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can drop to A-. Out of all the fire types in A, I think it has the fewest reasons to be picked on common builds right now. Fairy Tera , its most common set, walls it to hell and back, and has a generally better defensive matchup into the current meta. adds a lot more to teams in terms of offensive and defensive utility than right now, other than “big special damage” (more on Arc-H later). Only dropping to A- because I’ll still shit my pants if my team has a bad fish matchup, and it still has its places on more Hyper-Offense teams.
to A+. I believe it’s currently the best Fire Type in the metagame (sorry, ). Every set it has fills important roles on teams—Band, Assault Vest, Sitrus, Goggles, able to swap between offensive support and priority + Rock Slide. No, really, Band Rock Slide is just that good. It makes up a key component of the core, applying Intimidate pressure and allowing for a safe lead into a lot of different compositions. Extremespeed isn’t a bad move, either!
from A+ to A-. She’s failed to keep up with the shifting metagame, and people are learning to adapt to her. She can still do that big damage everyone is scared of. She’s just getting less space to do it, and is still everyone’s worst enemy, including hers. Falling in popularity at the moment. Hope she gets on the up and up again.
can be easily walled by like you mentioned, but it’s walled by so many other things as well that I cant even name them all. , , , + . I could go on… And while it synergizes well with , its basically only usable if there’s a Flutter on the same team, which severely holds it back imo.
I agree on
is just very hard to use since it can’t hold a proper item. Since you probably want to train it offensively, it ends up being very frail. Yes, it puts on a lot of offensive pressure as well. But sometimes it feels like it just gets knocked out if you don’t set it up properly.
can be easily walled by like you mentioned, but it’s walled by so many other things as well that I cant even name them all. , , , + . I could go on… And while it synergizes well with , its basically only usable if there’s a Flutter on the same team, which severely holds it back imo.
I think I hard disagree with this and it's really not showcasing how good/bad Chi-Yu is. Heatran and Harcanine only 'wall' it with Tera, which is in particular hard for Harcanine because it runs a lot less bulk with its most common Band set. Urshifu is also not a big fan of Chi-Yu 's favourite partner in crime, Flutter Mane . Here are a few calcs to really show how much damage Chi-Yu can output. (Note: I will be using the EVs/Sets on Smogon Strategy Dex because we don't have EVs from regional results yet as another basis.)
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 135-159 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine-Hisui: 168-198 (94.9 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Heatran: 67-79 (35.6 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Arcanine-Hisui: 84-99 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Arcanine-Hisui: 150-177 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Generally either deciding not to Tera put themselves in Shadow Ball range, and you must acknowledge that Tera, is a pretty big cost. Now, it goes without saying that these two are great Chi-Yu answers, but they still need a cost and will usually not find themselves in a plain 1v1 situation, this is also excluding unlucky Dark Pulse flinches giving an extra variable and a higher chance for Chi-Yu to win. Now, it does get 2HKOs right, but does it even live a hit from them?
196+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine-Hisui Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 4 Def Chi-Yu: 168-198 (107 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 127-151 (80.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 117-140 (74.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Would you look at that, looks like both usually lose the 1v1 unless they Tera, but if we allow them to, why can't we allow outside factors like Harc being intimidated, or Chi-Yu Terastalising? Chi-Yu is not really that useless into either
Urshifu is a bigger problem, and Chi-Yu can only beat it when both Urshifu prioritises it's partner, or if has some form of speed control. But I'd say every fire type rn has a disadvantageous matchup into Urshifu . At least Chi-Yu partners best with Flutter Mane
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 44 HP / 92 SpD Urshifu-Rapid Strike: 92-108 (50.8 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 44 HP / 92 SpD Tera-Water Urshifu-Rapid Strike: 184-217 (101.6 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
156+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 212 HP / 4 Def Tera-Ghost Chi-Yu on a critical hit: 126-147 (80.2 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't think Armarouge walls Chi-Yu at all? Infact, Chi-Yu is the one who walls it instead unless it's running the rarer Aura Sphere. I Also think +2 Dondozo isn't something ANY neutral offensive threat should be able to break, I think expectations on Chi-Yu are a bit high even if it is the strongest attacker available. I also think the Flutter Mane claim is very exaggerated, people have Day 2'd multiple times without it and Chi-Yu has infact Top 8 Toronto, without Flutter Mane
can drop to A-. Out of all the fire types in A, I think it has the fewest reasons to be picked on common builds right now. Fairy Tera , its most common set, walls it to hell and back, and has a generally better defensive matchup into the current meta. adds a lot more to teams in terms of offensive and defensive utility than right now, other than “big special damage” (more on Arc-H later). Only dropping to A- because I’ll still shit my pants if my team has a bad fish matchup, and it still has its places on more Hyper-Offense teams.
Elaborated on Chi-Yu nad it's checks above. I think while Heatran has the defensive profile, Chi-Yu has one of the best offensive profiles in the entire format. You'd need to be really bulky to live a neutral Dark Pulse let alone two of them, which is hard to do even with a resist as shown with and . Ottoman not the best Fire type right now but I think it's place is really strong as a breaker on balance. Also the mindset one takes to Chi-Yu can explain how crazy it actually is. It applies so much pressure on team preview and when it hits the field, because you know if you give it a turn, it's chunking your side of the board for huge damage if not picking up a ko, and asks you to bring dedicated walls like Tera Fairy Heatran . Might be a bit Harryer to fit than Heatran on teams right now but it's impact on the game warrants a lot of credit and makes up for it to stick in A imo.
to A+. I believe it’s currently the best Fire Type in the metagame (sorry, ). Every set it has fills important roles on teams—Band, Assault Vest, Sitrus, Goggles, able to swap between offensive support and priority + Rock Slide. No, really, Band Rock Slide is just that good. It makes up a key component of the core, applying Intimidate pressure and allowing for a safe lead into a lot of different compositions. Extremespeed isn’t a bad move, either!
Harc is a great pokemon however I don't currently see it. It needs a specific archetype (Tornadus Tailwind or a lot of support on the team. This is because in slower games, It's typing becomes a hindrance and it will be hard to justify it over less Tera reliant pokemon. It also doesn't have a great matchup into common physical attackers despite Intimidate (Iron Hands, , Landorus , Ogerpon-Wellspring and Urshifu are at the top of the rankings right now), making it a big Tera candidate in general. It's definitely great and it's typing lets it check many otherwise scary matchups. I just don't think the pokemon is on the level of pokemon like Urshifu right now, being less splashable, having a lot of fire type competition, and having less of an impact in the game.
can drop to A-. Out of all the fire types in A, I think it has the fewest reasons to be picked on common builds right now. Fairy Tera , its most common set, walls it to hell and back, and has a generally better defensive matchup into the current meta. adds a lot more to teams in terms of offensive and defensive utility than right now, other than “big special damage” (more on Arc-H later). Only dropping to A- because I’ll still shit my pants if my team has a bad fish matchup, and it still has its places on more Hyper-Offense teams.
to A+. I believe it’s currently the best Fire Type in the metagame (sorry, ). Every set it has fills important roles on teams—Band, Assault Vest, Sitrus, Goggles, able to swap between offensive support and priority + Rock Slide. No, really, Band Rock Slide is just that good. It makes up a key component of the core, applying Intimidate pressure and allowing for a safe lead into a lot of different compositions. Extremespeed isn’t a bad move, either!
from A+ to A-. She’s failed to keep up with the shifting metagame, and people are learning to adapt to her. She can still do that big damage everyone is scared of. She’s just getting less space to do it, and is still everyone’s worst enemy, including hers. Falling in popularity at the moment. Hope she gets on the up and up again.
I think I hard disagree with this and it's really not showcasing how good/bad Chi-Yu is. Heatran and Harcanine only 'wall' it with Tera, which is in particular hard for Harcanine because it runs a lot less bulk with its most common Band set. Urshifu is also not a big fan of Chi-Yu 's favourite partner in crime, Flutter Mane . Here are a few calcs to really show how much damage Chi-Yu can output. (Note: I will be using the EVs/Sets on Smogon Strategy Dex because we don't have EVs from regional results yet as another basis.)
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 172 HP / 4 SpD Heatran: 135-159 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine-Hisui: 168-198 (94.9 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine-Hisui: 168-198 (94.9 - 111.8%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Arcanine-Hisui: 84-99 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 78.9% chance to 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Heat Wave vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Tera-Fairy Arcanine-Hisui: 150-177 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Generally either deciding not to Tera put themselves in Shadow Ball range, and you must acknowledge that Tera, is a pretty big cost. Now, it goes without saying that these two are great Chi-Yu answers, but they still need a cost and will usually not find themselves in a plain 1v1 situation, this is also excluding unlucky Dark Pulse flinches giving an extra variable and a higher chance for Chi-Yu to win. Now, it does get 2HKOs right, but does it even live a hit from them?
196+ Atk Choice Band Arcanine-Hisui Rock Slide vs. 212 HP / 4 Def Chi-Yu: 168-198 (107 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 127-151 (80.8 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
156+ SpA Life Orb Heatran Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 4 SpD Chi-Yu: 117-140 (74.5 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Would you look at that, looks like both usually lose the 1v1 unless they Tera, but if we allow them to, why can't we allow outside factors like Harc being intimidated, or Chi-Yu Terastalising? Chi-Yu is not really that useless into either
Urshifu is a bigger problem, and Chi-Yu can only beat it when both Urshifu :Urshifu-Rqpid-Strike: prioritises it's partner, or if has some form of speed control. But I'd say every fire type rn has a disadvantageous matchup into Urshifu . At least Chi-Yu partners best with Flutter Mane
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 44 HP / 92 SpD Urshifu-Rapid Strike: 92-108 (50.8 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
124+ SpA Choice Specs Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 44 HP / 92 SpD Tera-Water Urshifu-Rapid Strike: 184-217 (101.6 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
156+ Atk Urshifu-Rapid Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 212 HP / 4 Def Tera-Ghost Chi-Yu on a critical hit: 126-147 (80.2 - 93.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't think Armarouge walls Chi-Yu at all? Infact, Chi-Yu is the one who walls it instead unless it's running the rarer Aura Sphere. I Also think +2 Dondozo isn't something ANY neutral offensive threat should be able to break, I think expectations on Chi-Yu are a bit high even if it is the strongest attacker available. I also think the Flutter Mane claim is very exaggerated, people have Day 2'd multiple times without it and Chi-Yu has infact Top 8 Toronto, without Flutter Mane
Elaborated on Chi-Yu nad it's checks above. I think while Heatran has the defensive profile, Chi-Yu has one of the best offensive profiles in the entire format. You'd need to be really bulky to live a neutral Dark Pulse let alone two of them, which is hard to do even with a resist as shown with and . Ottoman not the best Fire type right now but I think it's place is really strong as a breaker on balance. Also the mindset one takes to Chi-Yu can explain how crazy it actually is. It applies so much pressure on team preview and when it hits the field, because you know if you give it a turn, it's chunking your side of the board for huge damage if not picking up a ko, and asks you to bring dedicated walls like Tera Fairy Heatran . Might be a bit Harryer to fit than Heatran on teams right now but it's impact on the game warrants a lot of credit and makes up for it to stick in A imo.
Harc is a great pokemon however I don't currently see it. It needs a specific archetype (Tornadus Tailwind or a lot of support on the team. This is because in slower games, It's typing becomes a hindrance and it will be hard to justify it over less Tera reliant pokemon. It also doesn't have a great matchup into common physical attackers despite Intimidate (Iron Hands, , Landorus , Ogerpon-Wellspring and Urshifu are at the top of the rankings right now), making it a big Tera candidate in general. It's definitely great and it's typing lets it check many otherwise scary matchups. I just don't think the pokemon is on the level of pokemon like Urshifu right now, being less splashable, having a lot of fire type competition, and having less of an impact in the game.
Those are all Dark Pulse calcs, you’re basically never clicking Dark Pulse unless you’re in bad matchups. Which is why I mentioned all of those mons that wall Chi-Yu. You would much rather lock into Overheat or Heat Wave on Specs sets and Dark Pulse is basically only there for dark stab. I have used Chi-Yu twice, and from what I recall. I’ve only clicked Dark Pulse once.
Those are all Dark Pulse calcs, you’re basically never clicking Dark Pulse unless you’re in bad matchups. Which is why I mentioned all of those mons that wall Chi-Yu. You would much rather lock into Overheat or Heat Wave on Specs sets and Dark Pulse is basically only there for dark stab. I have used Chi-Yu twice, and from what I recall. I’ve only clicked Dark Pulse once.
Well I have used Chi-Yu a lot, on 60% of my Reg D and 40% of my Reg E teams for example, and I'd say this isn't the case. Dark Pulse is fine as it's strong single target stab that hits a lot of the format for neutral. Locking into Heat Wave would be nice but I don't think you can justify these pokemon as 'walls' simply because they don't let Chi-Yu click Heat Wave. Let's say Harcanine made Chi-Yu lock into an unfavourable move, this is in exchange of either dying, or burning a Tera and taking 50%. Heatran is the same thing, take a huge chunk from Dark Pulse or burn your Tera, all just so Chi-Yu isn't locked into Heat Wave. Is this really what can be called a worthwhile trade? If so, that just shows how scary Chi-Yu is, it's Fire type moves are so threatening that you're willing to sacrifice a pokemon (you mentioned Armarouge ) just so it is locked into Dark Pulse, which mind you we just saw chunk above average bulk neutrals for a ko, it's not suddenly a bad pokemon because it isn't locked into Fire stab.
I think gholdengo should go from B+ to A-. Firstly, ghost steel is excellent typing, good as ghold is an excellent ability (no taunt, encore, spore etc). and make it rain is an amazing move (120bp wow). Its bulky enough to take a enough non-super effective hits to get up a nasty plot (or two with leftovers and perhaps even grassy terrain recovery). Although there are some mons that are good into it (think fire types, lando-t and even iron hands), only flutter mane and chien pao have stab supereffective moves into both gholdengo and it's preferred tera dragon, with the former severely limited by either its use of choice specs, or more importantly mainly fact that make it rain one shots flutter mane. Given gholdengo is frequently used on tailwind compositions, it can also out speed flutter mane (which it is often on alongside urshifu rapid strike, given how urshifu matches well into its poorer matchups). Assuming you are unwilling to play a 50/50 game with "does dengo tera or not", what you may want to do bait out a tera and then look to KO dengo from there, however this is tricky given how gholdengo can punish passive play such as switches and protects with setting up nasty plots, which isnt ideal. It is for these reasons that I think gholdengo should be pushed from B+ to A-, as it it always a tricky pokemon to deal with (even more so if piloted by a good player on a good team).
Back for more suggestions because I can't keep stuff to myself !
Amoonguss from A -> A+.
Amoonguss is still an incredibly strong pokemon right now. It exists as one of the best answers into Iron Hands and Urshifu with rage powder alone, and applies so much pressure with spore even if it isn't exactly doing damage. It is the best Grass type rn imo. Amoonguss showcased how well it performs its job at both Senior and Master finals at LAIC being very hard to break and being an amazing glue pokemon, being able to strengthen a team into offensive archetypes like Tailwind or Trick Room. main appeal to Amoonguss however, is how it benefits pretty much every team it works on. Tailwind Hyper Offence likes it, Balance adores it, Trick Room enjoys it, Bulky Offence appreciates it, Veil doesn't hate it, etc. Amoonguss has an incredible toolkit and it's splashibility is insane, I can't see this pokemon any lower.
Ogerpon Wellspring from A+ -> A.
Urshifu 's resurgence is actually bad for it as teams want to avoid using both on the same team, represented by the pair not showing up at all at LAIC. Balance teams will generally prefer over it because of how impactful spore and regenerator can be, while Tornadus teams seem to abuse + Amoonguss / Rillaboom . just struggles to find as much of a place on teams. Don't get me wrong, it's still a great pokemon, with a relatively positive meta matchup, but outclassed often by the pokemon that it's in the same tier as which is off imo.
Urshifu from B+ -> A-.
Surprised this was so low actually, Urshifu 's unseen fist is incredibly rewarding and it has found its place on certain compositors. Seems to be a great asset for balance in particular, especially when using another water type like Ogerpon Wellspring or Iron Bundle . Not much in the meta actually likes switching in on Wicked Blow, and this means it can be positioned as a reliable win-con. These teams are common enough for Urshifu to see more usage than Iron Bundle or at LAIC to further prove the point.
Kingambit from A -> A-/B+.
Urshifu getting better by default hinders the pokemon, Rapid Strike having an incredible matchup, and Single Strike bringing competition, the two also don't care about intimidate, challenging Kingambit 's biggest tool. Gholdengo and Roaring Moon are also more common pokemon that compete with Kingambit on the majority of teams. Less reasons to use the pokemon when competition exists, especially when its meta matchup isn't great itself right now. You need to burn a Tera to OHKO the current intimidators and Harcanine 's most common Fairy Tera ruins you.
Cresselia from A- -> B+ and Farigiraf from B+ -> A-.
Swapping the setters, has consistently been the dominant TR setter for a reason. With the increase in Amoonguss answers and options, Lunar Blessing isn't as huge as something like Armor Tail, which answers the popular Grassy Glide Rillaboom and makes certain matchups significantly easier by restricting fake out and Chien-Pao . Even the sweepers like Ursaluna had more success in LAIC, sweepers can function fine without Cresselia but Cresselia struggles without them. Slow paced Trick room teams have also been in general pretty bad this format. With how offensive it is, Offensive Semi-Room or Tailroom comps which appreciate Farigiraf more, are more dominant right now, and the scarce options of hard TR seem to find Indeedee more appealing right now.
Indeedee from B -> B+.
Indeedee can function well without Armarouge , it provides anti priority like Farigiraf but also brings terrain control and redirection which is appreciated even on non Trick room teams (look at Thiago's team for one). Armarouge has actually had multiple results and is successful enough for me not to move it down, however it has far less usage than Indeedee at events, suggesting that it can work on other compositions and deserves the higher tier.
Gyarados, Volcarona, , and Gastrodon from B -> C+/C.
These all lack a lot of results and require excessive justification, aren't really comparable to the other pokemon in the tier. Either have a horrible meta matchup, far too much competition, or even both, to stick where they are. Gyarados is an incredibly passive intimidator that struggles to justify itself on teams, Landorus becoming the balance staple due to it's better matchup into Grassspam and the more offensive meta as a whole. Volcarona competes with many fire types for a team slot and only works on one archetype. It will need excessive support to function and can still be underwhelming due to the physical dominating meta. Neither can exactly compare to Kommo-o or Ogerpon . Gastrodon has a horrible matchup into the common Grass types, which are dominating the meta (33/34 Teams has a Grass type at LAIC Day 2, Though notably only 2/3 teams had an offensive grass type, which is still ridiculous) It is unable to safely switch in on the most prevalent water types (Ogerpon Wellspring , Iron Bundle ) other than Urshifu , who has a most common partner in Rillaboom anyway. It can escape this through Tera however Gastrodon simply has a poor matchup into the top teams and is pressured way too much to justify bringing it. Not to mention Ogerpon Wellspring , performs a similar role with a significantly better meta matchup, rewarding you with offensive pressure and superb utility itself, which is esecially valuable in how offensive this meta is. Making it hard to consider Gastrodon in the teambuilder as well. Does not belong that high at all imo.
Thundurus from B- -> C.
Literally never see this pokemon, the meta is incredibly unkind to it and it doesn't bring a lot of value to teams right now. You have more reasons to use something like Landorus or Grimmsnarl looking at the tier. Out of the Day 2 LAIC teams, a SINGLE team had 0 Twave immunities, and one of them even had FIVE (9 teams had 1, 14 teams had 2, 9 teams had 3 immunities if curious). Thundurus answers are incredibly splashable and even if you jusfied this pokemon in the builder, a lot of the time Thundurus will look useless in matchups.
Basculegion from B- -> C.
Also don't see this pokemon at all, not a standard pick on Pelipper rain teams which are already rare, and is pretty much impossible to justify on other teams when you have options like Urshifu and Ogerpon Wellspring . Still has niches but not enough to be ranked that high imo. Only notable results are 6-3 at Sacramento and Toronto but this is when paired with Arcanine or , B- is far too high for the pokemon with its showings right now.
I also want to touch on a few takes I've mentioned before
Ogerpon Hearthflame from A+ -> A-.
I Elaborated on how it is a one dimensional nuke and doesn't provide much else to a team, which may be an argument for it in A. But I failed to acknowledge how fierce competition is, , the many Fire types, and even the stacked Grass types available. Less and less reasons to use this pokemon when you can justify Harcanine better on Tailwind comps and Heatran on balance comps. It's versatility also still hurts it, it can't do something completely unique when locked into its nuke purpose.
Gholdengo from B+ -> A.
This pokemon is actually incredible, Flutter Mane might be a pokemon of all time to compete with, but that might really be the only form of competition for it, not to mention the two can function well together, highlighted in a variety of teams the past few events. There are enough compositions where Gholdengo is preferable. This is due to it being the single best set up pokemon in the format, having a spore immunity coupled with one of the best typings at that, and don't get me started on make it rain, a 120 BP STAB spread move is ridiculous for it. This let's it function different to Flutter Mane and why it has seen even more usage then Rillaboom this event.
Salamence from UR -> B-
I've significantly overlooked its qualities, the positive matchup into Urshifu is so valuable to the point this has consistently day 2'd events. Can function as excellent speed control, a Rillaboom and Ogerpon (all forms bar Cornerstone) check, bring excellent utility through intimidate, without losing the superb matchup into Urshifu Has proven to be effective even outside of rain with results, picking up a defensive Rocky Helmet set perfect for it.
To end it off, here is my personal (ordered) viability ranking in an attempt to spark discussion. (Very cool idea so stealing, happy to answer any questions)
from B to A-
I don't understand why people don't like Kommo so much. Its premier way of setting up is by using Clangorous Soul, which boosts all stats in exchange for 33% of its max health. This doesn't really matter, since we're in a metagame where Hospitality exists. This thing can just sweep teams, especially when it holds the Throat Spray or Clear Amulet. It can be physical or special(though special is kinda superior in my opinion), it gains way better survivability at +1 Defense and Special Defence, allowing it to take on the fearsome pokemon that dominate Regulation E.
Things that Kommo-o can check: Flutter Mane
It cannot survive a +1 Max SpA Flash Cannon, and is walled by +1 Tera Steel Kommo-o with Bulletproof. The Ogerpons
Kommo-o resists all of the Ogerpons' STABS, and unless they run Play Rough, they can barely touch Kommo-o and become setup fodder. Urshifu-Rapid Strike
Kommo-o resists Surging Strikes, and can OHKO the typical Urshifu-R with a +1 Clanging Scales Chien Pao
Kommo-o naturally resists Chien-Pao's dark STAB, and when Terastalized, it can survive an Ice Spinner from Chien-Pao, along with threatening a KO with either Aura Sphere or Drain Punch.
Obviously Kommo-o can struggle against correct predictions, but it still is a threat to be remembered to bring it to at least high B tier, if not A tier.
from B to A-
I don't understand why people don't like Kommo so much. Its premier way of setting up is by using Clangorous Soul, which boosts all stats in exchange for 33% of its max health. This doesn't really matter, since we're in a metagame where Hospitality exists. This thing can just sweep teams, especially when it holds the Throat Spray or Clear Amulet. It can be physical or special(though special is kinda superior in my opinion), it gains way better survivability at +1 Defense and Special Defence, allowing it to take on the fearsome pokemon that dominate Regulation E.
Things that Kommo-o can check: Flutter Mane
It cannot survive a +1 Max SpA Flash Cannon, and is walled by +1 Tera Steel Kommo-o with Bulletproof. The Ogerpons
Kommo-o resists all of the Ogerpons' STABS, and unless they run Play Rough, they can barely touch Kommo-o and become setup fodder. Urshifu-Rapid Strike
Kommo-o resists Surging Strikes, and can OHKO the typical Urshifu-R with a +1 Clanging Scales Chien Pao
Kommo-o naturally resists Chien-Pao's dark STAB, and when Terastalized, it can survive an Ice Spinner from Chien-Pao, along with threatening a KO with either Aura Sphere or Drain Punch.
Obviously Kommo-o can struggle against correct predictions, but it still is a threat to be remembered to bring it to at least high B tier, if not A tier.
I think is like, B tier at best, maybe C+. Its too reliant on tera, it takes so many resources for very mediocre pay out, its super predictable, its weak to half of the meta, dragon and the body press set is very lukewarm damage and overall its just mid
+2 252 SpA Kommo-o Flash Cannon vs. 28 HP / 4 SpD Flutter Mane: 118-140 (88 - 104.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
This is +2 and it isen't even a guaranteed OHKO. And its 0 investment flutter.
I can dive into the specific match ups but overall the main problem with is that its damage is very lukewarm and it not worth the investment. To get the clanging scales up safely you need some form of disruption. Fake out and follow me are very common, and usually you need another form of sustain to keep it alive, weather that be grassy terrain, friend guard, follow me, hospitality etc. Your commiting a ton of resources to get the ball rolling on the and to offset the health lost from clanging. Your putting all your eggs in the basket for a 80-90 bp dragon spread move (After the spread) and +1 in all stats. You know what doesen't care about +1?
132 SpA Flutter Mane Moonblast vs. +1 28 HP / 4 SpD Kommo-o: 204-240 (132.4 - 155.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Well what if you tera
252+ Atk Mystic Water Tera-Water Urshifu-Rapid Strike Surging Strikes (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tera-Steel Kommo-o in Rain on a critical hit: 180-216 (98.9 - 118.6%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
Obviously you aren't going to be taking that on a normal occasion but even still your 2HKO'ing at a minimum and clanging scales does like 70% at best.
156+ Atk Iron Hands Drain Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Tera-Steel Kommo-o: 66-78 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Drain punch is also a 3HKO
Of course you have but gets taunted, murdered by , , and many other meta threats
You know what also resists , , and isen't weak to ? And that also resists all the Ogers after tera and has a stab dragon move? This guy
I really dont see why you would ever run . Of course dozogiri isen't the same but the gist applies, its outclassed by everything and doesen't contribute much for everything you put into it
updates:
my opinion on the metagame honestly hasn't changed that much. and are broken again, Fake Out is good, yada yada.
My hot take prediction is that Trick Room is coming back with a vengeance, and it's gonna be soon. and are in prime positions to safely set up Trick Room with a Fake Out setter thanks to most Tornadus no longer running Covert Cloak. in particular is, in my opinion, going to move up to A once people figure it out once again. Semi-room teams with are well positioned, especially with having a positive matchup into Water . Excited to see the results from San Antonio!
thanks my GOAT, means a lot
My hot take prediction is that Trick Room is coming back with a vengeance, and it's gonna be soon. and are in prime positions to safely set up Trick Room with a Fake Out setter thanks to most Tornadus no longer running Covert Cloak. in particular is, in my opinion, going to move up to A once people figure it out once again. Semi-room teams with are well positioned, especially with having a positive matchup into Water . Excited to see the results from San Antonio!
I do think TR is a lot better than people think, especially Tailroom. The ability to threaten both a & / and a & lead is very very strong (Or whatever Tailwind / Trick room sweepers you have). I can go for the tailwind option game 1, and then the second game go for the trick room to often claim an easy set, as most people just dont even consider the trick room mode until its too late.
My problem with hard TR with and is that its true that there are a lot more that dont run covert, most teams have a fake out user or another tr counter. You can stall out the first turn then prevent the trick room going up next turn. Most teams even have 2 mons that can just blast the , I mean have you seen the damage of specs steel beam?
I do like and theoretically it has a great meta MU, it not getting poltergeist is pretty bad and most teams have at least one way of killing it first, even though its very fast. You need to run TW so its fast, but then you dont have the and are missing damage, you kinda need a bit of everything to succeed. I think it can be done, but its a bit eh for me.
These are the official Viability Rankings for VGC 2024 Regulation E. In this thread, we as a community will be ranking each and every usable pokemon into different tiers based on how viable we believe them to be. We encourage you to post your thoughts and opinions on on the various usable Pokemon in VGC and what tier you think they should belong in. Posts in this thread will be taken into consideration when deciding changes to the VR.
The general idea of this is to rank every usable Pokemon in VGC into different rankings that will go in descending order. Since we are evaluating the entirety of the metagame, we will not be splitting Pokemon based on their roles within teams - supportive and offensive Pokemon will be ranked based on their impact that they have on the meta and the teams they will be brought for.
Finally, there will be a Council of experienced players who will discuss and vote on the ranking of each Pokemon. As the Series tend to be fairly short, we will be attempting to keep this up-to-date based on what's going on in the tournament scene and adapting our list based on both tournament results and ladder success as the metagame evolves. Keep in mind, your posts and insights are still very valuable to us and will be a factor in any changes that we make. This thread would be nothing without the community and all of your input, so if you feel you have a good grasp on the metagame and fully understand the forum rules, then don't be hesitant to post.
You know I actually for once agree with most of this, at least the higher tiers (Assuming un-ordered). I have 2 changes that I think should be made which I will talk about but most things I have to say are pretty minor, like why is a whole tier lower than . I get is better but not a whole tier better, and maybe I could argue moving down but its fine where it is. I think my qualms are and
First . Look at the mons its put into with, , , , etc. All of these mons either A. define certain archetypes that are fairly popular and have seen success (Such as & or the infamous Chien-Nite), or B. have niches that they fill very well (Like blocking priority and trick room, enabling HO teams and countering intimidate strategies and being a very hard mon to get rid off once set up).
How does fit here?
It's nieche is being a fast hard hitting ground type spammer with pretty good coverage. outshines it in the damage department, with extremely high BP single target damage with Headlong, and very respectable damage with EQ. It also has the massive benefit of not relying on the 80% accurate spread move. Then there is the big dog . It outshines in so many ways, I dont feel like listing them all but it does comparable damage with its ground moves, has a better ability, stat spread and movepool and is just in general a better mon. is pretty much forced to run a defensive tera so it can actually try to sweep teams which means it loses out on flying coverage, and while sludge bomb is nice its still pretty painful.
I do really like , I have seen some teams do well with it and some friends have tried it but simply it doesen't have the same reason to use it with the other mons in B+ tier, or even B tier. Its outclassed by and , its main move is 80% accurate and being a special attacker isen't really enough to justify it over the other options. Its forced to tera basically every game if your playing it as a sweeper, it requires tons of support and it just doesen't have the same nieche and utility as the other mons in its tier.
I have less to say on , I just think it also doesen't fit with the rest of the mons on its tier. Its seen more success than a lot of the mons its paired with, it has great synergy with a lot of common mons in the meta and it has tons of game impact with neutralising gas. It completely invalidates or at least has a positive mu into tons of strategies like Dozogiri, Psyspam, Torn Shifu and more. It turns the game upside down and has way more game and meta impact than the other mons on its tier. I argue it could easily move up to B, even B+ tier.
I think I have some other thoughts but thats what sprung to mind first
You know I actually for once agree with most of this, at least the higher tiers (Assuming un-ordered). I have 2 changes that I think should be made which I will talk about but most things I have to say are pretty minor, like why is a whole tier lower than . I get is better but not a whole tier better, and maybe I could argue moving down but its fine where it is. I think my qualms are and
First . Look at the mons its put into with, , , , etc. All of these mons either A. define certain archetypes that are fairly popular and have seen success (Such as & or the infamous Chien-Nite), or B. have niches that they fill very well (Like blocking priority and trick room, enabling HO teams and countering intimidate strategies and being a very hard mon to get rid off once set up).
How does fit here?
It's nieche is being a fast hard hitting ground type spammer with pretty good coverage. outshines it in the damage department, with extremely high BP single target damage with Headlong, and very respectable damage with EQ. It also has the massive benefit of not relying on the 80% accurate spread move. Then there is the big dog . It outshines in so many ways, I dont feel like listing them all but it does comparable damage with its ground moves, has a better ability, stat spread and movepool and is just in general a better mon. is pretty much forced to run a defensive tera so it can actually try to sweep teams which means it loses out on flying coverage, and while sludge bomb is nice its still pretty painful.
I do really like , I have seen some teams do well with it and some friends have tried it but simply it doesen't have the same reason to use it with the other mons in B+ tier, or even B tier. Its outclassed by and , its main move is 80% accurate and being a special attacker isen't really enough to justify it over the other options. Its forced to tera basically every game if your playing it as a sweeper, it requires tons of support and it just doesen't have the same nieche and utility as the other mons in its tier.
I have less to say on , I just think it also doesen't fit with the rest of the mons on its tier. Its seen more success than a lot of the mons its paired with, it has great synergy with a lot of common mons in the meta and it has tons of game impact with neutralising gas. It completely invalidates or at least has a positive mu into tons of strategies like Dozogiri, Psyspam, Torn Shifu and more. It turns the game upside down and has way more game and meta impact than the other mons on its tier. I argue it could easily move up to B, even B+ tier.
I think I have some other thoughts but thats what sprung to mind first
- While Tatsugiri is unusable without Dondozo, Solo Dozo has a lot of tools, its a common sight on Rilla + Heatran comps, being ridiciously bulky especially in Grassy Terrain, having Yawn to pair with Magma Storm, its immune to Intimidate and Wave Crash is a very strong STAB, still giving it a lot of offensive pressure and it is immune to Taunt which is a pretty big deal with all the Tornadus running around. It has more than a niche without Tatsu so a gap is pretty deserved imo.
I think your analysis on this mon is inaccurate in so many ways, no it is not outclassed by Lando-T lol, Lando-T's damage output is not remotely on the same level and no it is not outclassed by Ursaluna either, because Lando-I is a Balance / Tailwind mon and not a Trick Room mon? TeraPoison is also not a defensive tera, it gives you STAB on a Sheer Force boosted move making it stronger than Tera Blast. It also is less forced to tera than Lando-T i have no idea what your point there is. There is a reason Lando-I has been getting a bunch of results recently: #1 November cart ladder, T8 Gdansk, T16 Lille, Day 2 LAIC and its still picking up and had pretty low usage when getting those results. It offers a ton of pressure into balance cores that try to stall its composition's Tailwind or works on balance itsself to break through in the mirrors.
Where are the results that would even close to justify putting it higher, its a very matchup fishy niche pick that often still performs mediocrely in its theoratically good matchups. B- is a fine place for it and pretty kind honestly
Gm everyone! Here to break my fingers ranting into the void at 1 in the morning again! Though I have to say, I agree with a lot of the vr and had to nitpick a few lower placements
Urshifu from S -> A+.
Pokemon is restricted by what it can fit on a lot of the time. Urshifu relies on speed control to make up for its less than ideal speed tier, this is why you'll generally see it with Tornadus or a Choice Scarf. The main issue of Urshifu outside of Tornadus teams is that it has strong competition as a Scarfer, and a water type. Landorus and Wellspring provide much more defensive utility for the slower paced teams and are less reliant on said speed control. In Gdansk, 4 Urshifu teams didn't use Tornadus , and three of those relied on Tailwind Roaring Moon . Same thing happened in LAIC, 3/4 of the Urshifu not paired with Tornadus , relied on Roaring Moon . Goes without saying that the two odd ones out utilised Scarf and redirection
Urshifu demands some extent of support and has forms of competition, it's usage may look dominant but it's flaws are further shown by how it has less Day 2 consistency than the other 2 S-tiers, starting from its rise in Lille, it had 75 in comparison to Iron Hands ' 79 and Flutter Mane 's 80. Even when we start from Toronto, where Urshifu snagged first place, it has 57 results in comparison to Iron Hands ' 60 and Flutter Mane 's 59. Imo Urshifu just doesn't qualify for S tier even with his ridiculously broken it can get
Ursaluna from B -> B+.
Ursaluna has been a reliable trick room sweeper and I believe its qualities mentioned earlier in the format still apply (ridiculous power, spore immunity, nigh impossible to trade let alone stop it without losing anything). I think it's results best explain its placement though, has found a place on Cresselia Semi-Room and Indeedee Psyspam and why it seems to have more results than almost every trick room setter. Flexible in where it can fit and has a positive meta mu, your best bets into it being Rillaboom and the intimidators who drop and don't get a free switch. It also in general benefits from the meta being more offensive, to the point that the average team will only have 3 protects.
Ninetales from B -> B+.
Not much to say here, the Veil teams it defines are still consistent right now as not much has changed. Great speed tier and toolkit which allows it to be great support, and has a relatively positive matchup into common Veil answers such as Urshifu , especially when paired with Rillaboom and Wellspring . has as many results as Dragonite this Regulation and both have kept a relative pace. It had a poor event in Gdansk where it didn't receive any results but neither did Cresselia , and Tatsugiri didn't get one at LAIC either.
Cornerstone from B- -> B.
Cornerstone really has no place being below Ogerpon . The latter is niche and many pokemon can replicate its job, requiring support built around it simply to justify using it. Cornerstone on the other hand, has established itself as a great pokemon on semi-room comps for sturdy follow me, guaranteeing trick room on occasions and usually dropping for a sweeper to enter. Cornerstone is also a threatening offensive Pokemon, having an accurate 120 BP rock type move, which is especially insane in this meta as it is notably rock weak. Has a few results to back it up and there's really not much else to say, which is why I don't intend on ranking it any higher
Gastrodon from B- -> C.
Just not a good pokemon right now, isn't actually a reliable answer to most of the good ones right now, being afraid of Iron Bundle and Wellspring , while also being threatened with a 2HKO from Urshifu . Gastrodon is also a very passive pokemon, so it doesn't want to be burning Tera to check the water types it's supposed to check. This is ignoring how Rillaboom is a superb partner for all of them and how Wellspring almost completely outclasses it in its role due to the better meta matchup and offensive pressure. I mean, the pokemon has 2 Day 2 results (I'm pretty sure I'm right this time) throughout all of this Regulation and just can not be justified over unique pokemon with 5+ results.
Regieleki from C+ -> C.
Nothing has actually changed in its favour, it even being on the vr implies that you can build a successful team with it, and I don't think Thiago's result changes much here.
Empoleon from C -> UR.
Next to no reason to use this pokemon, poor meta matchup solely because it takes too much damage from a bunch of things but can't hit them back with its pathetic SpA stat. Best use case for Empoleon is not bringing it to a battle and just telling your opponent on preview that they shouldn't bring Intimidate (Which does not actually work because both main intimidators have a chance to ohko it outright, and guarantee with any form of chip or Chien-Pao on the field). Feels outclassed by Milotic in its role and that pokemon is already not very good, only reason it isn't UR is because Yawn is a nice tool. Gastrodon who I just badmouthed, uses it better too. By the way, has this thing had any form of success so far?
Again, Leo. You have some…. Interesting opinions. Though I agree with , , and . Putting Urshifu Rapid in A+ instead of S tier is just ridiculous. should absolutely be S tier. Sure, it pairs with most of the time, but it doesn’t always need Tailwind(Speaking from experience here) It only really needs a Choice Scarf(Mystic Water really isn’t found much except on Tailwind teams) to work. I didn’t even click Tailwind on my in the Swiss tour and picked up a bunch of KO’s with Urshifu Rapid anyways. That’s how strong of a Pokemon it is. Plus, how is hitting through protect not S tier level?
Also, why use as a physical TR sweeper when you can use ? Sure, its damage output is far, far worse. But its bulk is the best we have in the meta right now. Or you know, you can use a special sweeper, like Bloodmoon or Armarouge.
Again, Leo. You have some…. Interesting opinions. Though I agree with , , and . Putting Urshifu Rapid in A+ instead of S tier is just ridiculous. should absolutely be S tier. Sure, it pairs with most of the time, but it doesn’t always need Tailwind(Speaking from experience here) It only really needs a Choice Scarf to work. I didn’t even click Tailwind on my in the Swiss tour and picked up a bunch of KO’s with Urshifu Rapid anyways. That’s how strong of a Pokemon it is. Plus, how is hitting through protect not S tier level?
You say all it requires is a Choice Scarf, but only 2 out of the 30+ Urshifu teams from the recent regionals didn't use Tailwind, my main gripe with it is that Urshifu needs excessive speed control, aka, support, to function as good as it wants to. While also facing significant competition on those teams by excellent pokemon in their own right. Ask yourself why almost 95% of Urshifu teams are Tailwind? It kind of needs the support unlike Flutter Mane or Iron Hands who fit on a variety of competitions without the need for support. It depends on how loose you are with S tier but I think only the select few independent pokemon you can slap on almost every team and see success belong there. I still think it's the 3rd best pokemon but not competition with the other two imo.
Also, why use as a physical TR sweeper when you can use ? Sure, its damage output is far, far worse. But its bulk is the best we have in the meta right now. Or you know, you can use a special sweeper, like Bloodmoon or Armarouge.
Ursaluna 's power is very relevant, a lot of Trick room competitions aim to abuse the 4 turn timer to win and in here, the power Ursaluna provides is far more beneficial. It's also much harder to wall, as Landorus and Amoonguss can't switch in, really what are you using to deal with it? Also the spore immunity on a trick room sweeper is incredibly important, you are on a timer to do damage under tr and Amoonguss interrupts that. Iron Hands was never really a sweeper and moreso a bulky mon that can function outside of trick room and help set it up safely for the sweepers. The very first post I sent here explained my thoughts on why Ursaluna is superior to Bloodmoon , and it seems that the pokemon has more Day 2 results too. Armarouge teams have adapted Ursaluna onto their teams to pressure Heatran, you'll notice on ladder and scrolling victory road that ArmaDD seems to equip Ursaluna relatively often.
Notably just my opinion though, sorry if I seemed aggressive at all.
Again, Leo. You have some…. Interesting opinions. Though I agree with , , and . Putting Urshifu Rapid in A+ instead of S tier is just ridiculous. should absolutely be S tier. Sure, it pairs with most of the time, but it doesn’t always need Tailwind(Speaking from experience here) It only really needs a Choice Scarf(Mystic Water really isn’t found much except on Tailwind teams) to work. I didn’t even click Tailwind on my in the Swiss tour and picked up a bunch of KO’s with Urshifu Rapid anyways. That’s how strong of a Pokemon it is. Plus, how is hitting through protect not S tier level?
Also, why use as a physical TR sweeper when you can use ? Sure, its damage output is far, far worse. But its bulk is the best we have in the meta right now. Or you know, you can use a special sweeper, like Bloodmoon or Armarouge.
I voted both Urshifu-R A+ and Ursaluna B+ but i am especially vocal on my Urshifu take so ig ill summarize that one in a post real quick
Alright sure, Urshifu is one of the single most frustrating Pokemon to play against this format. But i think its really more restricting than anything, TornShifu does just force specific counterplay that stops otherwise cool concepts from working. All the current good teams feel super equipped for it though, either just having Hands and Amoonguss to outbulk it and stall Tailwind or having its own Tailwind to abuse Urshifu's awkward speed tier to the point where it feels like leading TornShifu is just a mu / player check. I really dont think its that hard to beat TornShifu consistently at this point in the meta and feel like its still a very strong archetype but significantly overhyped / overused.
Gm everyone! Here to break my fingers ranting into the void at 1 in the morning again! Though I have to say, I agree with a lot of the vr and had to nitpick a few lower placements
Urshifu from S -> A+.
Pokemon is restricted by what it can fit on a lot of the time. Urshifu relies on speed control to make up for its less than ideal speed tier, this is why you'll generally see it with Tornadus or a Choice Scarf. The main issue of Urshifu outside of Tornadus teams is that it has strong competition as a Scarfer, and a water type. Landorus and Wellspring provide much more defensive utility for the slower paced teams and are less reliant on said speed control. In Gdansk, 4 Urshifu teams didn't use Tornadus , and three of those relied on Tailwind Roaring Moon . Same thing happened in LAIC, 3/4 of the Urshifu not paired with Tornadus , relied on Roaring Moon . Goes without saying that the two odd ones out utilised Scarf and redirection
Urshifu demands some extent of support and has forms of competition, it's usage may look dominant but it's flaws are further shown by how it has less Day 2 consistency than the other 2 S-tiers, starting from its rise in Lille, it had 75 in comparison to Iron Hands ' 79 and Flutter Mane 's 80. Even when we start from Toronto, where Urshifu snagged first place, it has 57 results in comparison to Iron Hands ' 60 and Flutter Mane 's 59. Imo Urshifu just doesn't qualify for S tier even with his ridiculously broken it can get
Ursaluna from B -> B+.
Ursaluna has been a reliable trick room sweeper and I believe its qualities mentioned earlier in the format still apply (ridiculous power, spore immunity, nigh impossible to trade let alone stop it without losing anything). I think it's results best explain its placement though, has found a place on Cresselia Semi-Room and Indeedee Psyspam and why it seems to have more results than almost every trick room setter. Flexible in where it can fit and has a positive meta mu, your best bets into it being Rillaboom and the intimidators who drop and don't get a free switch. It also in general benefits from the meta being more offensive, to the point that the average team will only have 3 protects.
Ninetales from B -> B+.
Not much to say here, the Veil teams it defines are still consistent right now as not much has changed. Great speed tier and toolkit which allows it to be great support, and has a relatively positive matchup into common Veil answers such as Urshifu , especially when paired with Rillaboom and Wellspring . has as many results as Dragonite this Regulation and both have kept a relative pace. It had a poor event in Gdansk where it didn't receive any results but neither did Cresselia , and Tatsugiri didn't get one at LAIC either.
Cornerstone from B- -> B.
Cornerstone really has no place being below Ogerpon . The latter is niche and many pokemon can replicate its job, requiring support built around it simply to justify using it. Cornerstone on the other hand, has established itself as a great pokemon on semi-room comps for sturdy follow me, guaranteeing trick room on occasions and usually dropping for a sweeper to enter. Cornerstone is also a threatening offensive Pokemon, having an accurate 120 BP rock type move, which is especially insane in this meta as it is notably rock weak. Has a few results to back it up and there's really not much else to say, which is why I don't intend on ranking it any higher
Gastrodon from B- -> C.
Just not a good pokemon right now, isn't actually a reliable answer to most of the good ones right now, being afraid of Iron Bundle and Wellspring , while also being threatened with a 2HKO from Urshifu . Gastrodon is also a very passive pokemon, so it doesn't want to be burning Tera to check the water types it's supposed to check. This is ignoring how Rillaboom is a superb partner for all of them and how Wellspring almost completely outclasses it in its role due to the better meta matchup and offensive pressure. I mean, the pokemon has 2 Day 2 results (I'm pretty sure I'm right this time) throughout all of this Regulation and just can not be justified over unique pokemon with 5+ results.
Regieleki from C+ -> C.
Nothing has actually changed in its favour, it even being on the vr implies that you can build a successful team with it, and I don't think Thiago's result changes much here.
Empoleon from C -> D.
Next to no reason to use this pokemon, poor meta matchup solely because it takes too much damage from a bunch of things but can't hit them back with its pathetic SpA stat. Best use case for Empoleon is not bringing it to a battle and just telling your opponent on preview that they shouldn't bring Intimidate (Which does not actually work because both main intimidators have a chance to ohko it outright, and guarantee with any form of chip or Chien-Pao on the field). Feels outclassed by Milotic in its role and that pokemon is already not very good, only reason it isn't UR is because Yawn is a nice tool. Gastrodon who I just badmouthed, uses it better too. By the way, has this thing had any form of success so far?
a mon being used 5~ times more than another mon doesn't make it a whole tier better, if we're talking about usage iron hands has far fewer wins than urshifu, i think urshifu is easily s tier
a mon being used 5~ times more than another mon doesn't make it a whole tier better, if we're talking about usage iron hands has far fewer wins than urshifu, i think urshifu is easily s tier
That is fair, avoided results being the main reason. Urshifu just seems to require specific support to function so well and faces competition on many compositions, Its awkward speed tier is also an issue in the tailwind mirror where it isn't outspeeding the field anymore. I think Flutter Mane and Iron Hands ' splashibility make them the only two that qualify for S tier imo, and I don't think Urshifu 's qualities or meta matchup make up for it. It's harder to get across what I'm saying without a definition on tiers though.
short post but i'd like to stress that urshi forcing specific team compositions is hardly relevant when said structures are generally better than everything else in the meta and said pokemon plays a large role in that fact
urshi "forcing" torn is not a good reason to have it lower than S rank (in fact i'd sooner move torn up to that rank as well than move ursh down)
That is fair, avoided results being the main reason. Urshifu just seems to require specific support to function so well and faces competition on many compositions, Its awkward speed tier is also an issue in the tailwind mirror where it isn't outspeeding the field anymore. I think Flutter Mane and Iron Hands ' splashibility make them the only two that qualify for S tier imo, and I don't think Urshifu 's qualities or meta matchup make up for it. It's harder to get across what I'm saying without a definition on tiers though.
short post but i'd like to stress that urshi forcing specific team compositions is hardly relevant when said structures are generally better than everything else in the meta and said pokemon plays a large role in that fact
urshi "forcing" torn is not a good reason to have it lower than S rank (in fact i'd sooner move torn up to that rank as well than move ursh down)
That’s what I was trying to say. See, Urshifu needing Torn to work is just a large conspiracy. I’ve used Ursh Rapid without Torn multiple times and it still does so much damage.
That’s what I was trying to say. See, Urshifu needing Torn to work is just a large conspiracy. I’ve used Ursh Rapid without Torn multiple times and it still does so much damage.
I didn't say it needs Tornadus , I said it needs heavy speed control like TW. The 2 recent regionals have Urshifu paired with Tailwind 95% of the time, if it was doing just as well without it, this really wouldn't be the case. If Urshifu needs this support to function so well, I don't think it individually qualifies for S. I understand it can work but I also feel a lot of personal ladder experience can be iffy, because Urshifu has not felt overwhelming at all to me without Tornadus .
can drop to A-. Out of all the fire types in A, I think it has the fewest reasons to be picked on common builds right now. Fairy Tera
, its most common set, walls it to hell and back, and has a generally better defensive matchup into the current meta.
adds a lot more to teams in terms of offensive and defensive utility than
core, applying Intimidate pressure and allowing for a safe lead into a lot of different compositions. Extremespeed isn’t a bad move, either!
from A+ to A-. She’s failed to keep up with the shifting metagame, and people are learning to adapt to her. She can still do that big damage everyone is scared of. She’s just getting less space to do it, and
from UR —> S. Need I explain more?
, 
+ 
. I could go on… And while it synergizes well with 
, its basically only usable if there’s a Flutter on the same team, which severely holds it back imo.
is a bigger problem, and Chi-Yu 
, Landorus 
, Ogerpon-Wellspring 
and Urshifu 
Chien-Pao
Amoonguss
Iron Bundle
Roaring Moon
Gholdengo
Kingambit
Dragonite
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Cresselia
Baxcalibur
Farigiraf
Ninetales-Alola
Ogerpon-Cornerstone
Sinistcha
Indeedee-F
Weezing
Regidrago
Glimmora
Ursaluna
Clefairy
Dragapult
Gothitelle
Kommo-o
Ogerpon
Gastrodon
Brambleghast
Dusclops
Milotic
Thundurus
Pelipper
Scream Tail
Tyranitar
Torkoal
Gyarados
Okidogi
Volcarona
Annihilape
Goodra-Hisui
Moltres-Galar
Lilligant-Hisui
Enamorus-Therian
Zapdos
from B -> C+/C.
or Grimmsnarl 
looking at the tier. Out of the Day 2 LAIC teams, a SINGLE team had 0 Twave immunities, and one of them even had FIVE (9 teams had 1, 14 teams had 2, 9 teams had 3 immunities if curious). Thundurus 
from B- -> C.
or 
, B- is far too high for the pokemon with its showings right now.
from UR -> B-
Zapdos-Galar
Sylveon
Iron Valiant
Snorlax
Politoed
Spectrier
Empoleon
Ting-Lu
Regieleki
Mimikyu
Hatterene
Weezing-Galar
Sneasler
Thundurus-Therian
Maushold
Ninetales
Munkidori
Gallade
Mamoswine
Fezandipiti
Ludicolo
Mienshao
Oranguru
Wo-Chien
