Resource Little Cup UU Viability Rankings

[OP]

Piggybackception

Joltik is completely, and I mean completely outclassed by Voltorb as an Electric type, as it has no moves with which to abuse Compound Eyes. It's only true niche is fast webs.

(It doesn't get webs)

Joltik has a really cool niche of a Volt Switch user that beats all immunities to it, meaning it can spam it easily and gain a lot of momentum for a team. It has this niche because of its Bug-typing and access to grass coverage. It also comes with a Grass and Fighting resist that Voltorb that does not have. Who cares if it doesn't have any moves to abuse Compound Eyes? Voltorb has a pretty terrible abilities as well. I personally think Joltik is far easier to fit on a team and way more effective in many match-ups than Voltorb and should be ranked higher than it.

 

[cityfolk]

(It doesn't get webs)

Joltik has a really cool niche of a Volt Switch user that beats all immunities to it, meaning it can spam it easily and gain a lot of momentum for a team. It has this niche because of its Bug-typing and access to grass coverage. It also comes with a Grass and Fighting resist that Voltorb that does not have. Who cares if it doesn't have any moves to abuse Compound Eyes? Voltorb has a pretty terrible abilities as well. I personally think Joltik is far easier to fit on a team and way more effective in many match-ups than Voltorb and should be ranked higher than it.

The reason Joltik was even mentioned was because it was claimed to be a "bird check" and doesn't really fit that role very well, and is outclassed by Voltorb in that sense (although neither can reliably switch in to birds). However, in a completely different sense unrelated to being a Bird Check, Joltik has the advantage of not being weak to ground type and has access to Giga Drain and Dual STAB. However, this doesn't necessarily mean it has to be ranked higher or lower than Voltorb imo.

 

[Camden]

I'd like to propose Gothita move down to A+. I'll cp my post from the council's suspect discussion:

"I feel as though our metagame is much too volatile for Goth to thrive properly. It's not very hard for her to grab a KO, but that can be said for most of the meta. Scarfers and priority are everywhere, and Knock Off is as present as ever, which hurts Goth's presence. On top of that, numerous higher threats easily deal with Goth. Houndour easily tears Goth to shreds. Skrelp, a Pokemon which you would think loses to Goth, cleanly KOs it with Hydro Pump after rocks (if fully invested in Special Attack + Modest). Doduo loses if it's LO but wins if it's Scarf. She can't come in on Riolu if it last used Crunch. (Big tip for people out there. Try to use Crunch w/ Riolu for revenge killing if your opponent has Goth. LO Crunch OHKOs). If Webs are up Goth can't even come in to do its job properly. (Thanks Oba- Spinarak.).

I guess I could talk about the Eviolite set, too. Evio Goth gets outsped by a lot more offensive threats but can take more hits. wooo. It ends up beating a few more defensive threats but loses to a lot more offensive threats."

 

[Joltage]

I'd like to nominate Sandile to at least be ranked on here (preferably like B- or so) I've been using him a bit and his scarf set makes for a competent snowball-sweeper and is just generally solid in performing janitorial duties for the tier. It outspeeds most, if not all, of the common scarfers in the tier like Gothita (whom it can pursuit trap, clearing holes for mons like Skrelp and Riolu), Darumaka, and Shellder with his very nice 17 speed; and ground immunities are fairly easily worn down and eliminated thanks to the difficulty of removing hazards plus brave bird and life orb recoil. Things that hold Sandile back are his pretty miserable bulk, weakness to priority (which is seriously just godly in this tier, imo), and general one-dimensional-ness; which is why I don't really feel like it should go higher than the B/B- range, but Sandile is certainly a very capable mon in this tier and deserves to at least be ranked.

 

[boo836]

Zorua for B+. Sd Sucker Punch and knock off feels good, so does illusion u-turn. Makes it very much like Fletch. Decent speed memento user too, perfect for moving into a wincon.

 

[Fiend]

Goth does need to drop as Sticky Webs is extremely popular which hinders it greatly as well as priority and many mons out speeding and easily killing. There is a small amount of moves that it can switch in on unless it has eviolite which makes it almost always have to tank a hit before it attacks. It can however nab usually 1 opposing mon on the other team, but it requires far too much support to be S rank. The viability of Zorua is also a detriment to Goth as it can disguise itself as a common Goth target and easily KO Goth. Houndour also shreds Goth and can use it to get up a flame charge and clean/wallbreak much better than before.

I'd suggest lowering it to A rank as of now.

 

[Disaster Area]

Add Azurill to at least C rank, it's a nuke under Trick Room

Mime.Jr to whatever's the lowest thing going and probably alongside like Togepi and Munna, full baton pass is an interesting and not totally unviable strat, I've seen it used but needs further exploration. I can't remember who used it versus me.. maybe SilentMango ?

 

[SilentMango]

Yeah that was me :). I think FullPass is Kind of Viable. The meta is definitely a little harder to play fullpass with Houndours and the fact that the meta is so offensive make it harder. Also, there is no other pokemon to fill the amazing void that Mienfoo fills so you have to result to something more mediocre like Drifloon, Sewaddle, stuff like that. However, I've only played FullPass twice in LC UU (one being vs piexplode) and twice in Normal LC, so I'm not very skilled in this department. Tagging more experienced FullPass players that have played LC UU like Infamy, and Kopaka (is he Tahu?). For their opinions.

 

[infamy]

Fullpass is definitely a lot better in LC UU now that Shellder is nerfed, it's a lot of fun- I was actually bringing it to LC UU minitour but I got critted twice RIP.

 

[Oma]

Nominating Totodile for B+/A-
With the release of Sheer Force, Totodile actually packs some power, and Dragon Dance lets it become a threatening sweeper with a great STAB SF Waterfall, SF Ice Punch, and priority in Aqua Jet. It has decent bulk and 14 speed (with Adamant nature), letting it set up on many Pokemon and then outspeed the whole unboosted meta. Ice Punch lets it get around Grass Types, who no longer switch in safely. Toto is still walled by bulky waters like Skrelp, so running Gothita can help remove its checks and let it win. Also supporting Sandile to B- because it is also a cute crocodile with great sweeping potential and pursuit trapping.

 

[Funbot28]

Why is Shellder S-Rank if Shell Smash is banned?

 

[Melon]

Why is Shellder S-Rank if Shell Smash is banned?

Scarf Shellder is still really good and does a lot of damages

Bulkier Rapid Spin sets are probably also a thing

 

[cityfolk]

Why is Sewaddle even C rank? What niche does it have, if any, over Spinarak? IMO, it should just be removed. Same goes with Binacle. It's pretty much useless without Shell Smash (and wasn't fantastic before).

Also, are these ever going to be updated? I made a post with a ton of suggestions over a month ago and absolutely nothing has changed.

 

[Disaster Area]

Why is Sewaddle even C rank? What niche does it have, if any, over Spinarak? IMO, it should just be removed. Same goes with Binacle. It's pretty much useless without Shell Smash (and wasn't fantastic before).

Also, are these ever going to be updated? I made a post with a ton of suggestions over a month ago and absolutely nothing has changed.

agree with sewaddle unless someone counters it, but iirc binacle has certain moves that give it a niche over similar pokemon, but a small one.

 

[Camden]

The reason why the op wasn't updated was because I wanted to see discussion on the suggestions first, but I guess since that probably won't happen I'll have the list updated tonight.

 

[Berks]

I'd like to nom Deino for C

Tricking used a swaggin RestTalk set against me in LCUU Minitour and i'm salty i got beat by an unranked mon

Deino has a good bulk, fantastic Attack, and a good typing for the meta. In a tier which is less fighting-dominant, Deino can make good use of its nifty resistances to Fire, Dark (gg doge), Psychic, etc.

Downsides include Hustle, no reliable recovery, and poor speed

 

[Camden]

Made the following changes:


Mantyke - B
Honedge - A-
Rufflet - B
Buneary - B
Finneon - B-
Bulbasaur - B-
Squirtle - C
Buizel - B
Clauncher - B-
Omanyte - S
Spoink - C
Togepi - C
Deino - C

Open to criticism and whatnot. Didn't bother adding Bellsprout because Sprout w/o Sun is really outclassed in most of his roles. I'm also open to removing Binacle if people think the Switcheroo + Band isn't viable at all.

 

[Joltage]

Only taking issue with the fact that you neglected the desert croc. Seriously, Sandile definitely deserves at least B/B-; I have used it quite a bit and have been nothing but impressed by him (specifically the scarf set). Just gonna copy my original post arguing for him because I'm too lazy to reword it now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd like to nominate Sandile to at least be ranked on here (preferably like B- or so) I've been using him a bit and his scarf set makes for a competent snowball-sweeper and is just generally solid in performing janitorial duties for the tier. It outspeeds most, if not all, of the common scarfers in the tier like Gothita (whom it can pursuit trap, clearing holes for mons like Skrelp and Riolu), Darumaka, and Shellder with his very nice 17 speed; and ground immunities are fairly easily worn down and eliminated thanks to the difficulty of removing hazards plus brave bird and life orb recoil. Things that hold Sandile back are his pretty miserable bulk, weakness to priority (which is seriously just godly in this tier, imo), and general one-dimensional-ness; which is why I don't really feel like it should go higher than the B/B- range, but Sandile is certainly a very capable mon in this tier and deserves to at least be ranked.

So yeah, unless anyone has any arguments stating otherwise, there is no way Sandile should remain unranked and should be B/B-

Moving forward, I have been really unimpressed by Gothita in this tier (possibly because I've been using Sandile, though Houndour and Stunky also laugh in Goth's face) and would argue for her to be moved down. I don't feel that I can really articulate my argument much beyond the fact that, for me at least, she doesn't really seem to do much. At most she can kill 1 mon on the opposing team and then is promptly revenged. I mean, I know that she can put in work against certain teams, but she just never has struck me as an S-rank worthy mon. Mons like Skrelp and Riolu always just seem to be more effective than Gothita in this meta. This may just be me, and I know my argument is incredibly subjective, but I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on Gothita, because I don't think she's all she's cracked up to be.

 

[cityfolk]

I most definitely agree with Joltage. I have been using Gothita on most of my LCUU teams and I've never really been impressed with it, especially since it doesnt have most of the slow walls like Spritzee/Foongus/etc. to Trick scarfs onto, and because it's piss weak. Sandile is actually really good and demolished me in a match we played together. It is very threatening with a +1 Crunch/EQ after revenging something and getting a Moxie Boost. It already has high speed and it is very tough to revenge it's Choice scarf set, especially when this tier lacks a lot of super effective priority (no timburr/gunk, although I'm surprised to learn that Snover is LCUU) to hit it with. I second the notion that it deserves, at the very least, B rank.

 

[Camden]

I could definitely agree to putting Sandile in B. Seems to be a great scarfer. Unless there are any objections, I'll be putting it in B and moving Goth down to A+.

 

[Anthiese]

Nominate Dour for S for these reasons

+ Great mixed attacking stats
+ Typing blocks burns and ability benefits from it
+ Comfy 17 Speed
+ Great attacking movepool with novelties such as

dour options are cool

• dark pulse
• fire blast
• sucker punch
• hp grass (s/o to Corporal Levi bc this move cost me r1 and im still mad)
• flame charge boosty sets
• sludge bomb (for fairies that dont exist)
• destiny bond
• taunt + wow is great for defensive set (it exists)
• sunny day + solarbeam for sexy sun abuse set
• np boosty bullshit sets
• crunch
• pursuit
• lol howl if ur into physical boosting sets but dont use this

+ Dour checks a massive chunk of the meta

Cons Dour has in this meta

- Birds outspeed and mess you up causing massive 50/50s on both ends
- Bad defensive typing bc weak to so much common stuff (Water / Ground / Rock)

Thoughts pls

EDIT: i wanted to tag levi but im a dolt and didnt do hides after i posted so rip

 

[Camden]

Added Sandile to B and dropped Gothita to A+. I'd like to see some more discussion on Houndour. I'd also like to see discussion on Skrelp and Riolu, because I'm considering both of them for S.

 

[Disaster Area]

proposing flabebe/shelmet for at least C, better than unranked.

shelmet - fighting resist, good physical and overall bulk (50/85/65), spikes, recover mandatory, and other options like bug buzz, giga drain, encore, toxic, baton pass that can custom fit your team. good check to random physicals, can avoid being set up bait, can recover itself, has at least 1 useful resist, can hit stuff.
flabebe - clerical options, wish aroma and moonblast, like a togepi with more power and speed but less physical bulk, still, a knock resist, dragon immune, decently fast and powerful.

more discussion, anyone else tried them?

I've seen Jac use swinub, also probably knows more than me about hound variants

 

[Fiend]

Flabebe is definitively a C mon, probs a little higher. Shelmet is iffy for me though since it has that SR weakness kinda nonexistent offensive presence and is weak to Flying, Rock, and Fire. Other mons can Spike stack too, but I guess it has niche worthy of a raise.

Skrelp on the other hand would enjoy staying at A+; it has STABs that are only walled by itself, Frillish and Tentacool and wallbreaking capabilities that shatter Mantyke and Licki alike. Thunderbolt / Hydro Pump / Sludge Wave / Scald cripples most pokemon and fancy switch ins and sacs are needed to get in safely. That set, it's low speed is an issue which requires Rest Talk or Webs to be run for longevity. Rest Talk allows it to live longer, but makes it less reliable as a whole while Webs struggles to help it out with anything at 16 speed. Usually it gets at least 1 kill and can switch into stuff, but 2 kills is a stretch and it needs a fair amount of team support to do well.

Blatantly biased towards Houndour. Staying silent.

Riolu can sweep pretty well, and can revenge kill quite a bit too. SD + prio HJK is killer, and Crunch makes it that much better. However, it needs team support to do that or it gets battered by Fake Out. Fake Out / a Ghost threaten Riolu and it can't do a sweeper or wallbreaker role as well as it needs to to move up. Quick Attack also messes with Riolu, but less severely.

 

[Oma]

-Houndour: Houndour looks excellent in S rank. Thanks to its amazing mixed stats, great offensive type, and wide move pool it has easily become one of the top Pokemon in LC UU. Houndour serves as a revenge killer, pursuit trapper, wall breaker, boosting sweeper (if nasty plot or flame charge) , lure (hp grass or ground), and it can do all this just by switching up a few moves. (It also stops Riolu sweeps with Sucker Punch if you're willing to play the 50/50 game) Dour is a stellar Pokemon in LC UU and should move up to reflect that.

-Skrelp: I wouldn't mind seeing Skrelp in S rank either. As a poison type it is one of the very few Pokemon that can switch into Riolu and force it out with a powerful Hydro Pump or Sludge Wave. Nothing can switch in on Skrelp, as Frillish, Tenta, and opposing Skrelp both are hit hard by Tbolt. Its speed lets it down in some situations, but its huge bulk lets it beat things like Shrew and the birds 1v1.

-Riolu: I don't believe Riolu should be moved to S because of its small amount of setup opportunity and the presence of other priority attacks. Riolu's mediocre bulk only allows it to set up on Pokemon that can't do much back, like Stunky or Lileep or something. (Though Stunky can have taunt so it can prevent copycat :O) In order to sweep, it needs not only the removal of Skrelp but also ghosts, as crunch is not strong enough to sweep and switching from HJK to Crunch lets your opponent attack or burn you. After set up, Riolu can still be dealt with by using priority attacks like Fake Out, Sucker Punch, or Quick Attack to give Riolu a much weaker (or ineffective) move to copy, and killing it while it tries to HJK again. (Although it is a 50/50 unless FO) Riolu is still an incredible mon in LC UU capable of revenge killing and easily sweeping teams when given proper support, but it is not worthy of S imo.