Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

[Magcargo]

Well Scarf Keldeo / Terrakion I think would become non exsitant, and the standard sets would either be Specs / Banded or Expert Belt / Sub SD. I think the speed boost might push Keldeo over the line, but I actually dont think Terrakuon would be broken, as with the +1 speed boost its still dealt with by the same fashion (priority from Scizor and Breloom, and Gliscor / Landorus - T). Scarf Latios I think would also see a ton of usage, and maybe even stuff like Scarf Starmie and Gengar might becone popular to check these two.

I don't really agree with Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo becoming nonexistent. You have to remember that rattled is only affected by a limited number of moves, meaning that the amount of speed boost Terrakion and Keldeo can get are only applied to a limited number of moves. Choice Scarf Keldeo and Terrakion would still be able to revenge kill the things that the need to 100%. With Rattled, they don't have a guaranteed chance to boost their speed. I agree that CS Terrakion and Keldeo's usage will go somewhat down, but the two would definitely not become nonexistent.

Apart from that though, I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[Tesung]

What if there was a version of an air balloon for stealth rocks and rock type moves. Imagine volcarona, dnite, ninetales with a, for lack of a better name, HARD HELMET. To further this, there could be immunity items for all types, like fire immune item sd scizor. Note, it works exactly like air balloon.
Ps help me come up with a better name

 

[FluffyStantler]

Most of these theorymon are really lacking sense, this isn't the "lets make changes with 0 sense flavour wise just to break shit for no reason" thread, (not talking about chou's post, rattled musketeers would be rlly cool)

 

[ShootingStarmie]

This is a pretty cool idea to bring up with the recent SR-less ladder being put into action, as I think it represents what we'd see. Although I think some Pokemon weak to SR really like their item (Dragonite loves Lum berry as it allows it to not be confused after Outrage and allows it to switch into Scald more easily / set up on status inducers), I think it'd become a very popular choice on Pokemon like Moltres and Volcarona.

Rapid Spin users might see a drop in usage, and I think this new item would really hinder stall and offense, while balance teans would thrive (much like the SR less meta).

Cool idea

 

[JustAMan]

What if Lilligant learned Earth Power?
Basically, she would give stiff competition to Venusaur, being faster and more powerful, tough it will remain vulnerable to priority like Mamoswime's Ice Shard.

Lilligant@LifeOrb
Modest Nature
Ability: Chlorophyll
252SpA / 252 Spe
- Growht / Quiver Dance
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [ Ice ]
-Earth Power

 

[ShootingStarmie]

I dunno, I generally thought Lilligant really liked Sleep Powder + Quiver Dance, as it allows Lilligant to cripple a switch in, and allows it to set up a Quiver Dance. I dont really see what Earth Power is hitting bar Heatran, as Lilligant's main problems are Scizor, Breloom, Dragonite, and Mamoswine.

Sleep Powder is better imo

 

[JustAMan]

Heatran is a fire type.
EP is useful for hitting them and steels like Jirachi

 

[JSND]

What if Mew have Multitype?
Multitype is an ability reserved for none other than Arceus itself, an Uber(duh) with stats spread and movepool so broken, it would still be Uber even if it does not have ability

Setting that aside, Mew, being the Ancestor of all pokemon, this ability kinda fits it. Mew's current ability fit its theme, but its uses is questionable in usage. I don't know why Synchronize does not pass off sleep, but it does not. Fuck Trollfreak. Mew is one of the better target for this change as well, because this won't be so random in a sense that its not a simple "Hey lets make a pokemon that can change type at will, but nothing to support this capability". Boasting a ballanced stats spread of 100 in every single stats(a stats spread that is normally a "Jack of All Trades" but as of now it is merely a "Durable thing with acceptable offense") and movepool that consists of every single TM and move tutors, Mew is one of few pokemon who can make this WORK.

You see, one of the problem that Mew have with those movepool, aside from the obvious "4 MS Syndrome" is the fact that its typing is Psychic. Not only Mew is not as versatile as it could be, Mew is also limited in term of offense because it does not have STAB to boost the power of the right move.

One of the good thing about this is the fact that Mew is not exactly a "Do All" pokemon. Mew's movepool is great, but its not as wide as Smeargle's, which means it misses some stuff that might be too good Lets have Smeargle with 100 in every stats and Multitype. In term of stats, 100 in every stats is good, but BW2 have enough pokemon that floats around 100+ areas. What this change does, in my head, is to provide a Wild Card which can be tweaked to the team's needs. There is some problem with this, since Mew's combination of stats spreads and movepool might kill off the niche of some pokemon that has a particular combination of move, stats, and typing that make it inferior to Mew(off the top of my head, Nasty Pass Celebi is an example), but beetwen the fact that you can only have one Mew, this adds a lot of threats and maybe checks to the existing metagame that should be handled in a different ways at once, and this is the kind of thing that IMO would be a fun addition to the game

EDIT: Already Asked, nevermind

 

[JustAMan]

1st: Zor is removed easily by 'mates
2nd: HP Ice is here for a thing
3rd: Mamo is easily countered by Sun
4rth: Her role is lategame Sweeper / Revenge Killer and ONLY when finds time Setup Sweeper

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Although this might have been already brought up, I think it's a really cool topic.

What if Heracross got U-turn?

Flavor wise it makes a lot of sense. U-turn is a physical Bug type attack, while Heracross is a Bug type with high physical attack. Heracross is one of the best revenge killers in UU, and it often doesn't need it's 4th move slot to be successful (it's often redundant coverage, like Stone Edge or Night slash). U-turn easily wears down it's checks and gains a ton of momentum. Once it's checks have been weakened, Heracross acts as a late game sweeper.

So guys, what do you think?

 

[EJ190]

Well this theorymon was ignored when i posted it, so i'll just post it one more time.
What if psychic was immune to dragon?
Feels like this change would make fairies somewhat obsolete and that gf only created a new type to freshen the game. How chaotic would the metagame be?

 

[JustAMan]

What if Meloetta could start in Pirouette forme?

Meloetta would probably rise to OU pretty quickly, with that incredible base 128 Speed and Attack. Choice Banded sets would probably be the most popular, abusing Close Combat, Return, and coverage moves such as Ice Punch, Stone Edge, and Shadow Claw. Hone Claws would likely be common as well, giving Stone Edge perfect accuracy besides boosting Meloetta's attack.

While the above seems pretty obvious, I think that the more interesting change would be Mixed Relic Song Meloetta gaining some effectiveness as well. When starting off in Pirouette forme, people would generally expect Close Combat spam. But by transforming instead, Meloetta gets the chance to surprise a physical wall and force more switches.

Some viable sets:

Meloetta-Pirouette @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge / Shadow Claw
- U-turn / Shadow Claw / Ice Punch
- Trick / U-turn / Shadow Claw / Fire Punch / ThunderPunch

Meloetta-Pirouette @ Life Orb
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Fire Punch / ThunderPunch / Shadow Claw / Ice Punch
- ThunderPunch / Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Shadow Claw

Meloetta-Pirouette @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Sing
- Hone Claws
- Drain Punch / Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Meloetta-Pirouette @ Life Orb
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 192 Spd / 64 SAtk / 252 Atk
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Relic Song
- Psychic / Stone Edge / Shadow Claw / Ice Punch
- Thunderbolt / Psychic / U-turn

 

[vyomov]

What if Heracross got U-turn?

The Guts set would probably use Toxic Orb instead because U-Turn would re-set the counter, making it viable.

U-Turn also makes heracross a good scarfer as it can u-turn on the switch to a counter

 

[Yuttt]

If Meloetta could start in P form, it could actually use Adamant on the sets, and still outspeed Timid Lati@s, having higher speed and attack. Unfortunately, it has a lacking movepool, and doesn't have the capabilities to OHKO the Lati@s or Keldeo.

252+ Atk Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 234-276 (72.22 - 85.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Meloetta-P Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 214-254 (71.09 - 84.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think that it would not work as a revenge killer, but rather as a late-game cleaner. The banded (or LO) set, however, sounds interesting, with an Adamant nature and the ability to outspeed non-scarf base 111s.

252+ Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 304-359 (94.11 - 111.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 278-330 (92.35 - 109.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Codraroll]

Most of these theorymon are really lacking sense, this isn't the "lets make changes with 0 sense flavour wise just to break shit for no reason" thread, (not talking about chou's post, rattled musketeers would be rlly cool)

Let's break the trend, then:

What if Bulbasaur got Constrict as an Egg move?

Constrict's move description says it involves squeezing the foe with tentacles or vines. Bulbasaur and its evolutions definitely own the latter, so it would make total sense flavour-wise.

Competitively, nobody would use it.

Next?

 

[Mikasa]

Meloetta-P is OU material IMO, that thing is fast and decently powerful, Mach Punch weakness is annoying but it still seems like a pretty good pokemon on theory.

Now for a different kind of theorymon, that is not about one mon but instead a move.

What if Brave Bird had a different name that didn't imply the mon needs to be a bird (idk something like Aerial Atack) and every mon with a Flying-Type got it?

I think it would have huge implications, Flying is an amazing offensive typing (only cursed by terrible distribution of atacks), if I'm not wrong it hits as many targets for neutral damage as dragon in OU and Brave Bird's (Aerial Atack) drawback is arguably smaller than Outrage's, I guess Jirachi would be even more common to tank flying atacks, Landy-T and Gyarados would gain huge boosts, maybe Mence would even drop Outrage in favor of this move.

 

[Schpoonman]

I've been wanting permanent Meloetta-P since she herself was announced. Instant OU, would all but invalidate Terrakion (Rock STAB would be its lone niche).

You're thinking of STABmons, Mikasa. Look in the Other Metagames tab.

 

[Yuttt]

Maybe people would use crobat to beat Meloetta? 2 higher base Spe, and SE STAB...

 

[JustAMan]

Maybe people would use crobat to beat Meloetta? 2 higher base Spe, and SE STAB...

You can revengekill it, but come in Stone Edge

 

[Legitimate Username]

If Meloetta could start in P form, it could actually use Adamant on the sets, and still outspeed Timid Lati@s, having higher speed and attack. Unfortunately, it has a lacking movepool, and doesn't have the capabilities to OHKO the Lati@s or Keldeo.

The problem with this is that if Meloetta-P were to become common, then it would REQUIRE to run Jolly in order to speed tie with itself.
252 Atk Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Meloetta-P: 422-500 (123.39 - 146.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a Life Orb, however, its power is still quite formidable even without Adamant, and it can threaten Latios with U-turn much more than with Ice Punch since it can switch to a counter.

Crobat could potentially threaten Meloetta, however, despite its 4x resistance to Close Combat, it would still be unable to switch in without risk.
252 Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 259-305 (83.27 - 98.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If Meloetta runs a Choice Scarf instead of a Life Orb, then Stone Edge does the same damage.
252 Atk Meloetta-P Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 260-308 (83.6 - 99.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And of course, Relic Mixed would still remain my personal favourite set. Chances are these dedicated Meloetta-P sets would be a lot more common, making it all the more satisfying to bluff a Choice set and then use Relic Song after luring in an unsuspecting physical wall. After all, it would be a shame if an entire half of Meloetta were to go to waste.

And here's another one. What if Rotom (all formes) had the abilities Motor Drive and Prankster? This is pretty easy to rationalize, as almost all of Rotom's flavour is based on motors, even its name. And they're shown to generally have a prankster-like personality.

Motor Drive would certainly help its sweeping capabilities, letting it occasionally boost its somewhat lackluster 86 base speed and providing an electric absorber for Rain teams. Prankster would help its supporting abilities, hitting sweepers with a priority Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp to stop them in their tracks. And of course Levitate would still remain valuable defensively, removing its weakness to the ever-common Earthquake. Rotom-W becomes all the more versatile.

Interestingly, it would still remain somewhat safe against ground type moves, as players may be hesitant to risk wasting a turn with Earthquake against it. However, it would still lose the ability to switch in.

 

[JustAMan]

If Meloetta could start in P form, it could actually use Adamant on the sets, and still outspeed Timid Lati@s, having higher speed and attack. Unfortunately, it has a lacking movepool, and doesn't have the capabilities to OHKO the Lati@s or Keldeo.

252+ Atk Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 234-276 (72.22 - 85.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Meloetta-P Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 214-254 (71.09 - 84.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I think that it would not work as a revenge killer, but rather as a late-game cleaner. The banded (or LO) set, however, sounds interesting, with an Adamant nature and the ability to outspeed non-scarf base 111s.

252+ Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 304-359 (94.11 - 111.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 278-330 (92.35 - 109.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

A revenge killer is assumed to be a think that enters on weakened stuff and kills it.

 

[Yuttt]

A revenge killer is assumed to be a think that enters on weakened stuff and kills it.

I suppose that's right, as it is still better than Scarf Keldeo in many situations, as Ice Punch>HP Ice, and great STABs. I completely forgot about Return, for example. It can beat more Scarfers than Keldeo, and has better Speed and Attack.

The problem with this is that if Meloetta-P were to become common, then it would REQUIRE to run Jolly in order to speed tie with itself.
252 Atk Meloetta-P Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Meloetta-P: 422-500 (123.39 - 146.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO

With a Life Orb, however, its power is still quite formidable even without Adamant, and it can threaten Latios with U-turn much more than with Ice Punch since it can switch to a counter.

Crobat could potentially threaten Meloetta, however, despite its 4x resistance to Close Combat, it would still be unable to switch in without risk.
252 Atk Life Orb Meloetta-P Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 259-305 (83.27 - 98.07%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If Meloetta runs a Choice Scarf instead of a Life Orb, then Stone Edge does the same damage.
252 Atk Meloetta-P Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 260-308 (83.6 - 99.03%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And of course, Relic Mixed would still remain my personal favourite set. Chances are these dedicated Meloetta-P sets would be a lot more common, making it all the more satisfying to bluff a Choice set and then use Relic Song after luring in an unsuspecting physical wall. After all, it would be a shame if an entire half of Meloetta were to go to waste.

I've been looking a bit, and I can't find a generic situation where Adamant is obviously better than Jolly, but beating opposing Meloetta-Ps is the only reason to possibly run Jolly, so I wouldn't bother running Jolly, unless everyone did. It's a downhill slope...

 

[Arash]

Below is a list of notable pokemon that Meloetta will outspeed by going Jolly instead of Adamant:

Azelf
Raikou
Starmie
Alakazam
Dugtrio
Weavile
Sceptile
Serperior

The bolded pokemon are ones that will rape you with STAB Psychic moves. Additionally, all of them except Raikou and Dugrio are hit SE with U-turn, which would be on every Meloetta set (and Dugtrio isn't likely to live through one U-turn anyway).

Jolly vs. Adamant comes down to outspeeding these mons and U-turning away (or speed tying with other Meloettas) vs. getting OHKOd / dented.

 

[JustAMan]

What if splash becomes a phisycal water move with 120 power and 90 accuracy in rain?

 

[dwarfstar]

That wouldn't make sense. The Japanese name of the move translates to "hop", which explains why things like Hoppip and Buneary can use it.