Resource XY NU Viability Ranking

[kay]

Shedinja is a strange case. Its viability solely rests on what kinda of team support you have for it, and how well you can play it. If you can play it well and you've made a good team to support it, then it does well. But it also relies a lot on team match up, because if they have 6 mons that can hurt it, then it's useless.

Now with that said, I'm in favor of Tier X for things like Ditto and Shedinja whose viability isn't in their hands.

 

[Mistrals]

I fully agree with raising Shedinja. Unlike the D+ mons it's got a very nice, very usable niche, and well it requires support and isn't the best mon ever, can be very useful and answer a lot of threats. Send it to C imo.

Dusknoir can stay in C- though, it's honestly pretty awful and can give a lot of free turns on the cb set due to a lack of a decent stab move of any sort(pursuit and sneak are weak af). Unless you specifically want a bulky physical spinblocker Golurk is just so much better offensively. Wouldn't even mind seeing it drop to D+.

Also agree with Miltank getting a raise, C+ seems pretty fair, as it's a decent pokemon with a lot of options defensively that also has a cool offensive set.

Also lampent should really be lower than C+, it counters like 4 mons and doesn't do much aside from that.

Gonna repeat myself a bit, but Dodrio really should be higher than C-(at least C+), if swanna and pelipper can be B- and Togetic might go B, Vullaby should really be B-, and Beheeyem should be C+, it's an absurd special wallbreaker with a decent amount of options, and hits like a truck with analytic and 125 special attack.

 

[soulgazer]

should stay in A-

Gurdurr is still good in this meta in my opinion. While Psychic-types are infact everywhere, Dark-types are slowly becoming more and more popular to deal with those Psychic-types and Gurdurr can abuse that quite nicely to find a spot on a team. What I like the most about Gurdurr is that it can be a nice Kangaskhan check for teams that can't afford to use Rhydon or Steelix (you know, those teams who use Seismitoad or Camerupt and use Rotom as their Flying-type resist and Normal-type check). Thats especially quite nice when you consider that Kangaskhan is being used more and more too. Gurdurr does struggle to break through bulky Poison-types, but with Psychic-types everywhere and so easy to put on teams, I don't think thats too much of an issue.

???

I am a bit iffy about where Sawk should go tbh. On one hand, Sawk is really threatening for any bulky team as it can easily OHKO or 2HKO everything (with some predictions, but since Sawk isn't too weak to entry hazards it doesn't mind having to switch out as it will easily come back in later). On the other hand, Sawk can't do much against more offensive teams as it isn't THAT hard to OHKO it with some entry hazards, and priority is everywhere so usually in best scenarios Sawk will grab one kill and get revenge killed. I don't mind if Sawk stays in A- or drops to B+.

to B
I never was a big fan of Accelgor for multiple reasons. Mainly because I just think Qwilfish is a superior Spikes Lead on offense and has a better niche on balance than what Accelgor can do. Might just be me being biased tho.

should stay in B+

Qwilfish is still a great Pokemon. The best Spikes Lead on offense imo thanks to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, and Explosion + good Speed tier. Not that good on balance due to Garbodor being superior I guess, but still decent.

to B-

Granbull should probably even drop to C+ lol. Who ever makes a team and think 'oh!! Granbull can work there!'. It's more of a Pokemon you build around imo. Granbull is one of those Pokemon that seems nice on paper, but does nothing in games.

???

Kangaskhan is so easy to put on teams. Can revenge kill anything thanks to Fake Out and Sucker Punch and is only really walled by Rock- and Steel-types, and they don't even have reliable recovery so what you really only need to have is some entry hazards and teammates that deal with Steel- and Rock-types (like, the easiest thing to do). Heck, Kangaskhan can even run Aqua Tail to 2HKO Rhydon lol. I have so much more to say, but I am lazy so im gonna stop there.

to A-

Ludicolo is good, not much to say. Ludicolo is threatening as fuck and even Hariyama is 2HKOed.. and Choice Scarf Ludicolo is fun too. I think everybody covered everything already so not much to say.

to A-

Exeggutor is godly. Timid Choice Specs / Life Orb is strong as fuck and shows no mercy (I know Modest is even stronger, but I don't like Grass-types that can't check slow Gatr). LumRest, Trick Room, and Sunny Day are also really fun. A- pls.

to A-

I have a massive Garbodor fetish and I am proud of it. Garbodor is so good and can check so many things. I will cry if it doesn't go to A- or even A :(

My suggestions:

from B to B+

Cacturne is really great, and is a bit versatile too: it can lead to set up Spikes (Cacturne has good matchup against most Rapid Spin users, has Destiny Bond and Encore to be annoying), can go Mixed (Giga Drain, Dark Pulse, Sucker Punch, and Destiny Bond / Spikes with Life Orb is nice), and obviously can use Swords Dance too. I think Cacturne also has the strongest Sucker Punch in NU too (iirc it can OHKO Typhlosion after 1 Stealth Rock if it has Adamant Nature lol). Some people say Cacturne is too slow, but I actually think Cacturne is fast enough. With Jolly / Hasty, Cacturne can outspeed slower variants of Feraligatr (making Cacturne a really nice Gatr check), Pawniard, and like the vast majority of walls in NU. Cacturne has Sucker Punch against faster threats, so its not that much of an issue. Unfortunately, Cacturne isn't that bulky, but its bulk is enough along with Grass / Dark typing to check what its supposed to check (Rotom, Ground-types, etc). TLDR Cacturne is great and you nerds need to use it more.

from B to B+

Panda. BTW Choice Band Pangoro is only good on Trick Room and is trash outside of that. Swords Dance is where its at. Nothing enjoys switching on a Iron Fist Fist Plate Adamant Hammer Arm, and at +2 it can even OHKO Slurpuff with Stealth Rock damage. I personally like Hammer Arm / Crunch / Swords Dance / Taunt with lots of speed creep for walls, other like Earthquake or Poison Jab over Taunt, but idk I prefer Taunt's utility. Anyway, Swords Dance Pangoro is a massive threat to Stall teams unless they have like a Dazzling Gleam Togetic, a Granbull, or a SubCM Dazzling Gleam Uxie, but then again the first two don't enjoy taking boosted Poison Jab. Most Psychic-types at the moment no longer run Dazzling Gleam as Dark-types weren't as common, and Pangoro loves that. Panda to B+ pls.

 

[Ares]

should stay in A-

Gurdurr is still good in this meta in my opinion. While Psychic-types are infact everywhere, Dark-types are slowly becoming more and more popular to deal with those Dark-types and Gurdurr can abuse that quite nicely to find a spot on a team. What I like the most about Gurdurr is that it can be a nice Kangaskhan check for teams that can't afford to use Rhydon or Steelix (you know, those teams who use Seismitoad or Camerupt and use Rotom as their Flying-type resist and Normal-type check). Thats especially quite nice when you consider that Kangaskhan is being used more and more too. Gurdurr does struggle to break through bulky Poison-types, but with Psychic-types everywhere and so easy to put on teams, I don't think thats too much of an issue.

???

I am a bit iffy about where Sawk should go tbh. On one hand, Sawk is really threatening for any bulky team as it can easily OHKO or 2HKO everything (with some predictions, but since Sawk isn't too weak to entry hazards it doesn't mind having to switch out as it will easily come back in later). On the other hand, Sawk can't do much against more offensive teams as it isn't THAT hard to OHKO it with some entry hazards, and priority is everywhere so usually in best scenarios Sawk will grab one kill and get revenge killed. I don't mind if Sawk stays in A- or drops to B+.

to B
I never was a big fan of Accelgor for multiple reasons. Mainly because I just think Qwilfish is a superior Spikes Lead on offense and has a better niche on balance than what Accelgor can do. Might just be me being biased tho.

should stay in B+

Qwilfish is still a great Pokemon. The best Spikes Lead on offense imo thanks to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Taunt, and Explosion + good Speed tier. Not that good on balance due to Garbodor being superior I guess, but still decent.

to B-

Granbull should probably even drop to C+ lol. Who ever makes a team and think 'oh!! Granbull can work there!'. It's more of a Pokemon you build around imo. Granbull is one of those Pokemon that seems nice on paper, but does nothing in games.

???

Kangaskhan is so easy to put on teams. Can revenge kill anything thanks to Fake Out and Sucker Punch and is only really walled by Rock- and Steel-types, and they don't even have reliable recovery so what you really only need to have is some entry hazards and teammates that deal with Steel- and Rock-types (like, the easiest thing to do). Heck, Kangaskhan can even run Aqua Tail to 2HKO Rhydon lol. I have so much more to say, but I am lazy so im gonna stop there.

to A-

Ludicolo is good, not much to say. Ludicolo is threatening as fuck and even Hariyama is 2HKOed.. and Choice Scarf Ludicolo is fun too. I think everybody covered everything already so not much to say.

to A-

Exeggutor is godly. Timid Choice Specs / Life Orb is strong as fuck and shows no mercy (I know Modest is even stronger, but I don't like Grass-types that can't check slow Gatr). LumRest, Trick Room, and Sunny Day are also really fun. A- pls.

to A-

I have a massive Garbodor fetish and I am proud of it. Garbodor is so good and can check so many things. I will cry if it doesn't go to A- or even A :(

My suggestions:

from B to B+

Cacturne is really great, and is a bit versatile too: it can lead to set up Spikes (Cacturne has good matchup against most Rapid Spin users, has Destiny Bond and Encore to be annoying), can go Mixed (Giga Drain, Dark Pulse, Sucker Punch, and Destiny Bond / Spikes with Life Orb is nice), and obviously can use Swords Dance too. I think Cacturne also has the strongest Sucker Punch in NU too (iirc it can OHKO Typhlosion after 1 Stealth Rock if it has Adamant Nature lol). Some people say Cacturne is too slow, but I actually think Cacturne is fast enough. With Jolly / Hasty, Cacturne can outspeed slower variants of Feraligatr (making Cacturne a really nice Gatr check), Pawniard, and like the vast majority of walls in NU. Cacturne has Sucker Punch against faster threats, so its not that much of an issue. Unfortunately, Cacturne isn't that bulky, but its bulk is enough along with Grass / Dark typing to check what its supposed to check (Rotom, Ground-types, etc). TLDR Cacturne is great and you nerds need to use it more.

from B to B+

Panda. BTW Choice Band Pangoro is only good on Trick Room and is trash outside of that. Swords Dance is where its at. Nothing enjoys switching on a Iron Fist Fist Plate Adamant Hammer Arm, and at +2 it can even OHKO Slurpuff with Stealth Rock damage. I personally like Hammer Arm / Crunch / Swords Dance / Taunt with lots of speed creep for walls, other like Earthquake or Poison Jab over Taunt, but idk I prefer Taunt's utility. Anyway, Swords Dance Pangoro is a massive threat to Stall teams unless they have like a Dazzling Gleam Togetic, a Granbull, or a SubCM Dazzling Gleam Uxie, but then again the first two don't enjoy taking boosted Poison Jab. Most Psychic-types at the moment no longer run Dazzling Gleam as Dark-types weren't as common, and Pangoro loves that. Panda to B+ pls.

I agree with everything posted there except for Granbull. It is one or the best counters to fighting spam on balance providing great support to its team through Heal Bell and Twave. It has some flaws like unreliable recovery which can be worked around because of its great synergy with Audino and Lickilikcy. It's still a really good mon and I don't think it should drop.

 

[Dentricos]

I'm gonna start at the bottom of the tier with mons I don't feel are in the right place based on other mons in their rank and the ranks above them. Sorry for making such long posts I just enjoy writing and getting all of my thoughts and reasoning out before people criticize. I'm going to try putting some baseline mons that represent each different viability category to kind of put my suggestions in perspective.


D- Viability Changes

When I looked at D- there were two mons that I felt did not fit in with things like Jumpluff, Hypno, and Noctowl. I understand these are shitmons but I don't think they are as shit as given credit for.

Armaldo D- ---> C-

I know a lot of people are quick to dismiss armaldo as bad because it is pretty outclassed as a spinner D- ranking is way to harsh and really doesn't give credits to it's merits. Not only does this thing have access to rapid spin, but it also has access to decent bulk (75 - 100 - 80), a base 125 attack stat (same as sawk), decent dual stabs, swords dance, and a shitty but relevant nonstab priority in aqua jet. As I looked up the rankings I kind of thought it fit more it with mons like Arbok, Dusknoir, Ninjask, and Simisear who currently reside in C-.

Electrode D- ---> D+

This has an extremely famous viable speed tier where it can out speed mostly anything without scarf. It is know to work pretty well on a few rain teams for setting rain, using taunt, and spamming thunder or voltswitch for momentum. It's obviously not the best but hey why can't it be considered alongside other things like lopunny, politoad, and rapidash? I think it would fit right in tbh.

Gigilith D- ---> D

Yes this thing is CRAZY outclassed by so many things but damn is this thing good at doing it's job. I've just seen time and time again this thing pulls through switching in to take a physical hit, getting rocks up, and hitting one extremely powerful hit that is hard to switch into. I feel like as bad as it is, it is less dismiss-able then the other D- mons. D ranking contains mons like Duosion, Throw, dusclops, and Golduck.


D Viability Changes

Lapras D ---> D+

I might be the only one but I have a shitton of trouble breaking this bulky mon without it hitting me with some pretty powerful stab waterfalls, freeze-drys, and ice shards. It has really good bulk and walls the most obscure things but just from experience I could see this thing rising a bit. Thoughts?

D+ Viability Changes

Lopunny D+ ---> D

This is the first mon I feel really needs to move down. It has a few really interesting niches that it's not outclassed in by anything in the tier but at the same time those tend to be extremely easy to deal with if u have a well made team. I just don't feel like it keeps up with the other mons in D+ considering that those could actually work on a team ie avalugg, torkoal, or rapidash, while loupunny just ends up being a drag...

Shedinja D+ ---> C

Yes this requires more support then about any mon in the game but I feel like viability wise it is pretty similar to ditto and carbink up in C viability. Although yes there are definetly countless ways to deal with it and it is pretty hard to manage, this thing has proven to be a threat in the right hands. It is a semi-decent wall considering it completely beats what can't hit it.

C- Viability Changes

Mantine C- ---> C+

Sorry for bringing this up again but I feel like this has gotten a decent amount of support and frankly is more viable then things that are currently in C :/ It's really really good at what it does in absorbing hits, 100% countering a lot of common special attackers like typhlosion, gorebyss, and ludicolo. Yes it can be worn down with a lack of recovery or physical bulk but access to defog, haze, it's typing, and bulk allow it to be fairly decent to use in NU.

Stoutland C- ---> C

I disagree with this thing being limited to the rank of hippopotus. Yes they are commonly used as a combo sand core that I have used myself, but this thing can destroy lives even after sand is long gone. This thing is a powerhouse wall-breaker that deserves a bit more...

Prinplup C- ---> C+

I see this mon work over and over again... the only thing that is holding this back from being a top tier utility mon is it's lack of access to recovery. What really should be considered is it's bulk, access to reliable defog without being weak to rocks, and it's ability to set it's own rocks. It can be even more of a nuisance going for scald burns.

Mightyena C- ---> D

Mightyena is one of those mons that is really only good on paper. People see it has stab sucker punch and moxie and imagine all the unbeatable power it has. In reality it has almost no power to go on before the boost and since it lacks pursuit it isn't ever guaranteed the moxie which almost everybody recognizes as this things main niche...

C Viability Changes

Frogadier C ---> C-

Quite honestly this things doesn't add too much to teams even with it's power from protean. Most of the time in NU it doesn't hit hard enough to get the job done, and is just under the speedcut needed to be considered really fast. (Base 97) Not that it is much worse I just feel it is more at home with things like Arbok and Heatmor.

Raichu C ---> C+

I want to give a bit of hype to this mon considering it's base 110 speed, access to nasty plot and a solid movepool, and voltswitch momentum. I've seen these put in so serious work that isn't imitated much by the other fast voltswitch users in the tier.

Sawsbuck C ---> C+

This mon is a threat with great dual stab, access to swords dance, decent speed, and an amazing ability in chlorophyll. I've seen this mon put in work and I would strongly recommend putting this up to C+

C+ Viability Changes

I do want to point out that in my eyes C+ seems to be where you start getting more consistant mons that but in huge amounts of work fairly consistently and rely less on very rare situations. These are mons that you can see working on teams.

Cradily C+ ---> B-
As happy as I am with its current rank I still want to put out the argument that it has a place in B- with things as inconsistent as linoone, kadabra, and rotom-frost. Honestly a lot of things that were notably better then cradily such as steelix, leafeon, and bouffalant have moved up and I feel like it would fit in fine.

Lampent C+ ---> C-

I've rarely seen this thing and the times that I have it hasn't been hard for my teams to deal with. It might have nice offensive typing but... idk if it deserves to be where it is.

Zweilous C+ ---> B-

At first I was pretty skeptical about this mon but after seeing it a few times it's typing is really hard to deal with and it can also pack a punch with the banded hustle set.

Viability Changes B-

|

krickotune | Leavanny B- ---> C

The web setters really don't play that big or a role in this tier. They almost never do anything else and tend to be pretty ez to deal with.

Drifblim B- ---> C+

Yeah this thing is interesting with unburden, multiple ways to set up and baton pass some stats over, but I feel like it is sitting around mons that are far more useful then it is...

Sandslash B- ---> B

Whenever u think of what the most reliable spinner in the tier is, you think cryo, kabutops, and sandslash. Kabutops often has better things to do then spin and cryo is weak to rocks so I feel like this can safely hold the title as best spinner in the tier and it also has that access to Stealth Rock.

Scyther B- ---> B

Well as much support as this needs from preventing rocks from going up this has a great troll tier speed, access to swords dance, uturn and roost or whatever u want to do with it. I feel like it is either very good for B- or pretty bad for B.

Viability Changes B

Simipour B ---> C+

I honestly feel like this doesn't break 2 much that other waters don't and is pretty outclassed by sweeper gorebyss who also has the ability to pass it's stats.

Torterra B ---> C

All in all this mon seems to lack the ability to do as much as other mons it is surrounded by and it is crippled heavily by so much...

 

[kogaza]

I'm gonna start at the bottom of the tier with mons I don't feel are in the right place based on other mons in their rank and the ranks above them. Sorry for making such long posts I just enjoy writing and getting all of my thoughts and reasoning out before people criticize. I'm going to try putting some baseline mons that represent each different viability category to kind of put my suggestions in perspective.


D- Viability Changes

When I looked at D- there were two mons that I felt did not fit in with things like Jumpluff, Hypno, and Noctowl. I understand these are shitmons but I don't think they are as shit as given credit for.

Armaldo D- ---> C-

I know a lot of people are quick to dismiss armaldo as bad because it is pretty outclassed as a spinner D- ranking is way to harsh and really doesn't give credits to it's merits. Not only does this thing have access to rapid spin, but it also has access to decent bulk (75 - 100 - 80), a base 125 attack stat (same as sawk), decent dual stabs, swords dance, and a shitty but relevant nonstab priority in aqua jet. As I looked up the rankings I kind of thought it fit more it with mons like Arbok, Dusknoir, Ninjask, and Simisear who currently reside in C-.

Electrode D- ---> D+

This has an extremely famous viable speed tier where it can out speed mostly anything without scarf. It is know to work pretty well on a few rain teams for setting rain, using taunt, and spamming thunder or voltswitch for momentum. It's obviously not the best but hey why can't it be considered alongside other things like lopunny, politoad, and rapidash? I think it would fit right in tbh.

Gigilith D- ---> D

Yes this thing is CRAZY outclassed by so many things but damn is this thing good at doing it's job. I've just seen time and time again this thing pulls through switching in to take a physical hit, getting rocks up, and hitting one extremely powerful hit that is hard to switch into. I feel like as bad as it is, it is less dismiss-able then the other D- mons. D ranking contains mons like Duosion, Throw, dusclops, and Golduck.


D Viability Changes

Lapras D ---> D+

I might be the only one but I have a shitton of trouble breaking this bulky mon without it hitting me with some pretty powerful stab waterfalls, freeze-drys, and ice shards. It has really good bulk and walls the most obscure things but just from experience I could see this thing rising a bit. Thoughts?

D+ Viability Changes

Lopunny D+ ---> D

This is the first mon I feel really needs to move down. It has a few really interesting niches that it's not outclassed in by anything in the tier but at the same time those tend to be extremely easy to deal with if u have a well made team. I just don't feel like it keeps up with the other mons in D+ considering that those could actually work on a team ie avalugg, torkoal, or rapidash, while loupunny just ends up being a drag...

Shedinja D+ ---> C

Yes this requires more support then about any mon in the game but I feel like viability wise it is pretty similar to ditto and carbink up in C viability. Although yes there are definetly countless ways to deal with it and it is pretty hard to manage, this thing has proven to be a threat in the right hands. It is a semi-decent wall considering it completely beats what can't hit it.

C- Viability Changes

Mantine C- ---> C+

Sorry for bringing this up again but I feel like this has gotten a decent amount of support and frankly is more viable then things that are currently in C :/ It's really really good at what it does in absorbing hits, 100% countering a lot of common special attackers like typhlosion, gorebyss, and ludicolo. Yes it can be worn down with a lack of recovery or physical bulk but access to defog, haze, it's typing, and bulk allow it to be fairly decent to use in NU.

Stoutland C- ---> C

I disagree with this thing being limited to the rank of hippopotus. Yes they are commonly used as a combo sand core that I have used myself, but this thing can destroy lives even after sand is long gone. This thing is a powerhouse wall-breaker that deserves a bit more...

Prinplup C- ---> C+

I see this mon work over and over again... the only thing that is holding this back from being a top tier utility mon is it's lack of access to recovery. What really should be considered is it's bulk, access to reliable defog without being weak to rocks, and it's ability to set it's own rocks. It can be even more of a nuisance going for scald burns.

Mightyena C- ---> D

Mightyena is one of those mons that is really only good on paper. People see it has stab sucker punch and moxie and imagine all the unbeatable power it has. In reality it has almost no power to go on before the boost and since it lacks pursuit it isn't ever guaranteed the moxie which almost everybody recognizes as this things main niche...

C Viability Changes

Frogadier C ---> C-

Quite honestly this things doesn't add too much to teams even with it's power from protean. Most of the time in NU it doesn't hit hard enough to get the job done, and is just under the speedcut needed to be considered really fast. (Base 97) Not that it is much worse I just feel it is more at home with things like Arbok and Heatmor.

Raichu C ---> C+

I want to give a bit of hype to this mon considering it's base 110 speed, access to nasty plot and a solid movepool, and voltswitch momentum. I've seen these put in so serious work that isn't imitated much by the other fast voltswitch users in the tier.

Sawsbuck C ---> C+

This mon is a threat with great dual stab, access to swords dance, decent speed, and an amazing ability in chlorophyll. I've seen this mon put in work and I would strongly recommend putting this up to C+

C+ Viability Changes

I do want to point out that in my eyes C+ seems to be where you start getting more consistant mons that but in huge amounts of work fairly consistently and rely less on very rare situations. These are mons that you can see working on teams.

Cradily C+ ---> B-
As happy as I am with its current rank I still want to put out the argument that it has a place in B- with things as inconsistent as linoone, kadabra, and rotom-frost. Honestly a lot of things that were notably better then cradily such as steelix, leafeon, and bouffalant have moved up and I feel like it would fit in fine.

Lampent C+ ---> C-

I've rarely seen this thing and the times that I have it hasn't been hard for my teams to deal with. It might have nice offensive typing but... idk if it deserves to be where it is.

Zweilous C+ ---> B-

At first I was pretty skeptical about this mon but after seeing it a few times it's typing is really hard to deal with and it can also pack a punch with the banded hustle set.

Viability Changes B-

|

krickotune | Leavanny B- ---> C

The web setters really don't play that big or a role in this tier. They almost never do anything else and tend to be pretty ez to deal with.

Drifblim B- ---> C+

Yeah this thing is interesting with unburden, multiple ways to set up and baton pass some stats over, but I feel like it is sitting around mons that are far more useful then it is...

Sandslash B- ---> B

Whenever u think of what the most reliable spinner in the tier is, you think cryo, kabutops, and sandslash. Kabutops often has better things to do then spin and cryo is weak to rocks so I feel like this can safely hold the title as best spinner in the tier and it also has that access to Stealth Rock.

Scyther B- ---> B

Well as much support as this needs from preventing rocks from going up this has a great troll tier speed, access to swords dance, uturn and roost or whatever u want to do with it. I feel like it is either very good for B- or pretty bad for B.

Viability Changes B

Simipour B ---> C+

I honestly feel like this doesn't break 2 much that other waters don't and is pretty outclassed by sweeper gorebyss who also has the ability to pass it's stats.

Torterra B ---> C

All in all this mon seems to lack the ability to do as much as other mons it is surrounded by and it is crippled heavily by so much...

I have to strongly disagree with one thing, frogadier dropping to C-... for starters has access to an amazing ability as well as taunt, stab u-turn and even toxic spikes. It also does a good job vs. things like seismitoad, ferroseed, dragalge and the speed tier it's in compliments it's ability to stop common walls and a few slow offense mons in their tracks. this thing deserves to stay where it is in my opinion, but right now i don't think it should be higher with it's slightly sub par abilities in the current meta.
Some calcs if you aren't convinced:

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Ferroseed: 286-343 (97.9 - 117.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 377-447 (112.8 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 296-351 (91 - 108%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Feraligatr Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Frogadier: 104-123 (41.7 - 49.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Basically, most things slower than this aren't going to enjoy fighting it. It should stay in C.

Simipour is another one I have to disagree with. It's in a really good speed tier and has access to nasty plot and an excellent coverage movepool of hydro pump, grass knot and ice beam. I think this thing should stay in B, or at the very least be B-, C+ is an insult to this thing's reliable potential.

Both armaldo and gigalith are things that in my opinion don't really deserve to see a rise. The fact that they are outclassed so badly is reason enough to leave them where they are. They only have a few insignificant niches over the likes of the other rock type stealth rock setters/physical walls/spinners/sweepers etc. Because of this there is really no reason to use them over other pokemon and so they should stay where they are, or at best be D+. They really don't deserve to be within the C ranks.

Other than that, I for the most part agree with this list, things like zweilous and scyther really deserve to go up and you gave some good points about other mons needing to see a rise.

 

[Zenza]

I would love to see Pangoro go B+. Although stall isn't too common (or good) anymore, Panda is still the OG stall killa. As Soulgazer mentioned above, the set of SD/Taunt/Hammer Arm/Crunch absolutely shits all over the metagame. It is slow, but is fast enough to outrun most walls to get off a taunt to prevent status and shit. Another thing I value so highly about panda is that it doesn't just do well vs stall or when it's in Trick Room. It absolutely shreds most cores on balance (outside of bad gross shit like rest talk granbull) with it's dual stab, and even against strong HO, Panda is bulky enough to normally eat one hit and retaliate back with a kill. Also regarding Panda vs HO, every time it comes in it basically claims a life, but yes it's speed does hinder it versus faster teams. To synthesize, Panda should be B+ because of it's raw power, and it's ability to shut down stall and break through most balance/ Bulky offense team's defensive cores. Just to throw out a quick calc for y'all: +2 252+ Atk Fist Plate Iron Fist Pangoro Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Slurpuff: 283-333 (92.7 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock. LOL Nice switch in.

Edit: Forgot to mention that pangoro has a nice niche on volt-turn teams because of parting shot, and even outside of volt-turn teams parting shot is amazing for momentum if your using like CB Panda or something.

Edit #2: Just remembered Panda gets Knock Off/Drain Punch in ORAS so RIP meta. Also can someone take Vivillion out of A- pls thank you :]

 

[The Goomy]

I would like to propose:

------> C-

This may seem like a really Farfetch'd idea, but Wigglytuff can actually work really well as an Anti-Lead in the current meta.

It has access to Magic Coat, Stealth Rock, and most importantly Solarbeam.

Solarbeam allows Wiggly to beat many of the common leads in the tier, and win the hazard war for your team.

This mon is not great by any means, but I feel like it performs it's niche as an anti-lead well enough to deserve C-

 

[Pooch13]

One thing on the list I want to comment about is Simipour.

I don't feel that is should drop due to some amazing things it has going for it:

• an amazing speed tier
• access to nasty plot
• and a great move pool in hydro pump and grass knot.

The only competition this mon has as a special water types is Samurott, but having better speed and Nasty Plot gives it enough of a reason to consider it in a team over Samurott.


here are some calcs to prove the point of how much of a monster this can be:

252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Seismitoad: 473-562 (114.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Audino: 304-359 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 221-260 (68 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Simipour Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Hariyama: 277-328 (64.5 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Now, it's hard a lot of the time for Simipour to pull off a Nasty Plot due to how frail it is, but the sheer power this mon brings is is really over looked.
It also acts as an offensive gatr check with some prior damage. It also out speeds timid Typhlosion, so it can easily revenge kill a choice specs Typhlosion.

Why would you use simipour over gorebys? It can pass its stats too and can be used in rain offense. Simipour iskinda like a bit faster, less bulkier golduck with nasty plot that saves it from being completely outclassed like simisear is by ninetales. Dont understand why it is so high,

 

[kay]

Gorebyss has base 55 speed. It needs the SS to do anything relevant in a game, whereas Simipour can do what it needs to do even without the nasty plot.

 

[Nabilla Benattia]

I'd like to nominate Ludicolo to move up to A- rank. Ludi is a monstrous little pineapple duck thing that puts in a lot of work in rain. I think the reason it's not in A- already is because it's being seen as a pure sweeper, which is honestly a little underwhelming, given its complete inability to break specially defensive walls. Where ludicolo shines, however, is when used in tandem with a physical water type sweeper, like kabutops or feraligatr because of ludicolo's ability to beat almost all of their counters (except ferroseed, because there's not really space for focus blast unless the team is used in rain). Ludicolo supports these sets very well, and also can do a ton of work against offense teams and balance teams, in these matchups a free turn can mean game, or at least can ensure an advantage. It does have flaws (the lack of power shows against things like audino) and it's typing can be a little awkward, because you usually want your water type to check typhlosion, pyroar, etc. but I think that the niche it has is fully deserving of A-

 

[Mistrals]

I'm gonna start at the bottom of the tier with mons I don't feel are in the right place based on other mons in their rank and the ranks above them. Sorry for making such long posts I just enjoy writing and getting all of my thoughts and reasoning out before people criticize. I'm going to try putting some baseline mons that represent each different viability category to kind of put my suggestions in perspective.


D- Viability Changes

When I looked at D- there were two mons that I felt did not fit in with things like Jumpluff, Hypno, and Noctowl. I understand these are shitmons but I don't think they are as shit as given credit for.

Armaldo D- ---> C-

I know a lot of people are quick to dismiss armaldo as bad because it is pretty outclassed as a spinner D- ranking is way to harsh and really doesn't give credits to it's merits. Not only does this thing have access to rapid spin, but it also has access to decent bulk (75 - 100 - 80), a base 125 attack stat (same as sawk), decent dual stabs, swords dance, and a shitty but relevant nonstab priority in aqua jet. As I looked up the rankings I kind of thought it fit more it with mons like Arbok, Dusknoir, Ninjask, and Simisear who currently reside in C-.

Electrode D- ---> D+

This has an extremely famous viable speed tier where it can out speed mostly anything without scarf. It is know to work pretty well on a few rain teams for setting rain, using taunt, and spamming thunder or voltswitch for momentum. It's obviously not the best but hey why can't it be considered alongside other things like lopunny, politoad, and rapidash? I think it would fit right in tbh.

Gigilith D- ---> D

Yes this thing is CRAZY outclassed by so many things but damn is this thing good at doing it's job. I've just seen time and time again this thing pulls through switching in to take a physical hit, getting rocks up, and hitting one extremely powerful hit that is hard to switch into. I feel like as bad as it is, it is less dismiss-able then the other D- mons. D ranking contains mons like Duosion, Throw, dusclops, and Golduck.


D Viability Changes

Lapras D ---> D+

I might be the only one but I have a shitton of trouble breaking this bulky mon without it hitting me with some pretty powerful stab waterfalls, freeze-drys, and ice shards. It has really good bulk and walls the most obscure things but just from experience I could see this thing rising a bit. Thoughts?

D+ Viability Changes

Lopunny D+ ---> D

This is the first mon I feel really needs to move down. It has a few really interesting niches that it's not outclassed in by anything in the tier but at the same time those tend to be extremely easy to deal with if u have a well made team. I just don't feel like it keeps up with the other mons in D+ considering that those could actually work on a team ie avalugg, torkoal, or rapidash, while loupunny just ends up being a drag...

Shedinja D+ ---> C

Yes this requires more support then about any mon in the game but I feel like viability wise it is pretty similar to ditto and carbink up in C viability. Although yes there are definetly countless ways to deal with it and it is pretty hard to manage, this thing has proven to be a threat in the right hands. It is a semi-decent wall considering it completely beats what can't hit it.

C- Viability Changes

Mantine C- ---> C+

Sorry for bringing this up again but I feel like this has gotten a decent amount of support and frankly is more viable then things that are currently in C :/ It's really really good at what it does in absorbing hits, 100% countering a lot of common special attackers like typhlosion, gorebyss, and ludicolo. Yes it can be worn down with a lack of recovery or physical bulk but access to defog, haze, it's typing, and bulk allow it to be fairly decent to use in NU.

Stoutland C- ---> C

I disagree with this thing being limited to the rank of hippopotus. Yes they are commonly used as a combo sand core that I have used myself, but this thing can destroy lives even after sand is long gone. This thing is a powerhouse wall-breaker that deserves a bit more...

Prinplup C- ---> C+

I see this mon work over and over again... the only thing that is holding this back from being a top tier utility mon is it's lack of access to recovery. What really should be considered is it's bulk, access to reliable defog without being weak to rocks, and it's ability to set it's own rocks. It can be even more of a nuisance going for scald burns.

Mightyena C- ---> D

Mightyena is one of those mons that is really only good on paper. People see it has stab sucker punch and moxie and imagine all the unbeatable power it has. In reality it has almost no power to go on before the boost and since it lacks pursuit it isn't ever guaranteed the moxie which almost everybody recognizes as this things main niche...

C Viability Changes

Frogadier C ---> C-

Quite honestly this things doesn't add too much to teams even with it's power from protean. Most of the time in NU it doesn't hit hard enough to get the job done, and is just under the speedcut needed to be considered really fast. (Base 97) Not that it is much worse I just feel it is more at home with things like Arbok and Heatmor.

Raichu C ---> C+

I want to give a bit of hype to this mon considering it's base 110 speed, access to nasty plot and a solid movepool, and voltswitch momentum. I've seen these put in so serious work that isn't imitated much by the other fast voltswitch users in the tier.

Sawsbuck C ---> C+

This mon is a threat with great dual stab, access to swords dance, decent speed, and an amazing ability in chlorophyll. I've seen this mon put in work and I would strongly recommend putting this up to C+

C+ Viability Changes

I do want to point out that in my eyes C+ seems to be where you start getting more consistant mons that but in huge amounts of work fairly consistently and rely less on very rare situations. These are mons that you can see working on teams.

Cradily C+ ---> B-
As happy as I am with its current rank I still want to put out the argument that it has a place in B- with things as inconsistent as linoone, kadabra, and rotom-frost. Honestly a lot of things that were notably better then cradily such as steelix, leafeon, and bouffalant have moved up and I feel like it would fit in fine.

Lampent C+ ---> C-

I've rarely seen this thing and the times that I have it hasn't been hard for my teams to deal with. It might have nice offensive typing but... idk if it deserves to be where it is.

Zweilous C+ ---> B-

At first I was pretty skeptical about this mon but after seeing it a few times it's typing is really hard to deal with and it can also pack a punch with the banded hustle set.

Viability Changes B-

|

krickotune | Leavanny B- ---> C

The web setters really don't play that big or a role in this tier. They almost never do anything else and tend to be pretty ez to deal with.

Drifblim B- ---> C+

Yeah this thing is interesting with unburden, multiple ways to set up and baton pass some stats over, but I feel like it is sitting around mons that are far more useful then it is...

Sandslash B- ---> B

Whenever u think of what the most reliable spinner in the tier is, you think cryo, kabutops, and sandslash. Kabutops often has better things to do then spin and cryo is weak to rocks so I feel like this can safely hold the title as best spinner in the tier and it also has that access to Stealth Rock.

Scyther B- ---> B

Well as much support as this needs from preventing rocks from going up this has a great troll tier speed, access to swords dance, uturn and roost or whatever u want to do with it. I feel like it is either very good for B- or pretty bad for B.

Viability Changes B

Simipour B ---> C+

I honestly feel like this doesn't break 2 much that other waters don't and is pretty outclassed by sweeper gorebyss who also has the ability to pass it's stats.

Torterra B ---> C

All in all this mon seems to lack the ability to do as much as other mons it is surrounded by and it is crippled heavily by so much...

I agree with most of your changes, though Armaldo should really stay D-rank. D+ seems fair enough though. Leavanny should only go C+ though imo, and Torterra should only go C+ as well. Also frogadier shouldn't drop as said above because it has some cool niches and can work pretty effectively in some scenarios. Also Simipour should only go down to B- imo. Thought it was there before, but now that I've seen it's B, that seems a tad too high for it.

Also Articuno should really drop to C-/D+, it's pretty underwhelming at anything it does and 4x weakness to rocks just kills any decent set it could have.

 

[kogaza]

I'd like to nominate Ludicolo to move up to A- rank. Ludi is a monstrous little pineapple duck thing that puts in a lot of work in rain. I think the reason it's not in A- already is because it's being seen as a pure sweeper, which is honestly a little underwhelming, given its complete inability to break specially defensive walls. Where ludicolo shines, however, is when used in tandem with a physical water type sweeper, like kabutops or feraligatr because of ludicolo's ability to beat almost all of their counters (except ferroseed, because there's not really space for focus blast unless the team is used in rain). Ludicolo supports these sets very well, and also can do a ton of work against offense teams and balance teams, in these matchups a free turn can mean game, or at least can ensure an advantage. It does have flaws (the lack of power shows against things like audino) and it's typing can be a little awkward, because you usually want your water type to check typhlosion, pyroar, etc. but I think that the niche it has is fully deserving of A-

Ludi was nominated in a previous post iirc, but at least this reminds people of the monster that is ludicolo. Ludicolo fully deserves rank A- due to great offensive and defensive typing, ability to function well in and out of rain and a solid movepool. So let's make it happen. This thing now has a scarf set too, thanks to lord hollywood who thought of this, meaning it has no trouble 1 on 1 vs things like typhlosion, pyroar, sceptile, swellow, etc etc.

Also I'm not being biased because of my avatar just btw.

 

[Punchshroom]

Things I wholeheartedly agree with:

ludicolo: b+ -> a-
kabutops: a -> a-
accelgor: b+ -> b
vileplume: b+ -> b
electivire: b -> c+
swellow: b -> b-
torterra: b -> c+ omastar is gone.
drifblim: b- -> c-
grumpig: b- -> c
kadabra: b- -> c+
lickilicky: b- -> c+
linoone: b- -> c
rotom-frost: b- -> c
togetic: b- -> b use gleam/defog/roost/baton pass on balance.

Addressing some of Soulgazer's dumped suggestions.

exeggutor: b- -> a- why is this thing so low.

I would believe that people are deterred by Eggy's weaknesses coupled with low speed, and for the most part their claims are not unjustified. Outside of Sun, Eggy is one of the easiest Pokemon in the tier to revenge kill, especially after it unleashes that devastating Specs Leaf Storm. In the Sun, being weak to Sucker Punch and outsped by numerous Choice Scarfers (even Rotom) are real bummers. Psychic-types have been seen switching to Signal Beam for coverage so that is even less good news for Eggy. I get that this thing can be a super pain in the ass to switch into, but B+ seems like a more reasonable rise, considering Ludicolo's previous position in B+.

leavanny: b- -> c+

If this thing is going to drop then bring Kricketune down with it. Tune may be more useful utility wise, but in terms of dealing with hazard removers, Leavanny is actually more competent than Tune at doing so. Spinners are currently favored over Defoggers for the most part, and Leavanny has its way of dealing with three of the most viable ones while Kricketune can do jack shit against them. Both Webbers are struggling a lot in the meta tbh.

to B-

Granbull should probably even drop to C+ lol. Who ever makes a team and think 'oh!! Granbull can work there!'. It's more of a Pokemon you build around imo. Granbull is one of those Pokemon that seems nice on paper, but does nothing in games.

Granbull still stands as one of the best Fighting responses in the tier. It has good support options such as Heal Bell, Roar, and Thunder Wave, and has amongst the strongest offensive presence amongst NU walls, meaning offensive teams without a good resist can find themselves hard pressed to continue switching into this thing. Lack of reliable recovery is a real bummer though, so a drop to B is not unprecedented.

vileplume: b+ -> b

This I'm more willing to go through. Fire and Psychic Pokemon are everywhere, and make life much harder for Vileplume as a result. Its weaknesses are rather easy to exploit, and really wants a defensive spread to even wall the stuff it is supposed to. That said, it still has high offensive presence for a wall which is good news and still has decent support options, and the fact that more and more Fighting-type Pokemon are forgoing Ice Punch for Earthquake means Plume can often hardwall the majority of them.

simipour: b -> d+ hello why the fuck is this b LOL

I really wouldn't overrate this thing; good initial Speed is what sets it apart from the likes of Ludicolo, Gorebyss, and Samurott. Access to Nasty Plot keeps its threat level high too. It should drop, but it's not worse than, I dunno, Frogadier @_@.

qwilfish: b+ -> b
garbodor: b+ -> a-

I'm not exactly sure what sets them apart so much that they warrant such a huge difference in ranking now. Is it because Garb has more effective coverage, because I would say Qwilfish's hazard setting abilities are on par with Garbodor since they can set up on much the same stuff. Qwil has moves such as Thunder Wave and Haze to blow sweeps, while Garb relies on Rocky Helmet and Aftermath to do so. Qwilfish's speed and access to Taunt and Destiny Bond allows it to run speed investment and make a more effective hazard lead for offensive teams, as opposed to Garb which doesn't mesh nearly as well on those teams.

Addressing Dentricos's suggestions:

D- ---> C-

D- ---> D

These two Pokemon suffer from the same problem: being almost totally outclassed by Pokemon that are way better at their main jobs. Doesn't matter how good these Pokemon are, as long as something else does them better, you almost always want to be using those better Pokes instead (see: Illumise). Armaldo's bulk is undermined by the fact that it resists practically nothing, while Gigalith competes with Crustle and Golem; Golem solidly outclassing the latter even last Gen. I'd even go as far as outright removing Gigalith from the rankings.

D+ ---> D

You are right that this thing salvages itself simply by not being outclassed, but unless you managed to Frisk this thing, you have no idea what it could possible Switcheroo onto you. Bulky Pokemon risk being Tricked a Scarf or Vest, while fast Pokemon can get crippled by a slowing item, or even just Thunder Wave. Lopunny offers decent support with Encore, Magic Coat, and is the fastest user of Healing Wish in the tier. It can even be a Baton Passer with Cosmic Power, yet another unique niche that it isn't bad at. Its main problem is that it can only do so much, but Healing Wish means it is almost never deadweight.

 

[Brawlfest]

Scyther to A- / B+. I have no doubt in my mind that Scyther should be rated amongst the top tier pokemon in the tier, and although it demands a lot of support, the benefits you get from its costs are truly outstanding. Scyther's combination of high attack, high speed, and high defenses are incredibly uncommon in the NU tier, and it is actually incredibly versatile, being able to use both Bulky SD / SD Pass, or a very powerful Choiced set all to extreme effectivity. As long as your team can afford to remove SR, there isn't reason not to use Scyther, it is absolutely amazing. IMO A- accounts for its severe weakness, but also acknowledges how effective it is in the current meta. I'm going to tag Kiyo for further backing, he has more experience than I with it anyways.

 

[Dentricos]

I have no doubt in my mind that Scyther should be rated amongst the top tier pokemon in the tier, and although it demands a lot of support, the benefits you get from its costs are truly outstanding

I do agree it should be B viability but I feel like not only does it require a lot of support, but it does struggle getting passed things live steel types... or even granbull. However it is good with the right support and def deserves over B-

 

[Blast]

I'm not exactly sure what sets them apart so much that they warrant such a huge difference in ranking now. Is it because Garb has more effective coverage, because I would say Qwilfish's hazard setting abilities are on par with Garbodor since they can set up on much the same stuff. Qwil has moves such as Thunder Wave and Haze to blow sweeps, while Garb relies on Rocky Helmet and Aftermath to do so. Qwilfish's speed and access to Taunt and Destiny Bond allows it to run speed investment and make a more effective hazard lead for offensive teams, as opposed to Garb which doesn't mesh nearly as well on those teams.

Garbodor is honestly a lot better than Qwilfish when it comes to bulky Spikes-stacking. Garbo's mono-Poison typing is a lot more useful in this meta than Qwilfish's Water / Poison because it resists Grass, which combined with its higher special bulk is really important for checking Sceptile / Lilligant / Leafeon / etc and take more hits in general. Qwilfish's Water typing isn't really that great for it because it can't make very good use out of the resistances provided; it can't check special Water- and Fire-types because of its piss poor special bulk and even physical Waters it can't really beat because it can't do anything back. It does have a small niche with its bigger utility movepool, but tbh I think Qwilfish's rank should be more based around the lead set than the defensive one (though I don't use that set much so I won't delve too much into its particular ranking). As for Garbodor, it should definitely be A- or even A since it's by far the best and most consistent Spiker for bulky offense and balance, always sets up Spikes and provides a ton of utility

 

[Punchshroom]

Garbodor is honestly a lot better than Qwilfish when it comes to bulky Spikes-stacking. Garbo's mono-Poison typing is a lot more useful in this meta than Qwilfish's Water / Poison because it resists Grass, which combined with its higher special bulk is really important for checking Sceptile / Lilligant / Leafeon / etc and take more hits in general. Qwilfish's Water typing isn't really that great for it because it can't make very good use out of the resistances provided; it can't check special Water- and Fire-types because of its piss poor special bulk and even physical Waters it can't really beat because it can't do anything back. It does have a small niche with its bigger utility movepool, but tbh I think Qwilfish's rank should be more based around the lead set than the defensive one (though I don't use that set much so I won't delve too much into its particular ranking). As for Garbodor, it should definitely be A- or even A since it's by far the best and most consistent Spiker for bulky offense and balance, always sets up Spikes and provides a ton of utility

Yeah I figured the Grass resistance had something to do with it, since I too at one point considered Garbo to set up Spikes all over Vileplume. That said, I still don't think Qwilfish should drop, and I am a tad skeptical at Garbo rising above Crustle.

 

[soulgazer]

Yeah I figured the Grass resistance had something to do with it, since I too at one point considered Garbo to set up Spikes all over Vileplume. That said, I still don't think Qwilfish should drop, and I am a tad skeptical at Garbo rising above Crustle.

How? Crustle and Garbodor aren't even used on the same type of teams so why would one's viability affect the other?

 

[Punchshroom]

How? Crustle and Garbodor aren't even used on the same type of teams so why would one's viability affect the other?

That's the thing: is Garbodor more successful on balance / stall than Crustle is on HO?

 

[Ares]

That's the thing: is Garbodor more successful on balance / stall than Crustle is on HO?

I'd say yes, the meta has adapted quite well to the Crustle HO meta with plenty of options to counter Crustle and keep hazards off of the field, while Garbodor can come in multiple times throughout a match and set up hazards.

[Insert obligatory Soulgazer edit here]

 

[Kiyo]

Scyther to A- / B+. I have no doubt in my mind that Scyther should be rated amongst the top tier pokemon in the tier, and although it demands a lot of support, the benefits you get from its costs are truly outstanding. Scyther's combination of high attack, high speed, and high defenses are incredibly uncommon in the NU tier, and it is actually incredibly versatile, being able to use both Bulky SD / SD Pass, or a very powerful Choiced set all to extreme effectivity. As long as your team can afford to remove SR, there isn't reason not to use Scyther, it is absolutely amazing. IMO A- accounts for its severe weakness, but also acknowledges how effective it is in the current meta. I'm going to tag Kiyo for further backing, he has more experience than I with it anyways.

Yeah Scyther is honestly one of the biggest threats in the entire tier. I've pretty much used this thing on every really successful team I've had this generation, and no matter what the set it always seems to put in work. I understand that a 4x weakness to stealth rock screams that it needs support, but hazard control is so freaking easy in this tier that's far from its biggest flaw. I've had the most success with Choice Variants of scyther, utilizing scythers insane power and speed. But I've also used defensive and swords dance variants to great success. (I know FLCL has been toying around with spdef sd scyther recently to some success) There are few switch ins to +2 and/or CB Aerial Ace in the tier, and the latter set can simply u-turn out on the few that can. Scyther's great speed tier allows it to check a ton of threats in the tier as well, things like Typhlosion, Ninetales, Adamant Sceptile and Jynx to name a few. Insane type coverage with Bug Flying Dark Fighting hits absolutely anything you could want for super effective damage, effectively letting you choose your counters. Perhaps the best part about this mon is the unpredictability, scarf Rotom can be OHKO'd early in the match by a scarf scythers knock off, and if you mispredict the set on either CB or SD you could end up losing a valuable member or getting swept.

tl;dr If you're not using Scyther, you should be. A- is fair considering its great speed tier, attack stat, bulk with evio, type coverage, and unpredictablility. But if the 4x hazard weakness is really that much of a drawback B+ makes sense.

 

[Pooch13]

Yeah Scyther is honestly one of the biggest threats in the entire tier. I've pretty much used this thing on every really successful team I've had this generation, and no matter what the set it always seems to put in work. I understand that a 4x weakness to stealth rock screams that it needs support, but hazard control is so freaking easy in this tier that's far from its biggest flaw. I've had the most success with Choice Variants of scyther, utilizing scythers insane power and speed. But I've also used defensive and swords dance variants to great success. (I know FLCL has been toying around with spdef sd scyther recently to some success) There are few switch ins to +2 and/or CB Aerial Ace in the tier, and the latter set can simply u-turn out on the few that can. Scyther's great speed tier allows it to check a ton of threats in the tier as well, things like Typhlosion, Ninetales, Adamant Sceptile and Jynx to name a few. Insane type coverage with Bug Flying Dark Fighting hits absolutely anything you could want for super effective damage, effectively letting you choose your counters. Perhaps the best part about this mon is the unpredictability, scarf Rotom can be OHKO'd early in the match by a scarf scythers knock off, and if you mispredict the set on either CB or SD you could end up losing a valuable member or getting swept.

tl;dr If you're not using Scyther, you should be. A- is fair considering its great speed tier, attack stat, bulk with evio, type coverage, and unpredictablility. But if the 4x hazard weakness is really that much of a drawback B+ makes sense.

Also technician boosted quick attacks are kewl on the CB set to check faster crippled mons or avoid being sucker punched, im up for scyther to move up too.

 

[Brawlfest]

That's the thing: is Garbodor more successful on balance / stall than Crustle is on HO?

Yes.
Garb + Toad / Donner is way better than Crustle on balance / bulky offense. Being able to set through the entire match, packing Toxic Spikes, having better defensive synergy, etc. I would 99.9% of the time use Garb > Crustle on Bulky Offense.

 

[Punchshroom]

Yes.
Garb + Toad / Donner is way better than Crustle on balance / bulky offense. Being able to set through the entire match, packing Toxic Spikes, having better defensive synergy, etc. I would 99.9% of the time use Garb > Crustle on Bulky Offense.

Brawl, I think you misunderstood me there...look at what you quoted again more carefully.