Unova Classic

[Epalk]

I have battled against a team that used musharna in battle spot. the team was basically get safeguard up, and have pokemon on both sides with telepathy use swagger on a rhyperior. musharna gets gravity i think, so that's something neat about it.

I believe that ambipom could be B or C rank. I use it as a mega kangaskhan replacement. My set is fake out/return/low kick/knock off. It deals lots of damage to rotom, terrakion, tyranitar, crobat, gardevoir, heatran, smeargle, zapdos, landorus-t, etc. I'd argue that ambipom matches m-kang's power, and that it's good even without sucker punch.
Of course, my main battle spot strategy turn 1 is: fake out/dazzling gleam/fake out OR fake out/dazzling gleam/snatch or quick guard. (ambipom/gardevoir/hitmontop or ambipom/gardevoir/crobat)

Unfezant and krookodile could be the same rank as whimsicott/terrakion as crobat is always next to terrakion/krookodile. Although unfezant doesn't get prankster, it still gets taunt/tailwind/detect. Its always-crit-night slash does a nice amount of damage even when uninvested in attack. I like krookodile since earthquake is reliable and doesn't affect its flying teammates (unfezant/hydreigon/aerodactyl/crobat/scizor). krookodile's knock off at +6 is also reliable for getting rid of jellicent/cresselia. scizor uses feint and bullet punch, which are great against hitmontop/gardevoir/togekiss. crobat when invested in attack + sharp beak allows it to ko amoongus most of the time as well.

Slowbro is nice with heal pulse/trick room, but it's kinda eh. most slowbro carry psyshock/surf/trick room/protect and are on rain teams with gastrodon as its star. i'd only use slowbro on a trick room rain team. cresselia gets skill swap and can shift without much fear and can do something to ludicolo.

 

[T.U.C.]

I have battled against a team that used musharna in battle spot. the team was basically get safeguard up, and have pokemon on both sides with telepathy use swagger on a rhyperior. musharna gets gravity i think, so that's something neat about it.

I believe that ambipom could be B or C rank. I use it as a mega kangaskhan replacement. My set is fake out/return/low kick/knock off. It deals lots of damage to rotom, terrakion, tyranitar, crobat, gardevoir, heatran, smeargle, zapdos, landorus-t, etc. I'd argue that ambipom matches m-kang's power, and that it's good even without sucker punch.
Of course, my main battle spot strategy turn 1 is: fake out/dazzling gleam/fake out OR fake out/dazzling gleam/snatch or quick guard. (ambipom/gardevoir/hitmontop or ambipom/gardevoir/crobat)

Unfezant and krookodile could be the same rank as whimsicott/terrakion as crobat is always next to terrakion/krookodile. Although unfezant doesn't get prankster, it still gets taunt/tailwind/detect. Its always-crit-night slash does a nice amount of damage even when uninvested in attack. I like krookodile since earthquake is reliable and doesn't affect its flying teammates (unfezant/hydreigon/aerodactyl/crobat/scizor). krookodile's knock off at +6 is also reliable for getting rid of jellicent/cresselia. scizor uses feint and bullet punch, which are great against hitmontop/gardevoir/togekiss. crobat when invested in attack + sharp beak allows it to ko amoongus most of the time as well.

Slowbro is nice with heal pulse/trick room, but it's kinda eh. most slowbro carry psyshock/surf/trick room/protect and are on rain teams with gastrodon as its star. i'd only use slowbro on a trick room rain team. cresselia gets skill swap and can shift without much fear and can do something to ludicolo.

Ambipom makes for a better Khan substitute than a Mega Khan substitute. Heres some damage calcs. Note, I'm using Double Hit on Ambipom because it consistently does 1-3% more damage than Return would. I am providing screen shots as well as the calc:

252+ Atk Life Orb Kangaskhan Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 174-205 (104.1 - 122.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Ambipom Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 161-192 (96.4 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Ambipom Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 179-213 (107.1 - 127.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The calcs above are for those too lazy to click on the screen shots, but the screen shots show that regular life Orb Khan consistently achieves a couple more % of damage than Jolly Ambipom on all moves except Fake Out. The only advantage I see is that Ambipom outspeeds both Khan and Mega Khan. But, Khan can be boosted by Tailwind, or can run in TRoom to beat Terrekion. Both are pretty evenly matched, and therefore should be ranked similarly on the VR.

 

[Carbonific]

Note, I'm using Double Hit on Ambipom because it consistently does 1-3% more damage than Return would

Double Hit's 90% accuracy means its average base power is actually 94.5; less than a full power Return/Frustration.

 

[Epalk]

The calcs above are for those too lazy to click on the screen shots, but the screen shots show that regular life Orb Khan consistently achieves a couple more % of damage than Jolly Ambipom on all moves except Fake Out. The only advantage I see is that Ambipom outspeeds both Khan and Mega Khan. But, Khan can be boosted by Tailwind, or can run in TRoom to beat Terrekion. Both are pretty evenly matched, and therefore should be ranked similarly on the VR.

Thanks for the calcs, but isn't leaving kang in vs a potential +6 terrakion suicide? And you're right. Speed is why I use ambipom. Outspeeding zapdos/terrakion is pretty important lol. I suppose kang and ambipom should be ranked together. Kang's scrappy/inner focus is also very neat.

I was also kinda thinking of using defiant purugly with fake out/sucker punch/return/snatch, but the lack of low kick is not good. It has similar stats to ambipom tho.

 

[Theorymon]

A trend I've been noticing on the ladder is a ton of random Pokemon with Sunny Day. Now, this isn't unheard of in Triples, but usually there I saw it on the likes of say, Meowstic and Whimsicott. In Unova Classic, I've seen it on just about everything. It REALLY messed up my two rain teams, so I'm considering just not using weather in the real tournament if people are gonna go that far to screw with rain lol.

Or I may even use a Rain Dance Pokemon, who knows...

Anyways, I'll update the viability rankings tomorrow with some new stuff to consider.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

A trend I've been noticing on the ladder is a ton of random Pokemon with Sunny Day. Now, this isn't unheard of in Triples, but usually there I saw it on the likes of say, Meowstic and Whimsicott. In Unova Classic, I've seen it on just about everything. It REALLY messed up my two rain teams, so I'm considering just not using weather in the real tournament if people are gonna go that far to screw with rain lol.

Or I may even use a Rain Dance Pokemon, who knows...

Anyways, I'll update the viability rankings tomorrow with some new stuff to consider.

I'm the dick that invented Sunny Day Suicune.
All your rain are cringe to me.

The answer is obviously "run a manual Sun team and watch shit burn". Wonder if my old Sun team works in Triples... :P

Also Ambipom is fun as hell, but shouldn't be compared to the divinity of Khan. Fake Out -> Double Hit outruns and KO's a lot of stuff and fishes for crits, but it doesn't have the raw power/bulk to just 1v1 literally anything you throw in front of it. Good against fast and frail stuff yeah, but utter shit against bulky mons like Zapdos. It's pretty good among non-mega Normal choices but so is non-mega Khan, lol.

 

[Epalk]

My rain team has rain dance raikou. It's good for messing up ninetales and stuff. One should watch out for sunny day dusclops/cresselia/heatran/amoongus lol. Trick room eruption heatran in the sun is such a threat. I'm glad I have gastrodon to take care of it.

I wonder if specs gardevoir is used just as much as specs sylveon. I rely on life orb ambipom's fake out and gard's dazzling gleam to knock out a pokemon or even 3 in the 1st turn. Gardevoir's trace is great for getting moody/intimidate/flash fire as well.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Hey, with all these weathers flying around, Cloud Nine offers some control if your team doesn't use weather at all, huh? I know Golduck was pretty solid with that weird Soak Shedinja gimmick in VGC 16. Also, I've been thinking about a close approximation to Aegislash since he's banned. Probopass is a Steel type with Wide Guard, but 4x weakness to Ground and Fighting suuucks.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Hey, with all these weathers flying around, Cloud Nine offers some control if your team doesn't use weather at all, huh? I know Golduck was pretty solid with that weird Soak Shedinja gimmick in VGC 16. Also, I've been thinking about a close approximation to Aegislash since he's banned. Probopass is a Steel type with Wide Guard, but 4x weakness to Ground and Fighting suuucks.

I think I'd rather use Altaria for the Ground immune, Tailwind/Safeguard support, and possible last-ditch Perish Song.
One should not use Altaria.
I'd just run Rain Dance or Sunny Day, whichever one you hate less. maybe TTar too, I dunno.
Wide Guard you have Torterra, Golem, Machamp, Mienshao, Hitmontop, Aerodactyl, fuck even Pelipper, which has Soak and Tailwind to boot.

My rain team has rain dance raikou. It's good for messing up ninetales and stuff. One should watch out for sunny day dusclops/cresselia/heatran/amoongus lol. Trick room eruption heatran in the sun is such a threat. I'm glad I have gastrodon to take care of it.

I wonder if specs gardevoir is used just as much as specs sylveon. I rely on life orb ambipom's fake out and gard's dazzling gleam to knock out a pokemon or even 3 in the 1st turn. Gardevoir's trace is great for getting moody/intimidate/flash fire as well.

Specs? Probably not, but considering Mega Altaria and Sylveon dn't exist in this meta I'd say it might work. Scarf gardevoir was very much a thing in VGC2014. Then again, so was Dragon Pulse ScarfMence...

 

[Theorymon]

So sorry for the delay, I got really busy this weekend! Here's the new changes to the viability list! check out the full list in the first post!

S rank

I moved Amoonguss here, since its the most dangerous sleep spreader, really dangerous in Trick Room, and a great redirector. I don't mind moving it back down to A if there is demand though.

A rank

Moved Amoonguss to S rank :P

B rank

No changes here!

C rank

Oh man a lot of changes here!

I moved Krookodile / Unfezent here. Might move them up to B, I do think it can be very dangerous strat, but it isnt nearly as common as Whimsicott and Terrakion.

I moved Slowbro / Slowking here, since they have a niche as TR mons.

I moved Ambipom and Kangaskhan here as Fake Out alternatives. Note though, I'd personally give Ambipom a slight edge because most Terrakion teams have Tailwind support, so outspeeding that is HUGE imo!

I put Dusknoir here. It does have some advatanges over Dusclops, but I felt like when it comes to Mental Herb TRers, Cresselia and Jellicent are better. Don't mind moving it down to D if there is demand.

D rank

I put Altaria and Golduck in D for now, I haven't been very impressed with with Cloud Nine. Using Sunny Day / Rain Dance is a lot more devestating to weather teams.

Not Sure

Weavile: I've started to see quite a few of these on Terrakion teams as a back up Beat Uper that also slams Landorus-T. Seems like B rank to me, but could be C rank too.

Uxie: I saw this once in Sinnoh Classic: It used Imprison to totally mess up my TR team, and it locked Protect too. Sorta similar to Musharna, except its a lot bulkier and doesn't have After You (also a lot faster than Musharna). Thoughts? seems like a shoe in for C rank if it works in Triples.

Alomomola: Someone suggested this as a Wide Guard alternative. Its SpD really sucks, but it does avoid getting bird spammed like Hitmontop and Hariyama. Anyone have experience with this?

Staraptor: Its pretty strong at Bird spamming. While it doesn't get the Intimidate boost Braviary has, it does have a faster and more powerful Brave Bird, and can even use Intimidate itself. Not sure where to place it though, I've barely seen them even though it seems sorta strong.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

So sorry for the delay, I got really busy this weekend! Here's the new changes to the viability list! check out the full list in the first post!

S rank

I moved Amoonguss here, since its the most dangerous sleep spreader, really dangerous in Trick Room, and a great redirector. I don't mind moving it back down to A if there is demand though.

A rank

Moved Amoonguss to S rank :P

B rank

No changes here!

C rank

Oh man a lot of changes here!

I moved Krookodile / Unfezent here. Might move them up to B, I do think it can be very dangerous strat, but it isnt nearly as common as Whimsicott and Terrakion.

I moved Slowbro / Slowking here, since they have a niche as TR mons.

I moved Ambipom and Kangaskhan here as Fake Out alternatives. Note though, I'd personally give Ambipom a slight edge because most Terrakion teams have Tailwind support, so outspeeding that is HUGE imo!

I put Dusknoir here. It does have some advatanges over Dusclops, but I felt like when it comes to Mental Herb TRers, Cresselia and Jellicent are better. Don't mind moving it down to D if there is demand.

D rank

I put Altaria and Golduck in D for now, I haven't been very impressed with with Cloud Nine. Using Sunny Day / Rain Dance is a lot more devestating to weather teams.

Not Sure

Weavile: I've started to see quite a few of these on Terrakion teams as a back up Beat Uper that also slams Landorus-T. Seems like B rank to me, but could be C rank too.

Uxie: I saw this once in Sinnoh Classic: It used Imprison to totally mess up my TR team, and it locked Protect too. Sorta similar to Musharna, except its a lot bulkier and doesn't have After You (also a lot faster than Musharna). Thoughts? seems like a shoe in for C rank if it works in Triples.

Alomomola: Someone suggested this as a Wide Guard alternative. Its SpD really sucks, but it does avoid getting bird spammed like Hitmontop and Hariyama. Anyone have experience with this?

Staraptor: Its pretty strong at Bird spamming. While it doesn't get the Intimidate boost Braviary has, it does have a faster and more powerful Brave Bird, and can even use Intimidate itself. Not sure where to place it though, I've barely seen them even though it seems sorta strong.

I was joking when I mentioned Altaria, I thought it'd be... self-evident. lol. may I suggest removing both it and Golduck? :P

Dusknoir: why, it has no reason to exist. It needs at least +30 to base HP before it'll ever truly exist. Cofagrigus, Jellicent, Dusclops, Musharna, Cress, Uxie, and Reuniclus do literally everything you'd ever need better. Huge Dusky fan but I can't even pretend to embellish it.
Alololololololololololomola: Nope, haven't used in Gen 6. Wide Guard + Heal Pulse is a cool niche but eh.
Mantine has an EQ immunity, Tailwind, Icy Wind, and Wide Guard, ok-ish bulk. Might be worth a mention?
Uxie: lol, imprison. I guess if you really hate TR that's a funny way of killing it, but is really worth running what is essentially Cresselia with a -45 base HP handicap and no Moonlight?
Staraptor: will be so fun. Intimidate support, or Reckless BB nukes? Oh the indecision!

edit: ah yes, a pokemon I find particularly good in triples is Latias. Let me explain.
Dragon Pulse hits the whole field, as does Heal Pulse: this, coupled with Latias' vast array of support, good bulk and high Speed, makes it an absolute blessing on the battlefield. Access to all Weather moves, Tailwind, Safeguard, Icy Wind, Heal Pulse + Recover (an extremely rare combination that is limited to Meganium, Slowbro/King, and Chimecho as competition), Dragon Pulse, Levitate for EQ spam, Helping Hand, she can honestly be tailored to damn near any team that isn't dedicated TR.
Toss her in C, its fair enough without overblowing her usefullness.

 

[Epalk]

I don't think many teams have both a whimsicott and weavile. One would use a Weavile for fake out, knock off, and stuff. but I don't think it's that great since hitmontop/hariyama exist + intimidate.

Staraptor is strong, but I think it will be hard to use. Zapdos and landorus mess it up. Staraptor is also hard to switch in. Crobat and talonflame don't fear fairy/fighting moves, which is kinda why they're great. Most staraptor are sharp beaked and have tailwind, but I can't imagine having staraptor in against a ludicolo. I assure you that Crobat is a better bird.

Gardevoir (well, its mega) is one of the best imprisoners imo. It can lock protect/dazzling gleam/trick room. If you use imprison gard, then it has to have a pixie plate or sitrus berry since it's not specs ;(

Some pokemon to add could be scrafty and clefairy. C rank seems right for em. Scrafty's bulky and good in trick room. Clefairy is very annoying with follow me and stuff. I see clefairy more on beat up teams.

 

[Smuckem]

I was thinking, what about Mamoswine? It's true, he needs a decent amount of support to actually get around to hitting anything, but thinking about how many of the B to S Rank 'mons he has the type advantage on, and knowing how hard the LO set can hit in general, I would have to think he's a C.

Full disclosure: I am throwing this out there due to:
- Running into Mamoswine4 in the Maison last night and being reminded of how fucking hard it hits
- Had a very rare instance of said Maison throwing an All-Gen team at me, Mr.Mime/Medicham/Mienshao/Meganium/Lucario/Goodra (Set 4), and was pondering making this my team for the comp. Goodra is banned of course, and a Mamoswine I had originally built for a Gravity team is one of the options I' juggling for replacing it (though it most likely would not be based off of a Maison set).

 

[Bigbonbon]

As I continue playing ive become well equipped to handle terracott however its the teams that have the 3rd pokemon also applying a lot of pressure that cause a bit of an uphill battle from the start. These pokemon like DV smeargle or belly drum azumarill take advantage of the fact that you are trying to stop terracott and force you to make tough decisions. I have also been seeing a lot of clefairy on terracott teams which is annoying when I'm using a trick room team and I get hit with an after you. I also wonder if terrakion surviving an important ohko with friend guard up is a another reason clefairy is used.

One thing I have noticed is that more and more heatran teams opt for manual wheather instead of relying on ninetales.

Have you guys come across any interesting teams? Ive seen entrainment Smeargle with Regigigas that was funny and another team with sword dance explosion licki. I also came across a terracott team but left terrakion in the back and instead lead with weakness policy gengar and whimsicott used beat up on it. Whimgar new meta XD

 

[Psycho Cut]

To be fair, having a "back up" for Terracotta, either in the form of another Justified 'mon (Arcanine or Lucario anyone? +6 Extremespeeds), or a weakness policy user, is not a bad idea. It certainly has that surprise factor.

 

[Epalk]

Follow me riolu is neat. Good against opposing beat up teams.

I tend to beat teracott teams by leading with ambipom/gardevoir/crobat. Ambipom usually fakes out terrakion (some terrakion use protect), gardevoir sometimes uses dazzling gleam (or it flinches from opposing fake out), and crobat snatches tailwind/quick guard. It's effective since either terrakion faints or I get a free tailwind.

I think heatran (modest and invested in sp. atk and sp. def) is the best abuser of weakness policy. My hitmontop's intimidate lets heatran live a low kick/close combat. Heatran can tank a scald and water spout as well (not in rain). +2 heat wave is very deadly and easily gets rid of opposing landorus-t, zapdos, and more. Dragonite might have use for it, but there's intimidate and fairies to look out for. Dragon/ice/fairy type moves are not very common, too. :(

 

[Maystack]

I still struggle mightily against Terracott teams. I'm not nearly as confident about this competition as I have been for the past two. I think triples is throwing me off.

 

[J.Mike]

Hi,

While preparing for the Classic, i plan to use a Landorus-T, sadly i couldn't get one with Adamant nature... i have a lvl 10 (from pokemon dream radar) with Mild nature.

Any ideas of how to allocate his Evs?

 

[a0161613]

Hi,

While preparing for the Classic, i plan to use a Landorus-T, sadly i couldn't get one with Adamant nature... i have a lvl 10 (from pokemon dream radar) with Mild nature.

Any ideas of how to allocate his Evs?

Get one from one of the giveaways from the Wifi section.

 

[Bigbonbon]

I still struggle mightily against Terracott teams. I'm not nearly as confident about this competition as I have been for the past two. I think triples is throwing me off.

Follow me, fake out, and wide guard are all good ways to stop terracott.

I usually fake out terrakion but when my opponent has a faster fake out or I anticipate quick guard then I go straight for wide guard.

To be fair, having a "back up" for Terracotta, either in the form of another Justified 'mon (Arcanine or Lucario anyone? +6 Extremespeeds), or a weakness policy user, is not a bad idea. It certainly has that surprise factor.

Yeah the gengar really caught me off guard and I couldn't make a comeback. However when we matched up again the surprise factor was gone and it was a close match

 

[Maystack]

Follow me, fake out, and wide guard are all good ways to stop terracott.

I usually fake out terrakion but when my opponent has a faster fake out or I anticipate quick guard then I go straight for wide guard.

I usually go for fake our or wide guard but my hitmontop set is pretty slow so most likely gets faked out first. One method I've tried is running Worry Seed on my own whimsicott and just taking away terrakion's justified. It's worked the one time I've had the opportunity to use it, but it means running whimsicott without a damaging move.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

The removal of mega Pokemon has neutered a lot of Triples archetypes I normally play with, which rely one way or another on large spread damage (or see Sylveon as a lynch pin). Any thoughts on what makes a good Mega Mawile replacement for teams that like to have an option to perish and trap?

 

[Carbonific]

The removal of mega Pokemon has neutered a lot of Triples archetypes I normally play with, which rely one way or another on large spread damage (or see Sylveon as a lynch pin). Any thoughts on what makes a good Mega Mawile replacement for teams that like to have an option to perish and trap?

Azumarill? It gets a similarly powerful Play Rough, has Aqua Jet likewise to Mawile's Sucker Punch, and can even learn Perish Song.

 

[T.U.C.]

Hi,

While preparing for the Classic, i plan to use a Landorus-T, sadly i couldn't get one with Adamant nature... i have a lvl 10 (from pokemon dream radar) with Mild nature.

Any ideas of how to allocate his Evs?

To add to what a0161613 said, I actually posted a link to the giveaway thread earlier on this thread. It is actually the exact link you need to get a good Lando as well as any other competitive legendary.

 

[J.Mike]

To add to what a0161613 said, I actually posted a link to the giveaway thread earlier on this thread. It is actually the exact link you need to get a good Lando as well as any other competitive legendary.

Thank you! I already posted the request.