April 7* Raid Part 2: Typhlosion (Ghost Tera)

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Depending on the situation, Skeledrige can use Snarl to lower Typlosion's special attack, whilst Torch song can be used to increase its own special attack. Slack Off can be used for recovery, whilst Shadow Ball is used as its primary offensive tool against Typhlosion. I used Tera Dark instead of Tera Ghost in case Typhlosion has Shadow Ball. However, if it doesn't, then Tera Ghost is the better choice.

Uh, you do realize Torch Song is a fire move, right? What, are you gonna use it on your allies?

 

[Krockodile]

Uh, you do realize Torch Song is a fire move, right? What, are you gonna use it on your allies?

I meant to say to use Torch Song against Typhlosion. That being said, I realised that Typhlosion might have Flash Fire, which can boost its own fire attacks.
Unfortunately, that means it can't boost its own special attacks. I will have to call the Skeledrige build inefffective.

 

[Vengeance417]

Here are some mons that might help break down Typlosion

Candidate 1: Houndoom
View attachment 506940

Houndoom @ Shell Bell
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl
- Mud-Slap / Rain Dance

What got me concerned is that Typhlosion has Eruption, a move that deals high damage the more HP it has. Since raids bosses have high hp, and that it has Eruption, it can deal heavy damage even to resists.
So, Flash Fire is the first ability that would be best against it, because it doesn't receive any damage from Fire Attacks.
Houndoom was the first option.

With Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse, it can deal heavy damage to Typlosion. Snarl is used to reduce its special attack, whist Mud-slap can be used to off-set its Focus Blast attack.
Only downside is that Houndoom may be frail. However, with Shell Bell it can get the health back. Plus, with Mud Slap, the inaccurate Focus Blast might not hit Houndoom at all.

Candidate 2: Hydregion

View attachment 506943

Hydreigon @ Shell Bell
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Rain Dance
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl

The set is similar to Houndoom, except Hydregion is more bulkier and isn't immune to Fire Attacks. It is however immune to Typhlosion's Earthquake, something that Houndoom can be vulnerable to. I should mention that when Hydregion is Tera Dark, it loses its resistance to Fire attacks.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Candidate 3: Skeledirge (DO NOT USE)
View attachment 506945

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Depending on the situation, Skeledrige can use Snarl to lower Typlosion's special attack, whilst Torch song can be used to increase its own special attack. Slack Off can be used for recovery, whilst Shadow Ball is used as its primary offensive tool against Typhlosion. I used Tera Dark instead of Tera Ghost in case Typhlosion has Shadow Ball. However, if it doesn't, then Tera Ghost is the better choice.

Edit: I realised that Typhlosion might have Flash Fire. If Skeledrige uses Torch Song against Typhlosion, it will instead increase its own special attack, which it can use its powerful fire attacks like Eruption against your allies.
Unfortunately, with no other way to boost Skeledrige's own special attack, I will have to call this build void.

Candidate 4: Grimmsnarl
View attachment 506946
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Assurance
- Spirit Break

This is more of a supportive mon. Light Screen is used to shield everyone from special attacks, whilst Reflect is used for any surprise physical attacks. Since Typhlosion would usually move first, Assurance is a great move against it, since it will always deal double damage when moving last. Spirit Break is used to lower Typhlosion's special attack.

Candidate 5: Arcanine

View attachment 506947

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Morning Sun
- Snarl
- Crunch
- Agility

Another Bulky sun support. Snarl for special attack drops. Morning Sun for healing, and Crunch to deal good damage against Typhlosion. Agility can be used if it's slower than Typhlosion

I was considering Tyranitar since it is bulky on the special side thanks to Sand Stream. However, the problem is that Sandstorm can only last up to 5 turns (if not using a Smooth Rock as an item), and Typhlosion can use Sunny Day to cancel Sandstorm. It will no longer be able to take Focus Blast.
If Tyranitar teras into Dark, it will lose its benefits from gaining a special defense from Sandstorm, since it is no longer Rock Type. Typhlosion can take advantage of this to use super effective attacks like Focus Blast or Solar Beam to wear it down.

If you guys have any comments about my raid builds for Typhlosion, please let me know.

For some of these, I recommend investing a bit of Speed to jump over 236, Typhlosion's neutral 31 IV Speed tier, to hit 237. Your mons are fast enough to where they won't need significant investment, and the benefit for your Snarl users is that you go first, lowering Typhlosion's SpA before it can attack you.

 

[Krockodile]

For some of these, I recommend investing a bit of Speed to jump over 236, Typhlosion's neutral 31 IV Speed tier, to hit 237. Your mons are fast enough to where they won't need significant investment, and the benefit for your Snarl users is that you go first, lowering Typhlosion's SpA before it can attack you.

I haven't actually thought about that; it's a good idea to increase their speed.

Is it likely that Typhlosion will be running a max Speed and max Special Attack? Or are bosses usually more invested in their HP stat?

 

[AztecCroc]

I haven't actually thought about that; it's a good idea to increase their speed.

Is it likely that Typhlosion will be running a max Speed and max Special Attack? Or are bosses usually more invested in their HP stat?

The 7 star raid bosses don't have EVS.

 

[Krockodile]

The 7 star raid bosses don't have EVS.

I didn't know that. So they would have just a neutral nature then with perfect IVs.
Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

I'm pretty sure the nature is random. When I battled Samurott in some battles Tauros would outspeed even with the Speed drop from Bulldoze, while other times Samurott outsped.

 

[doipy hooves]

I would not rule this out unless Curse is one of those moves which do no work in raids. It would most likely not halve its whole HP bar, just one half of one regular HP bar (like what happened when Cinderace missed High Jump Kick). If this is a possibility it seems it would be very annoying, especially since nothing with Magic Guard is currently available.

Boss Curse does work in raids as I personally noticed against Ghost Copperajah which I ended up just using Gholdengo against. Speaking of moves that surprisingly work in raids, despite no boss having 2-turn moves in their base moveset so far, I noticed that boss Ditto can successfully use Solar Beam, though it acts similarly to Truant and recharge moves where the charge and attack are split up across different players so you can't really predict who will get hit unless everyone takes their turn one after the other, and the target who causes the boss to charge Solar Beam may not be the one actually getting hit by it, which can also be seen in how bosses can uselessly use Outrage and other turn lock moves against immunities. If they wanted to be mean they could combine double turns and Solar Beam to spam them in one hit without sun, but otherwise I feel like Solar Beam might be a handicap on the AI since it may not actually get to land it on the intended target.

I'm pretty sure the nature is random. When I battled Samurott in some battles Tauros would outspeed even with the Speed drop from Bulldoze, while other times Samurott outsped.

Samurott was fixed to be Lonely so you probably stumbled into a speed tie or some other speed control mechanic.

 

[MurderousMantyke]

Here are some mons that might help break down Typlosion

Candidate 1: Houndoom
View attachment 506940

Houndoom @ Shell Bell
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl
- Mud-Slap / Rain Dance

What got me concerned is that Typhlosion has Eruption, a move that deals high damage the more HP it has. Since raids bosses have high hp, and that it has Eruption, it can deal heavy damage even to resists.
So, Flash Fire is the first ability that would be best against it, because it doesn't receive any damage from Fire Attacks.
Houndoom was the first option.

With Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse, it can deal heavy damage to Typlosion. Snarl is used to reduce its special attack, whist Mud-slap can be used to off-set its Focus Blast attack.
Only downside is that Houndoom may be frail. However, with Shell Bell it can get the health back. Plus, with Mud Slap, the inaccurate Focus Blast might not hit Houndoom at all.

Candidate 2: Hydregion

View attachment 506943

Hydreigon @ Shell Bell
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Rain Dance
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl

The set is similar to Houndoom, except Hydregion is more bulkier and isn't immune to Fire Attacks. It is however immune to Typhlosion's Earthquake, something that Houndoom can be vulnerable to. I should mention that when Hydregion is Tera Dark, it loses its resistance to Fire attacks.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Candidate 3: Skeledirge (DO NOT USE)
View attachment 506945

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Depending on the situation, Skeledrige can use Snarl to lower Typlosion's special attack, whilst Torch song can be used to increase its own special attack. Slack Off can be used for recovery, whilst Shadow Ball is used as its primary offensive tool against Typhlosion. I used Tera Dark instead of Tera Ghost in case Typhlosion has Shadow Ball. However, if it doesn't, then Tera Ghost is the better choice.

Edit: I realised that Typhlosion might have Flash Fire. If Skeledrige uses Torch Song against Typhlosion, it will instead increase its own special attack, which it can use its powerful fire attacks like Eruption against your allies.
Unfortunately, with no other way to boost Skeledrige's own special attack, I will have to call this build void.

Candidate 4: Grimmsnarl
View attachment 506946
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Assurance
- Spirit Break

This is more of a supportive mon. Light Screen is used to shield everyone from special attacks, whilst Reflect is used for any surprise physical attacks. Since Typhlosion would usually move first, Assurance is a great move against it, since it will always deal double damage when moving last. Spirit Break is used to lower Typhlosion's special attack.

Candidate 5: Arcanine

View attachment 506947

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Morning Sun
- Snarl
- Crunch
- Agility

Another Bulky sun support. Snarl for special attack drops. Morning Sun for healing, and Crunch to deal good damage against Typhlosion. Agility can be used if it's slower than Typhlosion

I was considering Tyranitar since it is bulky on the special side thanks to Sand Stream. However, the problem is that Sandstorm can only last up to 5 turns (if not using a Smooth Rock as an item), and Typhlosion can use Sunny Day to cancel Sandstorm. It will no longer be able to take Focus Blast.
If Tyranitar teras into Dark, it will lose its benefits from gaining a special defense from Sandstorm, since it is no longer Rock Type. Typhlosion can take advantage of this to use super effective attacks like Focus Blast or Solar Beam to wear it down.

If you guys have any comments about my raid builds for Typhlosion, please let me know.

Ftr assurance (on your grimm set) doubles in bp if the target has already taken damage on that same turn, not when moving last. You might have been thinking of payback? Assurance still sounds like a fine move to slot regardless.

 

[Krockodile]

Ftr assurance (on your grimm set) doubles in bp if the target has already taken damage on that same turn, not when moving last. You might have been thinking of payback? Assurance still sounds like a fine move to slot regardless.

Yeah you're right, thank you for correcting my mistake.
In that case, maybe False Surrender would be a better option, since it deals more damage.
I was thinking like Grimmsnarl would be usually slower than their teammates, though it also depends on how fast the Grimmsnarl player clicks the move compared to their teammates.

 

[R_N]

Yeah you're right, thank you for correcting my mistake.
In that case, maybe False Surrender would be a better option, since it deals more damage.
I was thinking like Grimmsnarl would be usually slower than their teammates, though it also depends on how fast the Grimmsnarl player clicks the move compared to their teammates.

False Surrender is also perfect accuracy which could help if Typhlosion decides to use smoke screen

 

[Vengeance417]

Farigiraf @ Shell Bell
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Nasty Plot
- Stored Power
- Skill Swap

Skill Swap to steal Flash Fire and be immune to both STABs lol

 

[Worldie]

Farigiraf @ Shell Bell
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Nasty Plot
- Stored Power
- Skill Swap

Skill Swap to steal Flash Fire and be immune to both STABs lol

Tbfh if it doesn't turn 1 shield, this is the Galaxybrain strat.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Skill Swap is the real can opener. Beyond Giraf it makes things Oranguru, Wigglytuff and even Venomoth or Meow interesting.

God I wish Venomoth had Stored Power or Shadow Ball or anything… Quiver Dance, Acid Spray, Struggle Bug, Morning Sun, cool options~

might still be a cool supporter

Edit: What would be hilarious is to find the best Doodle Grafaiai set to give yourself and all Allies Flash Fire

Grafaiai
Prankster / Poison Touch
Shell Bell
Tera Dark (?)
-Doodle
-Swagger / Acid Spray
-Foul Play / Tera Blast
-Mud Slap / Nasty Plot

 

[R_N]

the real galaxy brain strat is using Trick Ring Target so the army of Iron Hands can Drain Punch to their hearts content

 

[Perriechu]

Skill Swap is the real can opener. Beyond Giraf it makes things Oranguru, Wigglytuff and even Venomoth or Meow interesting.

God I wish Venomoth had Stored Power or Shadow Ball or anything… Quiver Dance, Acid Spray, Struggle Bug, Morning Sun, cool options~

might still be a cool supporter

Edit: What would be hilarious is to find the best Doodle Grafaiai set to give yourself and all Allies Flash Fire

Grafaiai
Prankster / Poison Touch
Shell Bell
Tera Dark (?)
-Doodle
-Swagger / Acid Spray
-Foul Play / Tera Blast
-Mud Slap / Nasty Plot

Main issue with Grafaiai is that Typhlosion is definitely going to carry Extrasensory, so even before you can tera you risk being a massive hinderance to your team and pulling down the timer even quicker.

 

[Terimas]

Main issue with Grafaiai is that Typhlosion is definitely going to carry Extrasensory, so even before you can tera you risk being a massive hinderance to your team and pulling down the timer even quicker.

I find it rather unlikely that Typhlosion would have Extrasensory, since the extra coverage from Psychic-type moves is very poor. Fire/Ghost/Fighting seems most likely.

Anyway, Doodle, Acid Spray, Mud-Slap and Helping Hand would likely be the set of choice.

 

[Vengeance417]

Main issue with Grafaiai is that Typhlosion is definitely going to carry Extrasensory, so even before you can tera you risk being a massive hinderance to your team and pulling down the timer even quicker.

Even if it does use Extrasensory, it won't do a whole lot vs max SpDef Grafaiai:

0+ SpA Tera Ghost Typhlosion Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Grafaiai: 122-144 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

This is just w/ base damage, and it doesn't factor in people using Snarl, using Light Screen, defense cheers, etc. You can also try to fit in Parting Shot, as well.

 

[Chou Toshio]

the real galaxy brain strat is using Trick Ring Target so the army of Iron Hands can Drain Punch to their hearts content

But Trick and Switcheroo fail in Raids… too bad no more foresight / odor sleuth

 

[Moreminds2005]

Farigiraf @ Shell Bell
Ability: Cud Chew
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Amnesia
- Nasty Plot
- Stored Power
- Skill Swap

Skill Swap to steal Flash Fire and be immune to both STABs lol

Also, does Skill Swap work in Tera Raids? I know it fails in Max Raids.

 

[Vengeance417]

Also, does Skill Swap work in Tera Raids? I know it fails in Max Raids.

It does! A common raid strategy is to use Skill Swap with a Weak Armor Polteageist, then use Trick Room.

 

[wdcjernigan]

First, a discussion question. How does the player wipe timing affect the strategy for this? Does an early wipe cancel out one shot strategies? Or is it too specific to speculate before we know the set up?

Second, judge this likely suboptimal set. I don't think anyone has mentioned this mon

Krookodile @ Shell Bell
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Power Trip
- Bulk Up / Hone Claws
- Mud-Slap / Hone Claws
- Snarl / Hone Claws

 

[AztecCroc]

First, a discussion question. How does the player wipe timing affect the strategy for this? Does an early wipe cancel out one shot strategies? Or is it too specific to speculate before we know the set up?

Second, judge this likely suboptimal set. I don't think anyone has mentioned this mon

Krookodile @ Shell Bell
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Power Trip
- Bulk Up / Hone Claws
- Mud-Slap / Hone Claws
- Snarl / Hone Claws

No one's mentioned it because Typhlosion can nuke it with Focus Blast.
Neutral Nature: 0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 248-292 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Sp Atk+ Nature: 0+ SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Vengeance417]

No one's mentioned it because Typhlosion can nuke it with Focus Blast.
Neutral Nature: 0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 248-292 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Sp Atk+ Nature: 0+ SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Krookodile: 272-320 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

In all fairness, Houndoom also gets nuked by Focus Blast, and it's heavily theorymonned to being one of the better picks (mainly because of Flash Fire, but I digress).

First, a discussion question. How does the player wipe timing affect the strategy for this? Does an early wipe cancel out one shot strategies? Or is it too specific to speculate before we know the set up?

Second, judge this likely suboptimal set. I don't think anyone has mentioned this mon

Krookodile @ Shell Bell
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Power Trip
- Bulk Up / Hone Claws
- Mud-Slap / Hone Claws
- Snarl / Hone Claws

Anyway, I recommend this spread:

Krookodile @ Shell Bell
Ability: Anger Point
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 216 Atk / 224 SpD / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Trip
- Snarl
- Bulk Up
- Mud-Slap / Hone Claws

You outspeed Typhlosion to get the Snarl off, and this spread enables this (not factoring in screens, other Snarls, defense cheers, etc):

-1 0+ SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 224 SpD Krookodile: 138-164 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Also, in case of random crit, Anger Point boosts you to +6. Better than Intimidate imo unless it has physical moves, which I doubt.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

Ok, stupid question, but do you guys think Typhlosion will have Play Rough? Because if so, I'm starting to have 2nd thoughts on RR and Hydreigon.