Cindrace doesn't like being paralyzed tho. Also Pyro Ball is 3HKO against defensive Dos, so it's not like you put on as much pressure as you expect on Zapdos, given its 8 PP and 90% acc.
Actually, Ghold is the reason for the boots stuff. We have good options for hazard control, but one pesky Ghold, and it's tough to break, leading to big chip, and quite often. Hence the higher need for boots on pretty much everything. Would love to run leftovers on Blissey and Dozo, but the threat of Ghold prevents that. And it wasn't Glisc's fault for that. Before Glisc, we had to handle Hamurott. Before Hamu, we had to handle Ting Lu, Garchomp and Glimmora. Corv forces Glisc into a losing PP stall war. We didn't need 6 boots last gen, cause we could clear hazards in a pinch.
Most Glimm sets already run Power Gem already. There's no point in running Energy Ball just for Tusk if it means you cannot do anything against Corv. Also I have seen Tera Ghost H-Samurott because it is also good against Spin attempts from Tusk.
Smart webs players aren't going to stay in on cinderace with bee, in addition, cinderace is not bulky in the slightest, yeah it clicks the button real good but it can't come in on an opposing button very well at all. And kingambit isn't an argument to keep gholdengo in the tier because kingambit should have been checkmated a long time ago. It's also hard to justify a prediction like you want on Ghold with enam because Enam is not bulky and has a mediocre at best defensive typing. Gholdengo on paper isn't banworthy, but it's more than the sum of its parts and is banworthy in practice
Have you considered the fact that last gen also has Lando-T, Torna-T, Zapdos and many more? A lot of them can easily threaten spikers like Ferrothorn, so it isn't really hard to stop Spike Stacking.
"Corv forces Glisc into a PP Stall war" is kind of dumb, cause that also means you let Gliscor having time to recover back to full and then switch out. You make no actual progress outside wasting time and becoming a momentum sink because the Gliscor suddenly switches out.
Maybe it's something since the jump to 3D where every generation that is divisible by 3 will have a lot of trouble with hazard removal. We have a sample size of 2 right now but I think that's enough to prove my conspiracy theory.
Please. Just read all of the things above. This is not gen 8 anymore. We are not dealing with slow bricks like Ferrothorn anymore.
It's not exactly difficult to account for these hard hitters that take advantage of the defoggers in teambuilder. Building smart in addition to the removal of Gholdanshower will let people who want to use these defoggers answer the things that switch into your passive defoggers
I love how GF feels like they suddenly want to make Hazard much stronger this gen. Gholdengo, more limited distribution of Defog, more distribution for Spikes setters.
I feel that back in gen 8, outside the cases that a random Magnezone comes in, Defogging feels much safer because you also have a lot of options to also threaten the incoming things. Like Tornadus-T, Zapdos, Lando-T being able to actually put on some offensive pressure is also something to account for.
galarian weezing will drop without hazard stack, its main niche is “defog without gholdengo switching in to block”
Which hazard setters abuse the “passive” mons in question. None of them want to be knocked/Toxic’d by Mandibuzz, and Corv eats mons like Ting-Lu and HRott with Body Press. Honestly, Ferro is better into these passive defoggers then the current hazard setters.
It's time. Bulky Tera Fairy Thundurus-Therian WILL be hardwalling raging bolt and doing NOTHING to it in return but it WILL be funny.
tbf they did say it was more niche but to theorize a useful position for it: team that struggles with ting-lu and also needs ultra role compression.
Any encore mon that can switch into them. Are you gonna click Toxic and then switch out without being able to defog or defogging and switching out, being afraid that opponent may click Encore?
Encore from what?
So if you switch into Mandibuzz in the middle of a bunch of Hazard and I cannot threaten Mandibuzz, do you expect me to stay or what?
In some fairness I can see it as more of a "this makes sense on paper and flounders in practice" than a bad idea at base. Conk's Fighting STAB and high Physical bulk means in theory it threatens the Dark-Type Spikers like Ting-Lu and Hamurott, as some miscellaneous stuff like Kingambit that likes to pair with it, with threatening the Hazard setters being a major benefit to a theoretical remover to prevent them going back up.
I could legitimately see Conkeldurr being niche as a hazard-clearing wallbreaker that nails Samurott-H and Ting-Lu and Scizor as a nice anti-Aurora Veil measure, but I don’t see Cinderace staying OU in a Gholdengo-less meta. Especially if Kingambit gets banned too.
so your opponent brings in mandibuzz to defog hazards, you switch into iron valiant expecting defog....now what? first of all what if it doesnt even go for defog, are you gonna risk eating a toxic on the switch? second of all even if mandibuzz defogs as iron valiant comes in, its not uncounterable for the rest of its team either. i think youre slightly overestimating how threatening iron valiant is for bulkier playstyles, since its not too much trouble to pivot around for fat. even if you force mandibuzz out and setup its still not an instant win, far from it in fact
I mean a lot of these mons don't even run offensive investment at all on their defog sets. They put on a tiny amount of pressure from their base offenses just by being legends, but its not like they are that much better themselves. There really isnt anything that wrong with just passive defogging and getting out. Undoing 3 turns of spike stack in one move is enough. Meanwhile Ghold still is quite problematic even with all of these threats having access to defog again. Just look at NatDex they had to ban Gholdengo over there too and they have many more defog options than us.
Valiant is just one example. There is also Rockpon/Waterpon too. The former is likely to rise if Ghold is axed.
