Metagame Frantic Fusions (New resources @ Post #387)

Defog doesn't really help against the hazard problem because hazards have much more PP than defog. So even if gag was banned, defog still would not be enough to deal with hazards, especially with pressure factored into the game. You might be able to keep hazards off temporarily, but it is not enough to keep hazards off in the long term. So the move is good but is not good enough.
I didn't want to engage with this "hazards have more pp" point as I thought it was pointless to do, but I guess I have to before people keep bringing it up. This pp point seems like a complete moot point, and is distracting from the point of the conversation, the brokeness of good as gold. I'm not playing hard stall, I'm playing bulky offense, balance, whatever you'd call it. My games are rarely over 80 turns, 24 of those aren't spent spamming defog against their spikes. I have not ran out of defog PP ever in any battle, in any meta.
 
Last edited:
Yea when gag is around you lose quickly to hazards. When gag is banned you lose slowly to hazards because the opposing hazard stack team is forced to pp stall your defog instead of directly blocking it. Only difference is the length of games.
Enough of this distraction. These aren't points for keeping Gholdengo/Good as Gold around, these are points saying defog is bad. I am not trying to discuss if defog is bad. If I am slowly losing to hazards by having defog pp stalled I got counter teamed (pressure switchins, unbreakable core for my team) or I already choked, I will not engage with this PP stall point further.
 
Enough of this distraction. These aren't points for keeping Gholdengo/Good as Gold around, these are points saying defog is bad. I am not trying to discuss if defog is bad. If I am slowly losing to hazards by having defog pp stalled I got counter teamed (pressure switchins) or I already choked, I will not engage with this PP stall point further.
Not a distraction. Just saying that hazards are just as broken without gag and that defog is not the best option for removing them. In other words, gag does not make hazards more op and does not need to be banned.
 
I do not know, because I do not actually play Frantic Fusions
So you just decided to post a college thesis, this ignoring this is the "Frantic Fusions" page

Can we please stop with this meaningless back and forth?
First Regen now this, are people not allowed to discuss the meta of Frantic Fusions in the Frantic Fusions forum?

Edit: laugh react me all you want, you know it's true, you don't want people actually discussing the gnarlier parts of the meta, instead posting bad sets that can't kill gtusk and alolomola and the rest.
 
Last edited:

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
So you just decided to post a college thesis, this ignoring this is the "Frantic Fusions
... Instead of addressing any of my points I made in my post you decide to ignore them and make fun of it for its length and cherrypicked a quote without any context given. Congratulations, you've proved the point I made in my post. I do not need to say anything further, I couldn't have even made up a better example for it.
 
Yikes, not sure what just happened. I think the OM is tons of fun with a lot of variety. We have a lot of time as the OMotM and I hope that brings a lot of fresh ideas along with the dlc pokes. We should be focusing on that, and in that vein I appreciate the councils quick ban action on Moth and Boulder. Thanks for a generally thankless job done in a responsive manner.
 
1707063276164.png


rampardos (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick / Gunk Shot / Iron Head
- Sucker Punch

This set is insaneeee. Sheer force/life orb boosted pyro ball with rampardos +40 donation to cinderace attack stat. It 1kho 75% of neutral resists and 2hko the rest. This thing has single handedly carried me to high ladder. Youre kidding yourself if you think Tusk is a switch-in

1707064447269.png

1707063777816.png

sylveon (Polteageist) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Tera Blast

This set is more gimmicky but polteageist can now fight back against dark types with pixilate boosted terablast. Ive had a couple sweeps with this thing and its always very satisfying. It also gets a nice SpA boost from sylveon making it extra threatening
 
Last edited:
:cinderace:
rampardos (Cinderace) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pyro Ball
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Sucker Punch

This set is insaneeee. Sheer force/life orb boosted pyro ball with rampardos +40 donation to cinderace attack stat. It 1kho 75% of neutral resists and 2hko the rest. This thing has single handedly carried me to high ladder. Youre kidding yourself if you think Tusk is a switch-in
Don't forget about moves like Gunk Shot/Iron Head, those also do massive damage. SF-boosted Gunk Shot sometimes does enough damage to OHKO certain Dragon-types that would otherwise resist your Pyro Ball and kill you in retaliation. Also I would argue that Life Orb U-Turn might not be the best course of action as you would sometimes be taking more damage from the Life Orb recoil than you would be dealing with the move.
 
... Instead of addressing any of my points I made in my post you decide to ignore them and make fun of it for its length and cherrypicked a quote without any context given
Wait you werent
Why do people think the council is some kind of political cabal intent on spreading stall?
Maybe because out of the last 30 pokemon banned, maybe two were focused on oppressive stall/hazard stack mons (and one of those was revert, enter gholdengo).

And I know what you'll bring up, "it shouldn't be tit for tat" and that's not what I'm saying at all.

Also, please don't compare this to "other OMs". They are different metagames and what they do has no bearing on what Frantic Fusion the meta requires. If you really want to compare this to an OM, AAA being the most similar, 1 Ability Clause is not because we need it to stop stall from being oppressive. Frankly it was just done as an experiment with FurScales and also solving the consistency of Ability Clause (compared to 2AC which is somewhat arbitary). Stall appreciates more flexibility with their Regen slots, sure, but honestly it isn't even affected that much by Regen and there are ubiquitous amount of other defensive tools it can run that can be arguably even more important. 1AC isn't even some holy thing we've come to appreciate, many people have voiced their dissatisfaction over it and wish for increased AC. There have been various calls to even just straight up free NAC and even oldgens AAA have 2AC and find themselves fairly fine and not ultra Stall dominated. The difference between 2AC and NAC is fairly negligible and I've never seen anyone find 2AC fine but have disdain for NAC as Regen is not some perfect defensive ability. Also if you want to compare it to AAA further, Unburden and Triage shouldn't even have much bearing on the viability of Stall? You talk as they already run 3 Unaware even without these abilities in the meta, I don't see how freeing them would change much of anything if Stall really is dominant in this tier.
This is all somewhat true, but there are more restrictions on abilities (no desoland/prime sea, no SoR, etc) and all pokemon get proportionally more bulk than attacking stat (unless there's some gimmicky mixed attacker I'm not remembering). Between every pokemon getting a lot bulkier, and the lack of strong offensive abilities, even basic things like hazard stack and stall which aren't all that good in AAA are much more dangerous here.

But again, you don't play this tier. Why are you trying to declare objective things about this tier's meta?

We are not "oppressing" you for having an opinion.
Who is we? We're talking about the council, not your circle of friends you jerk with in discord. You don't play the meta, and you certainly aren't on council (and if you are influencing a council for a meta you don't play, shame on you).

But, to respond to the whole point.

We are not "oppressing" you for having an opinion. Council members for the most part do want to make a meta better and if anything appreciate constructive criticism to see what is wrong, because this isn't Congress and they are voting on a silly videogame meta not whether Big Oil™" will continue to fuck over our planet in exchange for short term profits and are not getting bribed to make Stall better or looking out for their chances next re-election. What we are is annoyed by your obnoxious constant whining that is backed up by no substantial evidence or analysis in the majority of the case that derails any actual constructive discussion as you plug your ears as players do respond with an argument that actually some thought put into it and continue to complain. You do not need to be some big-time tour or ladder player to have people listen to your opinion. You do not need to have an opinion that perfectly aligns with the majority of council to have an opinion respected or heard, hell the majority of the time the council isn't even unified on the majority of topics. What you do need is some thought put into your arguments and climb out of your echo chamber. I was a nobody when I first played AAA but I still put out opinions on controversial mons and had constructive arguments. Various people have engaged in discussion even against the grate of many respected players and council and been respected, see Siamatos great posts on the AAA meta.
First off, why the hell are you bringing up politics in this thread? And I'm considered the troll.

Two, as soon as one of the "well respected members of the community" writes you off, you don't have any presence. I could mindlessly puppet the opinions and beliefs of the council and would still likely get laughed off my ass because I'm tagged as "just a common troll" so you bringing up anything related to "discourse is good even if you are wrong" is a blatant lie lmao.

Three, if the "anti-stall trolls" are in an echo chamber, I'd argue the "just run tough claws Gapdos and 1v6 all stall teams forever" crowd are in just as much of an echo chamber.

Finally, people getting annoyed... About conversation... On the forum made... For talking about their meta. The HORROR!! Whatever will we do?

:Pikachu:

If anyone is blocking out constructive criticism, I'd really wager it would be you.
Considering that this OMs council has blacklisted regenerator and hazard stack, and gone on record to say that they will never look at 1AC, Regen, or Gholdengo for bans again, means that some form of criticisms is blocked. If you subjectively think that's trolling, that's fine.

Also...

Iron Boulder and Iron Moth are banned from Frantic Fusions!
I fucking called it, let's go, more wallbreakers banned (iron moth specifically being one of the example mons given to new players as recently as two days ago for ways to beat hard stall)
 
But you've failed to provide any proof or substantial argument but "look, offensive mons have been banned! the meta must being dominated by stall!" but no that's really not how that works in general.

Also, you bring this up but you have 0 evidence to support your own argument either, I suspect all this is is to win the favor of this OM's leaders by "taking their side" which is very silly indeed.

Edit: hidin laugh reacted this so you all should follow suit and get on his good side! Go go go!!
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
What a fucking loser.

Anyways, how are people feeling about Roaring Moon? Imo its easily one of the scariest Pokemon to account for due to how versatile it is and the fact that counterplay tends to vary set to set.
I've encountered the usual TClaws Band set, but ive been seeing Grea Tusk variants with Booster Arco of all things, many to use the various Defensive Klawf Tusks as set up bait with Acro.

Great Tusk (Roaring Moon) @ Booster Energy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Ability: Protosynthesis
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Knock Off
- Acrobatics
- Fire Fang

These variants hate facing Fluffy Iron Birds, but Fluffy Iron Birds hate being momentum sinks for Banded TClaws variants...seeing my point here. Scary how consistent of a set up sweeper it can be once the right checks are gone. And ofc god forbid your Iron Bird is like, a Hatterene variant. Its basically over.
 
Rain is really annoying imo, so I'm experimenting with Iron Treads to counter it.

Volcanion (Iron Treads) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 242 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Supercell Slam
- Earthquake
- Volt Switch

This is just to 1v1 any rain setter, for a more consistent switch-in that's less capable of 1v1-ing drizzle mons, fuse it with Tornadus-Therian.
 
Anyways, how are people feeling about Roaring Moon? Imo its easily one of the scariest Pokemon to account for due to how versatile it is and the fact that counterplay tends to vary set to set.
I've encountered the usual TClaws Band set, but ive been seeing Grea Tusk variants with Booster Arco of all things, many to use the various Defensive Klawf Tusks as set up bait with Acro.
Personally my favourite is Scizor. Loaded Dice Scale Shot can really help turn around games in your favour if played right.

Scizor (Roaring Moon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bite
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake (any other coverage move could work but this seem to be the better coverage most of the time)
 
Last edited:
1000000360.png
Bonsly (Treecko) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Tera Type: Grass
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- Leech Seed
- Endure/Substitute

It probably won't work on more experienced players and of course there's plenty of counters but it is a fairly unique facet of this meta since you can fit endeavor, leech seed, priority, and sturdy all on the same set. Shell bell is to have a chance at getting more value as long as you have hazard removal. Hazard support is also useful as it forces switches on a lot of stuff. Heavy-duty boots can also be used instead but I think magic guard with focus sash would be superior in that case.
 
Personally my favourite is Scizor. Loaded Dice Scale Shot can really help turn around games in your favour if played right.

Scizor (Roaring Moon) @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Bite
- Scale Shot
- Earthquake
is bite really worth running over knock off? scale shot is already strong, idk if losing out on part of what makes moon so strong is worth for the extra power
 
:florges: + :archaludon: Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish / Synthesis
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Moonblast

Base stats: 78/91/100/143/170/96

Really annoying stored power sweeper with ridiculous stats and a pretty good typing
 
Oh boy this OM is coming back, and I have some chicanery for you all!

Mudsdale (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Wish

Bases post fusion: 78/96/93/125/175/83, Total: 650

Used this set a little to some decent results. If your opponent couldn't get this thing off the field, they were very screwed as it could easily bulk up thanks to Stamina & Calm Mind to high heaven, blast them with Stored Power, with Draining Kiss and Wish for healing.

Except now, Mudsdale is out of a job, thanks to the newest Stamina mon in town, Archaludon!

Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Wish

Bases post fusion: 78/91/100/143/170/96, Total: 678

The loss of some SpDef kind of stings, but the Def boost is great, as is the MASSIVE boost to it's SpAtk so it can hit even harder.

Is it good? Maybe, TBH I haven't played this OM since the last time it was OM of the month. But it can make for a decent win con to catch your foe off guard.
:florges: + :archaludon: Archaludon (Florges) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish / Synthesis
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Moonblast

Base stats: 78/91/100/143/170/96

Really annoying stored power sweeper with ridiculous stats and a pretty good typing
I've actually been using this myself (and even posted about it earlier in the thread. Though I've been running Draining Kiss over Moonblast for more HP recovery while maintaining offensive pressure.
 

Glory

formerly TaxFraud
is a Pre-Contributor
I haven't seen anyone else share their personal VRs, so I might as well.
upper ranks are also going to get their fusions listed, with more niche options being unbolded.

S rank (ordered by viability)
:latios: Latios (Porygon-Z / Espeon)
:swampert: Swampert (Hydrapple / Slowking)

S- rank (ordered by viability)
:roaring moon: Roaring Moon (Lycanroc-Dusk)
:great tusk: Great Tusk (Tornadus-Therian / Klawf / Flamigo / Lycanroc-Dusk)
:gholdengo: Gholdengo (Latias / Latios / Heatran / Reuniclus)
:skarmory: Skarmory (Houndstone / Scrafty / Dachsbun)

A+ rank (ordered by viability)
:gouging fire: Gouging Fire (Clefable / Haxorus)
:corviknight: Corviknight (Houndstone / Scrafty / Dachsbun)
:raging bolt: Raging Bolt (Latios / Porygon-Z / Slowking-Galar)
:ogerpon-wellspring: Ogerpon-Wellspring (Basculin / Lokix)
:sneasler: Sneasler (Lycanroc-Dusk)
:samurott-hisui: Samurott-Hisui (Tornadus-Therian / Lycanroc-Dusk / Porygon-Z)

A rank (ordered by viability)
:archaludon: Archaludon (Hydrapple / Politoed / Porygon-Z)
:ogerpon-cornerstone: Ogerpon-Cornerstone (Basculin / Lokix / Bombirdier)
:dragonite: Dragonite (Cinderace / Meowscarada)
:excadrill: Excadrill (Tornadus-Therian / Hydrapple / Sneasler / Lycanroc-Dusk)
:iron treads: Iron Treads (Tornadus-Therian / Hydrapple)
:deoxys-defense: Deoxys-Defense (Dondozo / Hatterene / Scrafty / whatever you want)
:iron crown: Iron Crown (Archaludon / Gholdengo / Espeon)

A- rank (not ordered by viability)
:manaphy: Manaphy
:azelf: Azelf
:zapdos-galar: Zapdos-Galar
:alomomola: Alomomola
:kingambit: Kingambit
:pecharunt: Pecharunt
:goodra-hisui: Goodra-Hisui
:barraskewda: Barraskewda
:scream tail: Scream Tail
:ting-lu: Ting-Lu
:zapdos: Zapdos
:slither wing: Slither Wing

B+ rank (not ordered by viability)
:cinderace: Cinderace
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-Hisui
:enamorus-therian: Enamorus-Therian
:empoleon: Empoleon
:slowking: Slowking
:meowscarada: Meowscarada
:landorus-therian: Landorus-Therian
:dondozo: Dondozo
:ribombee: Ribombee
:ursaluna: Ursaluna

B rank (not ordered by viability)
:mandibuzz: Mandibuzz
:blissey: Blissey
:cobalion: Cobalion
:entei: Entei
:haxorus: Haxorus
:slowking-galar: Slowking-Galar
:gengar: Gengar
:meloetta: Meloetta
:electrode-hisui: Electrode-Hisui
:sneasel: Sneasel
:fezandipiti: Fezandipiti

:latios: Latios is not only the most threatening wallbreaker in the metagame, but it's the most splashable too. Even with only one Fusion it can easily catch all of its checks off guard with plenty of different options. Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, and Calm Mind are all incredibly effective no matter the team or matchup.
:swampert: Swampert is the most versatile RegenVest in the metagame with its great movepool, bulk, and typing letting it excel in every single game.
:roaring moon: The second best wallbreaker after Latios, Roaring Moon is far more straightforward. Choice Band sets are a nightmare to switch in to because of its ridiculous power and metagame defining speed tier, whereas Choice Scarf sets can outspeed almost any boosted threat while still being very powerful, making it a premier revenge killer.
:great tusk: Great Tusk brings a lot of role compression as a crucial part of the hazard game and an important check to both Roaring Moon and Gouging Fire. Just tons of utility and incredibly splashable.
:gholdengo: Gholdengo can pick and choose between top threats for it to manhandle while innately having a lot of very desireable attributes as a Dragon- and Psychic-type resist. Very good bulk means it can live a lot of the most powerful hits in the meta, even without a resistance to them.
:skarmory: The premier catch-all physical wall, Skarmory rises above its competitor in Corviknight because Skarmory is the single best user of Spikes in the metagame, and it has access to the very valuable Whirlwind. Skarmory is just a very effective glue mon for many teams.
 
Last edited:
The council should definitely take some action against this. Final Gambit Copycat teams can easily screw over Pokemon not running priority and turns the entire game into a potential 1v1, which is heavily uncompetitive and not fun.
I think this can be countered somewhat easily with cautious steps, obviously, the first copycat could be unexpected but afterwards you gotta play around it, and use context clues to figure out that something might have Scrappy, which means you should save the ghost type, that being Sinistcha.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top