Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[jake]

art by NotHyunation i think
NU VIABILITY RANKING

Welcome to the official NU Viability Ranking thread. If you've visited the Viability Ranking thread for any other tier, you should be familiar with the concept of this thread - we will organize the Pokemon in our tier into ranks, varying on how good they are. You are encouraged to post your thoughts on where Pokemon should be ranked. Please note that each section is going to be in alphabetical order.

We currently have no "council" except for myself, DTC, and Raseri - the people who have proven to be consistently good, quality posters in this thread (even those with differing opinions from the masses!) will be considered to help make the final calls.

In order to cut down on shitposting, please do not bandwagon posts. Unless you have new or different experiences to share, you are defending a nomination, or if the nomination has not been discussed for ~3 days, try to avoid repeating the same information someone else said before you.

LAST UPDATE: November 21st 2014​

---

Preliminary NU Rankings

S Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.​

S

Feraligatr

Kangaskhan

Mesprit

Typhlosion

Uxie
​

A Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame, but require some support or have some flaws that prevents them from doing this consistently. Supporting Pokemon in this rank may give opponents free turns or cannot create free turns easily themselves, but can still do their job most of the time.

A+

Archeops

Hariyama

Mismagius

Pyroar

Samurott

Sceptile

Slurpuff

Xatu

A

Garbodor

Liepard

Lilligant

Rhydon

Rotom

Scyther

Seismitoad

A-

Audino

Crustle

Cryogonal

Dragalge

Exeggutor

Ferroseed

Gorebyss

Gurdurr

Jynx

Kabutops

Klinklang

Ludicolo

Musharna

Sawk​

B Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame, but can properly fulfill a given offensive/defensive niche. Support Pokemon in this category have flaws that prevent them from doing their job or are setup bait for dangerous sweepers. Pokemon who are partially outperformed by a Pokemon in A or S Rank, but are otherwise very dangerous, may also fall into this category.​

B+

Cacturne

Carracosta

Magmortar

Ninetales

Pangoro

Pawniard

Qwilfish

Rotom-Fan

Sneasel

Steelix

Tangela

Tauros

Vileplume

Vivillon

Weezing

Zangoose

B

Accelgor

Bouffalant

Flareon

Golurk

Lanturn

Leafeon

Malamar

Primeape

Swellow

B-

Barbaracle

Camerupt

Electivire

Haunter

Kadabra

Lickilicky

Pelipper

Piloswine

Poliwrath

Probopass

Roselia

Rotom-Frost

Sandslash

Swanna

Togetic

Torterra​

C Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.​

C+

Articuno

Basculin

Chatot

Cradily

Golem

Gourgeist-S

Gourgeist-XL

Granbull

Grumpig

Kecleon

Kricketune

Lampent

Linoone

Meowstic-M

Prinplup

Quilladin

Rampardos

Regirock

Simipour

Stunfisk

Victreebel

Vullaby

Zweilous


C

Altaria

Beheeyem

Carbink

Ditto

Fraxure

Frogadier

Gogoat

Leavanny

Marowak

Mr. Mime

Muk

Raichu

Regice

Sawsbuck

Serperior

Ursaring

C-

Arbok

Ariados

Aurorus

Delibird

Dodrio

Drifblim

Dusknoir

Floatzel

Heatmor

Hippopotas

Kingler

Luxray

Mantine

Masquerain

Mightyena

Miltank

Ninjask

Shedinja

Simisear

Stoutland

Swoobat

Volbeat

Zebstrika​

D Rank:
Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current metagame, but have very noticeable flaws that make them more trouble than they're worth the majority of the time. These Pokemon are, for the most part, daft to use.​

D+

Avalugg

Butterfree

Dragonair

Frillish

Glaceon

Huntail

Lopunny

Metang

Misdreavus

Monferno

Politoed

Purugly

Rapidash

Scraggy

Simisage

Sliggoo

Torkoal

Wigglytuff

Yanma​

D

Bastiodon

Duosion

Dusclops

Golduck

Lapras

Lumineon

Murkrow

Relicanth

Throh

D-

Armaldo

Bibarel

Electabuzz

Electrode

Furfrou

Gigalith

Hypno

Jumpluff

Noctowl

Octillery

Persian​

E Rank:
E is for "Everything Else". You should probably not be using Pokemon in this rank.

...everything else. ​

 

[jake]

This list is NOT FINAL. There are probably missing Pokemon, and there are a number of Pokemon who most people will think are miles away from where they should be. Some of the ranks are also full to the brim, and others a bit lacking. That's okay, for now. We'll deal with it as the metagame evolves. (Also, we're trying to include all competitively viable Pokemon for the time being - no other metagame has to do this, but we're going to try!)

Don't bitch if your favorite Pokemon is not where you think it should be - perhaps there's a good reason. Discuss intelligently, don't just bitch.

Support your argument. If you do not know how to support your argument without saying "but this set won me sooo many games on the ladder" or "I beat this Pokemon on the ladder all the time" without actual comprehensive reasoning, you should not be posting. I will delete posts that are inane or contain no reasoning.

Merry posting!

 

[skies]

Yes, thanks for posting this! One thing I'd like to change of this is

• 
  A Rank ----> A+ Rank

Now I know that Archeops has a shitty ability, paper thin defenses, and also a Stealth Rock weakness, however, it's very potent offensively and has a sky high Attack stat of 140, backed by a super Speedy 110 Base Speed. It also has a wide array of moves, including Stone Edge, Acrobatics, Sky Attack, Earthquake, Knock Off, and U-turn, amongst other things. It also has access to Roost to increase longevity and relieve Defeatist. It can choose from many sets, including Sky Attack, Substitute, No Item Acrobatics, and even some mixed sets with moves like Heat Wave. Archeops is hard to switch into, the most reliable ones being Physically Defensive Rhydon (which is beaten by a combination of Knock Off + Earthquake + Earthquake), there's probably more but that was the first thing that popped to my mind. Archeops is a very good Pokemon in general and can perform equally as well as Feraligar, and better than Spiritomb.


(ooh first! :))

 

[Shuckleking87]

I know this was most likely passed over on accident, but Combusken --> B. With speed boost and baton pass this generation, is able to pass speed and, with eviolite or focus sash (though I go eviolite), a swords dance to something like bouffalant, feraligatr, klinklang, anything really. Also has ok stab moves to use in flare blitz, fire punch, skyuppercut etc to sweep on its own.

EDIT: Sorry, also Roselia --> B-/C+. With knock off boom, probably lost a little footing as a toxic spikes/ spikes setter, but best specially defensive spiker for stall/any teams. With sleep powder/spikes legality, also able to support team even further. Have it slightly lower than accelgor or qwilfish because accelgor as an easier time setting up 2 quick layers of spikes, while qwilfish provides intimidate support. But Roselia is still a great option.

EDIT 2: I guess I should just say everything at once lol. But I do love my NFE's. Magneton -->A-/B+. This thing is just sooooo strong. Putting a choice specs on it, plus an analytic boost if the current poke switches, and its pretty much a dead poke. This happens to me all the time facing it and using it. Eviolite is great as steel electric is pretty good defensive typing (screw overheat fletchinder though), and it's also a great scarfer. Can be used to trap steels if you are really afraid of klinklang or steelix but probably not worth it as analytic is so strong. It might be a little slow for A- rank, but it is truly a force to be reckoned with.

Misdreavus--> D. Definitely usable and more bulkier than mismaguis, but knock off buff really hurts it, and it a little overwhelmed by alot stronger pokes than 5th gen nu. Can still work though

EDIT 87: Flareon-->C. Got a big boon as it finally got flare blitz this gen. Toxic orb flareon is meh imo, I'd rather use zangoose, swellow or ursaring or tauros, or even combusken. But it's still ok special defensive wall, I guess? Don't feel like this is any good but better than D rank

EDIT: DD Fraxure, sleep talk Dragonair, LO Frogadier, sash kadabra, Piloswine (maybe B-), physically defensive Quiladin, special defensive Zweilous -->C
Duosion, electabuzz, Sliggoo -->D. Other eviolites are ok but these are all (somewhat)viable options. Screw Wartortle and Yanma to C imo

 

[The Shellder Smuggler]

I'm loving the list so far.

I'm going to nominate:

A- Rank -> A Rank

Zangoose is very underrated at the moment, it has an awesome ability in the form of Toxic Boost, and a sky high attack stat, as well as a decent speed stat. It can OHKO many Pokemon at the moment, including offensive Sigiliyph with Facade, can use Knock Off for utility, and has Close Combat for good coverage. It has Quick Attack as priority, and gets rid of most of the threats it faces. It OHKOs many A and A+ Pokemon, it can OHKO Feraligatr with Facade, OHKO offensive Sigilyph if it runs a neutral Speed nature, and OHKOs Shiftry with CC. It doesn't give a shit about Spiritomb since it will be poisoned most of the time, and then 2HKOs with Knock Off. It only faces trouble from Rhydon, who OHKOs with EQ. Otherwise, Zangoose is a good Pokemon that is a threat on most teams, and basically threatens other A and A+ Pokemon, as well as Sigilyph.

 

[tennisace]

Yes, thanks for posting this! One thing I'd like to change of this is

• 
  A Rank ----> A+ Rank

Now I know that Archeops has a shitty ability, paper thin defenses, and also a Stealth Rock weakness, however, it's very potent offensively and has a sky high Attack stat of 140, backed by a super Speedy 110 Base Speed. It also has a wide array of moves, including Stone Edge, Acrobatics, Sky Attack, Earthquake, Knock Off, and U-turn, amongst other things. It also has access to Roost to increase longevity and relieve Defeatist. It can choose from many sets, including Sky Attack, Substitute, No Item Acrobatics, and even some mixed sets with moves like Heat Wave. Archeops is hard to switch into, the most reliable ones being Physically Defensive Rhydon (which is beaten by a combination of Knock Off + Earthquake + Earthquake), there's probably more but that was the first thing that popped to my mind. Archeops is a very good Pokemon in general and can perform equally as well as Feraligar, and better than Spiritomb.


(ooh first! :))

the issue with these types of arguments is that archeops would love to run a set of stone edge / acrobatics / sky attack / earthquake / knock off / u-turn / substitute / heat wave / earth power / hp grass / roost / taunt / defog with sitrus berry and life orb but can't for very obvious reasons. the big thing with archeops is that yes, it is extremely dangerous if you don't know what set it is. however once you figure it out, you can check it a lot easier. also physically defensive rhydon is not beaten by knock off + 2 earthquakes because barring a miss, archeops either dies or is heavily maimed by rock blast. A-rank is a really good place for it.

i'd almost suggest moving seismitoad to a+ as it's an excellent catch-all check for like half the metagame and can reliably set up SR (water is a better immunity than electric in this metagame). a-rank is fine for right now, when/if sigilyph leaves a lot of things are prolly gonna get a bump up or so.

edit: realized toader is immune to electric too but i was referring to rhydon only being immune to electric

 

[Evan.]

I would like to propose Barbaracle ----> A-/A Rank. Barbaracle is an amazing SS sweeper due to it's great attack, decent bulk and blistering 68 speed for a shell smasher. What makes Barbaracle so scary is that after a smash it is faster than every relevant scarfer in the tier. If Jolly, after a smash it hits 516 speed, outspeeding base 106 scarfers such as Pyroar by 3 points. Not to mention it is only walled by Toad and Poliwrath (if you lack aerial ace). Overall, all it takes is a shell smash from Barbaracle to take over mid-to-late game which Is why I think it should be at least A- Rank if not A Rank

 

[Lord Alphose]

Mismagius
B+ ---> A-

B is for Pokemon that "cannot sweep through or wall significant portions of the metagame." Frankly, I've found that Misdreavus is entirely capable of sweeping through a very significant portion of the tier. If it can get one Nasty Plot up, its a serious threat, but even without, it can take out a lot of Pokemon. It has a high Special Attack and Speed, which make it more of a threat. It has Shadow Ball and Dazzling Gleam, and then Energy Ball, Psychic, and Thunderbolt, or Dark Pulse if the increased coverage is needed. It can trick Choice items onto opponents to screw them up, it can Will-O-Wisp some of the tier's more serious threats, it can taunt hazard setters or setup sweepers, it can even memento to allow other Pokemon to set up. Given all of this, it has multiple potential roles in the metagame on top of its role as a setup sweeper.

I'm loving the list so far.

I'm going to nominate:

A- Rank -> A Rank

Zangoose is very underrated at the moment, it has an awesome ability in the form of Toxic Boost, and a sky high attack stat, as well as a decent speed stat. It can OHKO many Pokemon at the moment, including offensive Sigiliyph with Facade, can use Knock Off for utility, and has Close Combat for good coverage. It has Quick Attack as priority, and gets rid of most of the threats it faces. It OHKOs many A and A+ Pokemon, it can OHKO Feraligatr with Facade, OHKO offensive Sigilyph if it runs a neutral Speed nature, and OHKOs Shiftry with CC. It doesn't give a shit about Spiritomb since it will be poisoned most of the time, and then 2HKOs with Knock Off. It only faces trouble from Rhydon, who OHKOs with EQ. Otherwise, Zangoose is a good Pokemon that is a threat on most teams, and basically threatens other A and A+ Pokemon, as well as Sigilyph.

The problem with Zangoose is obvious: its Speed. while it's not horribly slow, it's certainly not fast enough to be as much of a threat as most people would like it to be. I don't think it should move up since it lacking speed is just too much of a hindrance without excessive support.

 

[Palpitoad707]

I would like to nominate Poliwrath to B-/B Rank. I'm kind of surprised it's in C rank, to be honest. I've found Poliwrath to be an incredible Pokemon. It can run numerous sets, such as being a phazer and a SubPunch user, and it can fit on a variety of team types, such as stall and offense. It also easily counters type tier threats such as Ferligatr and Barbaracle. An immunity to water is also nice, in a tier where water is a pretty good type. However, it does have its faults, mainly its annoying weaknesses to Psychic, Flying, and Electric. But still, I feel that it needs to move up.

 

[Kreepy guy]

I suggest Hariyama -----> B/B+ Rank

Hariyama Has access to great abilities that allow it to provide great boosted damage with guts, or take a more tanky approach with Thick Fat. Assault vest is also a great pair due to it being able to take special hits to match its base 144 HP, while not greatly limiting its movepool.
Calcs:
(+2 252+ SpA Gorebyss Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 295-348 (59.9 - 70.7%))
(252+ SpA Mesprit Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 282-332 (57.3 - 67.4%))

Rarely does anything like to switch a stab based 120 Close Combat, and most psychic/ghost types that can risk being hit by a knock off on the switch in. Bullet punch provides priority that can be nifty in certain situations. Hariyama is definitely one of the stronger physical attackers in the tier and im surprised its default at C rank.

 

[Expulso]

Hey Zebraiken, this is an excellent and very useful list! However, I do have one suggestion.

Rotom-N: B --> B+ / A-

With excellent offensive, defensive and supportive capabilities, Rotom-N is a major threat. It can run a plethora of sets effectively, including but not limited to Choice Scarf, SubSplit, Defensive, and Pivot sets. Its unique typing can make it an excellent check to many common Pokemon, such as Seismitoad (if running HP Grass, which all offensive sets really should) Vivillon, Fletchinder, Archeops, and really any Flying-type. This brings me to my next point: Rotom-N is excellent on Sticky Web teams. It is a very capable spinblocker, and can also beat many Flying-types and Levitators that can circumvent Sticky Web's effects, making it a quite valuable tool. You'd be surprised at how bulky it gets with (Special / Physical; pick one, though Physical is more optimal) Defense investment; it's like the Rotom-Wash of NU!

Now you may be asking yourself something along the lines of, "Dude, Expulso, why isn't this sick Pokemon A or A+? It sounds so gnarly in this meta, bro!" Well, it does have a few flaws holding it back from excellence. First, it loses to some very prevalent Pokemon in this meta; Shiftry, Spiritomb, and Liepard can beat it, though all but CroTomb won't appreciate a Will-O-Wisp on the switch! Furthermore, the prevalence of Knock Off leaves it unable to counter many prominent Pokemon as effectively as it would like; Gurdurr, Zangoose, Sawk (also Mold Breaker EQ!) and more have a shot at getting past it now.

In closing, Rotom-N is a very good Pokemon in the current meta. It's inimitable ability to function under any playstyle is wonderful; it shines especially bright on Sticky Web and more Defensive teams. It can heavily dent a large potion of the meta, burn valuable Physical attackers, ravage teams from begun a Substitute, and much more. While slightly held back by the prevalence of Knock Off and Dark-types, this Pokemon is not to be underestimated, and does not deserve to linger in the depths of B rank.

TL;DR: Rotom-N good. Many different sets. B+ / A- please.

 

[soulgazer]

Raseri for E

Articuno C -> C+ : Something I forgot to talk about while I was helping you out with the list. Articuno is literally the definition of the C rank ; Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy. Articuno sits in a decent speed tier, tying with Sawk and outspeeding the threatening Pokemon between 70 and 85 such as Feraligatr, Magmortar, Shiftry, Seismitoad, and more. With its enormous bulk, reliable recovery, and Pressure, Articuno can easily stall out the opponent's Pokemon with SubRoost and Toxic. Articuno can also go to the offensive route with Hurricane and Freeze-Dry (only leaves Articuno walled by Steel-types, which can be covered quite easily in a metagame where Water- and Fire-types are everywhere). Unfortunately for it, it has a really bad defensive typing and will most of the time never be able to help synergy wise, which means it will always rely on its sheer bulk to take hits. It also has a crippling 4x Stealth Rock weakness, and while it doesn't prevent it to come in and use Substitute against an opponent that can't break it, is enough to stop it to do its job as often as you would want it to.

I also think Haunter should go up to B-, but its kinda frail and would need the metagame to be a bit slower to truly shine so I guess it can stay there =/ .bitching

 

[jake]

Shuckleking87 - NFEs were the biggest list of Pokemon missing, since I worked off of the Showdown NU list (which doesn't show NFE Pokemon). Thanks for including so many of 'em!

@ Everyone else, I'll be heading to bed soon but I'm gonna read through these posts and discuss all of these posts with ya tomorrow. :]

 

[Chronic Smash]

I would to nominate two pokemon:

1) I would like to nominamte Vivillon to A- Rank

Why? Vivillon is just like a freaking beast. It has a great ability in CompoundEyes which makes moves like Sleep Powder and Hurricane actually reliable. You Sleep Powder a non-grass type and you can start setting up as they switch or if they bank on the turn 1 wake up (something a good player would never do). The main thing about this guy, is not only the limitless amount of patterns it gets in-game, but the fact Hurricane gets buffed to 91% accuracy I believe, and the fact it gets stab make Hurricane pretty damn powerful OHKOing pretty much anything weak to it, and even stuff that resists it, risks being confused or being 2HKOed. It mainly shines in mid-late game when stuff is worn down, and this definitely goes well with rock support.

Some calcs:

+1 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 183-216 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- 82% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Spiritomb: 157-186 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ SpA Vivillon Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Togetic: 108-127 (34.3 - 40.4%) -- 42.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Vivillon can 2HKO some of the best special walls in NU at +1 and it can use them as complete and total set-up bait. Once it gets a couple of boost, and you don't have a steel type on your team, consider yourself done for.

2) I would like to nominate Golem to B/B+ Rank

Why? Golem got a lot of new toys this gen. It's attack being buffed to 120, a nice Physical movepool with access to Sucker Punch, access to Rock Polish to boost his mediocre speed to decent levels. And the main new toy it got is: Weakness Policy. For the ones that don't know what Weakness Policy is, it doubles both of your attack stats. if you get hit for Super-effective damage. You guys know how strong this, factoring the ability Sturdy, which makes Golem live a hit that would normally OHKO it with 1 HP, as long as you haven't taken any damage, get off Rock Polish and pretty much sweep entire teams that are unprepared to deal with this guy. After +2 Attack you pretty much 2HKO or even OHKO anything that doesn't resist your attacks, even if they do resist, they don't take it too well. Just watch out for Weezings!

Some calcs:

+2 252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 292-345 (70.5 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hariyama: 511-603 (103.8 - 122.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Golem Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Steelix: 294-348 (83 - 98.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Golem at +2 can pretty 2HKO or OHKO things that don't resist it's Earthquakes, this thing is definitely good if you give it Rocks and Sticky Web support. And it's base defense is reall high at 130, it can take neutral physical hits with relative ease. Golem is underrated imo, give him a try and you won't regret it. :D

 

[Honko]

Primeape: C => B. Obviously faces competition with Sawk, who has the clear advantage in power and coverage and is therefore a much better wallbreaker. It's still fairly powerful with CB or LO though, and there are lots of important Pokemon sitting between 85 and 95 Speed that Primeape enjoys outspeeding, like Zangoose, Vivillon, Lilligant, Kangaskhan, and tying with Jynx. Scarf outspeeds +1 Vivillon/Lilligant and +2 Barbaracle/Omastar as well which is cool. And of course it has U-turn which is one of the best moves in the game, and it fits easily with other VoltTurners like Magneton, Rotom-*, and Uxie. It's not a meta-defining threat like Sawk but it's a solid offensive Pokemon that certainly isn't completely eclipsed, so I think it belongs somewhere in the B ranks.

Ditto: C => B. Fun and effective Pokemon in this meta with lots of Shell Smashers and other boosting sweepers. I haven't had a match yet where it didn't accomplish something good, even against less offensive teams where there weren't any opportunities to steal a sweep. I'd put it up there as one of the better revenge killers in the tier, so again somewhere in B rank seems right for it.

Magneton: A-. There are plenty of good Electric immunes so it's not quite click Volt Switch and win, but it's also fairly easy to predict those counters switching in, and one hit from Specs HP Grass will severely cripple or KO all of them. After that, this thing basically gets a KO any time it comes in. Also a great counter to things like Fletchinder and Guts Swellow.

 

[Assassin Rogue]

Vileplume: B =>A.Vileplume is a fantastic defensive wall,it walls most of physical threats, and some special threats named:DD
Feraligatr, Sawk, Primeape, Shiftry, Granbull, Poliwrath, Liepard, Gurrdurr, Physical Samurott, Sceptile, Hariyama, Kangaskhan, Kecleon and some more. It can switch on to water/rocks(while shell smashing), ground/rock, not taking much damage and threaten them to switch out or else they get OHKOed by gigadrain, It can single handedly take out teams, if one is not prepared for it! Its ability effect spore, can save your team get swept, or cripple opponents pokemon. Pokemon with weak defences take a ton from its unEv'ed stabs. Its weaknessess, are easily covered by using proper support .It walls a significant portion of Meta,so i think it belongs to A rank.

Calcs:
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 144-171 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 186-219 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 247-292 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 189-223 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 253-298 (71.4 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Its a great answer to Shellsmashers bar omastar, switch on an obvious Smash, take an attack,and OHKO with Gigadrain. :D

 

[Punchshroom]

Vileplume: B =>A.Vileplume is a fantastic defensive wall,it walls most of physical threats, and some special threats named:DD
Feraligatr, Sawk, Primeape, Shiftry, Granbull, Poliwrath, Liepard, Gurrdurr, Physical Samurott, Sceptile, Hariyama, Kangaskhan, Kecleon and some more. It can switch on to water/rocks(while shell smashing), ground/rock, not taking much damage and threaten them to switch out or else they get OHKOed by gigadrain, It can single handedly take out teams, if one is not prepared for it! Its ability effect spore, can save your team get swept, or cripple opponents pokemon. Pokemon with weak defences take a ton from its unEv'ed stabs. Its weaknessess, are easily covered by using proper support .It walls a significant portion of Meta,so i think it belongs to A rank.

Calcs:
252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 144-171 (40.6 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 186-219 (52.5 - 61.8%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Barbaracle Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 247-292 (69.7 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 189-223 (53.3 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 253-298 (71.4 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Its a great answer to Shellsmashers bar omastar, switch on an obvious Smash, take an attack,and OHKO with Gigadrain. :D

You know I looked at Vileplume's placing on the Ranks and...I can't actually say I disagree too much.

Vileplume does have the bulk, typing, recovery, support options, and offensive presence to be a highly successful wall. It is one of the best Fighting-type responses in the tier, taking piddly from anything bar boosted Ice Punch, and is a great answer to the physical Water-types of the tier or even most physical attackers in general, as well as Grass-types such as mixed Shiftry, Sceptile, and Lilligant. It has the Powders to deter a good amount of switch-ins, and Aromatherapy to help support the team. However, I see most of these traits in Musharna, a fellow (solid?) B Rank Pokemon, which leads me to believe Vileplume isn't inherently that much greater than it as a whole.

What holds Plume back atm are its slight 4MSS and multitude of weaknesses. Plume does (usually) have one free moveslot, but there are so many options Plume would otherwise want: Sleep Powder can immobilise one (but only one) problematic foe, Stun Spore cripples them indefinitely but doesn't affect Electrics (specifically Magneton), Hidden Power (threat-specific), and Aromatherapy (good team support, but is passive). It really wants a Powder + Aromatherapy + dual STABs + recovery (obviously) to effectively stand up to the meta's threats, but alas. Also, the sheer number of NU threats can keep Plume on its toes, which may prevent it from keeping good pressure on the opponent while keeping itself healthy. Threats like Typhlosion, Magmortar, Pyroar, Magneton, Dragalge, Vivillon, Mismagius, Archeops, Sigilyph, Mesprit, Jynx, etc... are a shitton of Pokes you do not want to give free turns to; Plume could smack them on the switch for good damage, but it won't KO them, and as a result may not be able to heal enough to handle shit.

That said, Effect Spore cuts Plume a break by screwing over physical attackers without the need to attack, giving it the chance to stay healthy and improve its effectiveness. I can see a move to B+/A-, but A seems to be pushing it imo.

 

[termi]

What's up with the rankings right here, when comparing it to the viability rankings of other tiers the A-rank is extremely small, I'm not sure if wallbreakers as threatening as Magmortar deserve to be only B-rank, for example. Please give some clarification. Fgts.

Ok, suggesting one change because I have enough experience with this mon imo and it just shouldn't be this low: Accelgor.

Accelgor should be A- at the very least, it's by far the best HO Spikes lead the meta has to offer, easily getting off 2 layers of Spikes vs pretty much anything, while being able to annoy the opponent with Encore, giving him even more free turns to set up Spikes. Ina ddition to that, he can stop Defogs and Spins with a last ditch Final Gambit. His offensive presence isn't too bad either, and although Bug doesn't provide the best coverage, it's still pretty cool. Oh and it isn't just a Spiker, because Specs sets and Sub Encore are a thing too. So yeah awesome mon give more love put it in like A rank imo

 

[watashi]

omastar to a-

as a shell smash sweeper it's much more threatening than gorebyss which is a- since it has an easier time setting up and can outspeed scarf rotom-a. the hazards set is excellent and is probably better than crustle at setting up for ho since custap isn't released yet

lilligant to b+

it's actually pretty versatile since it can run specs or scarf along with the standard set and is pretty hard to stop once it gets going. also if you give it too much free time it can muscle past its counters

rhydon to b+

it's bulky but there aren't too many dominant normal-type attackers in the tier right now and it's easily exploited by a lot of the big threats such as shiftry or feraligatr. a nice pokemon but doesn't deserve to be that high

vileplume to a-

it does well against a lot of big threats such as gurdurr, feraligatr, shiftry, and sceptile plus it hits decently hard and has access to sleep

 

[LightningLuxray]

Poliwrath for B

Honestly, a while back the NU room on PS! had made a viability ranking thread, and this thing ended up at A. I understand Durant is now gone from the tier, but this thing is definitely worth a better ranking than C. Firstly, this thing is an extreme asset to stall, being able to counter two of the best setup sweepers in the tier, Feraligatr and Barbaracle. Secondly, this thing is the best Knock Off absorber for stall. I can't emphasize this enough. While the higher tiers can easily slap on a Mega Evolution (or, in RU's case, Aromatisse), that isn't possible in NU due to the lack of Mega Evolutions and Fairy-types bar Granbull. However, Poliwrath has no problem absorbing Knock Off thanks to its great bulk and defensive typing. This thing also has Circle Throw, which allows it to phaze as well as rack up hazard damage quite easily. And I'm not even getting into it's other sets such as SubPunch, which are also really effective. Overall, this thing easily fits the description of B for me.

Haryiama for B-/B

Another Pokemon who is criminally underrated on this list, Haryiama needs to rise. Thanks to Assault Vest, this thing has taken it's former definition of bulky attacker to a whole new level, now being able to tank special hits with extreme ease. This thing can also use Guts to easily absorb status move, or Thick Fat to take Fire- and Ice-type attack better. This makes it one of the best pivots in the entire tier when combined with its massive HP stat. Not only that, but the Knock Off buff means it's not longer helpless against Ghost-types, now not feeling threatened by them as much. Flame / Toxic Orb sets are still also very effective, granting Haryiama an instant power boost and making it extremely hard to switch into. Overall, this thing definitely needs to go up.

Gourgeist-S should switch places with Gourgeist-XL

Gourgiest-S is actually superior to Gourguiest-XL. This is because of Gourgiest-S's better Speed, which allows it to more easily annoy and wear down at the opponent. For example, if Gourgeist-S is given a free switch in to something like, Sandslash, per say, it can then set up a Substitute as Sandslash switches out. However, Gourgiest-S's extra Speed allows it to move first, meaning it can quickly Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed threats before they can retaliate back. Then, Substitute and Phantom Force / Protect can be spammed, with Leech Seed and Leftovers recovery slowly healing the Substitute damage off Gourguist-S. Overall, this thing functions very similar to SubProtect Gliscor in OU, and is definitely better than the slower, only slightly bulkier version of Gourgeist-XL.

Also, I'm throwing support to both FLCL's and Honko's posts, though I don't really care about they're nominations enough to make a long post about them.

 

[g]

this thing is the best Knock Off absorber for stall. I can't emphasize this enough. While the higher tiers can easily slap on a Mega Evolution (or, in RU's case, Aromatisse), that isn't possible in NU due to the lack of Mega Evolutions and Fairy-types bar Granbull. However, Poliwrath has no problem absorbing Knock Off thanks to its great bulk and defensive typing. This thing also has Circle Throw, which allows it to phaze as well as rack up hazard damage quite easily. And I'm not even getting into it's other sets such as SubPunch, which are also really effective. Overall, this thing easily fits the description of B for me.

I don't really agree with this. The main Knock Off user in the tier, shiftry, can easily dispatch of Poliwrath with Seed Bomb or Leaf Storm making it a super risky switch in. You are right speaking of Knock Off Samurott and Hariyama but Poliwrath is specialized towards walling Physical water and checking fighting types. That said, Poliwrath certainly deserves B-/B rank

 

[Durant]

Ok so Ferroseed seriously has to be ranked right now lol.

Ferroseed plays just like his big brother Ferrothorn and it's seriously underrated. It can be both a special wall and physical wall and can go toe to toe with some dangerous Pokemon in the tier like Feraligatr, non Heat Wave Arcehops, Samurott, Tauros and Swellow. Ferroseed can also beat some common hazards removers like Cryogonal ( Will get worn down by Leech Seed and Gyro Ball hurts, watch out for Hidden Power Fire though ), Sandslash, Shiftry ( Even though losing your Eviolite to Knock Off sucks ) and Togetic. Due to this Ferroseed can keep up it's own hazards quite easily.

Even though it doesn't technically have reliable recovery it does have Leech Seed which helps it stay alive especially with it's low HP stat. With Leech Seed it can wear down Pokemon quite easy while continually gaining health back.Due to all the chip damage Ferroseed can give with Leech Seed, Iron Barbs and possibly Toxic it can wear down some dangerous Pokemon opening up for a sweep with another Pokemon later on. With Eviolite Ferroseed will be as bulky as it's big iron pineapple brother Ferrothorn while still having the same support moves as him. The new and broken Knock Off does hurt Ferroseed but it is still good. Some people see Ferroseed as set up fodder but due to Thunder Wave it can actually stop set up sweepers and prevent them from sweeping you. Ferroseed can also form pretty good cores with stuff like Lanturn and Seismitoed which is nice.

All in all Ferroseed is pretty good and underrated and I think it should somewhere around B rank.

 

[Punchshroom]

: A- Rank
For an offensive Grass-type, Sceptile can handle itself very well, mainly due to its incredible Speed and usable mixed offenses. The set I am holding in high regard is the Sub LO + 3 attacks set. Just a simple set of Giga Drain, Focus Blast, and Hidden Power Ice, and BAM! you're hitting the whole tier for respectable damage at least, and a good majority of Pokes that can shrug off this coverage gets wrecked by Stealth Rock, so it needs very little support to put offensive pressure. Its fraility is handled by its powerful Giga Drains, and can even take advantage of Overgrow in this fashion. This doesn't even cover its other sets, like mixed and Swords Dance, which contain coverage moves that can be harder to resist.

: B Rank
So what is by far the biggest pain for Fighting-types (and Dark-types) in the tier doing in C+? Its STAB alone is not resisted by much in NU, and most of those that do get demolished by Earthquake. What's more, it has Heal Bell, making it one of, if not the best Spiritomb counter available. Its access to Heal Bell means it can even make up for its lack of reliable recovery with a RestTalk set, Sleep Talking Heal Bell to wake itself up and also saves Heal Bell PP, and its main attack has no immunities (unlike Lanturn). It's a pity it cannot have reliable recovery + Fairy-Ground coverage at once, but Granbull is still very worthy of B.

 

[Aerow]

Regirock for B Rank

I have used SmashPass to Regirock for a while now, and it's working extremely well. With maximized Attack and Speed EVs, and a Adamant Nature, Regirock hits 656 Attack and 398 Speed after one Shell Smash boost, outspeeding the whole unboosted metagame, except Accelgor and Ninjask. The reason Regirock is working so extremely well, is that it have a fantastic 436 Defense without investment and a decent HP and Special Defense. Regirock also have solid coverage options in Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Drain Punch, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch, letting it OHKO big parts of the meta with hazard support.

 

[Durant]

Regirock for B Rank

I have used SmashPass to Regirock for a while now, and it's working extremely well. With maximized Attack and Speed EVs, and a Adamant Nature, Regirock hits 656 Attack and 398 Speed after one Shell Smash boost, outspeeding the whole unboosted metagame, except Accelgor and Ninjask. The reason Regirock is working so extremely well, is that it have a fantastic 436 Defense without investment and a decent HP and Special Defense. Regirock also have solid coverage options in Rock Slide/Stone Edge, Drain Punch, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch, letting it OHKO big parts of the meta with hazard support.

Sorry but how is smashpass a good thing for Regirock. Gorebyss is the one that uses Shell Smash so shouldn't Gorebyss move up because it does most of the work when smash passers just recieve it and sweep. Nearly everything can sweep with +2 attack, special attack and speed including even the worst of the worst like Bibarel, Basculin and Butterfree. Honestly being a good smashpass reciever doesn't mean it should move up as almost everything can be a smash pass reciever.

About the defensive Regirock part I just have to ask this: Why would someone use Regirock over Rhydon? Rhydon has similar typing and higher defenses when you factor in Eviolite and higher HP stat. Rhydon also has STAB Earthquake, better coverage, is more versitile and just better in general. Honestly the only time I would use Regirock is when I need something that isn't 4x weak to random Grass and Water attacks but fills the same or similar role to Rhydon.