Agreed. I was using a stall team for a while and the first time I ran into sub magnet rise magnemite I literally got raped. Great stallbreaker.
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Underrated Little Cup Pokemon
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Bedew really isnt worth using this gen. Its old niche, as the fastest spikes user in LC, is now usurped. Venipede and dwebble are now of equal speed to it (all reaching 16 max), and trubbish is even faster reaching 17. While i wouldnt say venipede is any better, dwebble and trubbish probably are. It even got ferroseed to compete with it as a grass spiker, and of course ferroseed has that amazing bulk.
Hmmm here's my favorite underrated pokemon:
Numel @ Life Orb
76 SpA / 196 Att / 236 Spe
Hasty / Jolly
Simple
Nitro Charge
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Fire Blast / Howl
He's a pretty interesting one. Hes got a few niches as a fire and ground type to begin with. First hes not weak to SR like most fires are, and hes not hurt too much by grass or ice attacks (he just gets eaten by water...). Also, with the ability simple, those +1 boosts from nitro charge, turn into +2s, giving him 26 or 28 speed, depending on your nature. He can come in fairly easily on bronzor, or most any electric type (aside from chinchou), and get a nitro charge going. And from there his powerful moves make up for his average attacking stats. His only real drawback is he hates fairly bulky waters and REALLY hates the likes of kabuto and carvahana for their aqua jet. Still, he makes a mean late game sweeper once they are dead or sufficiently weakened to fall to an EQ.
Hmmm here's my favorite underrated pokemon:
Numel @ Life Orb
76 SpA / 196 Att / 236 Spe
Hasty / Jolly
Simple
Nitro Charge
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Fire Blast / Howl
He's a pretty interesting one. Hes got a few niches as a fire and ground type to begin with. First hes not weak to SR like most fires are, and hes not hurt too much by grass or ice attacks (he just gets eaten by water...). Also, with the ability simple, those +1 boosts from nitro charge, turn into +2s, giving him 26 or 28 speed, depending on your nature. He can come in fairly easily on bronzor, or most any electric type (aside from chinchou), and get a nitro charge going. And from there his powerful moves make up for his average attacking stats. His only real drawback is he hates fairly bulky waters and REALLY hates the likes of kabuto and carvahana for their aqua jet. Still, he makes a mean late game sweeper once they are dead or sufficiently weakened to fall to an EQ.
If DW abilities are allowed, Woobat/Koromori should get a Simple mention, which works insanely with CM and AP while allowing Woobat to become a Special Tank and still have decent Speed.
I don't think people are really understanding this. This isn't for Pokemon that have a small niche but aren't good, it's for Pokemon that are actually really good at what they do. Budew isn't underrated, Tentacool does its job better than it and that's why it's underused, but not underrated. Woobat is pretty outclassed by Murkrow who has MH and Feather Dance, as well as overall better stats. Ponyta is just as fast as Numel after they've both used Nitro Charge, factoring simple, and has much higher attack as well as access to Flare Blitz. Pokemon like Claw Sharpen Kabuto and Sub LO Magnemite are good at what they do, they have great stats for what they need, do their job better than any other Pokemon does, but are not used as much as they should be. Hence, they are underrated.
I don't really like that set, and I'm sure other don't. Sure, it's cool to get +2 in one turn and everything, but Water-types still rape it. I guess it's underrated as it can wreck havoc with proper team support, but most of the time it's just not good...It's not worth the trouble of setting up hazards, removing Water-types, getting rid of all your opponent's phazers, taunters, etc....
E: Ok I have something. This is Belly Drum Poliwag. I saw it in a LC analysis today and started using it--holy fuck this thing is amazing. Pretty much switch in on something stupid like Bronzor or Tesshiido, Encore while they SR/Protect or whatever, then Belly Drum on the switch. Oran Berry will activate, and since you're at 10 HP, Oran Berry will activate and bring you back up to max (20). Did you know Poliwag has base 90 Speed? I didn't. Seriously, this thing is as fast as Lucario. Now what? Well, you have a full health 56 Attack 19 Speed monster to rape with. You can use an alternate spread of 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe, but then Oran Berry won't fully heal you. Here is the set:
[box]Poliwag (M) @ Oran Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Encore
- Waterfall
- Return
- Belly Drum[/box]
PS this thing resists Bullet Punch and gets healed by Aqua Jet, funsies everywhere.
E: Ok I have something. This is Belly Drum Poliwag. I saw it in a LC analysis today and started using it--holy fuck this thing is amazing. Pretty much switch in on something stupid like Bronzor or Tesshiido, Encore while they SR/Protect or whatever, then Belly Drum on the switch. Oran Berry will activate, and since you're at 10 HP, Oran Berry will activate and bring you back up to max (20). Did you know Poliwag has base 90 Speed? I didn't. Seriously, this thing is as fast as Lucario. Now what? Well, you have a full health 56 Attack 19 Speed monster to rape with. You can use an alternate spread of 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe, but then Oran Berry won't fully heal you. Here is the set:
[box]Poliwag (M) @ Oran Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Encore
- Waterfall
- Return
- Belly Drum[/box]
PS this thing resists Bullet Punch and gets healed by Aqua Jet, funsies everywhere.
I used that in Gen 4, but with the atk moved to hp to help it take a hit. Issues are: Scarf mons, Tesshido, Puruiru. Not to mention Fake Out being totally kick-ass this gen. Bellywag just isn't a very reliable Pokemon in general. Will it rape face if it gets set up? Hell yeah. But, realistically, how often are you going to be taking down more than one Pokemon? Not often. You really need to structure your team around Poliwag to make it work, and even then you have to ask yourself, "is it worth it?"
Scarf Poliwag lead was boss last gen because it was such a "what the fuck is happening" Pokemon. It was ballsy and objectively shitty, but god damn if it didn't work. I haven't tried ScarfWag this gen yet, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. IF a Drizzle user existed in LC, Bellywag would be a very serious threat, but there is no permarain, and as a result Bellywag is mediocre.
If you want a really underrated Pokemon, give Diglett a whirl, I promise you won't be disappointed. STAB EQ hits likes a god damn truck and 20 Speed is nothing to laugh at. I run:
@ Life Orb
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ice]
EQ OHKOes a shit ton of things, Shadow Claw OHKOes non-Physically defensive Missy (and 2HKOes it even if Missy invests!!) and Gastly, Rock Slide covers Fliers like the (nonexistent atm) Mantyke and HP Ice 2HKOes Evo Stone Gligar. It has its flaws, obviously, but the free kill against Tentacool and revenging Slowpoke or Wynaut with ease is just awesome. If you don't think Diggy is underrated, then just think about how few you've seen on ladder. Try him out, seriously. PLUS, he revenges Bellywag!!
Scarf Poliwag lead was boss last gen because it was such a "what the fuck is happening" Pokemon. It was ballsy and objectively shitty, but god damn if it didn't work. I haven't tried ScarfWag this gen yet, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. IF a Drizzle user existed in LC, Bellywag would be a very serious threat, but there is no permarain, and as a result Bellywag is mediocre.
If you want a really underrated Pokemon, give Diglett a whirl, I promise you won't be disappointed. STAB EQ hits likes a god damn truck and 20 Speed is nothing to laugh at. I run:
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power [Ice]
EQ OHKOes a shit ton of things, Shadow Claw OHKOes non-Physically defensive Missy (and 2HKOes it even if Missy invests!!) and Gastly, Rock Slide covers Fliers like the (nonexistent atm) Mantyke and HP Ice 2HKOes Evo Stone Gligar. It has its flaws, obviously, but the free kill against Tentacool and revenging Slowpoke or Wynaut with ease is just awesome. If you don't think Diggy is underrated, then just think about how few you've seen on ladder. Try him out, seriously. PLUS, he revenges Bellywag!!
That looks like a really good set. I remember you used that against me once and it totally raped me. The picture is amazing xD
Only thing I'd have to say is that Jolly and Naive are pretty much the same. Both natures will do 61.5% - 76.9% to Gligar with HP Ice, and it's nice to be able to take VW from Gunk, especially since EQ OHKOs it.
[SIZE=-1]and 240 speed evs cause hp ice[/SIZE]
but yeah really good set, Diglett can do so much more than people think.
Only thing I'd have to say is that Jolly and Naive are pretty much the same. Both natures will do 61.5% - 76.9% to Gligar with HP Ice, and it's nice to be able to take VW from Gunk, especially since EQ OHKOs it.
[SIZE=-1]and 240 speed evs cause hp ice[/SIZE]
but yeah really good set, Diglett can do so much more than people think.
I've been messing around with Gible, and this set is surprisingly good:
Gible @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 132 HP / 196 Atk / 180 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
Reaches 21 Speed after the Salac Berry boost, has Sand Veil for free Subs (sometimes), Dragon Rush has 100 accuracy after 1 Claw Sharpen and 20% flinch rate which it can use as it outspeeds all nonboosted Pokemon. Pretty good set.
Gible @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 132 HP / 196 Atk / 180 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Earthquake
Reaches 21 Speed after the Salac Berry boost, has Sand Veil for free Subs (sometimes), Dragon Rush has 100 accuracy after 1 Claw Sharpen and 20% flinch rate which it can use as it outspeeds all nonboosted Pokemon. Pretty good set.
Eh, that's an ok set, but it's not underrated. Gible actually isn't that fast and can't pull it off as well as Garchomp in OU. Priority destroys it after a few subs, and stuff like Shell Smash Shellder beat it (Icicle Spear). I don't really see the point of using Dragon Rush either; Outrage is better. That would be good if it were OU, but it isn't that effective (and yes i've used a similar set)
Scarf snover and pretty much any gligar hard counter that set and are very common. Shellder can set up a shell smash on you and then ohko through a sub with icicle spear. Plus, you're relying on hax to set up a cs, and since it's slow and not that bulky, it looks like it'd have major issues setting up. Once you're set up and you sub down to the salac, you die to any priority move. Lastly, it's pretty outclassed. Zuruggu is an amazing DD sweeper with far better coverage and way more bulk. If you want resists that dragon typing provides, dratini gets DD as well and can be bulkier with an evo stone or oran berry and has extremespeed, while kibago hits way harder than gible and has mold breaker (I think it's released...) so that it gets far better coverage with dragon/ground. If you need an electric immune dragon sweeper... Imo just use a scarf gible. It doesn't have the issues your set does setting up, and unboosted stab outrages still hit really hard.
It's a cool set. It just has a bunch of issues that prevent it from being effective.
Oh, and claw sharpen is awful. A swords danced dragon claw hits harder than claw sharpened dragon rush.
It's a cool set. It just has a bunch of issues that prevent it from being effective.
Oh, and claw sharpen is awful. A swords danced dragon claw hits harder than claw sharpened dragon rush.
Yeah I agree. Claw Sharpen is the only thing Gible gets though, so that would probably be Gible's best shot at sweeping (probably with LO or Oran over Salac though). Zuruggu does that kind of thing better, though, with higher speed, more bulk, and a better boosting move (and Drain Punch). Although Gible does have stronger STABs.
I wouldn't say gible's stabs are all that much stronger when you consider the ridiculous SE coverage that zuruggu gets. And is a bit more power worth it for far less bulk and speed (Zuruggu can frequently set up two boosts while from the looks of it gible might have issues getting one).
Not saying it is, just pointing out that Outrage and Earthquake are stronger than anything Zuruggu has bar Hi Jump Kick, which it never uses. I'm not saying Gible is better by any means though, and definitely not trying to start an argument. Well anyway, I'll add something. I've been using Choice Scarf Murkrow and it's been working really well. I needed a Pokemon who can check Zuruggu, Missy, Slowpoke, and Gligar all in one shot, and just couldn't fine one. Ice Punch tite loses to poke; Tpunch tite loses to Gligar. Zuruggu didn't check other Zuruggu (assuming they're at +1) and Magnemite loses to Zuruggu and Misdreavus. Then-it came to me-why not use Scarfkrow? Dark Pulse hits Krow and Poke, Brave Bird smacks Zuruggu, and HP Ice gets Gligar. It also gets Heat Wave for Tesshiido. Ever since then, I've been using Choice Scarf Murkrow and it's been working really, really well. Murkrow's flawless coverage means just get rid of a certain type and you can clean up teams really well. Scarf Krow, now there's an underrated threat for you.
I've used Gible, and it's pretty terrible.
Anyway, we have an OU creative moveset thread, and NDenizen found this son of a bitch moveset. It works great in LC, because Riolu's a little too frail for OU. (I color-coded the slashes)
Riolu (M) @ Evolution Stone/Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Copycat
- Overhead Throw/Roar
- Bulk Up/Iron Defense
- Crunch/Drain Punch
Riolu's main selling point is the use of Mischievious Heart. See, the strategy is to boost up with Iron Defense or Bulk Up until you are strong. Then you use Roar or Overhead Throw and hope it goes last. The next turn, you use your +1 priority Copycat. Copycat chooses the last move used, so it chooses either Roar or Overhead Throw. So you can spam your +1 Phazing move 32 times (because of PP). A terror with hazards. In addition, If Riolu Bulked Up, the Overhead Throws are pretty powerful coming from a base 70 attack. It is important to note that Overhead Throw can't hit ghost types (which is why some prefer Roar), so if using Overhead Throw, run Crunch to handle Ghost-types. If using Roar, there's really no need for attack boosts, so I'd definitely run Iron Defense (Iron Defense can be used on both sets). As the STAB move, I'd run Drain Punch to heal up against fighting weak mons like Aron.
Anyway, we have an OU creative moveset thread, and NDenizen found this son of a bitch moveset. It works great in LC, because Riolu's a little too frail for OU. (I color-coded the slashes)
Riolu (M) @ Evolution Stone/Leftovers
Trait: Mischievous Heart
EVs: 196 HP / 116 Def / 196 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Copycat
- Overhead Throw/Roar
- Bulk Up/Iron Defense
- Crunch/Drain Punch
Riolu's main selling point is the use of Mischievious Heart. See, the strategy is to boost up with Iron Defense or Bulk Up until you are strong. Then you use Roar or Overhead Throw and hope it goes last. The next turn, you use your +1 priority Copycat. Copycat chooses the last move used, so it chooses either Roar or Overhead Throw. So you can spam your +1 Phazing move 32 times (because of PP). A terror with hazards. In addition, If Riolu Bulked Up, the Overhead Throws are pretty powerful coming from a base 70 attack. It is important to note that Overhead Throw can't hit ghost types (which is why some prefer Roar), so if using Overhead Throw, run Crunch to handle Ghost-types. If using Roar, there's really no need for attack boosts, so I'd definitely run Iron Defense (Iron Defense can be used on both sets). As the STAB move, I'd run Drain Punch to heal up against fighting weak mons like Aron.
edit: wait, doesn't copycat do the same thing as mirror move >_< http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Copycat_(move)#Effect
That Riolu definitely reminds me of the MH Assists strategy. Anyway, that Riolu set looks really, really good. Personally, I would use Leppa Berry as the move to troll for longer. Roar is probably inferior to Overhead Throw too, just "learn to Pursuit" as they say. I've never tried that, but now I really want to. Is MH released?
That Riolu definitely reminds me of the MH Assists strategy. Anyway, that Riolu set looks really, really good. Personally, I would use Leppa Berry as the move to troll for longer. Roar is probably inferior to Overhead Throw too, just "learn to Pursuit" as they say. I've never tried that, but now I really want to. Is MH released?
It's too bad that Riolu has not been released yet (although I'm not certain on this). But this is usable in DW LC.
Double Posting FTW
I love this set:
Riguree (F) @ Evolution Stone
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 236 HP / 236 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Yuniran doesn't have good enough stats to pull of the CM Recover thing like Rankurusu, but this guy can do it pretty well. The Defense EVs are maxed out to be able to take hits from both sides of the spectrum. Just CM, Recover, and tank. The coverage isn't perfect, but it hits most pokemon for neutral. Great if used with Dokkora to make a dual boosting core. It's also a fantastic Meditite counter.
I love this set:
Riguree (F) @ Evolution Stone
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 236 HP / 236 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Yuniran doesn't have good enough stats to pull of the CM Recover thing like Rankurusu, but this guy can do it pretty well. The Defense EVs are maxed out to be able to take hits from both sides of the spectrum. Just CM, Recover, and tank. The coverage isn't perfect, but it hits most pokemon for neutral. Great if used with Dokkora to make a dual boosting core. It's also a fantastic Meditite counter.
Holy hellDouble Posting FTW
I love this set:
Riguree (F) @ Evolution Stone
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 236 HP / 236 Def / 36 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Yuniran doesn't have good enough stats to pull of the CM Recover thing like Rankurusu, but this guy can do it pretty well. The Defense EVs are maxed out to be able to take hits from both sides of the spectrum. Just CM, Recover, and tank. The coverage isn't perfect, but it hits most pokemon for neutral. Great if used with Dokkora to make a dual boosting core. It's also a fantastic Meditite counter.
*rips*