Resource Natdex OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers

adem

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A simple question about the Ghost-types.

Why is :Gengar: ranked beside :Aegislash:, and both are ranked above :Blacephalon:? Thank you.
(imo gengar should drop, but regardless of that) Gengar has a neat stallbreaker set, and its potency has been seen since the moment it got Nasty Plot. It is also relatibely easier to support since it doesnt have a Rocks weakness compared to Blaceph. Aegi has very neat defensive utility in checking strong breakers like Tapu Lele and Mega Medicham, while having a strong offensive presence.

Blacephalon is a relatively newly discovered breaker, and only recently have people discovered how scary it can be, and requires strong hazard support to function well. Furthermore, being Rocks weak as well as its low bulk, it doesnt have as much defensive utility as Aegislash.

Hope this answers your questions !
 
Not really sure where to ask this, because I'm new to Smogon forums and mainly play national dex:

Where can I find resources on how to play the turn by turn decision making of a match, like a replay analysis or someone narrating their thoughts while playing? For example, this video is along the lines of what I'm looking for where the focus is on why each play is being made each turn. A lot of the resources I can find on the Smogon forums are about teambuilding or a specific pokemon's role/viability, but it's difficult for me to find anything in regards to what move to press in the middle of a match or when to be switching to another pokemon. The more I play, the clearer it is to me that having a good team is only part of the battle, and I often feel kind of lost when it comes to piloting some of the teams. Thanks!

edit: upon further research i was able to find this and this, which may be useful for anyone else trying to find the same thing
 
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chimp

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Not really sure where to ask this, because I'm new to Smogon forums and mainly play national dex:

Where can I find resources on how to play the turn by turn decision making of a match, like a replay analysis or someone narrating their thoughts while playing? For example, this video is along the lines of what I'm looking for where the focus is on why each play is being made each turn. A lot of the resources I can find on the Smogon forums are about teambuilding or a specific pokemon's role/viability, but it's difficult for me to find anything in regards to what move to press in the middle of a match or when to be switching to another pokemon. The more I play, the clearer it is to me that having a good team is only part of the battle, and I often feel kind of lost when it comes to piloting some of the teams. Thanks!
To be honest your best bet for these kinds of videos is on YouTube itself. Pretty much all of blunder’s videos (the YouTuber from the link you posted) posts exclusively videos that you’re talking about, although with more of a focus on entertainment than education. PokeaimMD also has some good content along these lines, and often collabs with a blunder. Both players are successful in Smogon Tournmanets, too.

also off the top of my head I can think of the WBE, which, while not focused on OU, has some relatively high level gameplay. WBE is a draft league with 20-something players, and each player uploads live commentary for each of their matches on their channel, and usually a video detailing their process while team building and a retrospective on the battle itself. Again, it’s not focused on OU but should have enough content relevant to what you’re looking for. Wolfe Glick, one of the players in the WBE, has some videos where he analyses VGC matches, too, if that interests you.

Moreover, smogon has a tutoring service that you can sign up for. I know there are some discord servers (particularly in the draft community) that often team building and replay-review help, too, so doing some research on that front can be helpful as well. You can probably start here: https://discord.gg/XQ4x9gPV
 

Avery

Banned deucer.
How necessary is an electric inmunity in a team? Most electric type pokemon in the meta are used with hp ice, so I'm afraid that pokemon like garchomp or landorus can't be switch ins for those mons
every team still needs a ground type without exception, if you can’t block volt switch you’ll just get endlessly pivoted on and constantly remain on the back foot. you should still use electric checks like ferro alongside your ground type though, as smth like lando + ferro will handle koko / zapdos / rotom totally fine
 
Are there any Pokemon that the council plans to suspect down any time soon? I've seen a few people asking for a Torn-T or even a Zama-C suspect. The meta also seems stable with nothing much really going on. Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask this.
 
Can someone post an explanation/gameplan for each of the teams on the sample teams thread? I'm trying to find a team I like to go use on the ladder. Some of them I saw on the NDOU team bazaar, but not all of them are there.
 

Avery

Banned deucer.
apologies for poor format and grammar im on my phone

Are there any Pokemon that the council plans to suspect down any time soon? I've seen a few people asking for a Torn-T or even a Zama-C suspect. The meta also seems stable with nothing much really going on. Apologies if this isn't the right place to ask this.
we're gonna put out a survey prob this sunday to get community feedback but if anything itll probably be dragapult

Can someone post an explanation/gameplan for each of the teams on the sample teams thread? I'm trying to find a team I like to go use on the ladder. Some of them I saw on the NDOU team bazaar, but not all of them are there.
aye yuh

1- rain is very autopilot u have swampert and gren to beat offense and manaphy + pursuit peli to 6-0 stall plus offensive zappy is always a threat

2- u break with one of either maw or gren early and the other will clean up late, z move tran also helps both of them break thru things like fini and gliscor respectively

3- sciz traps shit like tran and pex so that clef can be an offensive threat and hydrei breaking midgame is helpful for scizor and clef lategame

4- u get spikes up and click sub with moltres and profit, latias is your lategame wincon but moltres usually does a ton of work early and midgame so long as u can get and keep spikes up

5- this has a great offense matchup w scarf lele and lop, ur probably gonna use kyurem early and try to clean lategame with scarf lele and lop since kyu breaks their checks

6- sciz lures tran and pex and z grass tran lures gastro and fini so cm flame clef can run thru teams once those mons are dealt with

i hope this helps pls pm me if u need more explanations @ avery#1092
 
Why isn't sleep a very popular strategy? I normally play RBY and I'm pretty sure it's been pretty nerfed since then but it seems to have the potential to force a switch or buy a turn at the minimum
 
Honestly sleep is just not that great because of the lack of users IMO, amoungus is arguably the best one as it deters grasses with the combo of poison stab for grasses and koko + fini and hp fire for ferrothorn, but it doesn't fit on a lot of teams due to it being slow and semi passive outside of sleep. Also koko's and fini's terrain completely blocking the move for teammates is hard to circumvent and mons like gliscgor completely stuff the strategy, it's not bad by any means, it's just hard to take advantage of due to lack of good setters and it being easy to stuff. Also sleep can last as few as one turn, and so even with aggressive play, it isn't always that potent as it's setter's cant take advantage of it directly most of the time. In short, sleep has it's place, but it's nowhere near the highly used strategy like it is in meta's where it's near mandatory like in rby due to how underpowered it is by comparison.
 

Avery

Banned deucer.
Why are all the samples BO? I remember when there was always a stall and a HO included, are they no longer viable playstyles?
3 reasons

1) neither one is too good rn, but stall in particular is in quite a bad spot
2) we weren’t satisfied with the ho teams / stall teams submitted
3) offense / bo are simply the most dominant playstyles at the moment and we wanted to reflect that
 
RELEVANT EDIT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...pa-berry-are-now-banned.3695636/#post-9071387 this appears to have been addressed by upper staff before the post was replied to so now is a moot point.

Just asking for clarification, was Leppa berry banned simply because of one person using a gimmick on ladder annoying you? a recent posting cites:

"Leppa Berry was banned after mass amounts of complaining about a bot grabbing games on ladder while abusing Leppa Berry to create practically endless battles. The decision to ban Leppa Berry also avoids future conflicts with EBC as well as removes this disruption from the metagame."

I would like some clarification on what a "practically endless battle" is, battles can either be endless or not and a "practically endless battle" seems like a convoluted way of saying "long battle" meant to justify this ban. PP Stalling as far as I know is a legal and legitimate strategy and yes it does result in long battles, block is a legitimate and legal move. Running a gimmick on ladder is also a legitimate and legal strategy. Leppa berry is not an rng item and I have seen absolutely 0 reasoning as to why it would be considered uncompetitive, broken or unhealthy.

Is people complaining about something being annoying and obnoxious on ladder now a good enough reason to justify QUICKBANNING a non-rng part of the metagame that has plenty of valid and important niches outside of that gimmick?

Tiering Policy Framework https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiering-policy-framework.3628026/ states that:

II.) We cater to both ladder players (the higher end of the ladder) and tournament players.

  • For actions to be taken in tiering policy, it is important to show how that action affects BOTH the ladder scene and the tournament scene.

Is there any tournament replay you can provide that shows leppa berry being used in an "uncompetitive" or ban worthy fashion in NatDex to help me understand better why it has to be quickbanned since the "reasoning" seemed to indicate this was only a ladder issue and particularly a low ladder issue?

It also states:
III.) The onus of providing justification is on the side changing the status quo.
  • If a proposal is made to ban or unban a Pokemon, ability, item, or move, the side suggesting this must demonstrate why this is necessary and how it affects the ladder and the tournament scene, as well as provide evidence for both.
Regarding this bot that supposedly got leppa berry banned, did it peak #1 on ladder? Do you have any replays of skilled players losing to said bot? Can we atleast get an elo rating or some data used to justify why tiering action was taken? there was absolutely not a shred of evidence data or reasoning provided in the post detailing the quick ban and that is not good enough to justify removing such a niche and unique item from the meta-game.


it is very suprising to a lot of the community that leppa berry was voted on with the "luck items" considering it wasnt asked about at all in the most recent player survey and has no aspect of luck or rng involved whatsoever. The ban seems poorly justified, haphazard and not consistent with smogons tiering policy framework. To me this appears to be a case of someone with a hammer thinking every problem looks like a nail.

Further more I would like to ask Is there an argument as to why Leppa berry is specifically broken In National Dex or can the "reasoning" you used to justify banning it be extrapolated to other tiers? should we expect SS OU to ban it now too for consistency?
 
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What Archetype is strongest in Nat Dex OU and what mons are staple
RELEVANT EDIT: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...pa-berry-are-now-banned.3695636/#post-9071387 this appears to have been addressed by upper staff before the post was replied to so now is a moot point.

Just asking for clarification, was Leppa berry banned simply because of one person using a gimmick on ladder annoying you? a recent posting cites:

"Leppa Berry was banned after mass amounts of complaining about a bot grabbing games on ladder while abusing Leppa Berry to create practically endless battles. The decision to ban Leppa Berry also avoids future conflicts with EBC as well as removes this disruption from the metagame."

I would like some clarification on what a "practically endless battle" is, battles can either be endless or not and a "practically endless battle" seems like a convoluted way of saying "long battle" meant to justify this ban. PP Stalling as far as I know is a legal and legitimate strategy and yes it does result in long battles, block is a legitimate and legal move. Running a gimmick on ladder is also a legitimate and legal strategy. Leppa berry is not an rng item and I have seen absolutely 0 reasoning as to why it would be considered uncompetitive, broken or unhealthy.

Is people complaining about something being annoying and obnoxious on ladder now a good enough reason to justify QUICKBANNING a non-rng part of the metagame that has plenty of valid and important niches outside of that gimmick?

Tiering Policy Framework https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/tiering-policy-framework.3628026/ states that:

II.) We cater to both ladder players (the higher end of the ladder) and tournament players.

  • For actions to be taken in tiering policy, it is important to show how that action affects BOTH the ladder scene and the tournament scene.

Is there any tournament replay you can provide that shows leppa berry being used in an "uncompetitive" or ban worthy fashion in NatDex to help me understand better why it has to be quickbanned since the "reasoning" seemed to indicate this was only a ladder issue and particularly a low ladder issue?

It also states:
III.) The onus of providing justification is on the side changing the status quo.
  • If a proposal is made to ban or unban a Pokemon, ability, item, or move, the side suggesting this must demonstrate why this is necessary and how it affects the ladder and the tournament scene, as well as provide evidence for both.
Regarding this bot that supposedly got leppa berry banned, did it peak #1 on ladder? Do you have any replays of skilled players losing to said bot? Can we atleast get an elo rating or some data used to justify why tiering action was taken? there was absolutely not a shred of evidence data or reasoning provided in the post detailing the quick ban and that is not good enough to justify removing such a niche and unique item from the meta-game.


it is very suprising to a lot of the community that leppa berry was voted on with the "luck items" considering it wasnt asked about at all in the most recent player survey and has no aspect of luck or rng involved whatsoever. The ban seems poorly justified, haphazard and not consistent with smogons tiering policy framework. To me this appears to be a case of someone with a hammer thinking every problem looks like a nail.

Further more I would like to ask Is there an argument as to why Leppa berry is specifically broken In National Dex or can the "reasoning" you used to justify banning it be extrapolated to other tiers? should we expect SS OU to ban it now too for consistency?
As I recall the bot was only in low ladder, bullying new players. I only heard about it on reddit though
 
Why are you allowed to Mega Evolve Galarian Slowbro in this format? In Pokémon Go, where both Galarian Slowbro and Mega Slowbro exist, you can't do this
 

R8

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Why are you allowed to Mega Evolve Galarian Slowbro in this format? In Pokémon Go, where both Galarian Slowbro and Mega Slowbro exist, you can't do this
That is just a consequence of the way mega evolutions are coded in the USUM games, and since National Dex is basically gen8 + things that were legal in gen7, the less arbitrary possible choice is just following the way megas were coded in gen7 (It works with the dex number i believe)
 
Is it most worth it to run Adamant Hoopa-U?
In all other generations it's only run a Jolly/Timid nature and with the new analysis it recommends Adamant.
I can see how the attack increase can help a little, but is it worth trading off the potential to be outsped by Heatran etc?
 
Why are you allowed to Mega Evolve Galarian Slowbro in this format? In Pokémon Go, where both Galarian Slowbro and Mega Slowbro exist, you can't do this
its a good point

Is it most worth it to run Adamant Hoopa-U?
In all other generations it's only run a Jolly/Timid nature and with the new analysis it recommends Adamant.
I can see how the attack increase can help a little, but is it worth trading off the potential to be outsped by Heatran etc?
I guess it depends on the team youre running, they both have their advantages and the extra damage is certainly helpful, however, I prefer to still run mine as a speedy boi
 

Kaede

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Is it most worth it to run Adamant Hoopa-U?
In all other generations it's only run a Jolly/Timid nature and with the new analysis it recommends Adamant.
I can see how the attack increase can help a little, but is it worth trading off the potential to be outsped by Heatran etc?
it covers modest heatran while timid heatran isn't too popular in the metagame, although it is on the rise as of late, by extension gliscor's tend to go by its popularity in speedcreeping it. Other less important targets like adamant lando, max speed tapu bulu have also not seen too much use. If you want to use jolly to outspeed these targets though I would say go for it, especially heatran/gliscor since adamant doesn't bring any too important calcs to the table besides just more power overall
 
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