Project Don't Use That, Use This! (Closed)

[7shoes]

Bellossom
Ninjask
Chatot

 

[Tuthur]

Butterfree
Pinsir
Chatot

 

[Sacrificed]

Butterfree
Ninjask
Rotom Fan

 

[Tuthur]

So here are the winners:

Reserving Quiver Dance Butterfree (Set 1), Choice Band Ninjask (Set 2), and Choice Specs Chatot (Set 3)

Set 1: Quiver Dance
View attachment 175341
Butterfree @ Buginium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Sleep Powder
- Substitute

Butterfree can take advantage of Tinted Lens and pair it more effectively with Quiver Dance than Mothim. Sleep Powder enables Butterfree to generate the free turns needed to set up Quiver Dance and actually start doing some damage. Though they have the same terrible typing defensively, rolling well on sleep turns is what differentiates Butterfree and makes it a potent, if delicate, Bug/Flying setup sweeper.

Set 2: Physical Wallbreaker
View attachment 175340
Ninjask @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Aerial Ace
- Leech Life
- Night Slash / Facade

Same verse as the first with Ninjask sharing the terrible Bug/Flying typing, but Ninjask specializes in the role of fast physical Bug/Flying wallbreaker much more with its incredible Speed Boost ability. With naturally high speed, Ninjask can afford to run an Adamant nature and still outspeed a good majority of the unboosted (and even boosted) metagame. Leech Life gives Ninjask a great STAB recovery move if it isn't clicking U-Turn. In comparison, Mothim suffers with its barely even mediocre speed stat, which allows Ninjask to figuratively and literally keep up better with the threats in the ZU metagame. If you've got a niche itch to use a Bug/Flying physical breaker (for some reason), Ninjask is a better fit for the role.

Set 3: Special Wallbreaker
View attachment 175342
Chatot @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Chatter / Hidden Power Water
- Heat Wave
- U-turn

Though not Bug type nor able to take advantage of Tinted Lens, Chatot fits the bill of flimsy part Flying special Choice wallbreaker with a destructive STAB. There's little need for Tinted Lens when Boomburst hits for so much damage. Chatot can also run U-Turn, and while it can't take advantage of STAB boost on the move, Chatot is noticeably faster than Mothim, which works to its benefit when wallbreaking. Chatot's coverage for its Normal typing is also done through Heat Wave, and options like Chatter, HP Water, or HP Fighting. Mothim's inability to use a powerful Bug STAB move is what makes Chatot a much better pick as a frail special attacker that can pivot with U-Turn.

Next slate is starting asap.

 

[Tuthur]

Slate 9: Delibird (suggested by 7shoes)

Set 1: Lead

Delibird @ Focus Sash
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Icy Wind
- Rapid Spin

Set 2: Physical Wallbreaker

Delibird @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drill Peck
- Ice Punch
- Ice Shard
- Spikes / Rapid Spin

Despite having access to the coveted Spikes and Rapid Spin, as well as one of the cutest design, Delibird is absolutely garbage. It has one of the worst defensive typing in the game with very low base stats (highest is 75), and mediocre STAB moves (strongest is Drill Peck).

 

[7shoes]

Crustle @ Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast

Crustle is one of my favorite lead in ZU. Sturdy allow it to easily set Sr and spikes.
Shell Smash and Rock Blast may help it to weakened the opponent teams which can be pretty useful.

Beartic @ Choice Band
Ability: Slush Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Beartic is probably one of the most underestimate mon' in ZU. Its very good attack couple to its decent movepool make him a strong Wallbreaker especially under Hail.
Icicle Crash, Superpower and Stone Edge are 3 moves that allow Beartic to deal whit nearly all the meta id you well-clicked. Aqua-Jet is a p good priority moves who can help Beartic to kill some mons like Combusken.

 

[Ampha]

1st:
Glalie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Spikes
- Ice Shard
- Freeze-Dry
- Explosion
Glalie can do the same job as delibird but with has access to better moves,speed and mostly, also the fact that Glalie can break off a possible opposing lead is great as well,while delibird has destiny bond and rapid spin,it generally cant use both without fainting because it will need to use spikes first

2nd
Abomasnow @ Grassium Z
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
Abomasnow outclasses deli as a physical wallbreaker due to its better typing,attack stat and way better coverage and boost its already good attack further with swords dance,making it better to use than Delibird

 

[missangelic]

Reserving Spikes Cacturne (Set 1) and Choice Band Fraxure (Set 2)

Set 1: Lead
Cacturne @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch

Cacturne is a good niche Spike setter that has a notably good match-up against the premier rocker of the tier, Golem. Cacturne's mixed attack stats are similar to Shiftry, but its access to Spikes are what give it its niche as an offensive setter. This gives it much more pressure than Delibird, who can hardly fire off an attack - let alone take one - as it tries to set Spikes.

Set 2: Wallbreaker
Fraxure @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Stomping Tantrum
- Low Kick

Choice Band Fraxure wastes no time with Dragon Dance by using a devastating and nasty +1 Outrage at the very start. Fraxure's main advantage as a breaker over Delibird is (besides its obviously greater Attack stat) the pleasure of using such a powerful STAB, as the ZU metagame lacks many Steels or Fairies to switch in on Fraxure. Mold Breaker helps Fraxure to make up for its STAB, as it can allow Fraxure's Stomping Tantrum to hit Bronzor and allowing for nearly perfect coverage between it and Outrage. Delibird in comparison hardly can make a dent in opposing teams even with Hustle, as its STAB moves are weak and don't have the greatest coverage.

 

[Tuthur]

Voting are now open
Set 1
-Crustle
-Glalie
-Cacturne

Set 2
-Beartic
-Abomasnow
-Fraxure

 

[7shoes]

Cacturne
Abomasnow

 

[Stealthbomber16]

Glalie
Beartic

 

[Tack]

Going to be devils advocate and vote crustle fraxure, bc glalie spread is suboptimal

 

[Sacrificed]

Set 1:Cacturne Set 2:Fraxure

 

[Tuthur]

So here are the results:
Set 1:

Reserving Spikes Cacturne (Set 1) and Choice Band Fraxure (Set 2)

Set 1: Lead
Cacturne @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Spikes
- Dark Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Sucker Punch

Cacturne is a good niche Spike setter that has a notably good match-up against the premier rocker of the tier, Golem. Cacturne's mixed attack stats are similar to Shiftry, but its access to Spikes are what give it its niche as an offensive setter. This gives it much more pressure than Delibird, who can hardly fire off an attack - let alone take one - as it tries to set Spikes.

Set 2:

Set 2: Wallbreaker
Fraxure @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Stomping Tantrum
- Low Kick

Choice Band Fraxure wastes no time with Dragon Dance by using a devastating and nasty +1 Outrage at the very start. Fraxure's main advantage as a breaker over Delibird is (besides its obviously greater Attack stat) the pleasure of using such a powerful STAB, as the ZU metagame lacks many Steels or Fairies to switch in on Fraxure. Mold Breaker helps Fraxure to make up for its STAB, as it can allow Fraxure's Stomping Tantrum to hit Bronzor and allowing for nearly perfect coverage between it and Outrage. Delibird in comparison hardly can make a dent in opposing teams even with Hustle, as its STAB moves are weak and don't have the greatest coverage.

 

[Tuthur]

Slate 10: Giovanni's favorite Pokemon, Persian

Set 1: Anti-Lead

Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Fake Out
- Water Pulse
- Taunt
- Knock Off / Return

Set 2: Offensive Pivot

Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Frustration
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Set 3: Nasty Plot

Persian @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Swift / Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Icy Wind / Water Pulse

Persian may be one of the fastest Pokemon in the ZU tier speed tying with Floatzel, and have access to both a very wide movepool and Technician. But its other stats are below average which lets it struggle to break through opposing walls as well as to come on weak moves.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Set 2:

Purugly @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch / Knock Off
- Fake Out
- U-turn

Poke-Garfield here has roughly the same physical movepool as Kanto Persian, but notably is slightly stronger, has access to Sucker Punch, and has an extremely useful ability in Defiant. The speed tier is roughly the same as well. Simple as that, really.

Set 3:

Chatot @ Normalium Z
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Boomburst
- Encore
- Heat Wave

Much stronger overall? Check. Can have an easier time setting up with Encore? Check. Is able to chunk at least most mons in the tier which Persian simply can't do? Check. Chatot's simply most consistent than Persian when it comes to being a frail Nasty Plotting Normal-type.

 

[missangelic]

Reserving Floatzel (Set 1), Zebstrika (Set 2), and Raichu (Set 3)

Set 1: Anti-Lead

Floatzel @ Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Water Veil
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Aqua Jet
- Taunt
- Ice Beam / Focus Blast

Floatzel is an interesting choice for an anti-lead, as with its good speed tier, STAB water typing, and access to Taunt, it can sufficiently shut down nearly every other lead. Neither Golem nor Crustle, two of the most dangerous rockers, do not enjoy taking a Scald and risking a burn. Floatzel can even play around Custap Sturdy antics with Aqua Jet. Hydro Pump is an option to deal a lot more damage, but the chance to burn is also very useful.

Set 2: Offensive Pivot

Zebstrika @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod / Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass
- Thunderbolt

Zebstrika is a good choice for an offensive pivot that differentiates itself from the other Electric type pivots with its great matchup against Grass types. Persian suffers from not getting STAB on its pivoting move as well as not often being able to switch in, but Zebstrika has a workable Special Attack and a great assortment of coverage moves to threaten switch-ins.

Set 3: Nasty Plot

Raichu @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice

Raichu is a much more proficient user of Nasty Plot thanks to its excellent Electric/Fighting coverage. Most specially defensive walls such as Lickilicky, Altaria, or Mareanie struggle with taking Raichu's moveset. Raichu's high speed tier but better Special Attack make it much more effective as a late-game cleaner.

 

[Tuthur]

Set 1:

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Knock Off
- Double-Edge / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Marowak is a great anti-lead since it can defeat every Steath Rock setter not nammed Cradily (Persian doesn't beat Cradily after all) and can even even OHKO Golem with Bonemerang. Also unlike Persian it has access to Stealth Rock which makes it a better lead.

Set 3

Swoobat @ Salac Berry
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Stored Power
- Heat Wave

Swoobat is as frail as Persian, however it hits harder and has a better Speed Tier. Not a lot of Pokemon want to take a boosted Stored Power, and the rare Dark and Steel-types that can afford to switch into this move such as Shiftry, Pawniard and Bronzor get nucked by a +2 Heat Wave.

 

[Tuthur]

Voting stage is now open.
Set 1
-Floatzel
-Marowak

Set 2
-Purugly
-Zebstrika

Set 3
-Chatot
-Raichu
-Swoobat

 

[papita]

Marowak
Purugly
Raichu

 

[Tuthur]

Marowak
Purugly
Raichu

 

[underwhellming]

Marowak
Purugly
Chatot

 

[Tuthur]

Here are the results:
Set 1:

Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Knock Off
- Double-Edge / Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Marowak is a great anti-lead since it can defeat every Steath Rock setter not nammed Cradily (Persian doesn't beat Cradily after all) and can even even OHKO Golem with Bonemerang. Also unlike Persian it has access to Stealth Rock which makes it a better lead.

Set 2:

Purugly @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Sucker Punch / Knock Off
- Fake Out
- U-turn

Poke-Garfield here has roughly the same physical movepool as Kanto Persian, but notably is slightly stronger, has access to Sucker Punch, and has an extremely useful ability in Defiant. The speed tier is roughly the same as well. Simple as that, really.

Set 3:

Raichu @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice

Raichu is a much more proficient user of Nasty Plot thanks to its excellent Electric/Fighting coverage. Most specially defensive walls such as Lickilicky, Altaria, or Mareanie struggle with taking Raichu's moveset. Raichu's high speed tier but better Special Attack make it much more effective as a late-game cleaner.

 

[Tuthur]

Slate 11: A Pokemon whose stats are far lower than expected, Tropius.

Set 1: Dragon Dance

Tropius @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Fly
- Earthquake / Roost

With its access to Dragon Dance, respectable bulk and looking like a flying Dragon, Tropius looks alike Salamence or Gyarados. But the likeness ends here, Tropius' speed and attack stats are far to low to make a good use of dragon dance. Tropius gets outsped by a lot of offense staples at +1 like Rapidash, Floatzel and Raichu and speed ties with the Simis. Even at +2 it gets outsped by the most common Scarfers aka the 95s speed one.

Set 2: SubLeech

Tropius @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Roost
- Air Slash

Tropius has a great bulk for ZU and access to Leech Seed coupled with Air Slash to break through Grass-types. However Tropius struggles to find set up opportunities due to its low Speed and the fact it's weak to most attackers in ZU such as Rapidash, Ice Beam Silvallies, Floatzel, Abomasnow, etc.

 

[7shoes]

[Set 2]
Fraxure @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
-Stomping Tantrum
- Superpower / Poison Jab / Aqua Tail

Fraxure is surely the best dragon dance user in the current metagame thanks to a correct attack, a pretty good talent and an insane movepool which allows it to pass the biggest threat of the meta. Its dragon type is near non-resisted in the metagame due to the absence of good fairy and steel type.
Outrage is a powerful move which helps Fraxure to clean the game once steel type have been remove (most part of time Bronzor)
Stomping Tantrum may help Fraxure to kill mon like Electivire or Rapidash and especially Bronzor.
The last move depends of what you need and is mostly here in case you are facing a Mon that Fraxure can't pass whit the 2 others moves.