Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
It's crazy how we, damn near, say the same thing, but look at the reactions. I can definitely tell what kinda people be on this forum.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3
- Thread starter TPP
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I can actually help with this one, the team you mentioned is semi-stall. Stall mons like blissey, two attacks dozo, and amnesia clod have zero focus on offensive presence and exert little to no immediate offensive presence, however balance walls like dirge, toxic clod, and garg have a much more immediately threatening offensive presence thanks to status, hazards, or boosting alongside their defensive capabilities (garg actually has access to all 3).
Absolutely not, you said, and I quote:
which is just straight up wrong, and almost the exact opposite of what DaddyBuzzwole said. Almost all HO mons banned? What are you smoking?
So these mons ain't a thing now? And these are just the most popular ones, there's a dude that got n.1 on the ladder with an Iron Jugulis for fuck's sake. Also, nobody here said that Stall doesn't exist, and nobody is trying to silence you, we're just pointing out the dumb shit you're saying, so stop trying to victimize yourself so goddamn much.
Btw, I don't agree with this statement either. While Gliscor was absolutely used in Offense and HO teams as well, it was very popular in Balance and Stall strategies in particular. H-stack was basically everywhere during the Gliscor meta, regardless of the team.
HO players after every ban.
Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
I mean, you know the name of the game: gotta play something that outspeeds everything else to win because they lack the proper skill to run something like a Balance team.
Stall also had Donbozo which hard walled sneasler without multiple turns of serious hax
Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
So, I've been using Tera Type Flying Clodsire with Tera Blast, and it's goated at setting up hazards because nothing can, realistically, counter it. All you do is click Recover when you're weak, rinse, and repeat. Y'all must don't know how many times I've had to drop Great Tusk to stop it from hazard cleaning. From that point, it's easy to stall because you check the opponent, and then chip damage them until they're in OHKO revenge killing range.
My Tornadus-Therian, with Choice Scarf and Air Slash, or Cinderace, with U-Turn and Super Fang, makes this process entirely easier.
My Tornadus-Therian, with Choice Scarf and Air Slash, or Cinderace, with U-Turn and Super Fang, makes this process entirely easier.
It really doesn't matter what game you're playing, people just fundamentally hate playing against control style strategies. It makes sense to some degree. People have limited time and if you can only play for a short time frame getting two or three stall match ups in a row when you could have gotten in twice that otherwise is a point of frustration for people. Another point of frustration is players want to feel as if they're making progress while they play and it is much harder to get that feeling in a stall match up when you attack a fat pink blob for the umpteenth time and it just heals off all the damage you did. Players complain when they aren't having fun and for a lot of people matchups that are a slog to get through aren't, even if that play style isn't good. And I say all of this a someone whose favorite thing to do in most TCGs is play midrange and control. I'm not defending people for wanting to nothing more than "me go face" game play, just to explain why control style play is always complained about.
I agree that stall can be annoying but it’s not even difficult to play against right now. I’d rather see more stall, balance, and a diversity of team types than the HO cheese fest that has dominated the ladder as of late. It seems like people just want this tier to be as brain dead and instantly gratifying as possible. It is a sign of a healthy meta when there is diversity of styles being used. Not Rilla-Sneasler(thank goodness it’s gone)-Manaphy-Kingambit teams every match.
I love a good salt post. Some of these last couple pages are LOL. That’s how I feel about Garganacl. Stupid mon. But Garg is coming. Think about it before banning the string cheese man.
I love a good salt post. Some of these last couple pages are LOL. That’s how I feel about Garganacl. Stupid mon. But Garg is coming. Think about it before banning the string cheese man.
kid named thundurus-therian:
I am coming around on the lad, he's the strong boy I've always loved and adored, but I'm still not convinced that choiced is the move. Scarf is good but at the same time NP is so obscenely strong. Either way I'm sorry I doubted you thundy, please forgive your gen 7 propagandist.
Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
Aye! I'm an OG Thundy fan, but you're right. If you're gonna use any setup move, you're kinda obligated to NOT use an item that's gotta move lock you.
the reason I'm iffy between scarf and NP sets is because base 101 speed isn't the greatest speed tier in the world. It's the biggest achilles heal of an otherwise decent zapdos knockoff in gen 7 (HP Ice > HP flying btw). Thundy just can't run bulky as well as Zapdos can for a number of reasons, the biggest of which is lack of roost. I love him tho
Kenpwnchi
formerly Pwndkthnx
You're absolutely correct. In fact, Zapdos does outshine Thundy in EVERY way; even through the highly useful ability: Static. Zapdos also has access to Roost, Tailwind, and a slew of other things that can take advantage of its bulk.
Honestly, if Thundy had access to roost, I think he'd have a better defensive profile than Zapdos on paper. Volt Absorb is an amazing ability and it's valuable in preventing momentum. It's no use theorizing about that tho, we should focus on what Thundy does better than Zapdos, which is hit really hard.
i think thundy-i might even be solid with roost—priority healing is definitely not a thing to underestimate, even when your bulk isn't great
…then again, it still wouldn't have much going for it that thundy-t and zapdos don't cover, so maybe not. who knows?
Thundy-I in general is probably super unexplored in gen 7 onwards. He's definitely not as good as he was in gen 6 but he's definitely worth exploring more than he probably is currently
See, I wouldn't say it outshines it in every way, considering there are very objective metrics in which Thundurus-T outclasses Zapdos, in both speed, and more obviously Special Attack.
NP sets are decent right now, and gives it an obvious edge, however, another very important particularity is Volt Absorb. Making Thundurus-T able to sit on the aforementioned Zapdos, and use it for setup fodder, as well as denying its pivoting attempts with Volt Switch.
Specs and Scarf sets are only really worth considering if you're able to make Thundy one of your dedicated tera abusers, because special Flying Tera Blast off of that special attack stats hits SUPER hard, and there aren't really any Flying resists that appreciate taking a Tbolt or Volt Switch.
A “stall resurgence” won’t happen LOL. Stall relies on VERY similar Pokemon (one of them was banned through suspect even???) Offense can use a lot of different non-passive Pokemon, even balance allows for diversity, but stall is very hard to pull off with this high of power-creep. HO Inc. needs to stop worrying about a “Blob” market (blob replacing bear market if you understand the stock market)
IMO I’ve used both extensively and even tried on the same team. They have different niches. Thundy is a breaker and electric immunity. Zapdos is a wall. Not the same by any stretch. Zapdos is the better mon and more splashable. But let’s not act like they do the same things.
i disagree with this. there are several of those out there that aren't in ou proper but still occupy a niche in the tier. we still have iron treads, magnezone, sandy shocks, the rare eelektross or bellibolt, hisuian goodra (which i still think has a place in this tier and i am perfectly willing to die on this hill), archaludon and eviolite duraludon soon, and of course opposing thundy-t, plus anything that runs tera electric. nothing with very widespread usage, true, but there are definitely some notable mons that can tank flying and electric
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None of these are reliable Tera Blast switchins
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Flying Thundurus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Iron Treads: 189-223 (49.2 - 58%) -- 59.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Flying Thundurus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sandy Shocks: 162-191 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Flying Thundurus-Therian Tera Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 170-201 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You could make an argument for Tera Electric mons, but in practice, you could only really say something like Tera Electric Garganacl really counters it
Magnezone is a bit iffy, because it fears Focus Blast, but it at least has a 4x Flying resist.
Sneasler, despite being my favourite Pokémon, definitely had to go. Unburden was annoying and Dire Claw is stupidly overpowered. As someone with horrible RNG which almost led me to quit competitive pokemon (true story) I knew that Sneasler was annoying for the meta game. This means that Rillaboom’s usage will drop drastically and Okidogi might rise up. Like I’ve said before many time, Okidogi is just a fusion of Buzzwole and Sneasler. Sneasler was definitely more OP than Gliscor and it is obvious to see why. Sneasler poison touch Dire Claw is also extremely infuriating. In my opinion Sneasler is actually just more annoying than broken but the thing is that it was annoying in an unhealthy way for the meta game. It in my opinion goes in the tier 4 of brokenness, for context:
The 5 tiers of brokenness:
1. Tad bit broken, only gets a suspect test if the community wants one
2. Maybe suspect test
3. Definitely suspect test
4. maybe quick ban but more likely suspect test
5. Quick ban
Blissey has a solid chance for being at least okay again since toxic being removed and soft boiled PP being cut in half was a huge nerf for it. Fezandipiti could also become good since it’s just specially defensive Gliscor without hazards.
The 5 tiers of brokenness:
1. Tad bit broken, only gets a suspect test if the community wants one
2. Maybe suspect test
3. Definitely suspect test
4. maybe quick ban but more likely suspect test
5. Quick ban
Blissey has a solid chance for being at least okay again since toxic being removed and soft boiled PP being cut in half was a huge nerf for it. Fezandipiti could also become good since it’s just specially defensive Gliscor without hazards.
Fuck it we're bringing back bulky thundy t from hour 1 of home metagame. No more games we will now be taking a (1) hit
21st. the "??? type" that curse was is technically a different type than "typeless"—??? was officially retired as a type in gen 5, while "typeless" as a type (or non-type) still exists for scenarios like confusion damage, struggle damage, and burn up/double shock. even though they have the same set of weaknesses and resistances, they're distinct. so technically there are two separate completely neutral types. and if we count shadow as a typing, this new typing would be the 22nd (some might say the 23rd because the shadow type in colosseum works very differently than the shadow type in xd so an argument can be made that they're two different types, but since they share every other quality besides type effectiveness, and since the type chart has been changed before, i believe them to be the same). of course, we can't include glitch types or this would be the 42nd type (with a relatively consistent name; there are over 200 more junk-data "types" in gen 1 because the game was coded on the back of a cocktail napkin with a sharpie marker that was almost out of marker juice)
this is what you get for trying to "well technically" me. i am the patron saint of technicalities. only two people have ever been able to out-technicality me and they're both dead now (for unrelated reasons)
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