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Pet Mod Roulettemons 2 (Now Playable!)
- Thread starter DuoM2
- Start date
Alright, win goes to Attack Jump Kick. Fairly straightforward. I plan on doing at least three of these buff slates before the meta gets is full playtesting period, and I will run a big tournament for that, but next voting round I'm going to ask people for their suggestions for what mon (or mons) to do next. Otherwise, the spreadsheet will be updated shortly.
Buff Slate 2 - Goosceon
Goosceon is, to be completely blunt, a Pokemon I don't know why we voted in. There are a few sets that I could see being appealing for it but they both fall flat for one reason or another. Its very good natural special bulk with Solid Rock, insane Speed tier, and access to Fillet Away might make offensive sets look appealing, especially when backed by Ghost STAB and Close Combat, but base 87 Attack and its weakness to hazards is going to make these sets exceedingly difficult to pull off. In addition, when the meta was last playable, Slowghast was notably one of the best Pokemon in the tier and completely hard counters this, and the generally extreme statlines of this meta will make boosting sets easier to soft check by accident. Its access to Stone Axe, Toxic Spikes, and the aforementioned bulk might make bulkier sets look appealing at a glance, but a lack of healing and general susceptibility to chip damage would make it impossible to keep healthy over any elongated period of time and would make it impossible to truly answer anything. Both of these sets are close to working and could use just a minor change or two, so a new move might be perfect to fix that!
That's about it! Similar amount of time as usual. See you then!
Buff Slate 2 - Goosceon
NAME: Sunny Tantrum
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 48
EFFECTS: Usually goes first. Makes Contact. Punching move. (Mach Punch)
NAME: Gastro Charge
TYPE: Ghost
BASE POWER: 85
ACCURACY: 95
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 32
EFFECTS: Scatters coins. (Pay Day)
NAME: Searing Daze
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 90
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 64
EFFECTS: Following Fighting-type and Normal-type moves will now hit Ghost-types. Changes to evasiveness are ignored. (Foresight)
NAME: Snipe Jealousy
TYPE: Ghost
BASE POWER: 105
ACCURACY: 80
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 48
EFFECTS: Changes user's type to match its first move. (Conversion)
NAME: Milk Slide
TYPE: Flying
BASE POWER: 130
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: 30% chance to paralyze the target. Makes Contact. (Body Slam)
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 48
EFFECTS: Usually goes first. Makes Contact. Punching move. (Mach Punch)
NAME: Gastro Charge
TYPE: Ghost
BASE POWER: 85
ACCURACY: 95
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 32
EFFECTS: Scatters coins. (Pay Day)
NAME: Searing Daze
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 90
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 64
EFFECTS: Following Fighting-type and Normal-type moves will now hit Ghost-types. Changes to evasiveness are ignored. (Foresight)
NAME: Snipe Jealousy
TYPE: Ghost
BASE POWER: 105
ACCURACY: 80
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 48
EFFECTS: Changes user's type to match its first move. (Conversion)
NAME: Milk Slide
TYPE: Flying
BASE POWER: 130
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: 30% chance to paralyze the target. Makes Contact. (Body Slam)
Milk Slide is imo the only choice. Having a free 130 BP STAB move will make waves in regards to damage output after a Fillet Away, or even in the obnoxious 30% para. Sunny Tantrum is the next best thing, and while priority is good, passing up on real STAB will hurt this mon more.
So some talk on Discord made me realize that RestTalk + Victory Dance sets may not be bad for this. I don't know what kind of anti-boosting stuff balance teams will ultimately want to run outside of Slowghast which definitely still answers this, and a set like that could invite in stuff like Stunecko and Chillsphere because of how long they'd end up taking to fully get going. There are plenty of things like Radiore and Barracoth that would likely answer this very solidly regardless but might not be prominent in the final meta. This set also will probably do fine into offense anyways because of the bulk and Speed, plus having Ghost as your sole attacking move is definitely not that bad. This set is not enough for me to say it'll be outright good, but if we had that talk on Discord before I put this slate out, I would've probably chosen something else to put here. My thought process was to only give a new move to stuff we're very confident would not have a niche in this meta otherwise and this might end up with one. This is why I really need feedback for stuff like this - I'm not going to have perfect insight by myself. Fortunately though most of these moves don't really target this thing's weaknesses so I could still see people wanting one of these.
Sunny Tantrum: I wrote up this big thing before that talk about how Fire is imperfect as an additional coverage type, just worse than Fighting in this context, and how it could've been interesting to see this as a Ghost-type move. As a Fire-type move though I think this could be an alternative to Shadow Bone on those mono attacking RestTalk Victory Dance sets. It's slightly less powerful than it and makes you lose very badly to Komodung, but does have the added benefits of more PP, priority that may come into play before you boost, and a much better matchup into Chillsphere, which you probably lose to otherwise. I do think this move would be an alright other option for this Pokemon, definitely a boost but maybe not the biggest boost here.
Gastro Charge: How did it make a Ghost-type move that's worse than Shadow Bone? Just for the record, if you don't think Goosceon needs a buff, please don't vote for this and just vote None instead. Adding this move in that case would just add pointless clutter to the spreadsheet.
Searing Daze: This move doesn't really do anything for Goosceon. On more standard sets you don't suddenly hit any Ghost-types that well with Close Combat, and as I said before you don't need Fire coverage that much. You can't even 3HKO Slowghast with Close Combat which is kind of sad. If you want a really simple and honest Fire-type coverage move for this thing then I guess the move would do that but Close Combat will be better to run nine times out of ten. Pass.
Snipe Jealousy: This is indeed a stronger Ghost STAB with more PP. Note that if your first move is Ghost-type or Flying-type, the effect will fail. Ghost STAB is kinda important to this Pokemon in my eyes so I don't see the secondary effect being that helpful for it. It still is a stronger Ghost-type move though, which can never be a bad thing to have. I don't think it'll see use over Shadow Bone over the set I mentioned just for the sake of higher accuracy but I guess it's cool if you've got your eyes on other sets for this thing.
Milk Slide: Definitely the strongest move here, even ignoring the secondary effect. With the secondary effect this move goes from kinda crazy to very crazy. Flying is definitely the worst type of the bunch to run for those mono attacking sets I mentioned before so I don't even know if this would be that big of a boost to those sets. Other more standard sets that normally don't have much merit in my opinion would see a great boost from this, 80 BP to 130 is a massive jump, enough to give other Pokemon legitimate reason to fear this thing when it's not boosted. If you think this Pokemon needs a big boost then this is your go-to option, straight up.
Sunny Tantrum: I wrote up this big thing before that talk about how Fire is imperfect as an additional coverage type, just worse than Fighting in this context, and how it could've been interesting to see this as a Ghost-type move. As a Fire-type move though I think this could be an alternative to Shadow Bone on those mono attacking RestTalk Victory Dance sets. It's slightly less powerful than it and makes you lose very badly to Komodung, but does have the added benefits of more PP, priority that may come into play before you boost, and a much better matchup into Chillsphere, which you probably lose to otherwise. I do think this move would be an alright other option for this Pokemon, definitely a boost but maybe not the biggest boost here.
Gastro Charge: How did it make a Ghost-type move that's worse than Shadow Bone? Just for the record, if you don't think Goosceon needs a buff, please don't vote for this and just vote None instead. Adding this move in that case would just add pointless clutter to the spreadsheet.
Searing Daze: This move doesn't really do anything for Goosceon. On more standard sets you don't suddenly hit any Ghost-types that well with Close Combat, and as I said before you don't need Fire coverage that much. You can't even 3HKO Slowghast with Close Combat which is kind of sad. If you want a really simple and honest Fire-type coverage move for this thing then I guess the move would do that but Close Combat will be better to run nine times out of ten. Pass.
Snipe Jealousy: This is indeed a stronger Ghost STAB with more PP. Note that if your first move is Ghost-type or Flying-type, the effect will fail. Ghost STAB is kinda important to this Pokemon in my eyes so I don't see the secondary effect being that helpful for it. It still is a stronger Ghost-type move though, which can never be a bad thing to have. I don't think it'll see use over Shadow Bone over the set I mentioned just for the sake of higher accuracy but I guess it's cool if you've got your eyes on other sets for this thing.
Milk Slide: Definitely the strongest move here, even ignoring the secondary effect. With the secondary effect this move goes from kinda crazy to very crazy. Flying is definitely the worst type of the bunch to run for those mono attacking sets I mentioned before so I don't even know if this would be that big of a boost to those sets. Other more standard sets that normally don't have much merit in my opinion would see a great boost from this, 80 BP to 130 is a massive jump, enough to give other Pokemon legitimate reason to fear this thing when it's not boosted. If you think this Pokemon needs a big boost then this is your go-to option, straight up.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Milk Slide > Sunny Tantrum > Snipe Jealousy > Searing Daze > None
As for mons I think could use buffs. Protola first and foremost, then Teleyle.
As for mons I think could use buffs. Protola first and foremost, then Teleyle.
Milk Slide > Sunny Tantrum > Sniper Jealousy > Searing Daze > Gastro Charge
Agree with Protola, maybe Gastroal
Agree with Protola, maybe Gastroal
None
Sunny Tantrum
Milk Slide
Sunny Tantrum
Milk Slide
Meant to give the 24 hour warning yesterday but apparently I forgot. Oops. Milk Slide won, once again pretty obvious. I'll be making a tab for moves on the spreadsheet shortly.
Should mention I might also be doing Gastroal before pausing for meta developments. Otherwise, you have a few days to post about these!
Move Buff Slate 3 - Protola
Protola was a Pokemon I was just a little bit iffy about before but still held a bit of confidence that it would be fine, although it appears most people hold a more negative opinion of it than I do which I totally understand. Protola's main methods of dealing damage all require it to use its middling Sp. Atk stat which makes its damage unimpressive at best against most things you'll see in this meta, and it doesn't help that Power Gem is only 80 base power and its only coverage options are Thunder Cage and Blizzard. Multiscale and Rapid Spin are both nice to have, but if you're using it for any defensive stuff then its pure Rock typing may look unappealing, since you're stacking a bunch of common weaknesses and there are seven other Rock-types to choose from in this meta. Because of this, I could get most people just straight up seeing zero appeal to adding it to a team and could see it deserving a buff as such.
NAME: Lava Play
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 70
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 8
EFFECT: 10% chance to raise all stats by 1 stage, excluding accuracy and evasion. (Ancient Power)
NAME: Leaf Bash
TYPE: Grass
BASE POWER: 90
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 24
EFFECT: The target can no longer choose the same move twice in a row. Bypasses Substitute. (Torment)
NAME: Fell Spray
TYPE: Rock
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 32
EFFECT: Lowers the target's accuracy by 1 stage. (Smokescreen)
NAME: Perish Throw
TYPE: Rock
BASE POWER: 90
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
PP: 24
EFFECT: Hits 2-5 times in one turn. (Spike Cannon)
NAME: Trop Stinger
TYPE: Grass
BASE POWER: 120
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 16
EFFECT: In Doubles, can be used alongside Fire Pledge and Water Pledge for additional effects. (Grass Pledge)
TYPE: Fire
BASE POWER: 70
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 8
EFFECT: 10% chance to raise all stats by 1 stage, excluding accuracy and evasion. (Ancient Power)
NAME: Leaf Bash
TYPE: Grass
BASE POWER: 90
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 24
EFFECT: The target can no longer choose the same move twice in a row. Bypasses Substitute. (Torment)
NAME: Fell Spray
TYPE: Rock
BASE POWER: 110
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 32
EFFECT: Lowers the target's accuracy by 1 stage. (Smokescreen)
NAME: Perish Throw
TYPE: Rock
BASE POWER: 90
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
PP: 24
EFFECT: Hits 2-5 times in one turn. (Spike Cannon)
NAME: Trop Stinger
TYPE: Grass
BASE POWER: 120
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Special
PP: 16
EFFECT: In Doubles, can be used alongside Fire Pledge and Water Pledge for additional effects. (Grass Pledge)
Lava Play: Special coverage is nice. Hits Steels and Grasses.
Leaf Bash: Special coverage is nice. Hits Grounds and Waters.
Fell Spray: Stronger STAB is nice.
Perish Throw: The damage output is pretty good. Protola will still have movepool issues, but at least it has one big strong move to dent something.
Trop Stinger: Special coverage is nice. Hits Grounds and Waters.
Leaf Bash: Special coverage is nice. Hits Grounds and Waters.
Fell Spray: Stronger STAB is nice.
Perish Throw: The damage output is pretty good. Protola will still have movepool issues, but at least it has one big strong move to dent something.
Trop Stinger: Special coverage is nice. Hits Grounds and Waters.
I have a lot to say about some of these choices, especially the two Rock-type ones.
Lava Play: Pretty weak move. Despite this it would technically be a buff in a vacuum because it could now maybe shift to Magnet Pull to trap Teleyle or something. I haven't calced anything but I'm just going to say that I don't see that helping it too much. 70 base power is painfully weak, and I know Specs might change that but there would still be a bunch of problems with that. This would not be that strong for a Choice Specs user thanks to relying on a 70 BP non-STAB move so it would be particularly exploitable after knocking out whatever Steels you do manage to snag. This is completely ignoring that it can't get Giranium at all, making it basically impossible to compete with Coyotail, who can trap basically every Steel we have and still fend for itself afterwards. Not a good choice here.
Leaf Bash: Just looking down the list here I'm not seeing much of anything that Grass as a coverage type would help with except for Allinyte but I don't think that thing is very good to begin with. All of our most noteworthy Ground-types have a secondary type resisting Grass and weak to Rock and you have Thunder Cage for Waters anyways. If you use this it's for the secondary effect but I'm struggling to think of any cases where it would be a legitimately good button to click as opposed to just being a minor inconvenience when Protola would use it. Maybe on a different Pokemon this could be nice but I'm not seeing it here.
Fell Spray: So this is our only standard big damage Rock-type move...and to be honest, I don't like it at all. This would definitely be a very appreciated buff for its damage output much like what we saw with some of Goosceon's options. However, would you really want to buff a Pokemon like this if you'd just be making it extremely uncompetitive at the same time? The meta doesn't really have any common abilities or anything similar that would help against a guaranteed accuracy drop. Multiscale would allows this to practically always use this move AT LEAST once, potentially much more than that thanks to 50% healing and its high Speed stat. Every application of this just sounds obnoxious at best and uncompetitive enough for the move to get banned at worst. Even if it ends up being fine do you really want a Pokemon that can always eat one hit from your cleaner, chunk you while dropping your accuracy, and then basically force you to either switch or roll for a minimum one-in-three miss every turn you continue to use it? I certainly wouldn't.
Trop Stinger: Another move that was given a high base power, nice. Grass is still not a very helpful type for coverage though. Even looking this as a "second STAB move" since it's just as strong as Power Gem there's just nothing relevant that it does for you because Grass is not good on its own and does not synergize with what Protola already has here. You hit Vaporwave, Termitan, and Falcola slightly better than Thunder Cage or Blizzard can, and I guess Baeye if you would count offensive stuff you do okay into anyways and Allinyte if you count irrelevant stuff. This is not an adequate buff.
Perish Throw: So, I saved Perish Throw for last because I have by far the most to say about it. I've been kind of dreading the multihit secondary effect because most multihit moves are 25 base power tops, so I made this physical expecting 26 base Attack to not be enough. Despite that, it's even stronger than Power Gem when both are invested. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a move that ranges between 360 and 450 base power with Loaded Dice would be good (or minimum 180 BP without it but I highly doubt this doesn't run Loaded Dice here). Just for reference...
252 Atk Protola Perish Throw (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 252-300 (62.3 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming Loaded Dice)
252 SpA Protola Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 115-136 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 96.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
This will be enough to 2HKO like your Melthogs or Koalpuffs that answer your normal sets very hard, Steels still answer both very solidly and there's some plenty of bulky stuff that could do alright into both sets even if not perfect. This would absolutely be an adequate buff to its damage and would make it legitimately threatening for something as fast as it is with that much utility. You would need to cut heavily into Sp. Atk investment to get any reasonable damage though and that would make Thunder Cage and Blizzard's damage too low to see usage, maybe outside of running Thunder Cage for the secondary effect but I doubt it.
Here's the thing for me though. If this move gets voted in, Protola loses a majority of the stuff that made it unique in this meta as a Pokemon. The Multiscale shenanigans this Pokemon would need to pull really like running Heavy-Duty Boots which you can't do anymore because you really want Loaded Dice now. Plus, Thunder Cage probably drops off completely since the damage is worthless, and Protola's movepool was never its strong suit so you're really going to be stretching to reach four moves. My best guess for a set now would be Perish Throw / Rapid Spin / Morning Sun / probably either Substitute for dodging status or Thunder Cage for the trapping as opposed to the damage.
Maybe I'm just fixating too hard on certain parts of this Pokemon, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't see this thing pushing Multiscale as much as it did before if it gets this move. It'll definitely still be its best ability but being able to run Boots with Multiscale is very different from not being able to run Boots with Multiscale and not being able to use Thunder Cage offensively changes a bunch for me as well. If the Multiscale stuff isn't prevalent this just becomes bootleg Maushold which sounds pretty lame to me. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this but I'd rather just leave this thing how it currently is and re-evaluate it after further playtesting and with a hopefully better set of moves to choose from. If this thing gets a slate with a stronger STAB move (not Fell Spray) or maybe Ground coverage I could see it becoming a whole lot better, and that's ignoring the possibility of some crazy secondary effect like Leech Seed, Safeguard, Sandstorm etc.
Lava Play: Pretty weak move. Despite this it would technically be a buff in a vacuum because it could now maybe shift to Magnet Pull to trap Teleyle or something. I haven't calced anything but I'm just going to say that I don't see that helping it too much. 70 base power is painfully weak, and I know Specs might change that but there would still be a bunch of problems with that. This would not be that strong for a Choice Specs user thanks to relying on a 70 BP non-STAB move so it would be particularly exploitable after knocking out whatever Steels you do manage to snag. This is completely ignoring that it can't get Giranium at all, making it basically impossible to compete with Coyotail, who can trap basically every Steel we have and still fend for itself afterwards. Not a good choice here.
Leaf Bash: Just looking down the list here I'm not seeing much of anything that Grass as a coverage type would help with except for Allinyte but I don't think that thing is very good to begin with. All of our most noteworthy Ground-types have a secondary type resisting Grass and weak to Rock and you have Thunder Cage for Waters anyways. If you use this it's for the secondary effect but I'm struggling to think of any cases where it would be a legitimately good button to click as opposed to just being a minor inconvenience when Protola would use it. Maybe on a different Pokemon this could be nice but I'm not seeing it here.
Fell Spray: So this is our only standard big damage Rock-type move...and to be honest, I don't like it at all. This would definitely be a very appreciated buff for its damage output much like what we saw with some of Goosceon's options. However, would you really want to buff a Pokemon like this if you'd just be making it extremely uncompetitive at the same time? The meta doesn't really have any common abilities or anything similar that would help against a guaranteed accuracy drop. Multiscale would allows this to practically always use this move AT LEAST once, potentially much more than that thanks to 50% healing and its high Speed stat. Every application of this just sounds obnoxious at best and uncompetitive enough for the move to get banned at worst. Even if it ends up being fine do you really want a Pokemon that can always eat one hit from your cleaner, chunk you while dropping your accuracy, and then basically force you to either switch or roll for a minimum one-in-three miss every turn you continue to use it? I certainly wouldn't.
Trop Stinger: Another move that was given a high base power, nice. Grass is still not a very helpful type for coverage though. Even looking this as a "second STAB move" since it's just as strong as Power Gem there's just nothing relevant that it does for you because Grass is not good on its own and does not synergize with what Protola already has here. You hit Vaporwave, Termitan, and Falcola slightly better than Thunder Cage or Blizzard can, and I guess Baeye if you would count offensive stuff you do okay into anyways and Allinyte if you count irrelevant stuff. This is not an adequate buff.
Perish Throw: So, I saved Perish Throw for last because I have by far the most to say about it. I've been kind of dreading the multihit secondary effect because most multihit moves are 25 base power tops, so I made this physical expecting 26 base Attack to not be enough. Despite that, it's even stronger than Power Gem when both are invested. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a move that ranges between 360 and 450 base power with Loaded Dice would be good (or minimum 180 BP without it but I highly doubt this doesn't run Loaded Dice here). Just for reference...
252 Atk Protola Perish Throw (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 252-300 (62.3 - 74.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming Loaded Dice)
252 SpA Protola Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 115-136 (28.4 - 33.6%) -- 96.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
This will be enough to 2HKO like your Melthogs or Koalpuffs that answer your normal sets very hard, Steels still answer both very solidly and there's some plenty of bulky stuff that could do alright into both sets even if not perfect. This would absolutely be an adequate buff to its damage and would make it legitimately threatening for something as fast as it is with that much utility. You would need to cut heavily into Sp. Atk investment to get any reasonable damage though and that would make Thunder Cage and Blizzard's damage too low to see usage, maybe outside of running Thunder Cage for the secondary effect but I doubt it.
Here's the thing for me though. If this move gets voted in, Protola loses a majority of the stuff that made it unique in this meta as a Pokemon. The Multiscale shenanigans this Pokemon would need to pull really like running Heavy-Duty Boots which you can't do anymore because you really want Loaded Dice now. Plus, Thunder Cage probably drops off completely since the damage is worthless, and Protola's movepool was never its strong suit so you're really going to be stretching to reach four moves. My best guess for a set now would be Perish Throw / Rapid Spin / Morning Sun / probably either Substitute for dodging status or Thunder Cage for the trapping as opposed to the damage.
Maybe I'm just fixating too hard on certain parts of this Pokemon, and maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't see this thing pushing Multiscale as much as it did before if it gets this move. It'll definitely still be its best ability but being able to run Boots with Multiscale is very different from not being able to run Boots with Multiscale and not being able to use Thunder Cage offensively changes a bunch for me as well. If the Multiscale stuff isn't prevalent this just becomes bootleg Maushold which sounds pretty lame to me. I don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this but I'd rather just leave this thing how it currently is and re-evaluate it after further playtesting and with a hopefully better set of moves to choose from. If this thing gets a slate with a stronger STAB move (not Fell Spray) or maybe Ground coverage I could see it becoming a whole lot better, and that's ignoring the possibility of some crazy secondary effect like Leech Seed, Safeguard, Sandstorm etc.
Trop Stinger > None > Perish Throw > Fell Spray > Leaf Bash > Lava Play
Last edited:
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Perish Throw > Trop Stinger > Leaf Bash > Lava Play > None
Fell Spray is uncompetitive cringe
Fell Spray is uncompetitive cringe
None
Perish Throw
Perish Throw
And so None wins. Protola will not be buffed for the time being, although again, I'd be glad to revisit it after playtesting if it still lacks any results by then.
The final slate before I'd like to have a major playtesting period, here's Gastroal. Take a Buzzwole, add some special bulk in place of recovery, add some Speed in place of its entire offensive presence, and add Defog in place of Toxic. This Pokemon is the functional equivalent of pre-Sticky Web Shuckle from a competitive standpoint. It technically has some good defensive capabilities, but it's all undermined by a lack of recovery, a typing that doesn't really help it here, and some extreme passiveness. Because it can't actually do anything back to its opponents outside of removing their item, it cannot truly answer the things that it technically should be able to serve as a short-term answer for even without a recovery move and would instead turn into a Defog machine that you have no reason to choose over other options. So here we are.
Similar amount of time as usual!
Move Buff Slate 4 - Gastroal
The final slate before I'd like to have a major playtesting period, here's Gastroal. Take a Buzzwole, add some special bulk in place of recovery, add some Speed in place of its entire offensive presence, and add Defog in place of Toxic. This Pokemon is the functional equivalent of pre-Sticky Web Shuckle from a competitive standpoint. It technically has some good defensive capabilities, but it's all undermined by a lack of recovery, a typing that doesn't really help it here, and some extreme passiveness. Because it can't actually do anything back to its opponents outside of removing their item, it cannot truly answer the things that it technically should be able to serve as a short-term answer for even without a recovery move and would instead turn into a Defog machine that you have no reason to choose over other options. So here we are.
NAME: Trump Bell
TYPE: Bug
BASE POWER: 70
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: Base power increases by 20 for each of the user's stat boosts. (Stored Power)
NAME: Stuff Side Arm
TYPE: Fighting
BASE POWER: 85
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: 10% chance to Paralyze the target. (Thunderbolt)
NAME: Vice Bell
TYPE: Bug
BASE POWER: 100
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: Raises the user's Attack, Sp. Atk, and Speed by 2 stages, but lowers its Defense and Sp. Def by 1 stage. (Shell Smash)
NAME: Misty Block
TYPE: Fairy
BASE POWER: 100
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: Can only be used on the user's first active turn. +2 Priority. Makes contact. (First Impression)
NAME: Clear-Edge
TYPE: Fighting
BASE POWER: 75
ACCURACY: 85
CATEGORY: Special
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: 70% chance to raise the user's Sp. Atk by 1 stage. (Charge Beam)
TYPE: Bug
BASE POWER: 70
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: Base power increases by 20 for each of the user's stat boosts. (Stored Power)
NAME: Stuff Side Arm
TYPE: Fighting
BASE POWER: 85
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: 10% chance to Paralyze the target. (Thunderbolt)
NAME: Vice Bell
TYPE: Bug
BASE POWER: 100
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 24
EFFECTS: Raises the user's Attack, Sp. Atk, and Speed by 2 stages, but lowers its Defense and Sp. Def by 1 stage. (Shell Smash)
NAME: Misty Block
TYPE: Fairy
BASE POWER: 100
ACCURACY: 100
CATEGORY: Physical
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: Can only be used on the user's first active turn. +2 Priority. Makes contact. (First Impression)
NAME: Clear-Edge
TYPE: Fighting
BASE POWER: 75
ACCURACY: 85
CATEGORY: Special
MAX PP: 16
EFFECTS: 70% chance to raise the user's Sp. Atk by 1 stage. (Charge Beam)
Gastroal 144 73 116 66 93 108
Fighting Bug
Rocky Payload Soundproof Lingering Aroma
Moves: Sky Uppercut, Aura Sphere, X-Scissor, Bug Buzz, Trailblaze, Diamond Storm, Defog, Horn Leech, Bulk Up, Psyshield Bash, Psycho Cut, Earth Power, Reflect Type, Spiky Shield, Moongeist Beam, Poison Jab, Sunsteel Strike, Leaf Storm, Hyper Voice, Corrosive Gas, Hydro Cannon, Steamroller, Tar Shot, Heal Pulse, Present, Withdraw, Ruination, Signal Beam, Purify, Eternabeam, Scary Face, Forest's Curse, Burning Jealousy, Rock Smash, Retaliate, Astonish, Clamp, Mud Sport, Chilling Water, Role Play, Endure, Protect, Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Tera Blast
Fighting Bug
Rocky Payload Soundproof Lingering Aroma
Moves: Sky Uppercut, Aura Sphere, X-Scissor, Bug Buzz, Trailblaze, Diamond Storm, Defog, Horn Leech, Bulk Up, Psyshield Bash, Psycho Cut, Earth Power, Reflect Type, Spiky Shield, Moongeist Beam, Poison Jab, Sunsteel Strike, Leaf Storm, Hyper Voice, Corrosive Gas, Hydro Cannon, Steamroller, Tar Shot, Heal Pulse, Present, Withdraw, Ruination, Signal Beam, Purify, Eternabeam, Scary Face, Forest's Curse, Burning Jealousy, Rock Smash, Retaliate, Astonish, Clamp, Mud Sport, Chilling Water, Role Play, Endure, Protect, Rest, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Tera Blast
Alright, here are just thoughts, no calcs:
Trump Bell: If it wasn't bulky enough for me to think it could be immortal with bulk up sets, or bulky enough to live a hit after a couple of trailblazes, I would think this could work. I would think that a 70bp stored power clone would be somewhat balanced with just diamond storm or just Psyshield Bash, but not with trailblaze and bulk up. Maybe, leaning no.
Stuff Side Arm: Mid, although 10% more likely to hit and 10% more likely to paralyze. Harmless, but no.
Vice Bell: No. If we're making this mon a broken setup sweeper, I'd rather take the Trump Bell approach. Hitting something second and suddenly hitting first next turn with double power is very broken and very not fun. NO.
Misty Block: Honestly, kind of fun. A nice alternative to Gastroal's STABS if you're facing a dark type, but a little bit of priority in a pinch is something I like having on defensive mons. I think this would be a good addition. Yes.
Clear-Edge: Also a fun move, and probably the most powerful without being broken. 85% accuracy is kinda bad for a STAB, and I don't know how fast this mon is compared to the meta, so I think this could make it offensively threatening without breaking it. I have not calc'd with that 66 SpA though, but it does get special moves. Yes, and probably the best option here.
Trump Bell: 70 BP Bug type Power Trip. Does suffer a bit of 4MSS. Without Sky Uppercut you're walled by Steels, without Trailblaze you're possibly revenged, and without BU you're hitting like a dry sock. It's pretty bulky though, and a +2 Def Gastroal can tank Goosceon's Milk Slide from full health, which says a lot about our society. On paper, this seems really good, though it might struggle to have the same efficacy in practice.
Stuff Side Arm: It is an upgrade, though not by a lot. A decently mid option.
Vice Bell: 73 Atk is not a lot, but things will die at the hands(??) of the slug. The main difference between this and say something like Buffly (free Buffly) is that it has all 4 move slots for coverage, plus it can run a better item. Throw in something like Sunsteel Strike for Bellena and Allinyte and it can go on a rampage. The best option to wall this would be PhysDef steels like Radimite, which can tank +2 Sky Uppercut and threaten with a burn or poison. Don't think much else handles Vice Bell Gatroal.
Misty Block: Priority is useful I guess, but Gastroal is a bit too weak and misses out on several KOs, notably needing a Life Orb boost in order to guarantee an OHKO on a 4x weak Dragophy. Could be a useful emergency tool, but doesn't really improve Gastroal a whole lot.
Clear-Edge: It could work, but it's still kind of weak initially and can't do much against bulky stuff like Bellena and Zephyrelp if it isn't mixed with Diamond Storm. Moongeist Beam is nice to chunk Goosceon by 34-40% on the switch, but you're forced out afterwards. Bug/Ghost/Ground coverage does hit most things at least neutrally, but Gastroal is still kind of weak, and is reliant on RNG to be in its favour if it chooses to go this route.
Stuff Side Arm: It is an upgrade, though not by a lot. A decently mid option.
Vice Bell: 73 Atk is not a lot, but things will die at the hands(??) of the slug. The main difference between this and say something like Buffly (free Buffly) is that it has all 4 move slots for coverage, plus it can run a better item. Throw in something like Sunsteel Strike for Bellena and Allinyte and it can go on a rampage. The best option to wall this would be PhysDef steels like Radimite, which can tank +2 Sky Uppercut and threaten with a burn or poison. Don't think much else handles Vice Bell Gatroal.
Assuming Slowghast is 252 HP/252+ Def, and Gastroal is 252 Atk with no boosting item.
If Gastroal Vice Bells twice, Slowghast takes between 65.6% to 77.5% and KOs back with a +4 Shadow Ball into a -2 Gastroal, all good.
If Gastroal decides to Vice Bell into Diamond Storm instead, Slowghast takes between 65.3% to 77.3% and fails to KO a -1 Gastroal with +2 Shadow Ball if Gastroal is above 75.5%. Gastroal can Vice Bell again for the KO.
At +2 Atk, Gastroal's Diamond Storm rarely outdamage Slowghast's Shore Up and Leftovers recovery, so recover stalling is a potential option. But this then gives the Gastroal user an opportunity to boost up again. Slowghast would need to recover up to 97.9% of its HP in order to potentially live the next +4 hit at -2 Def, which has an 87.5% chance to KO.
Slowghast loses.
edit, because i forgor Opportunist only copies stat boosts
Turn 1, Gastroal sets up with Vice Bell as Slowghast switches in. Slowghast loses 16.4-19.5% and heals 6.25% from lefties, putting it at 86.75-89.85% HP.
Turn 2, Gastroal goes for another Vice Bell, Slowghast takes 32.8-38.5% as damage, leaving it at 48.25-57.05%, 54.5-63.3% after lefties. Slowghast KOs back with a +4 Shadow Ball on a -2 Gastroal. Slowghast wins.
Turn 2 redux, Gastroal uses Diamond Storm instead, Slowghast takes 32.3-38.2%, leaving it at 48.55-57.55%, 54.8-63.8% after lefties. Slowghast failes to KO a -1 Gastroal with +2 Shadow Ball, dealing at most 75.5%.
Turn 3, Gastroal uses Diamond Storm again, Slowghast is 22.85-37.75% after lefties. Slowghast will KO Gastroal with Shadow Ball. Slowghast wins.
Slowghast can then heal up on the next switch-in since it's at +2 Speed, only outsped by base 164 Speed, or 93 Speed with Scarf.
If Gastroal decides to Vice Bell into Diamond Storm instead, Slowghast takes between 65.3% to 77.3% and fails to KO a -1 Gastroal with +2 Shadow Ball if Gastroal is above 75.5%. Gastroal can Vice Bell again for the KO.
At +2 Atk, Gastroal's Diamond Storm rarely outdamage Slowghast's Shore Up and Leftovers recovery, so recover stalling is a potential option. But this then gives the Gastroal user an opportunity to boost up again. Slowghast would need to recover up to 97.9% of its HP in order to potentially live the next +4 hit at -2 Def, which has an 87.5% chance to KO.
Slowghast loses.
Turn 1, Gastroal sets up with Vice Bell as Slowghast switches in. Slowghast loses 16.4-19.5% and heals 6.25% from lefties, putting it at 86.75-89.85% HP.
Turn 2, Gastroal goes for another Vice Bell, Slowghast takes 32.8-38.5% as damage, leaving it at 48.25-57.05%, 54.5-63.3% after lefties. Slowghast KOs back with a +4 Shadow Ball on a -2 Gastroal. Slowghast wins.
Turn 2 redux, Gastroal uses Diamond Storm instead, Slowghast takes 32.3-38.2%, leaving it at 48.55-57.55%, 54.8-63.8% after lefties. Slowghast failes to KO a -1 Gastroal with +2 Shadow Ball, dealing at most 75.5%.
Turn 3, Gastroal uses Diamond Storm again, Slowghast is 22.85-37.75% after lefties. Slowghast will KO Gastroal with Shadow Ball. Slowghast wins.
Slowghast can then heal up on the next switch-in since it's at +2 Speed, only outsped by base 164 Speed, or 93 Speed with Scarf.
Misty Block: Priority is useful I guess, but Gastroal is a bit too weak and misses out on several KOs, notably needing a Life Orb boost in order to guarantee an OHKO on a 4x weak Dragophy. Could be a useful emergency tool, but doesn't really improve Gastroal a whole lot.
Clear-Edge: It could work, but it's still kind of weak initially and can't do much against bulky stuff like Bellena and Zephyrelp if it isn't mixed with Diamond Storm. Moongeist Beam is nice to chunk Goosceon by 34-40% on the switch, but you're forced out afterwards. Bug/Ghost/Ground coverage does hit most things at least neutrally, but Gastroal is still kind of weak, and is reliant on RNG to be in its favour if it chooses to go this route.
108 Speed puts Gastroal within the upper 50th percentile.
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