Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[Ares]

So something that was brought up on the previous page that I want to bring up again for more discussion is:

Kangaskhan for S rank: This thing is a monster and consistently does work whenever I put it on a team. If the opponent doesn't have a normal type resist than Double-Edge 2HKOs pretty much the entire tier bar Weezing. It has amazing utility in dual priority making it a fail safe to fall back on for HO to check scary offensive threats that like to set up. These two things combined together make Kangaskhan S rank for me.

 

[ryan]

"if the opponent doesn't have a Normal-type resist" zzz this is true for every offensive Pokemon in the game. stop.

 

[Teddeh]

"if the opponent doesn't have a Normal-type resist" zzz this is true for every offensive Pokemon in the game. stop.

Well tbh, it has coverage that can deal with this crap. It can run fire punch on hyper offense teams for ferroseed aswell as earthquake, power up punch, drain punch, dual priority. Not to mention I've been trying support kanga recently, that's not even bad either. I think it should definitely be considered, especially since Typhlosion has "fire type resists" on every team in the meta right now.

 

[Ares]

"if the opponent doesn't have a Normal-type resist" zzz this is true for every offensive Pokemon in the game. stop.

Okay, so the few Pokemon which resist Normal-types that actually take next to nothing from the coverage moves are: Steelix, Regirock, Rhydon. The rest of the steel / rock types take enough from EQ / Drain Punch to be considered checks. When I said Normal-type resist I should of said those 3 so zzzzz.

 

[marilli]

Also Rhydon loses to Aqua Tail which is not unheard of. Also I feel Kang's priority moves make it easier to put her on a team than anything as a generic failsafe on top of all the offensive work she puts in.

Oh yeah and Steelix is great though.

 

[ryan]

yea I agree with you guys that it's a good mon and it has ways of getting past its best checks. I was just saying fuck the "teams without normal resists" stuff because teams without normal resists are bad teams.

 

[Punchshroom]

Kanga can check literally every offensive sweeper in the tier (including careless Archeops / variants without Roost), and it is extremely consistent at its job due to its tankiness. It even has use against bulkier teams since it is fast and strong enough to threaten them with those Scrappy Double-Edges. Considering Kangaskhan was S Rank in the previous generation, I can easily see where Mont is going with this suggestion.

C+ to B- or B

I know Zweilous just got moved up, but I think it is still too low. I last talked about CB Zweilous, which has extremely few safe switch-ins in the tier, but low speed and accuracy held it back enough for me to not object to C+. However, Specially Defensive Zweilous is pretty fantastic in the meta right now. It has all the right resistances to Fire, Grass, and Psychic, allowing it to tank a lot of top threats in the meta. Here are some impressive calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exeggutor Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 102-120 (29.3 - 34.4%) -- 6.9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 97-115 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Lilligant Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Zweilous: 151-179 (43.3 - 51.4%) -- 7.4% chance to 2HKO

Zweilous shrugs all of that off, and proceeds to wall them including other Pokemon such as Xatu, Rotom, Mesprit, Ninetales, and Magmortar. The real reason Zweilous is so great at walling these Pokemon is that they have mostly deviated away from using powerful super effective coverage moves for it. Fire-types such as Typhlosion and Magmortar have dropped Focus Blast in favor of Psychic or Ground coverage, while Psychic-types have dropped Dazzling Gleam for the most part, usually opting for Grass and/or Fire coverage to hit bulky things hard. Dragalge and Seismitoad's presence means that Fire-types won't feel truly safe dropping any of their coverage in favor of Focus Blast, meaning Zweilous can more consistently wall them.

Specially Defensive Zweilous doesn't just sit around RestTalking either; it has not one, but two phasing options in Roar and Dragon Tail. Roar isn't affected by Hustle's accuracy, but Dragon Tail means Zweilous doesn't have to run an additional attack in Crunch and can opt for Thunder Wave. Crunch is a pretty great weapon against Psychics regardless, especially Uxie and Xatu which give defensive teams immense trouble. Between Roar / Dragon Tail and Thunder Wave or even simply its Hustled attacks, Zweilous doesn't give many free switch-ins and is not an easy wall to take advantage of.

 

[Pooch13]

is bae, and has become one of my favorite defensive pokemon to use.
Basically, it hard walls a ton of threatening pokemon, including the ever-present Psychic- and Fire-types. It's ability to take multiple hits and beat some of the most threatening wallbreakers, stallbreakers, and sweepers in the meta (such as all variants of Exeggutor, Extrasensory Typhlosion, every common CM sweepers, Stallbreaking Mismagius, Ninetales, among many others), and is just a huge asset for defensive and balanced teams.
It's probably best used in hazard-stacking teams (Garbodor is an excellent partner for it), where it can come in on one of the pokemon it walls and use its phazing moves to rack up damage quickly, which allows it to support sweepers like Gatr so that they can run through weakened teams. It also has great offensive presence for a wall, with its uninvested, Hustle-boosted Crunch having the same power as fully invested, Timid, non-LO Mesprit's Psyshock.
Overall, it's just a great pokemon to use, and should definitely go to at least B-.

I remember suggesting thid thing being a check for Typh a couple of weeks ago and was told it wasnt too common to be considered a check lol smfh.
Anywho, support this too to B- but id argue not to go higher judt because if the usage of this specially defensive set becomes too common fairy coverage and fighting might become as common as they used to be. No argument about anything else said about it, just like i said if it becomes too common it might need to drop again because its not a mon thst is hard to adapt too.

 

[Deej Dy]

I know there's this whole raise Zwelious bandwagon at the moment, but I disagree with the whole raise Zwelious argument personally.
Sure it has dragon typing and can take some special hits from Typhlosion, but I find it's hustle ability unreliable and underwhelming. It basically has 2 roles, one as special wall in which it is outclassed by Dragalge, (which has passive recovery in black sludge and doesn't rely on sleep talk and terribly inaccurate 60% dragon tails, did i mention toxic spikes too?) to phase pokemon. Or it has the nuke role with banded Zwel which basically spams crunch, outrage, and superpower, all with bad accuracy. Does this thing really deserve to be in the ranks of Poliwrath (a better phaser) and Exeggcutor (a better and faster nuke attacker with specs)? Oh and it would be in the ranks of Scyther ;s

I mean I personally think it belongs in D+, but I can concede a C or C- rank, because it is rarely prepared for (if even needed), but a B- rank is pretty ridiculous, I feel it would be the most undeserved raise of any mon in this thread, which is basically why I'm typing this.

On a different note, I could support Kanga raise (and Uxie too) to S, and will likely type something about them soon ;)


EDIT: I have used Zwelious in the past, mostly in BW2 (its best days) when phasing was good without strong spinners and a lack of defog.

 

[Teddeh]

Am I the only one who doesn't think it does the jobs that it advertises? I mean, if i want a fire check, I have hariyama, dragalge, altaria... It doesn't check psychic pokemon, since over 50% of psychics run some type of coverage like dazzling gleam, signal beam... It's not that good. It is about as reliable as sheddy in the way it works, having 80% accurate stab moves, i'm just not a big fan of it moving past C+. No reliable recovery either. Using it on balance involves a fighting weakness, ice weakness, it's most impossible to build around it properly. Especially when the things you're meant to check, you only check them 1/5 of the time (statistically) Not to mention every time I see this pokemon in use, it misses 3/4 of the crunchs or outrages it goes for.
On every defensive spectrum, it's outclassed as a defensive pokemon and it doesn't even check the pokemon it advertises properly since if it ever gets some use, psychics will just resort back to dazzling gleam coverage aswell as being 3 hit ko'd by typh, 2 hit ko'd by specs hyper voice and every other "niche is has". As far as I'm concerned, it checks grass types, fire types and supposedly psychic types. Grass types are also walled by a mixture of ferroseed/altaria (whether they run hp ice or fire), also walled by dragalge (better defensive typing) barring exeggutor but i don't even consider it that common.
I can see 2 pokemon it hard walls, being eggy and ninetails, and unless you have a severe phobia of ninetails and eggy it's a much better idea to run either fire spam checks and grass spam check, in other words outclassed a lot and should stay in C+.

 

[kogaza]

Before we all jump on the zweilous bandwagon, can we look at where we want to put this thing? We're talking B rank here, the same place where pangoro and malamar are two dark types that can do essentially what zweilous does but in a less awkward manner. Of course zweilous has a way better typing than pangoro, but pangoro with a band is only about 20 EVs less than zweilous in attack and can fire off 100% accurate stab crunches and storm throws. Pangoro also doesn't have to rely on hustle to make it strong. It has iron fist which powers up the already strong hammer arm for some massive damage that is only 10% inaccurate. It also has scrappy, albeit quite useless with pangoro being part dark but it does mean nothing can freely switch into an attack. Lastly is has mold breaker which means it can run earthquake to hit things like weezing with EQ for a reliable, 100% accurate 2hko. Now zweilous has an arguably better movepool, but pangoro has everything it needs, most of which at 100% accuracy as mentioned at least 3 times. Although his moves may not be as strong as zweilous, I think he has better abilities, is still much more reliable and can do pretty much everything zweilous can anyway except be some trashy wall mon. I almost fogot about parting shot too which is most useful on a scarf set for "u-turning" out into another mon while lowering a mons attack and special attack, which helps stop things that set up on you and provides a really cool niche. Although this thing is a little outclassed by sawk, it's good enough to be better than zweilous and thus zwei doesn't deserve to be B.

What's also in B is malamar, another dark type that while obviously is not as strong as the little dinosaur, still has a reliable typing and sets that make it hard to beat. There's resttalk (the hardest one to beat imo), scarf and even the plain old lefties three attacks set which has really solid coverage with superpower, night slash and psycho cut and means malamar can run sub or even trick room (slightly meh) as a slightly unpredictable and helpful last move slot. Malamar does not get enough credit as it deserves and if zweilous can be B then this thing should be able to move up.

Now on the wall set, I think it's decent, but slightly sub-par when things like dragalge exists which for the most part outclasses it. The only thing zwei has over it is T-wave and dark typing but has to rely on resttalk which isn't even optimal to run with only an 80% accurate stab and t-wave in the first place. I wouldn't say this set isn't good, but dragalge is already a good enough phazer and has toxic spikes and has a better wall movepool. It of course only half-walls typhlosion, but then again so does zwei since typhlosion can run focus blast.

So on zweilous moving up to B, I have to disagree. Sorry zwei, I love you, but when your two sets are very awkward and unreliable I don't think there is much room for you up in B or even B-. You do have a good typing as well as being able to adequately take care of sub CM uxie and xatu, but you are an unreliable attacker that isn't hard to check (especially with such low speed) and a slightly mediocre wall.

EDIT: Pangoro also gets swords dance. Just sayin'.

ANOTHER EDIT: I realise now we want to move him to B-, but honestly my point still stands. If sycther is B-, then this thing can't be. Also on it being a phazing wall in B-, see: poliwrath, piloswine, etc.

 

[Punchshroom]

I know there's this whole raise Zwelious bandwagon at the moment, but I disagree with the whole raise Zwelious argument personally. Sure it has dragon typing and can take some special hits from Typhlosion, but I find it's hustle ability unreliable and underwhelming. I basically has 2 roles, one as special wall in which it is outclassed by Dragalge, (which has passive recovery in black sludge and doesn't rely on sleep talk and terribly inaccurate 60% dragon tails, did i mention toxic spikes too?) to phase pokemon.

I have compared Zweilous to Dragalge in terms of its walling niche, and Dragalge's popularity is ironically the reason I am proposing a bump for Zweilous. In a meta where the Fire-type mons, such as Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Ninetales are commonly running Psychic / Ground coverage, and the presence of bulky Psychic-type Pokemon in Uxie and Xatu which threaten defensive teams, Zweilous definitely sees uses over Dragalge. Zweilous can also opt for the accurate Roar over the 60% 72% accurate Dragon Tail, and can learn Thunder Wave which Dragalge does not. So no, Zweilous is not utterly outclassed by Dragalge (that 'honor' would go to Sliggoo :/ ).

Or it has the nuke role with banded Zwel which basically spams crunch, outrage, and superpower, all with bad accuracy.

Yeah I'll be fair I kind of (over)hyped this set up, but I feel its value dropped mostly because the meta got faster / more offensive, which puts its speed in a worse light. That said, it still has only very limited switch-ins in the tier (basically only Granbull) and can do some serious damage to bulkier teams despite the inaccuracy. ORAS Panda might give this set a good run for its money though... :P

Does this thing really deserve to be in the ranks of Poliwrath (a better phaser) and Exeggcutor (a better and faster nuke attacker with specs)? Oh and it would be in the ranks of Scyther ;s

Zweilous is very different from Poliwrath in terms of the things it walls (for starters, Psychic-types are more common now and Grass-types are getting more relevant as Gatr checks), and I wouldn't say Exeggutor is 'way better' when its main STAB is resisted by plenty of things which also revenge kill it (plus it also isn't actually faster js). Scyther is seeing discussion of getting a bump for B+ or even A- btw, so comparing it to Scyther is moot.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Am I the only one who doesn't think it does the jobs that it advertises? I mean, if i want a fire check, I have hariyama, dragalge, altaria...

Zweilous checks both Fire-type Pokemon and threatens boosting bulky Psychics in one fell swoop, which is an amazing asset for defensive teams to have; none of those aforementioned Fire checks can do the same, aside from possibly phasing Altaria but a Stealth Rock weakness, slight 4MSS, and shit offensive presence do it little favors.

It doesn't check psychic pokemon, since over 50% of psychics run some type of coverage like dazzling gleam, signal beam... It's not that good. It is about as reliable as sheddy in the way it works, having 80% accurate stab moves, i'm just not a big fan of it moving past C+. No reliable recovery either. Using it on balance involves a fighting weakness, ice weakness, it's most impossible to build around it properly. Especially when the things you're meant to check, you only check them 1/5 of the time (statistically)

I checked the usage stats, Dazzling Gleam Psychics are really, really rare (some of the usage stats don't even show Dazzling Gleam!), and rightfully so since Tomb is gone. Now they commonly favor other coverage moves like HP Fire / Heat Wave + Grass-type coverage to break the bulkier Pokemon of the meta, namely Steel-types and bulky Waters + Grounds. Zweilous can also shrug off Signal Beam with relative ease and threaten a Crunch as well.

On every defensive spectrum, it's outclassed as a defensive pokemon and it doesn't even check the pokemon it advertises properly since if it ever gets some use, psychics will just resort back to dazzling gleam coverage as well as being 3 hit ko'd by typh, 2 hit ko'd by specs hyper voice and every other "niche is has". As far as I'm concerned, it checks grass types, fire types and supposedly psychic types. Grass types are also walled by a mixture of ferroseed/altaria (whether they run hp ice or fire), also walled by dragalge (better defensive typing) barring exeggutor but i don't even consider it that common.
I can see 2 pokemon it hard walls, being eggy and ninetails, and unless you have a severe phobia of ninetails and eggy it's a much better idea to run either fire spam checks and grass spam check, in other words outclassed a lot and should stay in C+.

There is nothing wrong with opting to raise Zweilous now since the meta is much less prepared for Zweilous when compared to bulkier walls, and there is no guarantee that the Psychic-types will shift their focus to Dazzling Gleam that badly since Signal Beam helps them against fellow Psychics while still hitting Dark-types. Typhlosion needs 3 full powered Eruptions and Stealth Rock damage to be able to 3HKO Zwei. I won't say Dragalge's defensive typing is bad, but Zweilous's defensive typing is handy in the current meta right now. Zweilous also walls SubCM Uxie and Xatu alongside Eggy and Ninetales (and also non-Focus Blast Typh and Mortar), all of which can threaten bulkier teams. Being able to cover them all simultaneously is undeniably useful for defensive teams, and Zweilous is pretty good at that atm. The "two-mon core doing a more effective job than a lackluster Pokemon doing both" doesn't really work on Zweilous since it is decent enough on its own, and apparently is enough to place the otherwise completely eclipsed Prinplup above the D Ranks >_>

Conclusion: SpD Zweilous has niches over Dragalge in that it both responds to some of the tier's most threatening Pokemon to bulkier teams that Dragalge cannot, namely Fire-types with anti-Dragalge / -Yama coverage as well as Psychic-types; it is also feeding off the fact that people are running less coverage moves for it, making it more effective as a result. It can drop back down if people start switching back to 'Zweilous coverage', but I don't see that happening in a hurry since the targets for the present coverage moves are (and likely still will be) more relevant than Zweilous.

 

[Disjunction]

I've been supporting

--> S for a while now so of course I'm going to support it now. Just going to quote what I said earlier because there's not much else I could say on the issue

S rank
I would say Uxie has enough unique and important niches in the current meta to warrant this prestigious position. It has a set for just about any team archetype out there and no other mon can really pull them off as well as Uxie does. Some notable sets include

• Anti-lead Uxie with Imprison (a little gimmick, but a relevant one nonetheless)
• Physically defensive Rocks Uxie (one of the few rockers in the tier that can handle many different types of offensive pressure at once to lay down rocks)
• Bulky CM (does it differently than Mushy as it's waaay faster)
• Weather lead with Memento (most weather teams default instantly to Uxie for its ability to set up weather, rocks, and keep up momentum with Memento. Nearly unrivaled in its ability to do this.)
• Fast Dual Screens support (best screener in the tier due to Memento being able to keep momentum)

Outside of its great support versatility, it's one of the bulkiest mons in the entire tier as it cannot be OHKO'd outside of boosting moves and crits.

252 SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 259-306 (73.1 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Black Glasses Liepard Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 156-186 (44 - 52.5%) -- 18% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Uxie: 179-213 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Rotom Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Uxie: 276-326 (77.9 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This thing eats hits all day. Not to mention that's all without any defensive investment. The best part of Uxie is that there is no best defensive spread for it, you can just tailor it to take whatever hit you need it to on your team. Not only that, but it sports one of the most impressive support movepools in the tier (U-turn, Knock Off, Stealth Rock, Yawn, Thunder Wave, Dual Screens, Memento, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Trick, and Imprison) and a pretty nice offensive movepool so you can pick what you want and don't want to wall your sub cm set (stuff like Giga Drain, Dazzling Gleam, and T-bolt).

Overall, Uxie's a fantastic mon in the meta right now and, in my opinion, is a clear candidate for S rank.

As for

--> S, I agree completely. It has more sets then what people give it credit for (Silk Scarf, Sub Punch, Defensive, AV) and is an incredibly splashable mon that works as a great glue for any type of offensive team. Scrappy STAB Fake Outs are beyond useful and this thing has little to no resists in the tier. Any resists it does have get beaten by any one of its coverage moves (I've been running Fire Punch kanga on one of my latest teams because I'm tired of giving Shedinjas and Ferroseeds free switch-ins (Sir Kay 9 )). It's one of those mons that's hard to justify NOT using on a team.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

I think Barbaracle should be dropped to C+. It is, putting it flatly, bad, speaking as someone who has been trying like forever to like it. It has a hard time setting up a Shell Smash because it has a lot of common weaknesses and is pretty slow. Furthermore, Barbaracle absolutely needs to set up in order to be useful. Without a boost, Barbaracle is slow and is basically a worse Kabutops. Barbaracle also has enormous 4MSS and even item syndrome. In other words, it really wishes it could run three items and six moves. It needs Shell Smash and its STABs to be useful, and it has to choose in its last moveslot between Poison Jab, Cross Chop, or Grass Knot. Depending on what it doesn't run, Barbaracle can easily be stopped by some common Pokemon such as Ferroseed, Seismitoad, Leafeon, etc. It also has to choose between Lum Berry, Life Orb, and White Herb, and again, it has major weak points depending on what it doesn't run. If it doesn't run Lum Berry, paralysis and burn screw it over. If it doesn't run a Life Orb, it's a bit lacking in power. And if it doesn't run White Herb, it loses its bulk and is much easier to take down. The worst thing about Barbaracle is that it relies so much on inaccurate moves. Razor Shell, Stone Edge, and Cross Chop are all incredibly inaccurate and Barbaracle misses when it really needs to hit, and due to Shell Smash's defense drops+bad defensive typing, if Barbaracle doesn't land a hit, it dies.

Moreover, Barbaracle faces enormous competition from Kabutops and Carracosta. Carracosta has greater physical bulk than Barbaracle, has two solid abilities that allow easier setup, and most importantly, has priority in Aqua Jet (and can also run Ice Beam for fun). Kabutops has Aqua Jet, better initial Speed, and Rapid Spin. Thanks to the latter having Rapid Spin+both having priority Aqua Jet, these two also have better utility than Barbaracle even without setting up. Kabutops especially does not need to set up at all to be useful. I also find things like Slurpuff to be far better wincons than Barbaracle (because Slurpuff is almost invincible after it sets up, and it's versatile too). All in all, I think Barbaracle is pretty niche and needs to be lowered to C+.

I also support Kanga to S, although I'm really iffy about Uxie to S because it's weak and faces competition from Mesprit as a Psychic-type who is quite a bit better than Uxie, wouldn't be opposed I guess though.

Also Gogoat could move up to somewhere in C because its SubBU set is not bad and is pretty decent, has okay coverage and takes hits superbly, so it could use a bump to somewhere in the C's, C/C+ imo, definitely not D lol.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[watashi]

i dont think barbaracle should be dropped. the advantage it has over other shell smashers is that it can outspeed pretty much every choice scarfer. it's decently powerful too, and actually fares better versus ferroseed and seismitoad than kabutops and carracosta with tough claws cross chop. most of the problems you listed with it also apply to kabutops and carracosta so your comparison is invalid.

 

[kogaza]

Woops, sent that by mistake... Anyway, was gonna say the problem with carracosta is that even after a shell smash it can't outspeed sceptile or scarf rotom... Or most scarfers for that matter. It also means you have to run jolly nature and sacrifice power. Aqua jet will only get you so far, but if you have no speed you essentially get beat by some common things in the tier. Like flcl said, that's another reason why barbaracle has some good niches over carra.

 

[eden]

I propose moving Boufflant upto A only because SD Sub Boufflant turns Vivillion and Vileplume into set up fodder. Seriously....formula to win is,Pursuit Trap+SD Boufflant,clean house,your literal wincon is get rid of ghosts which isn too hard to do considering how frail ghosts are. Relevant ghosts? Rotom/Haunter/Mismagius/Gourgeist. Rotom gets bopped by Pursuit,Haunter gets wrecked by Liepard with whom it has to play Knock Off/Pursuit mindgames if it wants to be safe,non Colbur-Mismagius gets wrecked,Gourgeist is a toughie...but I'm sure Knock Off stings. Even Ferroseed and stuff are good setup fodder.

 

[Evan.]

that doesn't mean that bouffalant should be A-Rank. Defensive teams and most of the mons it sets up on are a lot less common now, and it's too slow to do anything relevant against offense. It has a good niche as a bulky set-up sweeper but it shouldn't be any higher than B imo

 

[eden]

I never said S man :(. I did say A...would a replay help get across what I'm trying to say in terms of structure?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-161841861 , SD Boufflant doesn't exactly do much work here tho :(

 

[Evan.]

I never said S man :(. I did say A...would a replay help get across what I'm trying to say in terms of structure?
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-161841861 , SD Boufflant doesn't exactly do much work here tho :(

I don't think you realize my point. I said that SubSD bouff is too slow to do anything relevant against offense, yet you show me a replay against a stall team. I didn't say that it sucked against defensive teams (like the ones queen runs), it has that niche which is why it's B-Rank.

 

[eden]

ah...sorry man >_<. Against Balanced tho its pretty decent too thno? It turn Ferroseed/Vileplume/Vivillion into setup fodder(the last one is a little out of place fair enough),oh wait it also hard checks Lilligant because of Herbivore and the Sp.Def investment so I guess that kind of matters? B -> B+ maybe it does play some role against even Balance/Offense in being able to block Vileplume/Lilligant/Vivillion? js. Fair enough that it shouldn't be A because against offense usually I don't get SD up..and because I'm specially defensive I can't exactly dent anything on the switch. Do get your point now tho.

 

[Brawlfest]

Murkrow from Unlisted -> C / C+
I've been using Murkrow quite a bit recently, and it's straight up a solid mon. It is by no means a metagame defining pokemon, but it surely shouldn't go unlisted. As a Calm Mind User, it can easily beat stuff like CM Xatu or Uxie 1v1, especially with Taunt / Sub, and is surprisingly bulky. With a couple of CMs under its belt it can easily run through teams, and Stall really appreciates it. Oh and MixKrow is just straight up cool.

Oh and it smashes Plume and Lilli who are annoying for a lotta stall teams (given they used their sleep on sumting else), Taunt + CM is too good. Also it eats Aladyyn for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

 

[Evan.]

btw are we even doing updates with ORAS coming out so soon?

 

[Ares]

btw are we even doing updates with ORAS coming out so soon?

One will be happening soon, and then possibly one more before ORAS comes out.

 

[eden]

Murkrow for B; its one of the only hard stops to CM Xatu/Uxi there is and that alone makes me rate it well. Maybe it'd go well on a stall team as an answer to said said stall-breakers?