termi
bike is short for bichael
Your side-by-side comparison with Mesprit proves nothing. What am I supposed to gain from a random listing of perks of two top tier threats (without discussion of cons to boot)? I could make an equally or even more compelling list of perks that for example Sandslash-A and Oricorio-E possess, but this in itself does not mean that any of these threats are or are not S rank worthy. What exactly is Skuntank's impact on the metagame that makes it more than a "mere" A or A+ rank Pokemon (which at the end of the day still means it's a top threat)? You can point at "splashability" all you want but I find that the two A+ mons I previously mentioned are at least as easy to fit on a team, even many threats in lower ranks like Primeape, Lanturn, and Regirock are at least as splashable as Skuntank. I am not alone in this: if we take a look at Exhibition, the most recent tournament where PU is played at a high level, we find that in the first 6 weeks Skuntank has been used 20 times, with over half of these 20 being used in the first two weeks (when the meta was at its most unstable and the broken Minior made its Sucker Punch + Aftermath/Rocky Helmet combo very appealing). By comparison, Oricorio-Pom-Pom has been used 21 times, Sandslash-A 29 times, Primeape 26 times, Regirock 16 times, Lanturn 16 times. Mesprit, the Pokemon you are trying to compare it with in terms of supposed splashability, has been used 48 times. In practice, we find that Skuntank is popular on a high level, butSkuntank: S to A+ (disagree)
So for Skuntank I had to do a Pro Skunk and Pro Mesprit list (see down below in the spoiler). For me it's just a decision of whether Skuntank has more or less pros than Mesprit since they both have what it takes to be S rank. They are splashable (which is a criteria in my opinion. Didn't understand Exeggutor in S when it was allowed tbh), they, hence, can fulfill supportive, offensive or defensive roles.
To think about S-Ranks that way may seem strange but if you look at other S-ranks like Lando-T in OU, Scizor in UU, Stoise in RU or Incineroar in NU they all do exactly have these advantages (and more, like ours).
That's also why I positioned myself to disagree on Stout being S. Just because something is broken doesn't mean it has to be S.
Eitherway, for Skuntank's case, it isn't even in question if it is a subrank below Mesprit or not (which was my initial thought on that topic). It differs from Mesprit through its movepool that isn't as big as Mesprit's. However, Skuntank has strengths in other places again. Just look at the list I've made so my point gets clear.
In short: Skuntank and Mesprit have the same amount of good points speaking for each of them so don't seperating them in the ranks only seems reasonable.
Pros Skunk:
- Great Offense MU with a strong Sucker Punch
- Great defensive Utility in checking PU's best Pokemon imo: Mesprit
- Different sets and unpredictablity. Possible to punish its usual switchins (like Gurdurr/Mudsdale) with Acid Spray. Band and Scarf are also nice sets to compress other roles
- In a pinch, it can inflict important chip on physical threats with Rocky Helmet + Aftermath
- Has a place on basically every playstyle
- Decent Hazard Removal
- Best Pursuit in PU
Pros Mesprit:
- Great Breaking potential with CM or Choice Specs
- decent Offense Matchup with the Scarf Set
- one of the best pivots
- great supportive role with the defensive set (Healing Wish/SR; Rain Dance if you want)
-> A SR setter that also is a Fighting resist is amazing
- Most splashable Pokemon in PU; Scarf and Rocks are potent in every team and Mesprit can do both without losing much
- Unpredictable. You can adjust its set depending on your team.
- Also has a place on every playstyle
While we're comparing it to Mesprit, let's also take a better look at its supposed versatility (a common argument for its ranking). Yes, it's true that it has 4 sets it can run. However, any set that isn't the standard Rocky Helmet set has some very obvious flaws that make it far less desirable. The CB set does hit significantly harder, but can't utilize its two best moves (Sucker Punch and Pursuit) as effectively because being locked into either move can be very awkward on a lot of teams, and it still struggles with most of its checks and counters, at best taking them out with Explosion. Scarf meanwhile is an extremely niche set that I personally haven't encountered yet, but I assume it's useful on certain hyperoffense teams that appreciate its resistances + a fast Memento, but outside of that you're better off with its standard set. The special set probably is the best of its non-standard sets, as it does allow it to pick apart slower teams and deals with most of its usual checks not named Regirock decently, but this set still sacrifices the things that usually make you want to run Skuntank (Pursuit trapping Mesprit, Sucker Punch, Rocky Helmet + Aftermath, Defog) and is pretty lackluster without Z-move, so this set too lacks that splashability that its most common set has. Now if we look at Mesprit, what we find is that it does better in the versatility department than Skuntank: there's defensive SR, offensive SR, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, CM + 3 attacks, and bulky CM, with many of these sets having several variations. Defensive is the "standard" set, providing the greatest amount of utility of them all (SR, reliable Fighting resist, Healing Wish, U-Turn pivot), but the other non-standard sets are more common than Skuntank's non-standard sets, are better at dealing with the usual Mesprit checks, and sacrifice less utility when deviating from the standard than Skuntank does. All non-choiced sets remain fairly reliable Fighting resists due to them usually running Colbur or Z-move and tend to do a better against a lot of common Mesprit checks (Sandslash-A, Aggron, even Skuntank itself), meanwhile Scarf is its second most common set due to how many teams love a fast HW and due to how many fast mons have difficulty stomaching a strong Psychic (meanwhile thanks to U-Turn you can still keep yourself from getting trapped too easily). While defensive is Mesprit's most splashable set, I wouldn't say its other sets are clearly a step below it; Skuntank's most common set is also by far its best set and its other sets are rarely worth considering in practice.
As far as pro-Skuntank arguments I've seen thus far, I think the most convincing is the one made by Ktütverde: Skuntank (or at least its Rocky Helmet set) is low risk, high reward. Between its ability to pick off weakened sweepers with Sucker Punch, the great damage it can inflict with Aftermath + Rocky Helmet on a few threatening breakers and cleaners like Stoutland, Primeape, and Aggron (but let's not exaggerate: most top threats in PU do not rely on contact moves), and the fact that it is the best or second best answer to the best mon in the tier is not to be underestimated. That being said, none of this I feel makes it an S rank threat per se: in terms of versatility, defensive utility, and so-called splashability it is rivaled by many mons that aren't even brought up as potential S rank candidates. In addition, its movepool remains fairly limited, with its only viable attacks aside from STAB moves being Fire Blast (on special) and Explosion (on CB). It's versatile, but not that versatile. It's splasahable, but not that splashable. It's capable of checking a decent portion of the tier, but is easily checked by numerous common mons in return. Its power is sufficient, but far from overwhelming. All of this is to say, I absolutely think it's a great Pokemon, I am even willing to say that for the moment A+ might be a better rank for it, but considering its flaws and considering the current shape of the meta, I do not think it has that X factor that makes it worthy of S rank at this moment.
Anyway, while I'm here I'll give rebuttal to a few noms I disagree with:
Noms I particularly agree with: Froslass to S, Primeape and Gurdurr moving up, Jelli to A, Bouff/Simipour up, Missy/Probopass down (Probo has been absolutely terrible since Ferroseed left and may as well be unranked until the seed returns tbh)
Also I'm too lazy to make official noms but I very much agree with Ktut's suggestions to rank Simisage and move Golurk up a subrank cuz it's a great offensive rockers that compresses several roles in one which makes it very good on many an offensive team (Primeape counter, Rock check, SR setter (duh), emergency spinblocker etc)