April 7* Raid Part 2: Typhlosion (Ghost Tera)

[wdcjernigan]

Ok, stupid question, but do you guys think Typhlosion will have Play Rough? Because if so, I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts on RR and Hydreigon.

Here's a brief summary of possibilities I have seen.

Typhlosion (M)
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Ghost
??? Nature
- Lava Plume / Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Extrasensory

Extra move ideas:
- Curse
- Play Rough
- Eruption
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake
- Brick Break / Low Kick
- Iron Head

Might make more sense to have a physical coverage move like Play Rough in the main set of 4 moves, probably over Extrasensory since folks have been saying it doesn't add much coverage. And Play Rough nukes Roaring Moon and Houndoom as stated recently.

Timed Will-O-Wisp, Eruption, and Curse are all possibilities.

 

[Perriechu]

I feel like Typhlosion's moveset will be something like

- Lava Plume (General spread move and also STAB)
- Focus Blast (Dealing with Dark types)
- Shadow Ball (Other STAB)
- Solarbeam (Gimmick move)

Then all of the raid mons have additional moves that set them up. I'm guessing Typhlosion's will be Eruption, Sunny Day and potentially Smokescreen/Thunder Punch? Typhlosion has no direct set-up moves so the only way it can do something is to use Sunny Day to make whatever Fire moves it has a lot stronger. It also allows it to use Solarbeam endlessly and "counter" water/ground/rock types that people might bring. Focus Blast obvi makes quick work of Krookodile and Tyranitar but the accuracy sucks, so Sunny Day Solarbeam is the next best option for it.

Extrasensory, Overheat, Bulldoze (Lowering speed so it can fire off Eruption quicker?) are also options. Typhlosion has a lot of tricks they just aren't necessarily powerful. It has a lot of somewhat decent physical options but I can't see them taking precedent over its stronger special moves. If Samurott wasn't mixed I don't see Typhlosion being that way either.

 

[Worldie]

Greninja and Decidueye were mixed BUT they also actually had solid mixed offensive stats.

If they add phisical non-stab coverage to Thyp, it'd actually be preferable to be hit by them due to its meager 84 attack and lower BPs on average. I'd take non-stab supereffective thunder punch over stab flamethrower any day

 

[wdcjernigan]

I feel like Typhlosion's moveset will be something like

- Lava Plume (General spread move and also STAB)
- Focus Blast (Dealing with Dark types)
- Shadow Ball (Other STAB)
- Solarbeam (Gimmick move)

Then all of the raid mons have additional moves that set them up. I'm guessing Typhlosion's will be Eruption, Sunny Day and potentially Smokescreen/Thunder Punch? Typhlosion has no direct set-up moves so the only way it can do something is to use Sunny Day to make whatever Fire moves it has a lot stronger. It also allows it to use Solarbeam endlessly and "counter" water/ground/rock types that people might bring. Focus Blast obvi makes quick work of Krookodile and Tyranitar but the accuracy sucks, so Sunny Day Solarbeam is the next best option for it.

Extrasensory, Overheat, Bulldoze (Lowering speed so it can fire off Eruption quicker?) are also options. Typhlosion has a lot of tricks they just aren't necessarily powerful. It has a lot of somewhat decent physical options but I can't see them taking precedent over its stronger special moves. If Samurott wasn't mixed I don't see Typhlosion being that way either.

Yeah I forgot about Sunny Day and Solarbeam.

Some ideas then:
T0 Sunny Day to enable Solarbeam (reasonable)
T0 Eruption (some have said this is a little much)
T0 Smokescreen (maybe too similar to Greninja)
T0 Curse (is this too powerful also?)

Not long until we find out.

 

[Worldie]

T0 Sunny Day to enable Solarbeam (reasonable)

Possible but honestly this would just look like Charizard v2

T0 Eruption (some have said this is a little much)

My own idea and T0 Shield + Eruption spam would be somewhat unique challenge of "can you survive long enough to break the shield" and incidentally hurt setup since you wouldn't really have time for it

T0 Smokescreen (maybe too similar to Greninja)

Being a single target debuff, I don't quite see much point in this one, kinda like Charizard just did a random t0 Overheat that served basically no purpose other than 25% chance of taking more dmg

T0 Curse (is this too powerful also?)

I don't think they'd go for this one as putting 1 person (or more) on a 4 turn timer (less considering they have to eat a hit or two on top of it) feels like a poor choice

Something that was mentioned was also a potential T0 Defense Curl + Rollout, which would be a interesting take but again feels like "punish 1 person for no particular reason". I also do wonder how that even would interact with the whole raid thing, would it behave like Outrage and basically keep hitting everyone 1 by 1 with Rollout and ... basically oneshot the 4th person hit for again, no particular reason?

 

[Perriechu]

Possible but honestly this would just look like Charizard v2


My own idea and T0 Shield + Eruption spam would be somewhat unique challenge of "can you survive long enough to break the shield" and incidentally hurt setup since you wouldn't really have time for it


Being a single target debuff, I don't quite see much point in this one, kinda like Charizard just did a random t0 Overheat that served basically no purpose other than 25% chance of taking more dmg


I don't think they'd go for this one as putting 1 person (or more) on a 4 turn timer (less considering they have to eat a hit or two on top of it) feels like a poor choice

Something that was mentioned was also a potential T0 Defense Curl + Rollout, which would be a interesting take but again feels like "punish 1 person for no particular reason". I also do wonder how that even would interact with the whole raid thing, would it behave like Outrage and basically keep hitting everyone 1 by 1 with Rollout and ... basically oneshot the 4th person hit for again, no particular reason?

This was something I thought about when thinking of the potential strategy sets it would run - and other than having it to be uniquely coded to potentially hit everyone(?) I don't see it being a viable strategy.

Forgot about Decidueye being mixed but I guess having a weak-ish spread move is the new staple for raid mons going forward, Lava Plume is p powerful and would be STAB too, maybe they'll just stick with Bulldoze again?

Either way I don't see Typhlosion being too hard unless they do the Eruption/Shield gimmick. In which case, 4 Houndoom's it is.

 

[formula4speed]

Skill Swap Umbreon for support?

Steal flash fire, give Typhlosion inner focus, click Snarl a bunch of times and cheer as needed.

 

[R_N]

Typhlosion does have one set up move (barring Leer) if it wants to go Physical, one I always forget about: Howl.
Like its not a good move but it only needs a little set up to get going anyway

 

[pika pal]

Typhlosion does have one set up move (barring Leer) if it wants to go Physical, one I always forget about: Howl.
Like its not a good move but it only needs a little set up to get going anyway

Any set up move works if they give Typhlosion free turns.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Umbreon generally seems great. Skill Swap with Inner Focus is an option, but I think Umbreon's bulky enough to not bother and let someone else get Flash Fire instead. If Typhlosion knows Lava Plume + any physical moves, Synchronize burn could be quite useful, and while it may interfere with allies trying to inflict other status conditions, 7* raids usually restore their status enough that that's not the meta strategy. Snarl/Helping Hand/Mud-Slap plus either Fake Tears or Screech seems close to perfect for a support mon.

It can pretty comfortably handle even Typhlosion's strongest possible opening strategy (assuming they have no qualms about copying Charizard):
0+ SpA Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in Sun: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (10.5% chance to 2HKO without Lefties).

EDIT: okay very annoyed to discover that Umbreon and Sylveon are the only Eeveelutions that can't learn Mud-Slap via TM, even though Eevee can

 

[Vengeance417]

Moveset is Eruption, Play Rough, Shadow Ball, and Earthquake.

 

[Perriechu]

Doesn’t have an opening move, which is odd. Not a lot of internal strategy to this one besides using Sunny Day (from what I’ve seen)

altho I was completely wrong about it not being mixed lol eye can hold my hands up

 

[R_N]

Dipping my toes in with my Ting-Lu (Assault Vest and Mud Slap on deck) Seeing how this works (or doesnt)

First run has a Goodra (shiny & tera dark; they came prepared!), Chi-Yu and Bellibolt

So basically the chiyu & I have cancelled each other out, oops

Anyway actually this whole run went terrible? Like chiyu died weirdly fast (THRICE) and there was a period of like 10 seconds where nothign was happening at all.
For Ting-Lu it just kept spamming Eruption. Kind of worked in m yfavor for most of it

ChiYu was the entire reason we lost, I feel, but we got really close by the end; got it to the last quarter of its health bar.




After the shield broke is started throwing out Shadow Balls and jesus christ you need Mud Slap for this. Not because it will kill you (I mean, it might) but because the animation takes ONE MILLION YEARS to finish. Does Tera Typhlosion main Jigglypuff because its timer stalling.

 

[doipy hooves]

This was a pretty straightforward yet tense first try Azumarill solo.

Notes:
Typhlosion started off with a regular Shadow Ball against me. Then it did a scripted Sunny Day and buff reset on itself, then hit me with a regular Eruption and then a scripted spread Eruption to kill me early. Then it put up a pretty early shield while I've just been Mud-Slapping so far. I continue to use Mud-Slap while it misses Eruptions, then it puts up Sunny Day again and spread Eruptions a turn later according to the script. After I heal cheer up and start nailing it with tera Play Roughs, I break through the shield. After about 50% HP it reset its debuffs but the AI keeps paralyzing it so I'm safe to outspeed and heal with my +6 Shell Bell Play Roughs, even as it lands both an Earthquake and Shadow Ball on me at one point. Overall it relied on dodging most hits, but this raid was pretty setuppable as Typhlosion didn't really reset my buffs after the start and you can get a lot of debuffs on it before what I imagine is its HP threshold.

Also it is tiny.

 

[R_N]

Attempt 2: Hydreigon, Toxapex, Dachsbun

This one....succeeded super easily. Toxapex had rain dance support, the Hydreigon boosted itself throughout the match, Dachsbun spammed Snarl, I was spamming Mud Slap, everyone got their teras up except the hydreigon, we all broke the shield super fast and Hydreigon nuked it form orbit the moment the shield went down. We didn't even get to the part where it was throwing out Shadow Balls.

Don't sleep on Ting-Lu!

 

[Vengeance417]

Solo'd with this:



Farigiraf @ Shell Bell
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 16 SpA / 252 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap
- Wish

Likely gonna use max SpA instead of SpDef since it can only hit me with physical moves after the Skill Swap goes off. Speed is to outpace Typhlosion before it can use Eruption.

 

[Krockodile]

This was a pretty straightforward yet tense first try Azumarill solo.
View attachment 507590View attachment 507584

Notes:
Typhlosion started off with a regular Shadow Ball against me. Then it did a scripted Sunny Day and buff reset on itself, then hit me with a regular Eruption and then a scripted spread Eruption to kill me early. Then it put up a pretty early shield while I've just been Mud-Slapping so far. I continue to use Mud-Slap while it misses Eruptions, then it puts up Sunny Day again and spread Eruptions a turn later according to the script. After I heal cheer up and start nailing it with tera Play Roughs, I break through the shield. After about 50% HP it reset its debuffs but the AI keeps paralyzing it so I'm safe to outspeed and heal with my +6 Shell Bell Play Roughs, even as it lands both an Earthquake and Shadow Ball on me at one point. Overall it relied on dodging most hits, but this raid was pretty setuppable as Typhlosion didn't really reset my buffs after the start and you can get a lot of debuffs on it before what I imagine is its HP threshold.

Also it is tiny.
View attachment 507591

What was your Azumarill build?

 

[doipy hooves]

What was your Azumarill build?

My Azumarill holds Shell Bell, moves Mud-Slap/Liquidation/Play Rough/Belly Drum, and the usual 252 HP/Atk Huge Power Adamant investment.

 

[R_N]

It is pretty funny how we were all thinking the worst when it came to Typhlosoin, and hell I know I was worried about spamming Eruption, but turns out to probably be the simplest & most manageable 7* thus far.

And guaranteed a shorty, so you can put him in every tiny bullied meme you can imagine

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

They really gave him Sunny Day and not Solar Beam?

 

[R_N]

They really gave him Sunny Day and not Solar Beam?

No synergy, no combos, and I guess doesnt even remotely try to prioritize Play Rough despite all the dark types.

Sad showing all around

 

[Krockodile]

Apparently I found a successful Typhlosion solo raid by the Youtuber HoodlumCallum.


This is the set he used:
172 Hp / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Rage Fist
Screech / Leer

The strategy was to use Screech on Turn 1, then Spam Rage Fist.
The question is why invest 84 Speed. If Annilhape ran a Adamant Nature with Perfect IVs, it would acheive a speed of 216, and if Typhlosion ran a Neutral Speed nature with Perfect IVs, it would achieve a speed of 212 (assuming Typhlosion raid boss is Level 90).

Wouldn't Annihlape be faster than Typhlosion? If so, why not invest the rest of the evs into hp?

Edit: Never mind Typhlosion is Level 100. So Annilhape would need 84 speed to outspeed Typhlosion.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

I'm gonna be using Krookodile. I'm thinking of investing in Spec Def since Typhlosion's Ak will be lowered at the start thanks to Intimidate and that Eruption scares me to death. Basically my strategy is to spam Snarl at the start to lower his Spec atk and I keep doing it until he sets up his shield. After that I use Bulk Up a few imes and go for Power Trip. According to Showdown Power Trip eventually becomes stronger than Crunch after 2 Bulk Ups.

 

[Chou Toshio]

No synergy, no combos, and I guess doesnt even remotely try to prioritize Play Rough despite all the dark types.

Sad showing all around

Solo'd with this:



Farigiraf @ Shell Bell
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 16 SpA / 252 SpD / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stored Power
- Nasty Plot
- Skill Swap
- Wish

Likely gonna use max SpA instead of SpDef since it can only hit me with physical moves after the Skill Swap goes off. Speed is to outpace Typhlosion before it can use Eruption.

Great spread. I ended up using the much more mundane Growl instead of Wish (didn’t feel like going through boxes to find a tutor/fishing out mirror herb), but it worked great.

I’d say this does seem like it’s arguably the easiest 7* but I doubt there’s a way it can be the fastest farm compared to Decidueye

 

[Nokocchi]

Got it second try with randos. Used the Dachsbun build I used for the original Charizard raid.

Dachsbun@Ability Shield
Bold 252 HP/252 Special Defense/6 Special Attack
Well-baked Body
Snarl
Howl
Mud-Slap
Helping Hand

Ended up just spamming Snarl and Mud-Slap, honestly.