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This response does a great job of explaining something that honestly turns me away from playing the current generation of OU (and by extension Ubers) a lot of the time, and that's how easy it can be to over or under-estimate the viability of an unexplored prospect. Don't get me wrong, playing current generation battles can still be very enjoyable, but when a generation is in its prime, few things annoy me more as a much more casual player than thinking I've discovered some absolutely busted strats that in practice get shut down faster than a Choice Scarf Regieleki. But on the other side of the coin, you have Pokémon that do end up being great later down the line that people didn't think would be very good at all at first glance.
Again, I have nothing against this design philosophy. It's a natural part of competitive play in any series, after all. As annoying as over-estimating a cool Pokémon can be, there's a certain joy that comes from learning from my own mistakes as a player both in battles and the team builder that encourages me to research more about the metagame once things settle down. It just so happens that I find it much easier to do that with Past Gens is all. :)
i apologize if what I wrote made you think that I was attacking you or shutting you down. scale shot is still threatening, don't get me wrong, but thinking that it's breaking koraidon is wrong; besides, natdex banned koraidon not only because scale shot, but because of z moves. z dragon allowed korai to ohko its only check in hooh and subsequently, win the game. natdex also has every Mon in the game available, and thus, more threats. what I mean by this is, by using slots to check certain threats (say, xerneas, primal Groudon, etc) you are forgoing slots that (in regular play, aka no natdex) we can use to check koraidon. all of this makes koraidon a "worse", more broken presence in natdex, while being (even if still the best Mon, and extremely threatening) comparatively worse in regular Ubers.
Oh, you're completely fine. I wasn't upset. :) And if it helps anything, I do agree with why Koraidon was "worse" (i.e. more broken) in NatDex. Seriously, why did they think letting it use Z-Moves was okay-
now the people getting bodied by koraidon on standard ubers ladder on the other hand, they might be upset lol
i apologize if what I wrote made you think that I was attacking you or shutting you down. scale shot is still threatening, don't get me wrong, but thinking that it's breaking koraidon is wrong; besides, natdex banned koraidon not only because scale shot, but because of z moves. z dragon allowed korai to ohko its only check in hooh and subsequently, win the game. natdex also has every Mon in the game available, and thus, more threats. what I mean by this is, by using slots to check certain threats (say, xerneas, primal Groudon, etc) you are forgoing slots that (in regular play, aka no natdex) we can use to check koraidon. all of this makes koraidon a "worse", more broken presence in natdex, while being (even if still the best Mon, and extremely threatening) comparatively worse in regular Ubers.
wasn't ban-worthy with (which was the main Z-Crystal it ran), it was ban-worthy because of Scale Shot. Running the main set, it could be beaten with and even Tera Fairy pokemon like . The lack of Flare Blitz meant you couldn't nuke them with anything either, as Flame Charge didn't do much.
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 79-93 (17.7 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 156-184 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Zygarde in Sun: 72-85 (17.1 - 20.2%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Zygarde in Sun: 142-168 (33.8 - 40%) -- 33.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
The lack of terastilization because of also limited what it could do. Without Tera-Fire it can be burned, and no longer resists Fairy, which is really important for setting up. It needed Flame Charge because without it, it would be outsped and KO'd by not only , but also , , and even the occasional . Speaking of , it wasn't a threat either, as it didn't hit extremely hard, and the moveset it ran was abusable (Low Kick walled by Ghosts and Fairies, Flare Blitz walled by Dragons, and both and , Dragon Claw walled by Fairies and , U-Turn isn't KOing anything anyways).
Scale Shot however, took Koraidon too far. It gave it the speed boost it needed to outspeed (or speed-tie at least) with the pokemon that could revenge-kill it, which meant it didn't have to run Flame Charge anymore. This meant it could run Flare Blitz, which hits and Tera-Fairy pretty hard. It can also terastalize again, which makes it even stronger. Scale Shot by the way, is able to threaten and , which could try to stop it.
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 188-222 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 374-441 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Zygarde in Sun: 170-201 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Zygarde in Sun: 339-399 (80.9 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The only relevant pokemon that can switch into Koraidon after it gets a swords dance is , but it's restricted into stall due to it's passive nature. But even isn't that reliable, because Low Kick can still do solid damage to it.
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 177-208 (35.1 - 41.2%) -- 72% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 177-208 (35.1 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Although, what you said about NatDex having "more threats" is somewhat true, as pokemon like and aren't very good in this tier without heavy support, but I don't feel like they're better answers to Koraidon compared to or even Tera Fairy
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 93-111 (30.5 - 36.5%) -- approx. 50% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 155-185 (50.9 - 60.8%) -- approx. 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 300-360 (98.6 - 118.4%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
This guy does a lot of damage:
252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Koraidon: 289-341 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zacian-Crowned: 170-201 (52.3 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's budget Mewtwo and I think that's enough for C-, the only reason you have to use Darkrai is if you're already using Mewtwo and they actually work pretty well together.
Ice Spinner is super good and the Speed tier is good for a Scarf mon. Surging Strikes is tricky to use cuz of Sun so you generally want to focus more on the other 3 moves. Speed control is always good (Scarf is the best item ever) and the bulk allows Urshifu to switch in. Fire and Steel resist are also very useful for rounding out cores defensively.
Urshifu -> D-
Literally worse Urshifu-Rapid, I tried with this guy many times and I had more success with Regieleki (this guy is bad why is it not D).
This is definitely the strongest out of all of these. Shoutout to LouisIX for the set (only set here that's not mine). Body Press also ignores Intimidate from Lando-T. Not only that but it actually has a ton of defensive utility and with Tera it sets up on literally ever single physical attacker. NOW FOR SOME CALCS! All of these are after only ONE IRON DEFENSE (and getting two is super easy)!
DEFENSE:
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fire Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned in Sun: 186-218 (51.6 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned in Sun: 124-146 (34.4 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO +1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 100-118 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Earthquake vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 96-114 (26.6 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
OFFENSE: +3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Koraidon: 334-394 (97.9 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 336-396 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Ground: 322-381 (84.5 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Behemoth Bash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Fairy: 218-258 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
+3 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned Body Press vs. 248 HP / 136+ DefArceus-Ground: 262-309 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
FUNNY:
252+ Atk Sword of Ruin Chien-Pao Sucker Punch vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 18-22 (5 - 6.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 18-22 (5 - 6.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Clodsire Earthquake vs. +3 140 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 42-50 (11.6 - 13.8%) -- possible 8HKO
Hello all! Here's our second viability rankings thread to represent the post-home metagame.
This is a list of the seventy-two viable Pokemon in SV Ubers, sorted top-to-bottom from most to least viable.
Thread Rules
- Post intelligently. One-liners saying things like "X should be Y rank" without context or supporting evidence are likely to be disregarded or deleted.
- Be civil when debating other users. Any flaming will not be tolerated.
- This thread is for discussion of the viability rankings only. Those wanting to ask simple questions about why something is ranked or how to build a team should look to our SQSA for guidance.
- Be aware of our subforum rules and the global forum rules — they all apply here, too.
The VR Council
The VR Council is a group of experienced players selected to assess any new nominations from the community and vote on them before they become accepted into the rankings. This same council has the same jurisdiction over the upcoming Sample Teams thread. The VR Council also can internally nominate changes to the thread — it then votes on these, just as an individual user would in a post in this thread. We will document all changes to the Viability Rankings in the form of update posts, where votes and associated reasoning are collected in a spreadsheet. Be on the lookout for these.
I honestly think defensive Arceus water should be moved from B-A. It checks zacian-C and koradion with will-o-wisp and can beat Scarf miradion with Tera ground. It can also recover off Miradons Draco Meteor
VR update time! We did the first full VR update of DLC 1, sheet is here with all the individual votes. Feel free to ask any questions about changes or continue with nominations, or for simpler questions specifically about why something is ranked where it is and not the changes refer to the SQSA thread.
Rises: Kyogre A (1) --> A+ (4) Flutter Mane A- (2) --> A (2) Arceus B+ --> A (1) Calyrex-Ice B --> B+ Ribombee C+ --> B- Alomomola C --> C+ Glimmora C -->C+ Gliscor C --> B+ Great Tusk C --> C+ Volcarona D --> C- Zamazenta-Crowned D --> C- Iron Treads UR --> C-
Drops: Zacian-Crowned S (3) --> A+ (1) Ting Lu A+ (1) --> A- (1) Groudon A (2) --> A- (3) Giratina-Origin A (3) --> B+ Skeledirge A (4) --> B+ Landorus-Therian A (5) --> A- (4) Mewtwo B+ --> B- Rayquaza B+ --> B Corviknight B --> C+ Chien Pao B- --> C+ Chi Yu C+ --> C Dondozo C+ --> C Gothitelle C+ --> C Palkia-Origin C+ --> C Shaymin-Sky C+ --> C Cresselia C+ --> C- Ditto C --> C- Hatterene C --> C- Meowscarada C --> C- Samurott-Hisui C --> C- Froslass C --> UR Arceus-Dark C- --> D Palkia C- --> D Urshifu C- --> D Enamorus C- --> UR Garcanacl C- --> UR Greninja C- --> UR
VR update time! We did the first full VR update of DLC 1, sheet is here with all the individual votes. Feel free to ask any questions about changes or continue with nominations, or for simpler questions specifically about why something is ranked where it is and not the changes refer to the SQSA thread.
Rises: Kyogre A (1) --> A+ (4) Flutter Mane A- (2) --> A (2) Arceus B+ --> A (1) Calyrex-Ice B --> B+ Ribombee C+ --> B- Alomomola C --> C+ Glimmora C -->C+ Gliscor C --> B+ Great Tusk C --> C+ Volcarona D --> C- Zamazenta-Crowned D --> C- Iron Treads UR --> C-
Drops: Zacian-Crowned S (3) --> A+ (1) Ting Lu A+ (1) --> A- (1) Groudon A (2) --> A- (3) Giratina-Origin A (3) --> B+ Skeledirge A (4) --> B+ Landorus-Therian A (5) --> A- (4) Mewtwo B+ --> B- Rayquaza B+ --> B Chien Pao B- --> C+ Chi Yu C+ --> C Dondozo C+ --> C Gothitelle C+ --> C Palkia-Origin C+ --> C Shaymin-Sky C+ --> C Cresselia C+ --> C- Ditto C --> C- Hatterene C --> C- Meowscarada C --> C- Samurott-Hisui C --> C- Froslass C --> UR Arceus-Dark C- --> D Palkia C- --> D Urshifu C- --> D Enamorus C- --> UR Garcanacl C- --> UR Greninja C- --> UR
Can we get a collective explanation as to why Zacian-Crowned was dropped to A+? Many members of the community and I are very confused as to why this happened and no explanation was fornally given.
While in the Ubers Discord it was mentioned that the vote on Zacian-C dropping was unanimous, some people could argue that such a consensus is divisive at best.
Personally, I think this change is a big deal and talks a lot about what the council's take on the state of the metagame currently is. Because of this, I believe a formal explanation is warranted.
VR update time! We did the first full VR update of DLC 1, sheet is here with all the individual votes. Feel free to ask any questions about changes or continue with nominations, or for simpler questions specifically about why something is ranked where it is and not the changes refer to the SQSA thread.
Rises: Kyogre A (1) --> A+ (4) Flutter Mane A- (2) --> A (2) Arceus B+ --> A (1) Calyrex-Ice B --> B+ Ribombee C+ --> B- Alomomola C --> C+ Glimmora C -->C+ Gliscor C --> B+ Great Tusk C --> C+ Volcarona D --> C- Zamazenta-Crowned D --> C- Iron Treads UR --> C-
Drops: Zacian-Crowned S (3) --> A+ (1) Ting Lu A+ (1) --> A- (1) Groudon A (2) --> A- (3) Giratina-Origin A (3) --> B+ Skeledirge A (4) --> B+ Landorus-Therian A (5) --> A- (4) Mewtwo B+ --> B- Rayquaza B+ --> B Chien Pao B- --> C+ Chi Yu C+ --> C Dondozo C+ --> C Gothitelle C+ --> C Palkia-Origin C+ --> C Shaymin-Sky C+ --> C Cresselia C+ --> C- Ditto C --> C- Hatterene C --> C- Meowscarada C --> C- Samurott-Hisui C --> C- Froslass C --> UR Arceus-Dark C- --> D Palkia C- --> D Urshifu C- --> D Enamorus C- --> UR Garcanacl C- --> UR Greninja C- --> UR
to add to this, iron defense body press is very tough for physical offense teams to beat. without miraidon or a ghost-type, after an iron defense zamazenta can deal heavy damage, if not outright sweep, with the correct moveset and tera. resisting ekiller's only stab and zacian's strongest stab also contribute to this. at +3 def, koraidon unboosted deals ~30 with flare blitz and low kick.
Yes, but they weren’t ranked that way because “they’re all arceus”, they were ranked that way because a good few of them are unviable. Talpr0ne’s point was that it would be ridiculous to rank all of the arceus forms together, and you didn’t address that
(and I know Ogerpon forms being ranked as one is just temporary, I just wanted to point out the holes in this logic)
VR update time! We did the first full VR update of DLC 1, sheet is here with all the individual votes. Feel free to ask any questions about changes or continue with nominations, or for simpler questions specifically about why something is ranked where it is and not the changes refer to the SQSA thread.
Rises: Kyogre A (1) --> A+ (4) Flutter Mane A- (2) --> A (2) Arceus B+ --> A (1) Calyrex-Ice B --> B+ Ribombee C+ --> B- Alomomola C --> C+ Glimmora C -->C+ Gliscor C --> B+ Great Tusk C --> C+ Volcarona D --> C- Zamazenta-Crowned D --> C- Iron Treads UR --> C-
Drops: Zacian-Crowned S (3) --> A+ (1) Ting Lu A+ (1) --> A- (1) Groudon A (2) --> A- (3) Giratina-Origin A (3) --> B+ Skeledirge A (4) --> B+ Landorus-Therian A (5) --> A- (4) Mewtwo B+ --> B- Rayquaza B+ --> B Chien Pao B- --> C+ Chi Yu C+ --> C Dondozo C+ --> C Gothitelle C+ --> C Palkia-Origin C+ --> C Shaymin-Sky C+ --> C Cresselia C+ --> C- Ditto C --> C- Hatterene C --> C- Meowscarada C --> C- Samurott-Hisui C --> C- Froslass C --> UR Arceus-Dark C- --> D Palkia C- --> D Urshifu C- --> D Enamorus C- --> UR Garcanacl C- --> UR Greninja C- --> UR
metagame has become more volatile to it with ogre / flutter rising along with gliscor. it can no longer check korai + caly-i as safely thanks to both scale shot and high horsepower respectively (both moves 2hko dirge), also teraing dirge to beat scale shot (tera fairy) warrants secondary checks to something like zacian
Aside from what Taka said, Zacian itself dropped in viability, and Dirge was one of the most popular Zacian check. Tera Fire Koraidon Scale Shot Koraidon uses Dirge as setup fodder, as all Dirge can do is recover. Essentially, Dirge is no longer a good check to the best Mon, and one of the best mons it checked is no longer as good
Aside from what Taka said, Zacian itself dropped in viability, and Dirge was one of the most popular Zacian check. Tera Fire Koraidon Scale Shot Koraidon uses Dirge as setup fodder, as all Dirge can do is recover. Essentially, Dirge is no longer a good check to the best Mon, and one of the best mons it checked is no longer as good
just a heads up, zacian's drop in viability doesnt mean its any worse than before, it might even be better than before. Its just that mirai and korai are viewed as more meta-defining than Zacian.
Hi, just wanted to give my take on some mons in the meta and where I think they should be ranked in the future:
to A-
As edgar mentioned in Uberscord recently, clod has de-frauded himself, and I think he's right. Yea, it's cool to hate on clod because he's passive and just sits there and clicks Spikes, but if anything, the meta's post-DLC shift to a more offensive one benefits clod in the sense that its role compression became even more important than before. Especially with Kyogre now sitting in A+, Clod's ability to just straight up wall most Ogre sets is an incredibly useful one, not to mention that clod combines that with dealing with most Miraidon sets quite well. Clod also has the important role of being a grounded Poison-type, which can be critical against glimmora HO and it allows Clod to sit on Etern, which is something few mons can claim to do, not to mention being a great option against many Flutter Mane which lack Psyshock. Clod's also seen high usage and win rates in SCL which makes it deserving of the A- imo.
to A-
I think the drop to Skeledirge was a bit too unfair. Yes, it viability definitely took a hit due to Scale Shot Koraidon and High Horsepower Caly-I being able to break past it now, but I would caution against preemptively dropping it way too far. It does a fantastic job checking almost all Zacian-C sets and Unaware still lets it have a ton of use against Korai and Caly-I, preventing them from snowballing once they SD up. Ekiller, while being able to Taunt Skele, still doesn't like dealing with it, as Skele spamming Torch Song can easily rack up damage or flat out KO Ekillers that are forced to Taunt it to prevent a burn.
The main thing with using Skele now is that you just want to have more back-up options than you did before when dealing with Koraidon. Just having a Skeledirge in team preview will often force their dice Koraidon to use raw Scale Shots whenever they can, which can easily be taken advantage of with Fairy-type teammates like Arc-Fairy or Flutter Mane. Skele's also shown pretty good use and win rates in SCL so I think rumors of its demise were overstated.
I've also seen too many teams rely on Lando-T being their sole physical check, which is an issue IMO as it gets way too easily overloaded (and has some terrible SCL winrates too btw). Run some real checks to physical mons!
to A-
Not much to say here, glisc has had some big usage and its Toxic, Spikes, and Poison Heal makes it a huge threat to most defensive mons in the tier, and it has just enough of a defensive niche when combined with poison heal to justify its place on a lot of teams. Dealing with it on balance teams is a gigantic pain without a Gliscor of your own or Corviknight. Just don't rely on Gliscor being your sole check to anything, it's bulk is not actually thaaat good!
to B+
I think Arceus-Water is probably the best Arceus form outside of the big 3 right now. While it doesn't have the offensive power of those forms, changes in the post-DLC meta gave Arceus-Water's unique defensive profile more highlight than before. Perhaps the biggest change was the addition of High Horsepower to Calyrex-I's arsenal, allowing it to 2HKO Skeledirge and deal with Zacian much easier. With how offensive the meta became, Caly-I's trick room set can be a huge menace to HO and BO alike, as these teams often lack a good check to it. Thus, Arceus-Water can come in and deal with Caly-I quite easily, taking little from either Glacial Lance or High Horsepower. This defensive profile also comes in handy against Koraidon's Flare Blitz and Zacian-C's Behemoth Blade, and while both of these threats can potentially break past Arceus-Water, it does allow Arceus-Water to form a great physically defensive core when paired with mons like Lando-T and Skeledirge. As a support Arceus form, it has good advantages in dealing with Rayquaza well and not inviting in Gliscor for free. It's CM set, while often overshadowed by Kyogre, should not be slept on either, as Arceus-Water can combine its useful defensive profile mentioned above and its access to reliable recovery to give it a niche that Kyogre can't do. It's also seen some decent use in SCL so I think the B+ rise is fair.
to C+
You may be going "manaphy wtf?" but I want to tell you that I'm not particularly advocating for defensive Treads. No, I think Treads is tied with Glimmora for best non-webs HO lead.
There's a couple of reasons for this. For one, with the addition of Scale Shot Koraidon, a ton of leads that were viable before took huge hits, like Froslass and Meowscarada. Any dice Koraidon can simply OHKO these leads through Focus Sash. Ribombee, meanwhile, currently flourishes as a great Sticky Webs setter thanks to it being immune to the aforementioned Scale Shot in addition to being faster than Taunt Arceus.
This is where Iron Treads comes into play. As a lead, it can set Rocks and also spin away the opponents hazards, including Ribombee's webs, without much issue. Glimmora can do the same, but its much more likely that the webs teams has a Steel-type (Zacian-C) to spinblock the Mortal Spin than them having a Ghost-type to spinblock the Rapid Spin. Treads also has access to Bulldoze which can set-up teammates for easier boosting, as well as Endeavor which can easily catch people off guard. Try the set and I think you'll like it:
to C/C-
A kate invention that I think is actually pretty decent, Diancie walls the hell out of Koraidon due to Low Kick only being base 20 power against Diancie (yes it's that light). Unlike Dachsbun, Diancie has access to good moves as well, like Spikes and Encore, which prevent it from being too passive, and Diancie has some use against other mons like Ekiller and Caly-I too. The only thing is that you need to use it with a good Zacian-C check, but with that covered I think it does its role pretty well. And no I don't want to hear anything about how much +2 CC does to it, there's no way you are running CC!
to Something?
Ok unironically I think this is pretty slept on, richard just annihilated with it in SCL and it can do huge work with Last Respects. Don't think you're too good to not lose to it!
Just out of curiosity, would someone like to explain to me why (I don’t know how to do the tiny sprites) is in A-? I would have thought it would be ranked decently lower than that. I understand it might have solid matchup potential against Koraidon and physical Arceus variants, but especially with Tera taken into account it doesn’t seem like this Pokémon would be this good in the meta right now. I just remember it lost a lot going into Gen 9 and in such a fast-paced metagame, it may struggle to keep up throughout the course of a battle on account of its lower Speed than its competitors for a team slot. Speaking of which, Gliscor is also ranked on this VR and while I can understand its placement, I still wanted to mention it exists as an alternative Ground/Flying option.
Just out of curiosity, would someone like to explain to me why (I don’t know how to do the tiny sprites) is in A-? I would have thought it would be ranked decently lower than that. I understand it might have solid matchup potential against Koraidon and physical Arceus variants, but especially with Tera taken into account it doesn’t seem like this Pokémon would be this good in the meta right now. I just remember it lost a lot going into Gen 9 and in such a fast-paced metagame, it may struggle to keep up throughout the course of a battle on account of its lower Speed than its competitors for a team slot. Speaking of which, Gliscor is also ranked on this VR and while I can understand its placement, I still wanted to mention it exists as an alternative Ground/Flying option.
It's all about role-compression. Landorus gives you a very valuable Ground immunity in addition to slowing down Koraidon and physical Arceus variants like you said but it also helps against Zacian-Crowned and Groudon. And while it is true that Landorus has recieved nerfs, it also got Taunt which is a very useful move. Stealth Rock, U-turn and Earthquake are still amazing tools. So in just one slot you have a Ground immunity, check for physical attackers, a Ground type (to punish and dissuade Choice Miraidon from clicking Electric moves) and a Stealth Rock setter. Intimidate is also really really good.
It's all about role-compression. Landorus gives you a very valuable Ground immunity in addition to slowing down Koraidon and physical Arceus variants like you said but it also helps against Zacian-Crowned and Groudon. And while it is true that Landorus has recieved nerfs, it also got Taunt which is a very useful move. Stealth Rock, U-turn and Earthquake are still amazing tools. So in just one slot you have a Ground immunity, check for physical attackers, a Ground type (to punish and dissuade Choice Miraidon from clicking Electric moves) and a Stealth Rock setter. Intimidate is also really really good.
all of this is true, and just wanna add that current meta is a bit worse off for lando as scale shot makes Lando less reliable vs Koraidon, resurgence of caly-i that takes advantage of lando-t, and gliscor which doesnt have the same physdef capabilities but has other utility / longevity / toxic / spikes. still quite good, just a bit worse off than pre-dlc
To avoid making this a one liner, what made Origin Giratina drop? Isn't it like the only viable defogger in the tier until Ho oh hopefully returns? And with Tera, isn't it the only answer to ground Arceus?
wasn't ban-worthy with 
(which was the main Z-Crystal it ran), it was ban-worthy because of Scale Shot. Running the main 
and even Tera Fairy pokemon like 
. The lack of Flare Blitz meant you couldn't nuke them with anything either, as Flame Charge didn't do much.
, 
, 
and even the occasional 
. Speaking of 
and both 
and 
, Dragon Claw walled by Fairies and 
, U-Turn isn't KOing anything anyways).
, but it's restricted into stall due to it's passive nature. But even 
and 
aren't very good in this tier without heavy support, but I don't feel like they're better answers to Koraidon compared to 
Miraidon
Ting-Lu
Arceus-Ground
Kyogre
Groudon
Giratina-Origin
Landorus-Therian
Eternatus
Flutter Mane
Arceus
Kingambit
Mewtwo
Rayquaza
Arceus-Ghost
Arceus-Grass
Arceus-Water
Calyrex-Ice
Clodsire
Corviknight
Grimmsnarl
Arceus-Poison
Chien-Pao
Walking Wake
Basculegion
Chi-Yu
Cresselia
Gothitelle
Iron Bundle
Palkia-Origin
Ribombee
Skaymin-Sky
Alomomola
Ditto
Froslass
Giratina
Glimmora
Gliscor
Great Tusk
Hatterene
Meowscarada
Orthworm
Samurott-Hisui
Arceus-Dark
Arceus-Steel
Blissey
Enamorus
Garganacl
Greninja
Ogerpon
Palkia
Urshifu
Annihilape
Arceus-Bug
Arceus-Dragon
Arceus-Electric
Arceus-Fighting
Arceus-Fire
Arceus-Flying
Arceus-Ice
Arceus-Psychic
Arceus-Rock
Baxcalibur
Darkrai
Dialga
Dialga-Origin
Espathra
Landorus
Magearna
Palafin
Regieleki
Spectrier
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Ursaluna-Bloodmoon
Volcarona
Zacian
Zamazenta-Crowned
Iron Treads UR --> C-
to C/C-
) the current sprite is the teal mask form.
(I don’t know how to do the tiny sprites) is in A-? I would have thought it would be ranked decently lower than that. I understand it might have solid matchup potential against Koraidon and physical Arceus variants, but especially with Tera taken into account it doesn’t seem like this Pokémon would be this good in the meta right now. I just remember it lost a lot going into Gen 9 and in such a fast-paced metagame, it may struggle to keep up throughout the course of a battle on account of its lower Speed than its competitors for a team slot. Speaking of which, Gliscor is also ranked on this VR and while I can understand its placement, I still wanted to mention it exists as an alternative Ground/Flying option.
