April 7* Raid: Samurott (Tera Bug)

[Chou Toshio]

Looking at the various builds, and my own thinking/experience, I do think standard Belly Drum Azu will be no fun the main meta. Cloyster makes sense too absent of a big special non-ice move.

If there are no late stat wipes I do think that Curse Dondozo just overruns this eventuality. Especially if this has extra move Rain Dance— for those with experience against 6* Paldea Water Tauros and Dondozo, you know how out of hand Water Types can get against a Rain Dance boss who isn’t itself Tera Water (6* Water Tauros soooooo owned by Azu). If it is going to boost Azu/Dondozo’s attacks with Rain on top of the Water moves, they’ll be hitting HARD, definitely comparable to Super Effective STAB.

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

Another consideration for choosing what to use for this raid is that a lot of people already have a Belly Drum Azumarill trained up; many of them will just go in with that instead of raising something new.

 

[Original Dragon Arkvelza]

I can't help but wonder how Belly Drum Defense Curl Rollout Azumarill will do. Sure, Rollout gets stronger with each consecutive use and it even has the unique affect of being even stronger if used immediately after Defense Curl, but there are 2 problems.

1: Rollout has 90 accuracy, and we all know how misleading accuracy can be if it's not 100 (I literally have to give my Annihilape a Wide Lens just so it doesn't miss Screech, and even then you'd be surprised how many times I miss). And considering you're gonna be using Belly Drum there's no way you're giving up healing for more accuracy with an item.

2: We have absolutely no idea when Samurott will summon the shield. For all we know it could be just like Surf Pikachu and summon it right off the bat and it covers the entire health bar (At the very least Pikachu never got rid of your buffs, just his debuffs). At that point you're gonna need to Terastallize to deal decent damage, but you'd have to be a complete fool to Terastallize into a Rock Type against a water type.

Pretty much the best case scenario here is that Samurott doesn't have an ice move, so you can bring bring something like tera Flying Corviknight, but I assure there is a 95% chance this thing will have an ice move, I swear. If it does then the next best case scenario is it's Blizzard. If it's not, our only hope is Tera Fire Water Absorb.

 

[R_N]

While I would definitely not tera into a rock type against Samurott here, I will say that I think that just terastalyzing in general will increase your damage output against the shield?

Either that or I have gotten stunningly high rolls on "off type" moves while tera'd

 

[Cobalt Empoleon]

While I would definitely not tera into a rock type against Samurott here, I will say that I think that just terastalyzing in general will increase your damage output against the shield?

Either that or I have gotten stunningly high rolls on "off type" moves while tera'd

According to this research cited by Bulbapedia on their Tera Raid Battle page:

While the Tera Raid boss's shield is active, your final damage is reduced in this way:
-Not Terastallized = 20%
-Terastallized + move is different type = 35%
-Terastallized + move is same type = 75%

This damage value is rounded normally (0.5 rounds up, otherwise round down).

...with those percentage values of course being what the damage is reduced to, not reduced by.

So yeah, even 'off-type' moves used against the shield are 1.75x more powerful after you Terastallize (vs 3.75x for moves that match your Tera type). However, these are just the standard values and 7* raids have been using slightly different percentages

Charizard, Cinderace, and Greninja had numbers very similar to the stock raid 20/35/75 Tera shield damage reduction. They all used 20/30/70 instead.

So instead we're likely looking at 1.5x damage for off-type moves and 3.5x for same-type moves after Terastallizing.

 

[War Incarnate]

hm this raid looks like it'll be quite difficult to solo.

outside of azumarill and ig iron hands has anyone found a good way to solo?

 

[R_N]

hm this raid looks like it'll be quite difficult to solo.

outside of azumarill and ig iron hands has anyone found a good way to solo?

We need to see what Samurott's moves and gimmicks are before we can really ask that, which is probably why most of our theorycrafting is trending towards support

 

[DougJustDoug]

I haven't made this, but I'll be thinking about it when we get more info on Samurott's moveset:


Drednaw
Ability: Shell Armor
Item: Leftovers / Loaded Dice
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Chilling Water / Liquidation
- Iron Defense
- Swords Dance

Drednaw's base 74 speed vs Samurott's base 70 speed bodes well defensively, as Drednaw can Iron Defense or Chilling Water before a hard physical hit, which will probably be Megahorn. Shell Armor eliminates crit shenanigans making ID even more epic on this build. Fast setup with Swords Dance is another huge plus since lately these 7* raids have been moving super fast. Rock Blast isn't great, even with the massive BP you get if you run Loaded Dice, because the hit animation takes FOREVERRRRR! Stone Edge has PP issues and big accuracy problems. Liquidation could be a good option if Samurott likes to Rain Dance, as Chou Toshio pointed out. In general, Drednaw has survivability issues without any great recovery option.

The big attractions with Drednaw are the ability to hit STAB SE, while being neutral or better to a brutally efficient Bug/Water/Ice attacking coverage kit. Being able to setup fast offensively is a must. Being able to setup defensively and being crit-immune is just icing on the cake.

We'll see, but I'm keeping it in mind.

 

[AztecCroc]

I haven't made this, but I'll be thinking about it when we get more info on Samurott's moveset:


Drednaw
Ability: Shell Armor
Item: Leftovers / Loaded Dice
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Chilling Water / Liquidation
- Iron Defense
- Swords Dance

Drednaw's base 74 speed vs Samurott's base 70 speed bodes well defensively, as Drednaw can Iron Defense or Chilling Water before a hard physical hit, which will probably be Megahorn. Shell Armor eliminates crit shenanigans making ID even more epic on this build. Fast setup with Swords Dance is another huge plus since lately these 7* raids have been moving super fast. Rock Blast isn't great, even with the massive BP you get if you run Loaded Dice, because the hit animation takes FOREVERRRRR! Stone Edge has PP issues and big accuracy problems. Liquidation could be a good option if Samurott likes to Rain Dance, as Chou Toshio pointed out. In general, Drednaw has survivability issues without any great recovery option.

The big attractions with Drednaw are the ability to hit STAB SE, while being neutral or better to a brutally efficient Bug/Water/Ice attacking coverage kit. Being able to setup fast offensively is a must. Being able to setup defensively and being crit-immune is just icing on the cake.

We'll see, but I'm keeping it in mind.

You remember Samurott gets Sacred Sword right? A Fighting type move that ignores the target's Defense boosts?

 

[Chou Toshio]

I haven't made this, but I'll be thinking about it when we get more info on Samurott's moveset:


Drednaw
Ability: Shell Armor
Item: Leftovers / Loaded Dice
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Chilling Water / Liquidation
- Iron Defense
- Swords Dance

Drednaw's base 74 speed vs Samurott's base 70 speed bodes well defensively, as Drednaw can Iron Defense or Chilling Water before a hard physical hit, which will probably be Megahorn. Shell Armor eliminates crit shenanigans making ID even more epic on this build. Fast setup with Swords Dance is another huge plus since lately these 7* raids have been moving super fast. Rock Blast isn't great, even with the massive BP you get if you run Loaded Dice, because the hit animation takes FOREVERRRRR! Stone Edge has PP issues and big accuracy problems. Liquidation could be a good option if Samurott likes to Rain Dance, as Chou Toshio pointed out. In general, Drednaw has survivability issues without any great recovery option.

The big attractions with Drednaw are the ability to hit STAB SE, while being neutral or better to a brutally efficient Bug/Water/Ice attacking coverage kit. Being able to setup fast offensively is a must. Being able to setup defensively and being crit-immune is just icing on the cake.

We'll see, but I'm keeping it in mind.

I love it! Shell Guard makes Iron Defense much more reliable. I’m thinking health is going to be more important than extra damage though, so I might try this with Shell Bell Rock Slide over Loaded Dice Rock Blast. This highlights advantages over Cloyster too because if Cloyster cannot go Shell Guard without relying on terrible non-STAB non-Skill Link Rock Blast. And SD > Shell Smash here clearly.

AztecCroc got a point about Sacred Sword but I think the odds of Samurott not having it are decent. We’ll have to see, like with all 7* before moves released.

If rain confirmed, I’d also imagine Liquidation > Chilling Water like you said, since you got Iron Defense to bolster defenses anyway, and the healing from Shell Bell and potential Defense drops also contribute to your own sturdiness.

Looks quite promising.

 

[Vengeance417]

You remember Samurott gets Sacred Sword right? A Fighting type move that ignores the target's Defense boosts?

It could also potentially run Grass Knot, which is the worse of the two to run in to as that's an OHKO. Sacred Sword is a 3HKO, in comparison. You could run that Drednaw set alongside Reflect support, which would turn that calc into this:

0+ Atk Tera Bug Samurott Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drednaw through Reflect: 78-92 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

I wonder if Sacred Sword ignores Defense cheers. If it doesn't, that would further boost this set's viability imo. Chilling Water would be the ideal other move to run to further weaken Sacred Sword. Use that over Iron Defense.

 

[AztecCroc]

It could also potentially run Grass Knot, which is the worse of the two to run in to as that's an OHKO. Sacred Sword is a 3HKO, in comparison. You could run that Drednaw set alongside Reflect support, which would turn that calc into this:

0+ Atk Tera Bug Samurott Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Drednaw through Reflect: 78-92 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

I wonder if Sacred Sword ignores Defense cheers. If it doesn't, that would further boost this set's viability imo. Chilling Water would be the ideal other move to run to further weaken Sacred Sword. Use that over Iron Defense.

How do the cheers work exactly? Do the just give stat stages or do they apply a separate modifier? If it's the former it should, if it's the latter it shouldn't.

 

[Worldie]

How do the cheers work exactly? Do the just give stat stages or do they apply a separate modifier? If it's the former it should, if it's the latter it shouldn't.

From what we saw, they are their own modifiers like the ruin abilities / paradox abilities
They don't show on the pokemon sheet either

 

[Vengeance417]

The raid is now LIVE!

Here's the full moveset. It uses Focus Energy at the beginning of the battle. Discuss.

 

[R_N]

Moves
Aqua Cutter
Megahorn
Night Slash
Drill Run

Additional Moves
Focus Energy
Swords Dance
Bulldoze

That's...really not the moveset I expected. Bulldoze in particular feels head scratching. Shell Armor Cloyster feels like the hard counter dejour

 

[AztecCroc]

Moves
Aqua Cutter
Megahorn
Night Slash
Drill Run

Additional Moves
Focus Energy
Swords Dance
Bulldoze

That's...really not the moveset I expected. Bulldoze in particular feels head scratching. Shell Armor Cloyster feels like the hard counter dejour

Bulldoze is a weak spread move like Air Cutter, beware of multi attacking bullshit.

 

[Krockodile]

Moves
Aqua Cutter
Megahorn
Night Slash
Drill Run

Additional Moves
Focus Energy
Swords Dance
Bulldoze

That's...really not the moveset I expected. Bulldoze in particular feels head scratching. Shell Armor Cloyster feels like the hard counter dejour

I might understand why the moveset is like that.
This raid is focusing on increasing its critical hit rate, and then using high crit moves like Night Slash, Aqua Cutter and Drill Run to deal high damage.

I think Drill run is meant for Fire Types that think they can Sun against Samurott.

Shell Armor Cloyster can be useful against Samurott. Though I'm not sure what it can do against the boss.

 

[Nokocchi]

Shell Armor Cloyster can be useful against Samurott. Though I'm not sure what it can do against the boss.

Chilling Water and Life Dew

 

[R_N]

I might understand why the moveset is like that.
This raid is focusing on increasing its critical hit rate, and then using high crit moves like Night Slash, Aqua Cutter and Drill Run to deal high damage.

I think Drill run is meant for Fire Types that think they can Sun against Samurott.

Shell Armor Cloyster can be useful against Samurott. Though I'm not sure what it can do against the boss.

Iron Defense to bolster defense to offset Shell Smash, then hit in with Rock Blast. Alternatively (or, i naddition, depending on the phase of the battle) support with Chilling Water

 

[Chou Toshio]

Focus Energy Crit Happy Samurott? I think Anger Point Water Tauros is it— gonna try.

Azu not great cause of 2 Wipe timings.

 

[R_N]

i've got a cloyster ready to go, gonna try it a few times to figure out the timings and figure the best way to support/attack

this first match will be very bad however because a dummy is bringing their charizard. I'll...try my best....

Corviknight, Charizard, Iron Hands

lord give me strength

 

[Worldie]

Here's the full moveset. It uses Focus Energy at the beginning of the battle. Discuss.

I swear they read what I wrote again.

Well well let's get ready

 

[R_N]

So predictably the match where samurott kept nuking the chariard & iron hands did not get past the shield, but some key features I saw:
-the party debuff is very early on
-the debuff removal is about half way through the health bar

so i say just do some basic chip support until yo usee the debuff, then start experimenting with Iron Defense & Shell Smash so you can be ready to start rock blasting.

I think the optimal thing for this might actually be a party of 4 Cloysters

 

[Arcticblast]

I took a Dragalge into this fight intending to lose and gather information. I accidentally won! I wouldn't recommend Dragalge because of Drill Run and Bulldoze, but I got super lucky with Mud Slap and some helpful AI (thanks Discharge!).

I don't really know how viable setting up against Samurott is. It clears your buffs twice - supposedly once at 78 seconds, and once at 65% HP. It only clears its own debuffs once, so maybe Screech Corviknight is on the menu?

I'm going to bring Anger Point Tauros and see how goofy I can get

 

[R_N]

attempt 2: Miraidon, Koraidon, Cinderace

I should at this point point out i nicknamed Cloyster with abbreviations of its moveset, in some vein attempt to communicate