Project OM Mashup Megathread

[Discordual]

https://pokepast.es/0b9c5868387b258a a sand team I've been running in PokeAAA. Not really anything spectacular, I just feel like it might be interesting to note how strong weather teams can be with a lot of mons having multiple abilities that synergize with the same weather as well as the additional ability choice allowing for extra versatility or power.
This is with the caveat that these teams lose hard to primal weather so if you can't find the counterplay you will lose. That said there is a lot of versatility with these teams and what weathers you use. While primal weathers aren't that strong for supporting whole teams since they are removed when the mon that summoned them switches out they can help in primal weather matchups and can benefit the mon running primal weather if they have natural abilities that benefit from their primal weather.

Something I've been quite enjoying using is Guts Stoutland with sand support. I'm not running a full sand team, just sand + sand immune mons, but Stoutland gets STAB guts scrappy facade with 110 base attack, and a great speed tier in sand. Superpower hits steels, wild charge hits flying steels, and stomping tantrum can OHKO Desolate Land Heatran, who you outspeed. It also can function as an effective status absorber while offering great offensive pressure.

That being said, it requires quite a bit of support. With only one immunity and no resistances, it doesn't appreciate taking most attacks, so often needs pivot support from teammates like Blissey or Slowbro, who don't benefit from sand, especially on the first switch to safely activate its flame orb. It also can't switch into Corviknight, as mirror armour reflects its intimidate back to it, and it also can't kill volt absorb Corviknight without serious prior chip. While it wins against most physically defensive walls, it doesn't appreciate iron barbs/rocky helmet/rough skin + burn damage + susceptibility to all entry hazards, and other abilities than guts aren't worth running, as facade is Stoutland's best STAB move. It also has difficulty against priority, as it frequently gets chipped into range of the various strong priority moves available. But with smart play, and a bit of good support, or just with a good matchup, the rewards for using Stoutland are great. He's also very fun

 

[Cuddly]

DARK MEAT SPECIAL

I put the "AAA" in PokAAAbilities because my increasingly deranged builds have TERRORIZED the ladder, probably the greatest player on the site rn (all the good ones are a,t work so it counts ;] ) this team goes hard

So that this post is a bit more constructive

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1567663279-7ju5sgt4t0kr24x0vfza3flz8mm0cf5pw
Looks like this both does and does not work, at least for Poison Touch. I would assume that Stench works similarly to what was shown in the replay: if Stench flinches, Sheer Force activates. If not, nothing happens. That's the kind of jank I like to see in my Other Metagames.

This might be a bug with Poison Touch. Each move has a stack of secondary effects, and Poison Touch/Stench are supposed to add to the stack.

Codes

Code of Stench:

stench: {
        onModifyMovePriority: -1,
        onModifyMove(move) {
            if (move.category !== "Status") {
                this.debug('Adding Stench flinch');
                if (!move.secondaries) move.secondaries = [];
                for (const secondary of move.secondaries) {
                    if (secondary.volatileStatus === 'flinch') return;
                }
                move.secondaries.push({
                    chance: 10,
                    volatileStatus: 'flinch',
                });
            }
        },
        name: "Stench",
        rating: 0.5,
        num: 1,
    },

Code of Poison Touch:

poisontouch: {
        // upokecenter says this is implemented as an added secondary effect
        onModifyMove(move) {
            if (!move?.flags['contact'] || move.target === 'self') return;
            if (!move.secondaries) {
                move.secondaries = [];
            }
            move.secondaries.push({
                chance: 30,
                status: 'psn',
                ability: this.dex.abilities.get('poisontouch'),
            });
        },
        name: "Poison Touch",
        rating: 2,
        num: 143,
    },

Code of Sheer Force:

sheerforce: {
        onModifyMove(move, pokemon) {
            if (move.secondaries) {
                delete move.secondaries;
                // Technically not a secondary effect, but it is negated
                delete move.self;
                if (move.id === 'clangoroussoulblaze') delete move.selfBoost;
                // Actual negation of `AfterMoveSecondary` effects implemented in scripts.js
                move.hasSheerForce = true;
            }
        },
        onBasePowerPriority: 21,
        onBasePower(basePower, pokemon, target, move) {
            if (move.hasSheerForce) return this.chainModify([5325, 4096]);
        },
        name: "Sheer Force",
        rating: 3.5,
        num: 125,
    },

Code of Fire Fang as example:

firefang: {
        num: 424,
        accuracy: 95,
        basePower: 65,
        category: "Physical",
        name: "Fire Fang",
        pp: 15,
        priority: 0,
        flags: {bite: 1, contact: 1, protect: 1, mirror: 1},
        secondaries: [
            {
                chance: 10,
                status: 'brn',
            }, {
                chance: 10,
                volatileStatus: 'flinch',
            },
        ],
        target: "normal",
        type: "Fire",
        contestType: "Cool",
    },

With the code, Poison Touch SHOULD be giving Horn Attack 30% chance to poison 100% of the time, but instead the code applies poison at 100% chance 30% of the time, which means the game only applies Sheer Force 30% of the time.

Since Poison Touch and Stench add Secondary Effects to the Secondaries stack, and Sheer Force checks and then deletes the Secondaries Stack, Sheer Force SHOULD be working 100% of the time.

I'll address this to bugs and see what they say.

 

[Cuddly]

So apparently, Poison Touch (and likely Stench) apply 100% Secondary Effects 30%/10% of the time instead of 30%/10% Secondary Effects 100% of the time, or something.
Since Poison Touch/Stench are supposed to always add to the Secondaries Stack, and Sheer Force always removes the Secondaries Stack and adds a 1.3x Multiplier.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1567663279-7ju5sgt4t0kr24x0vfza3flz8mm0cf5pw
In this replay, Sheer Force only activates 30% of the time despite Nidoking having both Poison Touch + Sheer Force.
Here and here are post about this as well.

 

[pyuking muku]

Was goofing around with PokeAAA and made this:

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
​

I couldn't fit Regenerator on Blissey originally, and tried Mold Breaker, but it wasn't that useful. Corrosion lets Blissey pressure the many bulky Steels that this team would struggle with breaking like Corv, Skarm, Ferro, and Tran. One of my highest damagers on the team despite being so passive.

Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Spite
- Recover
- Rest
​

Pyukumuku but he's essentially Taunt-immune. Pretty self-explanatory. Also serves as hazard prevention. Works surprisingly well against Ferro and Pex.

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Dauntless Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Focus Blast
- Recover​

The wincon. Bulky as hell, strong as hell. Inherent immunity to status and Regenerator recovery is also huge for operating as a bulky pivot in early to mid game.

Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Protect
- Power Whip
​

Farewell, all you Cincinnos that forgot Protective Pads and Magic Guard. Does normal Ferro things, but gives physical attackers and pivots an even bigger middle finger.

Gastrodon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Clear Smog
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Recover
​

I added Gastrodong because I needed a good Stored Power prevention mon. There aren't any good Hazers that I liked, so I looked for Clear Smog users. Gastro is bulky, isn't weak to most SP users, and provides great defensive synergy with Ferro and Tran, in addition to absorbing Knock Off, spreading burns, and Quaking Tran. Sap Sipper boosts its defensive utility and prevents a weakness redundancy with Pyukumuku.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 188 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Protect
- Earth Power
- Toxic​

A standard PokeAAA Tran set, but with Blissey covering Rocks, Tran can run Toxic to help hit Magic Bouncers like Hat and Bliss. Serves as the team's main offensive mon and helps it to more actively threaten Steels.

Hope y'all have a great day! Good luck to all college students taking finals now or soon!

 

[drampa's grandpa]

This is a little post about Triage in PokeAAA, with which I hope to spark more discussion.

I feel that Triage is an unhealthy presence in the metagame right now. This metagame is rather polarized into the two extremes of hard stall (very viable, if not as common because people don't like stall) and offensive archetypes. For the offensive archetypes this has led to it being very difficult to put pressure on opposing offensive teams without the rather specific tool of Triage, which grants both priority and longevity, while allowing the user to choose a high offensive stat.

set

Hatterene (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Giga Drain / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire / Psyshock

set

s/o Discordual for pointing out I used a banned set as an example
Kommo-o @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- Poison Jab
- Dragon Claw

Here you see a couple sample sets. Powerful, bulky, usually slow although it doesn't really matter, and powerful. They have become essential revenge killing tools, being the fastest priority attacks (that matter go away Fake Out) and are extremely hard to go without. What I find concerning is 1) that Triage has become a centralizing tool that is not only mandatory for offensive teams to prepare for but near-mandatory to build into team structure in order to have a functioning team and 2) that it is leading to a chain of Pokémon bans that would not happen if it were not in the metagame, notably including Pangoro and the recent Tapu Bulu ban due its high sweeping potential.

As to 1: speed and power are extremely high in this meta. When revenge killing it is pretty much always mandatory that you get a OHKO or force a switch, or your revenge killer is gone. While there are many options for this for any individual Pokemon, I have not found anything besides Triage users that can outpace and output the power to reliably KO opponents.

As to 2: I feel this is pretty self-explanatory. Both Bulu and Pangoro were, to my knowledge, largely banned for Triage sets. I feel that Triage is the issue here, not the individual Pokémon. Tell me, and maybe I'll change my mind; what sets on each are broken besides Triage?

There are many counterarguments possible of course, and I would love to see discussion rather than blind agreement, but what I don't want to see is the argument that a Triage restriction would lead to other bans. That happens sometimes, and we live with it, it doesn't mean we keep a broken element in the metagame.

I hope I articulated this clearly :D

 

[Discordual]

This is a little post about Triage in PokeAAA, with which I hope to spark more discussion.

I feel that Triage is an unhealthy presence in the metagame right now. This metagame is rather polarized into the two extremes of hard stall (very viable, if not as common because people don't like stall) and offensive archetypes. For the offensive archetypes this has led to it being very difficult to put pressure on opposing offensive teams without the rather specific tool of Triage, which grants both priority and longevity, while allowing the user to choose a high offensive stat.

set

Hatterene (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Giga Drain / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire / Psyshock

set

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Here you see a couple sample sets. Powerful, bulky, usually slow although it doesn't really matter, and powerful. They have become essential revenge killing tools, being the fastest priority attacks (that matter go away Fake Out) and are extremely hard to go without. What I find concerning is 1) that Triage has become a centralizing tool that is not only mandatory for offensive teams to prepare for but near-mandatory to build into team structure in order to have a functioning team and 2) that it is leading to a chain of Pokémon bans that would not happen if it were not in the metagame, notably including Pangoro and the recent Tapu Bulu ban due its high sweeping potential.

As to 1: speed and power are extremely high in this meta. When revenge killing it is pretty much always mandatory that you get a OHKO or force a switch, or your revenge killer is gone. While there are many options for this for any individual Pokemon, I have not found anything besides Triage users that can outpace and output the power to reliably KO opponents.

As to 2: I feel this is pretty self-explanatory. Both Bulu and Pangoro were, to my knowledge, largely banned for Triage sets. I feel that Triage is the issue here, not the individual Pokémon. Tell me, and maybe I'll change my mind; what sets on each are broken besides Triage?

There are many counterarguments possible of course, and I would love to see discussion rather than blind agreement, but what I don't want to see is the argument that a Triage restriction would lead to other bans. That happens sometimes, and we live with it, it doesn't mean we keep a broken element in the metagame.

I hope I articulated this clearly :D

While I agree with your point about triage being unhealthy and banworthy (I made a post above about the same thing), I think it's relevant to point out that Conkeldurr is already banned for triage antics. Belly Drum/Swords Dance Kommo-o is the current drain punch abuser.

 

[Clas]

Pokebilities AAA - Quick Update

First off, I'd like to say that Pokébilities AAA is now fully coded as a format into Pokemon Showdown! This means we can do a whole lot more with the tier without large amounts of work, and from me and the rest of the council we are grateful for this opportunity to explore the meta unlike ever before! Now, lets discuss the more interesting thing.

​

Silvally was once considered unviable due to RKS System - an ability which forces Silvally to hold a Memory Disc to change type. However, with a recent discovery, we can now confirm this is no longer the case! Simply choose its typing, replace its item and ability and you're good to go! If you're wondering on how it interacts, here is a replay showing it fully working (and not being a pseudo-identity like past-gen cases). As a result, we will be experimenting with this new addition in the metagame and strongly encourage you guys to do the same!

Zamazenta-Crowned was banned because of the possibility of it using an ability beside Dauntless Shield, an ability which has been long-considered hardcoded and unchangeable on it. However, testing proved that it could indeed use an ability beside Dauntless Shield, as shown in this replay. As a result, we will not be unbanning Zamazenta-Crowned or even be considering it ever for at least the rest of the generation.

Also, we've heard your complains about Triage, but we do not feel as if banning it would be healthy for the metagame or even solve any of its issues. We feel that it would rather do the exact opposite. Triage serves as one of the few offensive counters to a lot of the tier's offensive behemoths, including but not limited to Azumarill, Basculin, Heracross, Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and Regieleki. Banning these listed Pokemon (and others by extention) would not be healthy either, as they serve as premier wallbreakers/stallbreakers in the tier (past Refrigerate Regieleki, who is an offensive Spinner who happens to have good damage output). Furthermore, currently legal Triage users must set up in order to become a major threat, allowing defensive or offensive answers alike to come in and force Triage users out. When concerning banned Pokemon, however, Triage was only part of the story as Triage was merely an option for these powerful Pokemon, and many of the banned users also had other banworthy sets.



That just about covers everything, thank you for reading this and we hope to see more innovative sets from you guys! The amount of new creativity found from just these past 4 days alone is insane, and we cannot wait to see more of these amazing innovations come to life.
Bonus team for reading this all​

 

[Baddy]

is there any reason why stench is still legal? i really don't see what good it brings to the meta, it just lets pokes beat everything through luck. use a fast beat up user like weavile or scarf krook and you can straight up 6-0 from lead with enough luck (and a poor team from them). it's just an uncompetitive ability and if king's rock is banned i don't see why stench should still be legal

 

[Cuddly]

is there any reason why stench is still legal? i really don't see what good it brings to the meta, it just lets pokes beat everything through luck. use a fast beat up user like weavile or scarf krook and you can straight up 6-0 from lead with enough luck (and a poor team from them). it's just an uncompetitive ability and if king's rock is banned i don't see why stench should still be legal

Weavile is banned, and while the idea of using Stench for Sheer Force boosts, it’s still pretty uncompetitive for sure.
It’s more than likely unbanned as many metagames just forget to ban it.

 

[Mathy]

So apparently, Poison Touch (and likely Stench) apply 100% Secondary Effects 30%/10% of the time instead of 30%/10% Secondary Effects 100% of the time, or something.
Since Poison Touch/Stench are supposed to always add to the Secondaries Stack, and Sheer Force always removes the Secondaries Stack and adds a 1.3x Multiplier.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1567663279-7ju5sgt4t0kr24x0vfza3flz8mm0cf5pw
In this replay, Sheer Force only activates 30% of the time despite Nidoking having both Poison Touch + Sheer Force.
Here and here are post about this as well.

This isn't what's going on -- if you can read the code, Poison Touch always adds the secondary, which itself has a 30% chance.

Rather, this is a race condition between Nido's abilities for the "ModifyMove" event. 50% of the time the secondary gets added and then Sheer Force activates; and 50% of the time Sheer Force doesn't activate and the secondary gets added afterwards.

Stench actually has a priority number defined for its handler, so in fact it will always proc after Sheer Force.

 

[Mathy]

Since people were asking about Stench/PoisonTouch/SheerForce, I'll just echo what I said in Bugs. As it's currently implemented:

Poison Touch + Sheer Force activation order is decided by a coin flip, it's like a speed tie.
Sheer Force will always proc before Stench.

 

[Cuddly]

Since people were asking about Stench/PoisonTouch/SheerForce, I'll just echo what I said in Bugs. As it's currently implemented:

Poison Touch + Sheer Force activation order is decided by a coin flip, it's like a speed tie.
Sheer Force will always proc before Stench.

Wow. Well, the prospect of using Stench + Sheer Force is out the window sadly.

 

[Obiora]

The reason that your berry wasn't activating here is because of Ttar's Unnerve.

I didn't actually see any weather-dependent effects in the replay, except at the end when Ninetales' Solar Beam needed to charge, but we expected that anyway. If you're referring to the client-side tracking of Cloud Nine, then yes, that's not going to work, because the base abilities are added after the Pokémon has started being switched in, so it's too late for the Cloud Nine to notice that it's being switched in and needs to announce itself (it doesn't announce itself if you obtain it via e.g. Skill Swap).

Thank you for pointing these out :)
You are right about both and I retested the cloud nine "bug" with solarbeam on drampa and it was 2 turns as it should be.
In conclusion, I have learned that heatran is strong and I should not bug test

 

[PWAO]

I haven‘t actually tried it out with anything yet, but Flower Veil seems like it’d be pretty useful for certain bulky Grass types. I do think Pokémon like Ferrothorn would rather have Flash Fire or Primordial Sea to cover that huge fire weakness, but for others who don’t have to worry about such glaring weaknesses would have some interesting options.

The first Pokémon that comes to mind for me is Cradily. Not being able to get switched out by the opponent combined with an immunity to status conditions and stat drops seems incredibly valuable.

Edit: After some testing, I’ve been finding a lot of success with Flower Veil Cradily on a sand team. It’s actually been phenomenal against Toxapex; I’m not sure if Baneful Bunker would still work since the set I’ve been using is Special, but the immunity to Toxic and the water immunity granted by Storm Drain pretty much shuts Toxapex down. It’s been great.

 

[BandedBodyPress]

I don’t think competitive or rattled works right on lead.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1568244954
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1568246228
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1568246943
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1568249417
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pokebilitiesaaa-1568250008
I didn’t test defiant but I imagine it’s the same. If you have one of those abilities in the slot then they work as normal. But if it’s a natural ability that’s not in the slot, on lead they don’t activate.

 

[Clas]

OK right quick PokeAAA announcement (idk about professionalism this time lol) - Stench is restricted its uncompetitive thats why, tagging Kris to implement ok bye

 

[Discordual]

Also, we've heard your complains about Triage, but we do not feel as if banning it would be healthy for the metagame or even solve any of its issues. We feel that it would rather do the exact opposite. Triage serves as one of the few offensive counters to a lot of the tier's offensive behemoths, including but not limited to Azumarill, Basculin, Heracross, Hydreigon, Kommo-o, and Regieleki.​

Apart from Kommo-o (A common triage abuser itself) and Azumarill, the thing all these pokémon have in common is their frailty, and therefore weakness to priority or faster threats. This is what makes Triage an effective counter, but there are other strong priority options available which aren't used because they are very much outclassed by Triage, which allows you to use stronger, higher priority moves which also heal you.

Additionally, most of the options you've listed there can be offensively checked with a good scarfer above Heracross' speed tier. Obviously you cannot check them all in one moveslot, but you shouldn't be able to anyway! The fact triage users can check almost every offensive threat so easily isn't a good thing, it's a bad one, especially when some of them can SET UP on these offensive threats quite easily, then heal off any damage they took while setting up.

Furthermore, currently legal Triage users must set up in order to become a major threat, allowing defensive or offensive answers alike to come in and force Triage users out.

Current triage abusers pair already quite high attacking stats with an adamant/modest nature, and potentially a life orb (as the recoil doesn't affect them too badly), to become very strong offensive threats in their own right. They become unparalleled revenge killers of any offensive threat not running dazzling or psychic surge, easily able to remain healthy due to their powerful priority moves healing them for significant amounts, and have the option to invest in bulk instead of speed if they want to. Since all of this utility fits into one moveslot, they can then invest in coverage for walls with the other 2/3 moveslots.

The ability to set up serves as a way to strengthen these already strong pokémon to extremely high levels of power, and they often have the ability to do so with relative easy due to scaring out so many pokémon, and/or having a valuable defensive use (e..g Kommo-o bulletproof + soundproof + high defence). Once set up, they can often heal back significant portions of damage, making them difficult to KO without a super-effective STAB move from a faster pokémon who resists the triage move of choice. You say offensive answers, but running an offensive answer is often very difficult to do because, without running dazzling/psychic surge, that's very hard to do. Most offensive pokémon are easy to chip into KO range

When concerning banned Pokemon, however, Triage was only part of the story as Triage was merely an option for these powerful Pokemon, and many of the banned users also had other banworthy sets.

While it's true Buzzwole, Tapu Bulu, Pangoro (to a lesser extent), and Conkeldurr COULD viably run other sets, most of them a) didn't, and b) piggybacked off the threat of the triage set to achieve their goals. If triage wasn't in the picture, Tapu Bulu, Pangoro, and Buzzwole would never have even been considered for ban, and Conkeldurr would just be another strong but slow offensive threat like Azumarill. The ability to run other sets is part of what makes triage itself scary, not the other way around.

 

[Clas]

OK right quick PokeAAA announcement (idk about professionalism this time lol) - Stench is restricted its uncompetitive thats why, tagging Kris to implement ok bye

retagging Kris because i actually am dumb

 

[Ducky]

Hello all, I'm here with an Ultra Mix announcement. The suspect is over, and...

RAICHU, RAICHU-ALOLA, AND SNEASEL HAVE BEEN UNBANNED FROM ULTRA MIX.

List of votes:

Players	DuckeryDoodle	Clasmia	Aggrometaile	Dddddsf	NightHawk4001	The Dragon Master	Final
Raichu	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Raichu-Alola	Restrict	Restrict	Keep Banned	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict
Sneasel	Restrict	Restrict	Restrict	Keep Banned	Keep Banned	Restrict	Restrict

Note

There is still one person who has not voted yet, but it will have no impact of the results of the voting.

Thanks to all who voted.

Tagging CringeMeta to implement!

New Tour Code

/tour new [Gen 8] Mix and Mega, Elimination,,,[Gen 8] Ultra Mix
/tour rules Alphabet Cup Move Legality, Camomons Mod, Scalemons Mod, Tier Shift Mod, !Obtainable Abilities, 2 Ability Clause, AAA Restricted Abilities, -Damp Rock, -Eviolite, -Heat Rock, -Light Ball, -Abra, -Darumaka, -Darumaka-Galar, -Gastly, -Pikachu, -Shedinja, *Chansey, *Raichu, *Raichu-Alola, *Sneasel, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, *Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Comatose ++ Sleep Talk, *Bolt Beak, *Double Iron Bash, *Electrify, *Extreme Speed, *Fishious Rend, *Geomancy, *Lovely Kiss, *Shell Smash, *Shift Gear, *Spore, *Sleep Powder, *Surging Strikes, *Thousand Arrows, +Calyrex-Ice, +Calyrex-Shadow, +Dialga, +Eternatus, +Gengar, +Giratina, +Groudon, +Ho-Oh, +Kyogre, +Kyurem-Black, +Kyurem-White, +Lugia, +Lunala, +Marshadow, +Melmetal, +Mewtwo, +Naganadel, +Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, +Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, +Palkia, +Pheromosa, +Rayquaza, +Regigigas, +Reshiram, +Urshifu, +Urshifu-Rapid-Strike, +Xerneas, +Yveltal, +Zacian, +Zekrom, +Zygarde-Complete
/tour autostart 10
/tour autodq 6
!rfaq Ultra Mix
/wall **SAMPLE TEAMS:** https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-mashup-megathread.3657159/post-9152282

 

[IMPERIUM OF MAN]

How the fuck isn't Talonflame banned, magic guard brave bird with gale wings is busted as hell priority 180 power move how the fuck isn't this banned or on the watch list? All the power yet no drawbacks and it has priority.

 

[Cuddly]

I haven‘t actually tried it out with anything yet, but Flower Veil seems like it’d be pretty useful for certain bulky Grass types. I do think Pokémon like Ferrothorn would rather have Flash Fire or Primordial Sea to cover that huge fire weakness, but for others who don’t have to worry about such glaring weaknesses would have some interesting options.

The first Pokémon that comes to mind for me is Cradily. Not being able to get switched out by the opponent combined with an immunity to status conditions and stat drops seems incredibly valuable.

Edit: After some testing, I’ve been finding a lot of success with Flower Veil Cradily on a sand team. It’s actually been phenomenal against Toxapex; I’m not sure if Baneful Bunker would still work since the set I’ve been using is Special, but the immunity to Toxic and the water immunity granted by Storm Drain pretty much shuts Toxapex down. It’s been great.

What exactly is the practical usecase of Flower Veil over Magic Guard?

 

[Clas]

How the fuck isn't Talonflame banned, magic guard brave bird with gale wings is busted as hell priority 180 power move how the fuck isn't this banned or on the watch list? All the power yet no drawbacks and it has priority.

One, calm.

Two, its lacking in offensive stats and while gale wings does improve it, the lack of longevity harms it so much that it only really gets one proper chance to set up (two if you're lucky). There's no doubt its strong, but the state of the meta right now prevents it from being an issue to good teams past being something that must be considered. Dauntless Shield right now is incredibly strong, Flash Fire / PrimSea is pretty much on every team, and the number of Pokemon that threaten it and don't die to Brave Bird while still being good/viable is high. To add to this weakness, Talonflame cannot freely switch in ever as it risks taking damage, removing Gale Wings until it Roosts. While it is true that it has great offensive capabilities, it's nowhere near the power level that would be needed to make it overpowered.

 

[Cuddly]

How the fuck isn't Talonflame banned, magic guard brave bird with gale wings is busted as hell priority 180 power move how the fuck isn't this banned or on the watch list? All the power yet no drawbacks and it has priority.

You’re about 9 years too late.
The Gale Wings nerf is rough, even with Magic Guard, and this Metagame lets you use several Anti-Priority options, or to flat out use wall it since Talonflame is still weaker than Ponyta.

 

[PWAO]

What exactly is the practical usecase of Flower Veil over Magic Guard?

Flower Veil prevents stat drops.

Admittedly, now that I’ve written it out, it’s significantly less impressive than it seemed this morning. At the same time, though, I’m sure there are some ways it could be utilized.

 

[Cuddly]

Flower Veil prevents stat drops.

Admittedly, now that I’ve written it out, it’s significantly less impressive than it seemed this morning. At the same time, though, I’m sure there are some ways it could be utilized.

My guess would be a set up sweeper, being immune to Intimidate, sticky web, burn, paralysis, and sleep is valuable, although which Grass type to choose isn’t so to answer as Kartana/Zarude are weak to Triage Drain Punch, and Tapu Bulu needs Triage for Horn Leech.