it, this is what Little Cup should be about. Just because it beats many of the Pokemon that you find to be broken (and other stuff) doesnt make it broken. AcroGligar, whilst a good set, is easily revenged, and the lack of eviolite is a detriment to it. The attitude that this should be banned is, in my opinion, even more ridiculous than the lets ban everything else attitude.
I am sorry if this post came across as harsh. I am sorry if you are offended. But this post needed to be made, or Little Cup will continue to slide downhill.
tl;dr, go back and read it.
This post is admittedly long, but please read all of it before responding. If I think it is obvious you have not read the whole post, I won't respond.
OK but some of the parts are irrelevant text explaining why you're posting, like:
Crux said:
I'm sorry but trying to pass your opinion off as fact is much more deplorable than anything that has taken place. Want to see the problem?Crux said:
"I disagree"
There, now you have utterly no argument, and unfortunately, the rest of your post rides on this false premise that you have presented. This premise is much too easily shown to be false because of your lack of reasoning, support, or evidence. I can just simply challenge its validity by saying the two words I did above.
Another fallacious thing you tried to do is dismiss the only relevant argument that there is: why are the suspects not broken. You try and sum it up in one sentence that holds no weight at all. For example, you try and make the claim that all of the Pokemon in question have checks, but that's irrelevant; Kyogre has checks in OU and UU. It's the nature, number, and viability of the checks that are relevant. You need to address these things before you have an argument:
Sure, Meditite has a few viable checks. There's.....Gastly and Misdreavus. I guess there's.....Acrobatics Gligar. What else? You now currently have 3 checks. There are probably a couple more. Now the trouble is that two of those Pokemon are possibly broken in their own right because of the very reasons they check Meditite (too fast too bulky too powerful). The other is reasonable, but not in any way reliable.
Sure, Misdreavus has some checks. Stunky works. Lileep in the sand works (2 Pokemon for checking one Pokemon). Do I need to repeat myself with the viability of the checks and scenarios in which these checks don't help? You basically can't even switch into Misdreavus in the first place unless you are one of those two Pokemon.
I don't really feel too strongly about the others, but in a nutshell, this is why you're wrong (about it being a fact) and why your opinion is misguided.
I do agree banning Vulpix was hasty and had a major influence from the PO metagame in a negative way (I don't mean to take a shot at the players, I mean everyone as a whole was affected), however this does not prove people being ban happy. There were valid arguments for wanting to ban Vulpix, and even though there are plenty of ways to beat it, people didn't seem to think they were reasonable (this is the point of disagreement for me). That's all.Crux said:
AcroGligar is probably not broken in my opinion but the big strength it has is that the metagame is being forced into using teams weak to it by the other suspects (ie Scraggy, Timburr, usual Slow Meditite switch-ins, etc.). AcroGligar is only getting noticed more now because of this.
What's taking your 28 Attack STAB Zen Headbutt / Drain Punch while you knock off? What about a STAB 110 BP boosted by flight gem Acrobatics from Gligar? Letting Misdreavus get a NP? How did you even switch this Pokemon into them in the first place without them setting up +2 or taking a strong attack (meditite)? There are obvious holes in your reasoning here, and you should elaborate more on these aspects of the argument since it's the only part that really matters.Crux said:
I keep coming back to viability, nature, and numbers. There are so few Pokemon that do it and the ones that do often make you weak to others (Croagunk and Timburr specifically make my point). This is a fact.Crux said:
Team preview is less useful in LC then any other metagame. I already know what I'm up against. The trouble is: I can't do a single fucking thing about it. If I prepare for Meditite I get fucked up by Misdreavus and vice versa. You can only be benefited by these previews if you use the same strategy and thus it becomes a race. Team building isn't even a part of this metagame.Crux said:
It is very interesting to me that you're defending a metagame that restricts innovation yet suggesting it. The only thing that's ridiculous here is your attitude towards other Little Cup players and your even more ridiculous generalizations about them.Crux said:
There is no allowed list in theory. We can't say "this metagame can't have more than X broken Pokemon banned from it" because we don't know.
We are getting repetitive. Acrobatics Gligar is being perceived as broken by people because of its destruction in relation to the other suspects. I'm not sure if it would be broken without them, and I think we should test it, but it's not like it's unreasonable to see "hey, I always have to sacrifice at least one and a half Pokemon to beat this Pokemon because I'm stuck using the same 6 Pokemon in order to not be swept by the others".Crux said:
The comical thing is that this even moreso suggests that we DO have broken Pokemon in the metagame. If people are freaking out over this (what you say is) not broken set, it might be because they are stuck in a metagame in which they can't really stop it effectively. You should perhaps try looking for a reasonable explanation before jumping to wild and pretentious conclusions.
I have a hard time taking your suggestions seriously when evidence and trends support exactly the opposite. To me it looks like facts vs opinion, and you're confusing the two.Crux said:
EDIT: on IRC you expressed that you feel I missed the point, however you are once again misguided. My post is not missing the point, it is redirecting you to the relevant "point" which you dismiss with a couple sentences here and there. You're focusing on something that cannot be backed up, and even if it could, it is still irrelevant in this particular round. Remember: the only thing that is relevant are whether or not the suspects are broken.
Crux
Banned deucer.
Heysup, you have missed the entire point of my post. Of course it is my opinion, any argument regarding the brokenness of any suspect is an opinion, you can back it up with what ever facts or rhetoric you want, but it is still an opinion. The fact that it is an opinion however, does not make it any less valid, and suggesting that it does is, as you claim some of my arguments to be, fallacious.
As I said in the post my post was not about the suspects at all, so I dont really know why you spent so much time arguing with me about them. I have never had trouble with any of the suspects. That is why I don't think they are broken. I am not going to share with you my various checks and counters because they are mine and give me an advantage.
So basically, you missed the entire point of my post and addressed the important part far less substantially than you did the practically irrelevant parts.
My post was calling for players to rethink how they view the banning of suspects.
Banning should be a very last resort, when you have tried all options available to you. In my opinion the Little Cup community is to quick to ban things that have very viable checks and counters. Your Kyogre analogy is false as it refers to checks and counters that are not viable outside of checking Kyogre (although, in the case of Gastrodon and Ludicolo that is debatable). I can think of many checks to all of the "suspects", all of them are equally viable outside of being checks and all of them are good.
A lot of your post seems to be looking for holes in my argument or misunderstanding of what I have posted and you can do this all you like. The fact is, my post was obviously opinionated, and any sound-minded person could see that. But implying that because it is my opinion it is less valid is fallacious.
Of course this is my opinion, I am not confusing them at all. The only confusion here is you thinking I'm attempting to pass my opinion off as fact. I am posting my opinion because I honestly believe there is something fundamentally wrong with this ban happy attitude.
I am posting my opinion because I believe it is right, and I dont want to sit idly by while you ruin the metagame that I like most.
Edit: Also, you can respond to this post if you want, but arguing with me wont change my opinion and Im catching my flight in like an hour. It is up to you now not to ruin Little Cup. (In my opinion)
Edit2: I just saw your edit, so I should probably respond to that. I believe this is equally as relevant as the brokenness of the suspects, which is equally an opinion and nearly as unprovable. As it stands, the attitude the Little Cup community has regarding the suspect testing process is bad, in my opinion. This is equally, if not more relevant to the discussion of suspects, as the mindset people have directly influences their feelings about the suspects, and the mindset people have now is not what it should be. (In my opinion).
As I said in the post my post was not about the suspects at all, so I dont really know why you spent so much time arguing with me about them. I have never had trouble with any of the suspects. That is why I don't think they are broken. I am not going to share with you my various checks and counters because they are mine and give me an advantage.
So basically, you missed the entire point of my post and addressed the important part far less substantially than you did the practically irrelevant parts.
My post was calling for players to rethink how they view the banning of suspects.
Banning should be a very last resort, when you have tried all options available to you. In my opinion the Little Cup community is to quick to ban things that have very viable checks and counters. Your Kyogre analogy is false as it refers to checks and counters that are not viable outside of checking Kyogre (although, in the case of Gastrodon and Ludicolo that is debatable). I can think of many checks to all of the "suspects", all of them are equally viable outside of being checks and all of them are good.
A lot of your post seems to be looking for holes in my argument or misunderstanding of what I have posted and you can do this all you like. The fact is, my post was obviously opinionated, and any sound-minded person could see that. But implying that because it is my opinion it is less valid is fallacious.
Of course this is my opinion, I am not confusing them at all. The only confusion here is you thinking I'm attempting to pass my opinion off as fact. I am posting my opinion because I honestly believe there is something fundamentally wrong with this ban happy attitude.
I am posting my opinion because I believe it is right, and I dont want to sit idly by while you ruin the metagame that I like most.
Edit: Also, you can respond to this post if you want, but arguing with me wont change my opinion and Im catching my flight in like an hour. It is up to you now not to ruin Little Cup. (In my opinion)
Edit2: I just saw your edit, so I should probably respond to that. I believe this is equally as relevant as the brokenness of the suspects, which is equally an opinion and nearly as unprovable. As it stands, the attitude the Little Cup community has regarding the suspect testing process is bad, in my opinion. This is equally, if not more relevant to the discussion of suspects, as the mindset people have directly influences their feelings about the suspects, and the mindset people have now is not what it should be. (In my opinion).
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