In general, our practices regarding QBs have improved a lot thanks to community feedback and policing this generation. I’m very excited for the upcoming suspect and the future of SV OU tiering.
I think this overlooks a lot of the factors that make Gambit problematic in the tier.I disagree; in all honesty, I don't think Gambit is even the best Dark-type in OU right now ( pls leave me alone with your Taunt shenanigans). Kingambit has clear counterplay, an exploitable defensive profile along with ways to take advantage of its overreliance on Sucker Punch and Swords Dance. It's slow and powerful with great STAB priority, but not anywhere near broken. I could see arguments for Kingambit being overwhelming in DLC1 where counterplay was much more limited, but in DLC2 the options to handle Kingambit are aplenty and the meta is nowhere near as kind to it now as it was back in DLC1.
I totally agree that there's counterplay. But then you have to ask yourself, if it's so slow and exploitable, then why is it #1 usage? Clearly it's able to be successful despite those drawbacks. That's because it's a reliable uno reverse card to play at the end of the game to get free wins in otherwise unwinnable scenarios. You can play bad all game and still win. The guessing game is heavily stacked in Gambit's favor, so you'd be dumb to not abuse it. And I think that's what makes it by far the most unhealthy part of the current metagame.Kingambit has clear counterplay, an exploitable defensive profile along with ways to take advantage of its overreliance on Sucker Punch and Swords Dance.
I fucking hate the youtube comments of poketubers. Like for fuck's sake, THAT IS NOT THE ONLY THING IN THE UNIVERSE RIGHT NOW. Get over it.I can't wait for the yt comment section when the inevitable gouging fire suspect to be all complaints cause "gouging beats kingambit and gholdengo but FINCH WANTS TO BAN IT INSTEAD??? The OU clown show clearly is being payed off by big pharma since they REFUSE to ban them!!!111!1!111"
Even in a case like this where the ban is almost assured, I think finch is right and a suspect is the right call. Will it be relatively boring? Yes, but it will be democratic.In general, our practices regarding QBs have improved a lot thanks to community feedback and policing this generation. I’m very excited for the upcoming suspect and the future of SV OU tiering.
we might actually have more! it'd make a lot of sense for game freak to push the release of gen 10 back to 2026 to coincide with the 30th anniversary of the franchise, so we could potentially have this meta for 3 years instead of 2Luckily we have this year and some to potentially make the meta more playable, hopefully starting with a Gouging Fire suspect/ban.
I agree it would make sense, but lets be real. When have game freak's decisions made sense?we might actually have more! it'd make a lot of sense for game freak to push the release of gen 10 back to 2026 to coincide with the 30th anniversary of the franchise, so we could potentially have this meta for 3 years instead of 2
Y'know what. I'm gonna say it. Qualified players have genuinely just given up and have accepted that this gen is the "put like 2 fighting types and 5 boots pokemon on your team" generation. It's like a fucking societal ill that's been present for 2 centuries at this point so why bother fixing it because the lay person wouldn't appreciate the difference!Interesting how Ghold and Gambit both received notably higher scores from general voters as opposed to qualified ones.
This is my exact stance, half measures aren't good enough, it has to go, and I'm tired of this sunk cost fallacy people are falling into with it. It's ultimately not worth keeping in singles. I'm tired of people like blunder saying that it should stay because this is the metagame, when we could be playing a better one without tera.Alright, I won't mention Tera in the future since it seems like people want some kind of action but don't want it gone either. In my opinion, this is a bit hypocritical as I don't believe a half measure is good enough concerning Tera. It should either be banned, or stay as it is as far as I'm concerned and I have never seen an argument making me believe the metagame would be better with Tera preview or Tera Blast ban. Tera Blast is fine and the only really strong abusers are Kingambit and Volcarona.
I would argue that in the case of Kingambit, Tera Blast isn't a really good option since until you Tera you basically only have two attacking moves with one being useless if your opponent doesn't attack.
In the case of Volcarona I believe it is extremely unealthy and matchup fishy but it has always been the case and it's only pokemon that I believe is too strong with Tera Blast. When only one abuser seems problematic you ban said pokemon, not the move.
Concerning the rest of the survey it seems like my voting was pretty similar to the results except for the fact that Gouging Fire would not be my first (or even second) choice for a ban but as long as the metagame progress in the right direction I will be happy. I'm kind of surprised and disappointed that Kingambit scored this low though. I don't lose to it that often since I'm used to it but calling it a "skill check" is just pretentious in my opinion. Even though it can be cheap in its own way, Zamazenta is a skill check and forces people to have good teambuilding habits. It also can't break past its usual checks with a random Tera.
Kingambit just waits until end game to potentially reverse sweep you if it has the right Tera and it can use A LOT of different Tera types to pick its checks : Dark, Fly, Fire, Fairy, Ghost, Fight.
As a side note, I'm surprised not more people are using Garganacl in the current metagame considering how good it is against a lot of top threats.
I was also glad to see a good amount of mention for Gliscor among qualified voters as I also believe it to be unealthy.
Will keep an eye on Gouging Fire suspect but I don't know if I'll have time to get reqs. The result is just a foregone conclusion though so I'm not too worried.
I mentioned Lugia, don't worryLugia bros.... What the hell happened? I thought we got decent support in the last survey. I was sure there was unity in our movement. It wasn't suppose to fizzle out like this....
Kyurem and Gliscor getting the same amount of support is surprising. Gliscor is still annoying af, but I assumed people would be more tame with it since its harder to slot onto teams in this meta.
There were 3 mentions of Dondozo, but if we count Unaware + Def boosting moves to that equation, it is actually 5 mentions. As the bans increase, we will see higher write-ins for Dozo. It was "fun" while it lasted, but time is ticking for you buddy.
Surprised Garganacl got higher votes from the general public than the qualified base, scoring the same as Gholdengo. Would have assumed it would have been the other way around. Its especially surprising it pulled in higher numbers than Ogerpon-W.
Or maybe you know. the qualified playerbase that regularly plays on the high ladder or tours and can consistently get reqs have a better understanding of the metagame than a 1300s player who thinks Rillaboom is broken.Y'know what. I'm gonna say it. Qualified players have genuinely just given up and have accepted that this gen is the "put like 2 fighting types and 5 boots pokemon on your team" generation. It's like a fucking societal ill that's been present for 2 centuries at this point so why bother fixing it because the lay person wouldn't appreciate the difference!
The pp stalling set is absolute bullshit. Trust me, I know, I have used it a decent amount. It forces a lot of teams into their kyurem counter that can boost up, and even then they usually can't do anything. Dondozo? That bozo is going to run out of waterfall pp quickly. Glowking? Slow down king, you ain't going to be doing shit when I tera steel. Gholdengo? More like gholden-go its make it rain pp.I thought that without roost Kyurem would be unnable to pp stall, yet i find myself struggling with that set. Sub and protect give it enough room to cure with lefties, and also has access to a variety of moves to f**k with you like:
Freeze dry +earth power for almost perfect coverage
Dd + icicle spear, even without loaded dice it can deal decent damage, while becoming faster and pp stall you in the way, disgusting
Freeze dry + icicle spear, even without boost, it can now punish both sides from walls trying to switch,again,loaded dice is not necessary because this is only a way to chip WHILE PP STALL
Specs sets still unwallable, and even some mixed sets to mess around with counter mons of the other sets. While it can't do everything at once, it becomes a team building HELL because you can't account for every variation, one being absolutely disgusting for bulky teams (pp stall one) and the other getting a kill every time it hits the field (specs).
What do you think about kyurem guys? It seems in the survey people mention kyurem in the blank space. I know it survived the suspect, but it was a close result and its presence doesn't seem competitive to me.
pokemon legends Z-A is releasing in 2025 and there wasn't any gameplay footage shown in the trailer. i honestly could understand game freak taking it slow now rather than rushing out games every 2.5 millisecondsI agree it would make sense, but lets be real. When have game freak's decisions made sense?
Fair, but I also wouldn't be suprised if it was early 2025, like february. Legends arceus released in January 2022 and SV released November 2022. There is some level of precedence, though there is hope it won't. Though the legends arceus trailer did have gameplay, so I think it would be something like april for legends Z-A. The production teams for each game are different, so they can somewhat make both at similar times. I think SS, Arceus and SV were made in similar time periods, though correct me if I'm wrong.pokemon legends Z-A is releasing in 2025 and there wasn't any gameplay footage shown in the trailer. i honestly could understand game freak taking it slow now rather than rushing out games every 2.5 milliseconds
It needs to be said as well, that removing Ghold at this point in time would not make the hazard dynamic that different. We have two viable removers, three if you wanna count Corv, and Corv loses to Ghold while Tusk and Treads can beat it. It's not as simple as that obviously but there is counterplay. So I think most people have just come to the idea that removing it won't really move the needle much, that and people have been adapting to Ghold structures that abuse hazard stack.Or maybe you know. the qualified playerbase that regularly plays on the high ladder or tours and can consistently get reqs have a better understanding of the metagame than a 1300s player who thinks Rillaboom is broken.
Even though some have controversial takes, their takes come from experience and have convincing evidence to support them, rather than pulling shit out of their ass.
Gambit is 50/50 for me in terms of brokeness, but for Ghold, it clear why the qualified playerbase is less adamant about it. They are just much better at dealing with hazards and they also don’t mind the few options for hazard removal as long as they’re good. Team structures with multiple Spike immune pokes like Lando or Dnite and offensive powerhouses backed up by Tusk ruins Superman Balances that rely on hazard stacking to win. They simply aren’t that good rn in the current landscape, and the qualified playerbase was willing to adapt. Ghold itself gets pressured by several Fire, Dark, and Ground types in the tier. There is a reason why it is now 7th in usage instead of 3rd or 4th.
I made a guide on Spikes a few days ago if you haven’t checked it out.
Okay that was pretty funny I must admit! Thanks for lightening the mood a bit!OU council keep banning Pokemon, but when are we going to address the real problem? There is a single mechanic destroying OU right now, and we all know what I'm talking about...
When will the council finally ban DEFENCE BOOSTING MOVES? The survey demands it!
The real enemies were Unaware mons we made along the way.OU council keep banning Pokemon, but when are we going to address the real problem? There is a single mechanic destroying OU right now, and we all know what I'm talking about...
When will the council finally ban DEFENCE BOOSTING MOVES? The survey demands it!