np: LC - Smells Like Teen Spirits

[Nails]

the point of raising reqs is to generate activity on the ladder. you're supposed to play more, that is the point.

I got to 1200 rather easily. I don't think it should be raised to 1300 though, I think 1250 should be good enough to seperate the men from the boys. 1300 is possible, but i'm not sure its the best choice for a smaller metagame like Little Cup.

PDC is a great battler. He also has no experience playing LC. I'm not calling him out or insulting him or anything, I'm saying that someone with no experience in the meta should not be voting. We're trying to make sure people know what they're voting for when they're voting, i don't see how you can have an issue with that.

I don't think anyone's arguing for 1300 at this point. 1250 makes randomuser69 win maybe 6 more battles than they would have to otherwise. It's not that much to ask, and we're increasing the quality of the voting pool in the process. It also makes the ladder more active, which, again, was the whole point of this.

 

[Blue_Star]

uh I got to 1300 rather easily (carvanha abuse ftw), but I think 1200 is enough. I mean, as of the moment I posted this, only 9 people have at least 1200 points...

 

[Lord Liam]

While still only a couple of points off of 1200 at this point, I believe that 1200 is an appropriate requirement (not due to laziness), it provides us with a good size of voters (around 10) and not too many randomuser69s.

 

[Crux]

OK. This argument is plainly stupid, we should be focussing on the actual suspects themselves rather than this somewhat retarded farce about suspect reqs. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but everyone who has supported higher ladder reqs is overlooking a few absolutely crucial points.

To begin with, this attitude that 1200 isnt high enough and that we dont want new users voting in our suspect tests. This, coming for Little Cup players, is stupid. The fact is Little Cup has a small player base and we want to attract new players, the lower ladder reqs do this. 1200 is not easy to achieve by any means, and obtaining reqs requires a good deal of metagame knowledge. Especially when factoring in rating decay. The fact is, "randomuser69" as you seem to insist on calling the new members to our community cannot simply hax his way through 10 battles to get to 1200. They will have to continuously battle in order to maintain this rating, else they will drop below reqs. 1200 is not easy to get in the first place, it requires specific metagame knowledge, and the maintaining of that rating is also very difficult.

Little Cup is currently the smallest metagame and this elitist "everyone who joins is crap" attitude is not helping anything. The reason why reqs are comparatively low to UU is because we lack the playerbase to have an active ladder; this is a deliberate measure in order to attract new players. And implying that any new players don't deserve to vote is equally as ridiculous.

The point of suspect testing is to get an appropriate cross-section of the community's feelings, not let a small clique vote over and over again, becoming increasingly biased and nuanced. The Vulpix ban was, in my opinion evidence of this, but that is just subjective. The community is currently very ban-happy and I dislike this sentiment immensely. We need new players and the lower reqs help to attract them.

Additionally, due to inactivity on the Little Cup ladder due to the aforementioned problems, 1200 is actually very difficult to maintain with issues such as tilts and hax.

I am actually really surprised and astounded that people are arguing for higher reqs, I thought this community wanted to help improve Little Cup. Maybe I was wrong...

 

[cosmicexplorer]

How have all of you been dealing with Wynaut? It's been a real force whenever I've used it or played against it.

 

[Gerard]

Wynaut is actually the best Meditite counter i've been able to found, really a nice poke since he can OHKO many pokes (and with oran berry may be able to take down another), i have really never seen one one the tier, but i guess i would try to play around him with u-turn mienshao to missy, but i really have not a clear idea since i've neer seen one

 

[Human]

Well, I am pretty new to this metagame, I started yesterday to tell you the truth.
I did get some help from Nails to start off last night and think I have a general grasp of the metagame now.

What I've seen is vhana is insanely powerful, Timburr is great at countering some key sweepers like vhana and scraggy, however that is countered by Meditite. Meditite and Caravhana on the same team is used an insane amount and is something I would consider overpowered under most circumstances. The two are insanely difficult to beat on their own, but packing them together with Meditite beating the more common Caravhana counter(s) and Caravhana hurting Slowpoke a lot along with being insanely strong on its own... Meditite also seems to be nearly uncounterable until you know its moveset and that makes it insanely powerful to begin with.

Those two things are what I've found to be the strongest and most OP things. Missy has also been a pain to play against but I found that with some prediction it can be beat, but it is still really good especially seeing that beyond just the Sub set it can also use Choice Scarf very well and that lets it capitalize on its offense again although it has really good bulk to go along with it.

 

[Raseri]

Wynaut is actually the best Meditite counter i've been able to found, really a nice poke since he can OHKO many pokes (and with oran berry may be able to take down another), i have really never seen one one the tier, but i guess i would try to play around him with u-turn mienshao to missy, but i really have not a clear idea since i've neer seen one

Wynaut is amazing, ive been using him to check Meditite, Timburr, Chinchou. Just about any non-boosting sweeper without a super-effective hit.

The problem with really high(1250+) requirements is that one unlucky battle can drop you so much, and with the general inactivity of the ladder, it can take a long time to gain back. I'm fine with 1200 requirements, it takes some skill to get there

 

[Diana]

Carvanha is just ridiculous, though Ferroseed is a good scout for it. Physical sets can't beat Ferroseed, and you can Protect to scout for Hidden Power Fire for a mixed set. You can work from there, but even then Carvanha isn't exactly one you can play around easily.

I'm on the fence on Misdreavus myself, but it's one I keep an eye on most.

Also 1200 reqs are fine, Crux put it better than I could.

 

[Nails]

after some heated discussion on irc 1200 seems fine. (i cannot emphasize enough how important irc is to the people that don't use it)

iirc it was masterful (if it was someone else sorry) who was hyping deino as a vanha counter, from 2 battles against it it looks like a total (BAN ME PLEASE). lileep and croagunk are pretty good checks too.

my post would not be complete without hype of my own, so i am hyping scarf gastly. basically it's scarf missy with more power and a stronger second stab move to work with. if you're into that sort of thing it can use knock off on the first switch and wreck its counter's ability to counter. icy wind is a solid 2hko on gligar, and it can trick if you don't need the speed (see: counter crippling) or if their scraggy set up +1 and your meditite got trapped by wyanut.

speaking of wynaut, it wasn't broken last gen and it's still not broken. if it's played well you are simply trading it one for one with an opponent's pokemon. it's amazing at what it does but what it does isn't gamebreaking; it just turns it into a 5v5 game instead of 6v6.

 

[masterful]

I personally would like to hype one gimmicky set in particular. As Nails said above, Gasty is an awesome scarfer. My only issue is that with Gastly, you know it's scarfed, because nobody uses anything other than Scarf on Gastly. In the case of Missy, every Vanha essentially looks for one prediction. If missy goes for HP Fighting, Vanha should Protect then Crunch. If Missy goes for Sub, Vanha should go fro Crunch and Crunch. This is a coinflip prediction a lot of the time, and I do not like coinflips. With Scarf Missy, Missy can go straight out for HP Fighting twice in a row. This way, regardless of whether or not Vanha goes for Crunch or Protect, it's dead. The only real issues this guy has are Stunky and Houndour, who still relies on a 50/50 prediction (in the case of Houndour), but that's no worse than Gastly. Also, Scarf Missy is good for guaranteeing that you outspeed things like Staryu, Gligar, and other Misdreavus, and allow you to 2HKO Scraggy who think they can set up on you, as long as 2 layers of spikes or 1 layer of spikes+sr is up.

Another set that I used for some time (ridiculous gimmick warning) was Flight gem Acrobatics Gligar. This way, the common pokes, such as Meditite and Scraggy, who have grown not to fear Gligar whatsoever, are easily OHKoed by Acrobatics, eliminating huge threats.

 

[Diana]

Ugh I faced that Gligar and it just KOed my Scraggy. I was shocked by it but it actually worked too. Less ridiculous in practice than in theory, really.

 

[comatthew6]

Agreeing with nails that scarf gastly is a champ. It outspeeds and easily kos smash clamperl, and also has the 2nd highest spa in the meta behind abra and like solosis both of which no one uses. Gastly outspeeds +1 vanha and does a lot with sludge bomb and easily kos with tbolt.

How have all of you been dealing with Wynaut? It's been a real force whenever I've used it or played against it.

Use scouts in gligar and stuff to uturn to a ghost type which are immune to counter then substitute which blocks encore iirc.

 

[masterful]

Wynaut is amazing, ive been using him to check Meditite, Timburr, Chinchou. Just about any non-boosting sweeper without a super-effective hit.

The problem with really high(1250+) requirements is that one unlucky battle can drop you so much, and with the general inactivity of the ladder, it can take a long time to gain back. I'm fine with 1200 requirements, it takes some skill to get there

The problem with Wynaut is that you're gonna lose him, so you better hope your remaining 5 are good against the opponent's remaining 5.

 

[v]

Reqs: 1250
The round ends June 30, which is when nominations will begin. We're trying to get the future suspect tests onto a more definitive timetable, so it's a short round to compensate, deal with it. I also plan on steadily raising requirements as rounds go by. Historically, higher reqs lead to more activity, period. This will help us grow our admittedly miniscule userbase while not becoming altogether too difficult. I honestly believe that if I made reqs 1300, I would get a solid 15 or so voters from a 2 week period. But, why take the risk?

Have fun, and no luck to everyone. See you all in a few~

 

[Heysup]

Alright let's all play more so I can get req's again (and stop using counter teams like Snover).


The combination of Missy, Meditite, and Carvanha is absolutely absurd. Everyone uses them and it's getting old....but hey that's why we're trying to vote at least two of the three out!

 

[cosmicexplorer]

Use scouts in gligar and stuff to uturn to a ghost type which are immune to counter then substitute which blocks encore iirc.

Encore the obvious Substitute. gg

OK, it's not that easy, but when Misdreavus is up against a Wynaut, 99% of the time they'll use Substitute, so Wynaut can Encore that, allowing some sweeper to set up on that, or even have Carvanha Crunch and get a speed boost and sweep. Encore hits through Substitute.

 

[SkyNet]

After the 5-6 games I have played so far on the ladder (Damn timezones -.-) Snover still seems to be a really solid Scarfer in this metagame even with all the fighters running rampage.

Just backing up Heysup's post Missy, Medtite and Carvanha are the best pokes in the Metagame by far at this period in time, imo tite and Missy do break this current metagame.

 

[Nails]

Adding that vanha is broken as fuck. it can do like 70% min to everything commonly used (over 3ish% in the usage stats i think, minus gunk who kind of sucks) and ofc it is faster than everything.

 

[fatty]

Gunk doesn't suck lol. Eviolite BU Gunk gives you a reliable counter to numerous things including Vanha, Scraggy, and pretty much every other bulky fighter lacking a Flying-type move (Tite excluded). That's not even mentioning the utility that Sucker Punch alone has either. The only thing I have to say bad about it is that while it counters 2 of the top threats in the meta, it also gives Missy and Gligar, also dominant threats, a fairly easy switch-in, but this can be covered in the last moveslot (I personally like Toxic because both of the aforementioned threats hate taking it).

edit: oh yea also, that deino hype was probably from me, not masterful. I built a team around it under my alt marshmallow and it's been performing pretty well. I'll hopefully post the set soon so I can get some feed back.

 

[Nails]

gunk beats timburr, vanha, and scraggy without zhb then, because mienfoo can uturn spam and there are no other bulky fighters. water immune is cool but chinchou has another stab to play with. and with every missy running sub or at least wow, you can't really beat it without predicting the switch in. because you literally do nothing to it.

it counters vanha which is cool but outside of blocking the fish it doesn't really do much, meditite outclasses it as a scraggy check because in other roles it is--a fucking beast. timburr is more reliable for scraggy killin and still checks vanha.

imo, unless you're weak to tspikes, gunk doesn't offer much in this meta that can't be done by other mons.

 

[fatty]

and uturn spam means that gunk doesn't wall mienfoo? there's been so many cases where a player has 'uturn spammed' all game long against me and it just comes down to my gunk and their mienfoo and of course i always win. also, like i said, yes missy is a problem, but don't all mons have their problems? i don't think the presence of missy and gligar automatically merits the use of the 'suck' label on gunk as it's still a great utility counter to a bunch of shit.

 

[Nails]

why would i go for an endgame of mienfoo vs croagunk when i lose it?

uturn spam means i get a free switch for missy, who sets up all day on gunk, making it a liability. being set up bait for the two best mons is really bad lol.

 

[fatty]

it's a trade off. you have the best counter to scraggy and vanha on your hands, but also let 2 other mons in gligar and missy switch in for free. idk if its how i play gunk or the mons i surround it with, but all im saying is that gunk is far from suckish and probably one of the best mons in the meta atm imo.

 

[Moo]

it's a trade off. you have the best counter to scraggy and vanha on your hands, but also let 2 other mons in gligar and missy switch in for free. idk if its how i play gunk or the mons i surround it with, but all im saying is that gunk is far from suckish and probably one of the best mons in the meta atm imo.

Confirming, fatty has beaten me many a time thanks to Croagunk :<
Sure, missy and Gligar beat it, but they're the top used Pokemon in the tier for a reason.