Thank god for these bans, I'm glad people realized how cheap ogerpon hearthflame mask was. I literally just fused it with regular ogerpon (yes that works) and it would easily sweep teams who thought unaware was their answer to sweepers.
I'm teambuilding chill out for a second lolwait, 8 of them just got banned, we banned weavile, zama was banned from start, same with urshifu, Iron Valiant and Iron Hands are both banned, Bax is banned, Anni-ape is banned, Stakeout and Unburden are banned. When everything just gets +30 to their defenses and regen/other great abilities, standard "wall breakers" won't cut it (especially considering we also banned weather comps for being "too offensively strong" e.g, it broke regen cores)
Honestly, walled by GTusk and Dozo, and Alolomola for that matter
I can literally post for any "offensive set" on this page, and guarenteed it's either been banned or doesn't actually break the Regen core
I haven't played the ladder since the weavile ban but I imagine that dondozos run unaware? In that case SD wouldn't break it but Choice band could.
252+ Atk Adaptability Basculegion (Quaquaval) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking (Dondozo): 186-220 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
This is BEFORE a Swords Dance, and max defense. Let's see about after...
+2 252+ Atk Adaptability Basculegion (Quaquaval) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowking (Dondozo): 370-436 (73.4 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Dozo needs to switch out before it gets 2HKO'd, and the Quaquaval can SD again for even more power.
The calcs were for a regenerator dondozo.I haven't played the ladder since the weavile ban but I imagine that dondozos run unaware? In that case SD wouldn't break it but Choice band could.
Yes but I thought unaware would be more commonThe calcs were for a regenerator dondozo.
Here's the calc!Yes but I thought unaware would be more common
RIP Manaphy, I had a feeling this was coming. Man was thing strong, you can give it an actual ability and take its stats in whatever direction you wanted. rest/talk + take heart with Hisui Goodra was awesome bulky set up beast while T-Therian + Tail glow hits like a truck after 1 turn of set up.MANAPHY, HEARTHFLAME MASK, SNEASLER, WALKING WAKE, IRON MOTH, AND GHOLDENGO HAVE ALL BEEN BANNED
If you're having a lot of trouble with breaking through Regenerator sets, then why not try to slot a physical wallbreaker on your team?I can literally post for any "offensive set" on this page, and guaranteed it's either been banned or doesn't actually break the Regen core
I was testing the exact same set lol. Its pretty much just sneasler but slower and a little less powerful and with a different secondary stab. The gholdengo ban makes strong fighting types able to break a lot of stall cores now.If you're having a lot of trouble with breaking through Regenerator sets, then why not try to slot a physical wallbreaker on your team?
I'll use + as an example here, but there are other good options available that play similarly.
Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) @ Choice Band
Ability: Tough Claws
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Brave Bird
- Stomping Tantrum / Thunderous Kick
- U-turn
NEW STATS: 90/154/106/98/106/127
This set has definitely been posted before, but I'm using it here to help get my point across.
GZapdos provides amazing physical power, which just so happens to be very useful against RegenVesters. Even with neutral hits, GZapdos can deal heavy damage to whatever happens to be in its way.
Here are some calcs I've ran against some Regen users I've seen in the tier.
Vs. +
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tornadus-Therian (Meloetta): 318-375 (78.7 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
From full HP, Meloetta is a guaranteed 2HKO with maximum HP and Defense investment.
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tornadus-Therian (Meloetta): 318-375 (78.7 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
After taking damage from Stealth Rock (or other prior chip damage), Meloetta is put into OHKO range. Any damage taken past this results in a much more likely (or even guaranteed) OHKO.
Vs. +
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro (Goodra-Hisui): 528-624 (145 - 171.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
GZapdos doesn't have any trouble OHKOing HGoodra, even with maximum defensive investments.
Vs. +
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tornadus-Therian (Great Tusk): 464-548 (106.9 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Brave Bird is a guaranteed OHKO on Great Tusk with maximum defensive investment.
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tornadus-Therian (Great Tusk): 232-274 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you're locked into CC, you can still pick up a 2HKO on Tusk.
Vs. +
252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk (Zapdos-Galar) Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Diancie (Alomomola): 280-330 (52.4 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
GZapdos always 2HKOes Alomomola from full HP to 61.8% HP, and picks up a guaranteed OHKO if Alomomola is at or below 52% HP from prior damage. Anywhere between 62% and 52% HP gives GZapdos a chance to OHKO it.
Good. Good.MANAPHY, HEARTHFLAME MASK, SNEASLER, WALKING WAKE, IRON MOTH, AND GHOLDENGO HAVE ALL BEEN BANNED
If you've played OU you know that Kingambit's biggest trait is not its blistering speed. STAB 158 ATK supreme overlord is nuts. If you're that worried about speed, I run it with sticky web.just do gambit + diancie, if you want to keep supreme overlord.
82 speed is really fucking slow for this metagame and not worth giving up 37 in both defenses.
STAB Earthquake and overall better coverage. Also the option to run Chainchomp type shit and run fire blast over stone edge.What's a good reason to run this over loaded dice technician roaring moon?
If you've played OU you know that Kingambit's biggest trait is not its blistering speed. STAB 158 ATK supreme overlord is nuts. If you're that worried about speed, I run it with sticky web.just do gambit + diancie, if you want to keep supreme overlord.
82 speed is really fucking slow for this metagame and not worth giving up 37 in both defenses.
STAB Earthquake and overall better coverage. Also the option to run Chainchomp type shit and run fire blast over stone edge.What's a good reason to run this over loaded dice technician roaring moon?
I imagine their point is that Bisharp is just outclassed hard by Kingambit if you're adding a slow bulky mon as its fusion. Barraskewda (Kingambit) for example is stronger, faster, and significantly bulkier than Kingambit (Bisharp) so there is very little reason to run the latter unless you already have Kingambit being used for something and basically need another oneIf you've played OU you know that Kingambit's biggest trait is not its blistering speed. STAB 158 ATK supreme overlord is nuts. If you're that worried about speed, I run it with sticky web.
yesQuick question have you played the tier?
you have such a hate boner for regenerator that you can't even say something thats right, tail glow manaphy was one of the WORST sets against regen cores. hoodra resists stab and manaphy has to use ice beam, while it can be thunderbolted to death. or vs a-muk, which doesn't even resist but can still knock, then poison it.Let's be totally honest, this was banned because Tail Glow could break Regen Cores, not because it was a valid regenvest set.
this gets super owned by unaware scream tail but I've seen it like once or twice. this is an example of innovating instead of complaining.Stall is very strong in this tier unquestionably, but rather than complaining about the king, let's talk regicide.
With Regenstall cores (which seem to be the most common on the ladder), it is usually the case that one half handles the physical hits and the other half the special hits, case in point special attackers barely exist in this tier because Regenvest H-Goodra and Unaware Blissey exist. Not much getting through on the special side that hasn't been banned yet. Great Tusk and H-Goodra seems to be a common two man stall core.
The solution, of course, is not to try. Perhaps we should experiment further with mixed attackers. Been testing the following on the ladder to some success, especially against bulkier compositions.
Crawdaunt (Kommo-o) @ Throat Spray
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Clangorous Soul
- Flamethrower
- Clanging Scales
The passive nature of regen cores makes it relatively easy to set up, especially with screen/wish support which is in ample supply. Great Tusk usually folds to +1 Clanging Scales never mind +2, and H-Goodra/Unaware Blissey crumble to Close Combat. Mega Luvdisc gets 2HKO'ed in its most specially defensive variants, and that's doing jack all to a special attacking dragon anyway.
I am sure those more experienced in the tier could come up with better examples of mixed attackers, just wanted to raise the possibility.
Yup, I completely agree with you, they banned a lot I MEAN a lot of offensive mons and just left the defensive mons, they also banned the damp rock and the heat rock which weakened the weather teams and offensive playstyles mainly. Also these bans just made defense stronger, we either need regen ban(preferred) or single ac.Wowwww, love the saturation of offensive mons bans, making play less creative, making stall even less challengable than before, and making the meta less fun. Because this meta had to be more defense based. To address the decisions, my opinions
Sneasler is wise, as well as Ogerpon-H.
Prehaps Manaphy as well, but we will see.
Cress, SAC, and Regenerator should have been banned and implemented, respectively.
Walking wake should have not been banned.
Gholdengo I agree with.
Iron Moth I also agree with.
This meta does not seem to be balanced, which needs to change.
Agreed, I get hit with stall teams almost every game at this point, and Cress getting Regenerator from Glowking is not fun. At least Toxapex is banned… never mind, if I have to say, “at least Toxapex is banned, that’s an upside”, and that is the only upside I can think of off the top of my head, it’s not healthy.
Well, that is an upside, then they stayed on the spree of banning (mostly) offense mons.
Final Opinion: This meta needs fixing, and it’s even more broken then before Pult’s ban. At least Pult had priority weaknesses to give it (admittedly limited) counterplay. Stall is much harder to take down, and is just generally unfun and not engaging to play against it it’s current state.
TLDR: What was broken got broken even more.
Doesn't Goodra-H very commonly carry Knock Off?Hoopa
+/
Stats: 80/123/75/173/147/101
Shield dust allows it to not be forced away by Dragon Tail, and also allows it not to be paralyzed by Zapdos fused with Lycanroc-Midnight. This also has great special attack allowing it to set up on Zapdos and then break through regen walls such as Goodra-Hisui and Alomomola. Riombee is chosen as it gives the highest speed. If you don't care about speed and want sheer wallbreaking, you can do Frosmoth.
InteleonRibombee (Hoopa) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Shield Dust
IVs: 0 Atk
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
+
Stats: 80/141/100/91/112/140
This set aims to increase Ogerpon's pure power to its limit. With sniper increasing the power of critical hits, it can deal serious damage with Ivy Cudgel. Yes its stabs get walled by Goodra-Hisui, but you can use Low Kick to hit steel types now that Gholdengo's gone. You can run either a recovery move to improve longevity or swords dance to hopefully sweep.
Inteleon (Ogerpon-Wellspring) @ Wellspring Mask
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Ivy Cudgel
- Power Whip
- U-turn
- Swords Dance/Synthesis