April 7* Raid Part 2: Typhlosion (Ghost Tera)

[Perriechu]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1645203236314308609

Runs from April 14th - 16th and then repeated the following weekend.

Quite surprised it’s Ghost type, I was expecting Psychic - Ghost kinda treads on Typhlosion-H a little.

They seem to be pushing these out quite quick lately. Home confirmed?

 

[R_N]

Hey they did the thing I wanted them to do with the other 2 Hisuians, heh.

OK so quick check of things to watch out for:
-Flash Fire ability.
-It's got Shadow Claw as a physical optoin and Shadow Ball as a special
-Rollout + Defense Curl?
-Leer seems like something to keep an eye on if it goes Physical. It's basically attack+1.
-As a Ghost type, it will not be using Curse
-Eruption could be a pain if it goes special
-Be wary of Smokescreen

 

[wdcjernigan]

-Eruption could be a pain if it goes special

Yeah it sure could, but doesn't it feel right that Eruption would be what they build the raid around?

Eruption before the timer starts, then Eruption again after, say 60s.

I feel like Eruption has been Typhlosion's main claim to uniqueness over the years. Any other thoughts?

 

[R_N]

Yeah it sure could, but doesn't it feel right that Eruption would be what they build the raid around?

Eruption before the timer starts, then Eruption again after, say 60s.

I feel like Eruption has been Typhlosion's main claim to uniqueness over the years. Any other thoughts?

Doing an immediate damage chceck at the start before you can do anything feels too much, but I do like the idea of it being tied to timer.
If it decides to do it at lower health maybe it runs it twice? Or it brings out Reversal.



I was going to suggest it bring along a Dark move to spite Zoroark-H but the only dark move it gets is Fling.

 

[Perriechu]

a first turn Eruption would be so *nasty* but I can’t see them doing it. But I can definitely see Eruption being its moveset.

Chansey/Blissey is looking to be quite decent support for this. Can tank all of its special attacks. If it gets a physical attack, it’ll more than likely be Shadow Claw.

Gets Light Screen, generates healing, helping hand etc but no way to lower stats outside of charm. Umbreon might be the preferred option due to Fake Tears or even Pex (altho can’t remember if Pex learns any SPD lowering moves)

Chi-Yu is probably going to the best offensive threat for this one. No reason why it can’t OHKO after some Nasty Plots (if it indeed is built like the rest)

Houndoom for those girls on a budget.

Hydreigon, Tyranitar and Roaring Moon could also be used. It might carry Focus Blast though.

 

[Emergence]

Decidueye had double attacks, Samurott had crit hell, what will Typhlosion’s annoying gimmick be? I think it would be funny if it does the ability nullification thing right before it casts Eruption, just so you can’t absorb it with Flash Fire or the bread dog. Maybe turn 1 it will cast Sunny Day to power up its Eruptions and us Solar Beam too? I think Lava Plume will be its main fire move, to spread burns. It could possibly run Earthquake to hit Fire types, and as R_N said, Smokescreen could be very annoying.

 

[Wolfencrest129]

> even Pex (altho can’t remember if Pex learns any SPD lowering moves)

Pex learns Acid Spray so it's probably the safest choice. Acid Spray, Recover, Chilling Water/Hex, Baneful Bunker would probably be a good set.

 

[Vengeance417]

I have a feeling this mon will be the easiest of the three "Hisui" starters since it doesn't have setup moves outside of Curse, so it might try some cheese strats or something, idk. Smokescreen sounds within the realm of possibility, so I came up with this:



Skuntank @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye / Stench
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 208 SpD / 48 Spe or 252 SpA / 124 SpDef / 132 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Spray
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl

If Typhlosion has Smokescreen, this will be the one rare instance where Keen Eye can work as an ability, since it makes the user immune to accuracy drops. Skuntank has Keen Eye while also having access to Acid Spray, Nasty Plot, STAB Dark Pulse, and even Snarl to weaken Typhlosion's SpA. The Speed is for neutral Typhlosion, but if it's Timid, an alternative spread is posted to outspeed that. The SpDef ensures that Modest (or Timid) Fire Blast is a 4HKO after using Snarl once. If Typhlosion ends up not having Smokescreen, Stench would be the better ability to give Snarl a 10% flinch chance.

 

[CPU]

Hey they did the thing I wanted them to do with the other 2 Hisuians, heh.

OK so quick check of things to watch out for:
...
-It's got Shadow Claw as a physical optoin and Shadow Ball as a special

I thought this was an error on your part (mixing it up with Hisuian's learnset) but no, they actually gave vanilla Typhlosion Shadow Ball in Gen 9 as well. Seems like a really odd decision unless they were planning these in advance. Maybe they wanted to give it more of a tenuous link as to why Hisuian Typhlosion is Ghost Type? It's not like Samurott has many Dark options aside from Night Slash, and Decidueye only had Low Sweep for Fighting.

 

[AztecCroc]

It's not like Samurott has many Dark options aside from Night Slash, and Decidueye only had Low Sweep for Fighting.

Both Samurott learn the following Dark moves in SV:

• Thief
• Fling
• Taunt
• Knock Off
• Night Slash

Regular Assurance via transfer, I'm not sure why they removed it as an Egg move.

Dark moves Hisuian Samurott learns that regular doesn't:

• Sucker Punch
• Ceaseless Edge
• Snarl
• Dark Pulse

Regular Samurott also has Assurance via transfer, I'm not sure why they removed it as an Egg move.

Both Decidueye learn the following Fighting moves in SV:

• Low Kick
• Low Sweep

Fighting moves Hisuian Decidueye learns that regular doesn't:

• Triple Arrows
• Bulk Up
• Brick Break
• Aura Sphere
• Reversal
• Focus Blast
• Close Combat

Both Typhlosion learn the following Ghost moves in SV:

• Shadow Claw
• Shadow Ball
• Curse

Ghost moves Hisuian Typhlosion learns that regular doesn't:

• Infernal Parade
• Confuse Ray
• Hex
• Night Shade

Hisuian Typhlosion also has Ominous Wind via transfer.

 

[Perriechu]

> even Pex (altho can’t remember if Pex learns any SPD lowering moves)

Pex learns Acid Spray so it's probably the safest choice. Acid Spray, Recover, Chilling Water/Hex, Baneful Bunker would probably be a good set.

Ah yes, I knew it would be obvious lol

Actually Chi-Yu might not be the best option due to its ability. So Houndoom + Pex might be the solution here.

 

[Menshay]

-As a Ghost type, it will not be using Curse

I would not rule this out unless Curse is one of those moves which do no work in raids. It would most likely not halve its whole HP bar, just one half of one regular HP bar (like what happened when Cinderace missed High Jump Kick). If this is a possibility it seems it would be very annoying, especially since nothing with Magic Guard is currently available.

Doing an immediate damage chceck at the start before you can do anything feels too much

Charizard did Overheat with immediate debuff reset, Pikachu did Rain Dance + Surf; this is not unheard of.

Initial list of interesting options:
- Zoroark (Hisui): immune to Ghost + Ghost STAB, but very frail
- Houndoom: Flash Fire + Ghost resistance + Dark STAB, but very frail
- Greninja: Fire and Ghost resistances + Dark STAB
- Umbreon: high special bulk + Ghost resistance + Synchronize for burns + the usual support options
- Spiritomb: just a bulky Dark type
- Hydreigon: Fire and Ghost resistances + Dark STAB and non-null bulk
- Ting-Lu: high special bulk + Ghost resistance
- Blissey / Chansey: very high special bulk
- Indeedee: nice special bulk + Ghost immunity + Shadow Ball

 

[Chou Toshio]

I agree with others Chi-Yu stands out most on paper. But I’m thinking it will have Focus Blast, which is why I think Houndoom will be cool, throwing Mud Slaps to screw with Focus Miss.

-Mud Slap
-Nasty Plot
-Snarl
-Dark Pulse

 

[Worldie]

The problem I have with Chi-You is the same the others have mentioned: (assuming this actually applies), you're also reducing your party's spdef (well unless there's 4 chi-yous KEKW), which may be pretty detrimental with the inevitable special fire stab.

Personal opinions, in no specific order:
- Raid is guaranteed to have a special fire stab. Most likely Flamethrower, with high chance of either Lava Plume or t0 Eruption.
- My bet for the gimmick is t0 shield + Eruption spam with the challenge basically being "can you break the shield before he kills you"
- I don't quite see it having a phisical moveset since Thyp's phisical options are limited, and even if it does, being non-stab or low BPs and either ways coming off a meager 84 attack will mean it's easy to wall. Differently from Greninja, Samurott and Decidueye, Thyp is a clear special attacker like Charizard and doesn't have solid mixed offenses.
- Realistically speaking we're looking at Flamethrower / Shadow Ball / Extrasensory with any of Eruption, Sunny Day + Solar Beam, maybe Will-o-wisp tackled in.
- Basically get your Blissey ready if you want supporting mons

I struggle to see anything that'd be remotely challenging other than either t0 Shield + Eruption spam, and "MAYBE" Curl + Rollout (but again, non stab, low attack, super easy to stop with mud slap).
I think this may be pretty free unless they pull off some "new" mechanic (kinda like they pulled the double turn for Decidueye).

 

[PyProd]

I think I will once again whip out my support Goodra (Life Dew + Acid Spray + fillers) for this raid! Typhlosion can't realistically touch this stuff hard and it even has Rain Dance support if Typhlosion indeed turns out to use Sunny Day. I will also keep Chilling Water if it turns out to be physical or some sort of mixed set.

 

[R_N]

I thought this was an error on your part (mixing it up with Hisuian's learnset) but no, they actually gave vanilla Typhlosion Shadow Ball in Gen 9 as well. Seems like a really odd decision unless they were planning these in advance. Maybe they wanted to give it more of a tenuous link as to why Hisuian Typhlosion is Ghost Type? It's not like Samurott has many Dark options aside from Night Slash, and Decidueye only had Low Sweep for Fighting.

They synch up the TM movepools where they think appropriate; Typhlosion already had Shadow Claw so probably thought Shadow Ball was fine. Night Shade, Hex & Confuse Ray were probably marked as "too ghostly" in comparison.
Curse is actually similar; it's a new egg move and the first time since it was a near-universal TM it went to the line. Did the same thing with Cubone in USUM

 

[Nokocchi]

They synch up the TM movepools where they think appropriate; Typhlosion already had Shadow Claw so probably thought Shadow Ball was fine. Night Shade, Hex & Confuse Ray were probably marked as "too ghostly" in comparison.
Curse is actually similar; it's a new egg move and the first time since it was a near-universal TM it went to the line. Did the same thing with Cubone in USUM

Also, let's be honest. Typhlosion needs as many special movepool boosts as possible. Outside of a bunch of normal and fire moves, it's special movepool from Gen IV to Gen VIII has only consisted of Mud-Slap, Solar Beam, Focus Blast, and Extrasensory.

 

[pika pal]

Shadow Ball is the only real reason Ceruledge doesn't immediately walk all over this thing. If they planned long term to do a Raid with it I could see the move being added when that decision was made since Hisuian puts it on theme already.

• Hydreigon and Roaring Moon are the most immediate options that pop out defensively without debuffing your team like Chi-Yu threatens to, which makes me wonder if we're going to see Focus Blast in Typhlosion's moveset to complement the Ghost STAB it gains.
• Mud Slap/Rock Tomb Ting-Lu could also be good for support if the main counters end up being Physical Attackers.
• Houndoom is a bit frail but has Flash Fire + Dark based resistances, while having both Nasty Plot for personal damage and Howl if you want to support Physical Teammates at other times instead.
• Arcanine works similarly, trading resistance for outright bulk, and also has Helping Hand as another Support option

 

[Chou Toshio]

Boring, but as long as the wipes are not too unreasonable Stored Power Vaporeon can probably solo again too…

Also I can’t be helped by the intrigue of Eviolite Rage Fist Primeape but literally no defensive moves— no Amnesia, no Double Team, not even things like Snarl/Mud Slap. :(

 

[Band]

Houndoom seems to me like one of, if not the best, option for this raid. Fire immunity (which also means burn immunity from Lava Plume and Will-O-Wisp), Ghost resistance, access to Nasty Plot and STAB Snarl and Dark Pulse, etc. Only thing I'm worried about is Focus Blast, but one Snarl or two should do the trick + it's not called Focus Miss for nothing. Roaring Moon, Ting-Lu, and Spiritomb also seem to be really good options.

 

[pika pal]

Houndoom seems to me like one of, if not the best, option for this raid. Fire immunity (which also means burn immunity from Lava Plume and Will-O-Wisp), Ghost resistance, access to Nasty Plot and STAB Snarl and Dark Pulse, etc. Only thing I'm worried about is Focus Blast, but one Snarl or two should do the trick + it's not called Focus Miss for nothing. Roaring Moon, Ting-Lu, and Spiritomb also seem to be really good options.

I'm becoming more and more partial to Accuracy Reducing strategies since I've had several runs go belly up to an untimely crit despite everyone playing as they reasonably should. That'd especially be what I favor if Typhlosion lacks any utility moves or build options and just uses its Raid Gimmick to go all out offensive (like Sun + Double Attacking or such). Also has the bonus of skipping the animation sometimes being faster (especially on multi-hit users like that stupid Squirrel).

That said if using Houndoom, I think you'd want Ability Shield and a Healing teammate, because he's not very bulky and Typhlosion could do a serious number on it during any "Ability down" turns

 

[Vengeance417]

Murder fish boutta pull up:



Chi-Yu @ Shell Bell
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Snarl
- Light Screen
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse

Light Screen + Snarl will deal with the Beads of Ruin weakening the SpDef of your team, then spam Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse. Pair w/ Acid Spray user.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

So I did some calculations and it seems like Roaring Moon and Hydreigon may be able to do in some work, even with Focus Blast. Though you're gonna have to pray his nature isn't a Spec. Atk nature. Anyways, I checked how well they can tank a Focus Blast and here's the results I got.

These are without Snarl's Spec. Atk drop:
0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Roaring Moon: 146-174 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Hydreigon: 158-186 (48.6 - 57.2%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO

And these are with the Spec. Atk drop
-1 0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Roaring Moon: 98-116 (27.9 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 0 SpA Typhlosion Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Hydreigon: 106-126 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 98.8% chance to 3HKO

So yeah. Without a crit and with a neutral nature they can survive 1 Focus Blast (Or in Roaring Moon's case, 2) then use Snarl and weaken it. It's even better for Roaring Moon since Roaring Moon's base Speed is high enough to even outspeed a Speed nature Typhlosion with a neutral nature so if he can land Snarl right off the bat, well just use your imagination.

Of course, we still have absolutely no idea what Typhlosion's gonna do, and it may surprise us, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Personally, I can see these sets working out:


252 Atk/252 Spec Def/6HP
Nature: Adamant
Item: Shell Bell
Tera Dark/Maybe Fairy if those Focus Blasts are becoming scary

Crunch
Snarl
Roost
Dragon Dance


252 Spec Atk/252 Spec Def/6 HP
Nature: Modest
Item and Tera are the same as RR

Snarl
Dark Pulse
Nasty Plot
Sadly, unlike Roaring Moon Hydreigon doesn't get recovery, so if you really want I suppose the last slot could be Rock Tomb so you can outspeed him. Either that or Earth Power to try to aim for the Spec Def drop.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

How do you guys think Baxcalibur will fair? Thermal Exchange makes him immune to burn and fire moves power him up, but unlike Chi Yu, Roaring Moon, and Hydreigon he has no way of weakening special attacks. He does get Rain Dance though.

 

[Krockodile]

Here are some mons that might help break down Typlosion

Candidate 1: Houndoom

Houndoom @ Shell Bell
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl
- Mud-Slap / Rain Dance

What got me concerned is that Typhlosion has Eruption, a move that deals high damage the more HP it has. Since raids bosses have high hp, and that it has Eruption, it can deal heavy damage even to resists.
So, Flash Fire is the first ability that would be best against it, because it doesn't receive any damage from Fire Attacks.
Houndoom was the first option.

With Nasty Plot + Dark Pulse, it can deal heavy damage to Typlosion. Snarl is used to reduce its special attack, whist Mud-slap can be used to off-set its Focus Blast attack.
Only downside is that Houndoom may be frail. However, with Shell Bell it can get the health back. Plus, with Mud Slap, the inaccurate Focus Blast might not hit Houndoom at all.

Candidate 2: Hydregion

Hydreigon @ Shell Bell
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Rain Dance
- Dark Pulse
- Snarl

The set is similar to Houndoom, except Hydregion is more bulkier and isn't immune to Fire Attacks. It is however immune to Typhlosion's Earthquake, something that Houndoom can be vulnerable to. I should mention that when Hydregion is Tera Dark, it loses its resistance to Fire attacks.

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Candidate 3: Skeledirge (DO NOT USE)

Skeledirge @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snarl
- Torch Song
- Slack Off
- Shadow Ball

Depending on the situation, Skeledrige can use Snarl to lower Typlosion's special attack, whilst Torch song can be used to increase its own special attack. Slack Off can be used for recovery, whilst Shadow Ball is used as its primary offensive tool against Typhlosion. I used Tera Dark instead of Tera Ghost in case Typhlosion has Shadow Ball. However, if it doesn't, then Tera Ghost is the better choice.

Edit: I realised that Typhlosion might have Flash Fire. If Skeledrige uses Torch Song against Typhlosion, it will instead increase its own special attack, which it can use its powerful fire attacks like Eruption against your allies.
Unfortunately, with no other way to boost Skeledrige's own special attack, I will have to call this build void.

Candidate 4: Grimmsnarl

Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Assurance/False Surrender
- Spirit Break

This is more of a supportive mon. Light Screen is used to shield everyone from special attacks, whilst Reflect is used for any surprise physical attacks. Since Typhlosion would usually move first, Assurance is a great move against it, since it will always deal double damage when moving last. Spirit Break is used to lower Typhlosion's special attack.

Candidate 5: Arcanine

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Morning Sun
- Snarl
- Crunch
- Agility

Another Bulky sun support. Snarl for special attack drops. Morning Sun for healing, and Crunch to deal good damage against Typhlosion. Agility can be used if it's slower than Typhlosion

I was considering Tyranitar since it is bulky on the special side thanks to Sand Stream. However, the problem is that Sandstorm can only last up to 5 turns (if not using a Smooth Rock as an item), and Typhlosion can use Sunny Day to cancel Sandstorm. It will no longer be able to take Focus Blast.
If Tyranitar teras into Dark, it will lose its benefits from gaining a special defense from Sandstorm, since it is no longer Rock Type. Typhlosion can take advantage of this to use super effective attacks like Focus Blast or Solar Beam to wear it down.

If you guys have any comments about my raid builds for Typhlosion, please let me know.