It's like you think I care about who responds to me or whether I get responses.All but one way of dealing with it requires you to have the proper conditions up ahead of time, or be in at the same time. That is not a counter. The only one you have mentioned that is a counter is Safeguard. You can't swap whism into a swagplay mon without risking confusion and to which the game becomes a 50-50. I am sorry, but I will not respond to you again unless you actually bring something logic to the table. If not, I wish you a good day sir.
I agree with all of your posts and adding to that there are Pokemon with other abilities that counter the strategy. Magic Guard, Synchronize (Not a full counter but it hurts them), a cleric, etc.It's like you think I care about who responds to me or whether I get responses.
I also mentioned Espeon, same as half the people in this thread providing solid points for one side or the other.
Be creative.
Actually, they're not 100% because of Swagger. Thundurus is the "safest", but you can be caught with a predicted Swagger on the switch. Magic Coat can also be PP-stalled, and Sableye can priority-taunt Deo-D.Let's get a list of counters to this strategy, 100% of the time:
- Thunudurus-I
- Rotom-W
- Deoxys-Defense (Taunt/Magic Coat)
And not everything can be countered 100%. That's the beauty of Pokemon, where you take what you have and make the plays to get the upperhand.Actually, they're not 100% because of Swagger. Thundurus is the "safest", but you can be caught with a predicted Swagger on the switch. Magic Coat can also be PP-stalled, and Sableye can priority-taunt Deo-D.
The magic bouncers could be added to here, but again, they're not 100%-counters. Foul Play does a number on them, even Absol because it usually is physically biased and has low defence. STAB turns these into 2HKO's, as I've mentioned before.
What a bunch of bull. The gimmicks should be deleted, Rotom should be "iffy" because there's always a chance it could hit itself in confusion over and over and over, and Deoxys can played around by alternating Foul play with swagger. My money's almost always on Klefki.Let's get a list of counters to this strategy, 100% of the time:
Then, we have iffy checks:
- Thunudurus-I
- Rotom-W
- Deoxys-Defense (Taunt/Magic Coat)
Then, just gimmicks:
- Tornadus-I
- Sableye
- Gliscor
- Smeargle
- Electrode
- Numel
- Avalugg
But it is a numel.I object to Chesnaught's classification of numel as a gimmick. It 100% counters swagplay, due to its immunity to both luck conditions as well as ability to laugh at foul play and defeat klefki and other swagplayers reliably.
not to mention that you can just mega evo into a camerupt while in battle, taking away any argument LC could make about this strategyI object to Chesnaught's classification of numel as a gimmick. It 100% counters swagplay, due to its immunity to both luck conditions as well as ability to laugh at foul play and defeat klefki and other swagplayers reliably.
Balsty
I'm getting sick and tired of you just calling everyone either unskilled or stupid or whatever post #462 called us.
There's no "skillful" way to counter swag play. You either have a thunderus, or play guessing games with Espeon, or pray you get lucky.
If a Klefki is in play, I have to predict if my opponent will predict a switch in with Espeon. Usually they don't cuz skilled players rarely use Klefki and Espeon KO's him pretty easy. If he does, and I do switch, Espeon loses almost half its health. I can't stay in because if I did he'd die in 2 turns, but I can't switch out or some poor pokemon on my team would have to deal with the Keys.
Those are 2 pokemon that can handle Klefki, and one relies on me having superior prediction skills to my opponent. Since I fully expect the "Git Gud" crap, I'll go ahead and let you have those 2, but those are the only 2 in OU that reliably work.
What a bunch of bull. The gimmicks should be deleted, Rotom should be "iffy" because there's always a chance it could hit itself in confusion over and over and over, and Deoxys can played around by alternating Foul play with swagger. My money's almost always on Klefki.
Besides Thunduros (IDC about spelling) and Espeon (sort of), I don't see what the heck people are talking about with "counters"
But how is Gliscor iffy, at least against Purloin, Liepard, and Klefki.Let's get a list of counters to this strategy, 100% of the time:
Then, we have iffy checks:
- Thunudurus-I
- Rotom-W
- Deoxys-Defense (Taunt/Magic Coat)
Then, just gimmicks:
- Tornadus-I
- Sableye
- Gliscor
- Smeargle
- Electrode
- Numel
- Avalugg
He was saying HP fire, and I just didn't feel like arguingThe first part is correct, but Espeon?
0 Atk Klefki Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 106-126 (38.9 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
No, Espeon can't do shit in return.
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 104-124 (32.7 - 38.9%) -- 9.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recoveryHe was saying HP fire, and I just didn't feel like arguing
No.This is just a crazy thought. But there is another factor here causing a problem. Duplicate leftovers.
If duplicate items weren't allowed, would this be such a problem?
hence the guessing games. Espeon will 3HKO faster, but needs a safe switch in.252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Klefki: 104-124 (32.7 - 38.9%) -- 9.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Klefki: 148-176 (46.5 - 55.3%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If you hit it on the switch, then you lose your Espeon in the process.
By that logic let's ban Thunder Wave, Glare, Stun Spore and any other Paralysis moves not only have a chance of preventing Pokemon from attacking, but it also slows the Pokemon's speed too, making it an equally big luck mess! Even worse, Paralysis doesn't wear off!Ban Swagger, Flatter, Confuse Ray, and Supersonic under a Confusion Clause, as well as any virtually synonymous moves I might've forgotten. Same concept as the Evasion Clause, except it plays out a bit differently. You can work around both effects, but they're both often enough just a giant luck mess.
Foul Play, Prankster, etc. are just ways of magnifying the fundamental threat of confusion. They are not the problem. There's no need for a complex ban when we already have a simple ban that fits existing ban philosophy.
Hence the Doubles suspect test on Sleep Clause. Personally, I find it ironic that we have that and then on the other hand we have SwagPlay banning discussion.And not everything can be countered 100%. That's the beauty of Pokemon, where you take what you have and make the plays to get the upperhand.