Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Suspect]

[Finchinator]

Out of curiosity, what do you feel is unhealthy for the meta? I know kyurem has been on everyone’s radar and roaring moon it seems. Btw thank you for the link. Appreciate it!

Kyurem and sleep above all else. Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon warrant greater discussion, too. Not sold on anything else

 

[CobsonYaoi]

Kyurem and sleep above all else. Gouging Fire and Roaring Moon warrant greater discussion, too. Not sold on anything else

What makes you feel that Gouging Fire is unhealthy? Personally it never put a strain on my team building, and while it's a top tier threat it doesn't feel overpowered.

 

[Finchinator]

What makes you feel that Gouging Fire is unhealthy? Personally it never put a strain on my team building, and while it's a top tier threat it doesn't feel overpowered.

It does not really have many counters aside from Dondozo, and I think people are really underrating Booster Energy sets on offense -- with the right Tera, getting multiple dances with its bulk happens super often. I think it has a ton of interchangability and it pairs nicely with Hatt, Booster Tusk, etc. when not using boots to minimize the SR weakness

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

It does not really have many counters aside from Dondozo, and I think people are really underrating Booster Energy sets on offense -- with the right Tera, getting multiple dances with its bulk happens super often. I think it has a ton of interchangability and it pairs nicely with Hatt, Booster Tusk, etc. when not using boots to minimize the SR weakness

there's also of course the band set, which is obscenely strong in sun especially after a tera—in terms of damage output, it's nearly on par with specs sun chi-yu and band rain dracovish—and is useful for breaking the unaware walls that can withstand the ddance sets. the fact that people usually expect ddance on it can often lead them to switch into something that the band set can kill or heavily dent (or at least that keeps happening when i send it out). it also 6-0s stall at preview and that's not an exaggeration

 

[Mikegengsta]

there's also of course the band set, which is obscenely strong in sun and is useful for breaking the unaware walls that can withstand the ddance sets. the fact that people usually expect ddance on it can often lead them to switch into something that the band set can kill or heavily dent (or at least that keeps happening when i send it out). it also 6-0s stall at preview and that's not an exaggeration

6-0 stall is like a godsend from heaven.

 

[Dreadfury]

How's everyone feeling about Roaring Moon at the moment? To me it suffers from Four Move Slot Syndrome way too much to be effective against most mons.

I still hate this mon on principle, but I'm finding it surprisingly reasonable compared to the time the previous survey went out.

Moon really does have some nasty 4MSS though. It really wants Taunt but it also really wants EQ/Edge. I still think it's a bit much, but I don't think it's as overwhelming as Kyurem anymore.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

6-0 stall is like a godsend from heaven.

invalidating an entire playstyle is not healthy. when a playstyle is struggling the way stall has been for nearly this entire generation, it's a bad sign. "grr stall bad, 6-0ing stall good" is not the mindset of a skilled and well-informed player

 

[Heatranator]

invalidating an entire playstyle is not healthy. when a playstyle is struggling the way stall has been for nearly this entire generation, it's a bad sign. "grr stall bad, 6-0ing stall good" is not the mindset of a skilled and well-informed player

Sure, facing stall is annoying, but it is a playstyle that you have to pilot well. Creating a team that can cover most of the metagame is already a difficult task, but making sure you don't make a single mistake so the opponent doesn't break a hole in your defenses even harder. I despise facing stall, but I can at least respect them, especially this gen when it is so hard to play stall, they have to have the patience and skill to not make a mistake. With other playstyles, you can afford to make mistakes, but with stall, that can mean you lose the game.
I know that people hate stall and I see where they are coming from, but it is still a skillful playstyle, like most playstyles are.

 

[Pokenar]

Question: if Darkrai is removed, is Sleep still a problem? If yes, get rid of sleep. If not, get rid of Darkrai. Problem solved.

The argument is not that sleep as a whole is broken WITH sleep clause, its that its an annoyance that's only legal due to an exception made to an otherwise universal rule. And people can and will continue to point to it when they want new exceptions

The council could close that argument entirely and finally ban sleep, since no one wants an inrestricted sleep, or like, ban 2 Pokemon

 

[niersighted]

Hullo, I usually lurk but have been playing ladder a lot lately and wanted to try my hand at contributing to the conversation. Not the Sleep issue that has been discussed a lot already, but rather this question that `ShadowTwo posted a few pages back. Should I do or say anything incorrect please let me know, I miss talking on forums and wanted to get back into stuff like this for a while now.

Well, it's all well and good to talk about Sleep and Darkrai, but in reality:

Which Pokémon do you find the most problematic at the moment, and therefore deserves a priority suspect test?

To start with I think current OU is pretty fun, and extraordinarily better than any of the previous metagames by a wide margin, but there are a few mons that have risen my eyebrow when it comes to accounting for them in the builder or fighting them on ladder, or just having used them myself while climbing.

Of these I feel Gouging Fire, Kyurem, Raging Bolt, and Roaring Moon should have very close eyes kept on them.

Gouging Fire - A terrifying statspread that allows it to customize itself very efficiently, with great coverage to boot. Pretty easy to slot into a team, and can be very difficult to stop if given even a single turn to get a DDance. On Sun, they get an extremely powerful breaker able to dent even resisted walls very well. Previously mentioned were Banded sets as well, which crank up the scariness to 11.

Kyurem - A mon that is pretty difficult to discern on team preview, and very punishing if you get it wrong. Sending in your wall on what you presume is a Specs attack may give it a free turn to Sub, while it has the bulk able to live neutral hits and fire off its powerful STABs, backed up by Earth Power to make responding to it even harder. Not to mention running the risk of possible freeze chances allowing it to muscle past would-be checks.

Raging Bolt - You already know what I'm about to say-- It's a Special Kingambit, except this Gambit gets roided SpAtk if it's Sunny out. Booster variants pack extreme immediate power, while the bulkier Leftovers sets feel like they live forever. Of course, it does have clearer weaknesses; Thunderclap has an immunity that you should always have on your team, for instance. However I feel like if Gambit ever gets the axe heads should turn towards this guy, who's doing a lot of the same thing.

Roaring Moon - Doing what he has been since DLC1, so I don't feel like I need to go super in-depth for this one. Booster Acro sets can be difficult to stop, and the lesser-used-but-still-great Taunt sets allow it to sit on walls who would try to Whirlwind it or Status it to slow it down and get up more DDances for free.

These 4 are the most pressing to me at the moment, but I don't feel like they are actively ruining the tier or making me hate ladder. With the Sleep discussion going on at the moment I don't expect much to be done on them, which is fine, however I hope to start a conversation on them, whether it be now or later on down the road. And sorry for the wall of text lol, I just wanted to get my thoughts out after the past few days of laddering straight.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Stored Power is not a real set. Iron Crown straight up is an exemplary standard of modern Psychic types that the Lati twins need to catch up on. Psychics have to worry about few things, immunity to dark types, steel resist, and do you have fighting STAB

Tera Fighting Tera Blast would like to know your location
Focus Miss would like to know your location so it can miss a nuke
Defensive Teras would like to know your location

... also, could SD Iron Crown be an OK lure set?

 

[Heatranator]

Tera Fighting Tera Blast would like to know your location
Focus Miss would like to know your location so it can miss a nuke
Defensive Teras would like to know your location

... also, could SD Iron Crown be an OK lure set?

Sure, it has alright coverage on the special side, but 72 attack ain't cutting it chief, even at a +2 attack. It has stabs, x-scissor, sacred sword and supercell slam, so it isn't necessarily lacking, but it would be a waste of a teamslot. Physical walking wake would be better, and that ain't any good.

 

[Magcargo]

Personally I'd like Gouging Fire and Raging Bolt gone the most. Gouging Fire under sun has 0 counterplay. Even shit like Tera Water Ting-Lu is getting 2HKO'd and helmet chip from lando isn't necessarily an option to beat it when it techs Raging Fury and beats you anyways. You can't be this strong and this bulky at the same time + have a setup move, recovery, perfect coverage, all the works. Shit is bloodmoon 2.

Raging bolt is a bit more manageable since it can at least be worn down and is a bit reliant on booster / weather, but it's only kept manageable because Ting-Lu is a beast. This mon benefits from all the different field conditions for setup + coverage in weather ball and generally has limited answers. I don't think I should be running Ting-lu on every team to beat long neck.

Kyurem imo doesn't need to go. I feel it is more manageable in practice than it is on paper since it is hazard weak, has a difficult time switching in and out, has no recovery, etc. This mon can find it hard to get oppurtunities to launch off nukes and the like. Specs also has some issues with needing to get predictions right. I wouldn't be sad to see it go since freeze dry is cracked, but I also think it's services & balance breaking capabilities are needed rn.

 

[NotDaProGamer]

Sure, it has alright coverage on the special side, but 72 attack ain't cutting it chief, even at a +2 attack. It has stabs, x-scissor, sacred sword and supercell slam, so it isn't necessarily lacking, but it would be a waste of a teamslot. Physical walking wake would be better, and that ain't any good.

So does SD have any merits as a lure? 95 Atk with +1 on Battle Bond is pretty good to lure and the like?

 

[Heatranator]

So does SD have any merits as a lure? 95 Atk with +1 on Battle Bond is pretty good to lure and the like?

It does because greninja has 95 attack, which you can work with. Plus, high speed and lots of coverage means it could be a good revenge killer. Although you would probably want to run special attacks + low kick to lure blissey, physical could work too. It also has swords dance, so that is an option. The coverage again is insane on this, Stabs, shadow sneak for priority, low kick/brick break, ice punch, rock slide, u turn and gunk shot hits the tier pretty hard. Back in Gen 6, the only thing that even held back gren for a while was that it couldn't hit fairy types for super effective damage, then in ORAS it got gunk shot and it got banned. IMO, not a bad set but since gren is not all that good in OU, though not bad by any means, it probably wouldn't be a good set. If gren stocks rise, could see it being used.

 

[ACExDiscostu93]

Just wanting to put a funny set here. The ultimate sash hypnosis Darkrai counter.

Blaziken @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Temper Flare
- Double Kick

Not sold on the tera type or Temper Flare ( wasn't sure on Flare Blitz given recoil), but SDing on a hypnosis, outspeeding and OHKOing the next turn is hilarious every time.

Disclaimer: This is a meme set and in 99% of scenarios worse than the usual set. Please do not use this post as a recommendation for your team. ACExDiscostu93 and friends Ltd do not accept responsibility for any loss of ELO on the ladder.

 

[ant4456]

It does not really have many counters aside from Dondozo, and I think people are really underrating Booster Energy sets on offense -- with the right Tera, getting multiple dances with its bulk happens super often. I think it has a ton of interchangability and it pairs nicely with Hatt, Booster Tusk, etc. when not using boots to minimize the SR weakness

I know it's been said before but it's literally Just Mega Charizard X with a free item slot.

Hell, with Booster Attack, it literally has the 1.3x Tough Claws boost except it's on all attacks the time it switches in.

Yeah the stats aren't exactly the same, but I think it's a Pokemon that needs to keep an eye on it.

 

[YubelVT]

So after my Darkrai review, I decided I really liked the team. I changed Darkrai to Tinkaton and I gotta say, Thunder Waving and Encoring Gholdengo makes me happy. It’s up there with Freezing an opponent with Ice Beam.

I forgot that tinkaton had mold breaker and was about to ask how you were doing that to Gholdengo. I am very intelligent.

Anyway uh, Roaring Moon should leave the tier it's only healthy in the TCG (We love prize trading)

I know it's been said before but it's literally Just Mega Charizard X with a free item slot.

Hell, with Booster Attack, it literally has the 1.3x Tough Claws boost except it's on all attacks the time it switches in.

Yeah the stats aren't exactly the same, but I think it's a Pokemon that needs to keep an eye on it.

Something worth remembering is that any gouging fire set without a dragon move is hard walled by tera grass heatran who 2hkos with earth power. I don't disagree that Gouging Fire is strong and arguably banworthy, but we need to remember our lord and savior Heatran

 

[Wolf-X]

Been playing around with Pechurant and I think it's a hilarious mon. A trolly, bulky spinblocking + Parting Shotting mon like this has a lot of utility on HSam + Lando-T teams, since it makes these guys better at absorbing hits, can keep hazards on the field with its good bulk, and can debuff other guys like Ting-Lu so stuff like Hat has an easier time fending them off. I think being a parting shot bot + spinblocker is a good enough niche, but this mon has some other troll utility with malignant chain + Poison puppeteer letting it cripple some switch-ins like Tusk, Ting-lu, and Lando-T. I've even used it as an emergency endgame tera gambit check with Tera Fairy + malignant chain to fish for poison.

I guess one major issue is that a mon like this feels like it fits on specific team structures. Hsam, Lando-T and Hatterene seem like mandatory partners in order to not autolose to stuff like Gliscor or Gambit.

Hex pecharunt eats gliscor for dinner though, for Gambit you can always Tera fighting or just parting shot away, the gambit match is indeed kinda annoying though

 

[VigilanteV8]

BAN

BAN


DLC2 dropped more than a month ago and, as expected, the vast amount of new and returning mons as well as changing movepools really shook the metagme.

Furthermore stellar type absolutely changed... I joke lol that's the most useless mechanic ever introduced. Just wanted to point out how useless and forgetable this thing is (luckily serp and enam make it have at least 0.1% usage).

Regardless of these changes I think that Gliscor still remains as problematic as it was in DLC1 metagme. Yes, we have offensive things that check it like kyurem but does it really make an impact? In my opinion it really doesn't.

Gliscor was never broken because of it being unkillable, there are several mons that can OKHO it without too many problems. Any special attacking water type or mon that has ice coverage can OKHO it easily, so the fact that new strong attackers like kyurem are in the tier means nothing in practical terms when it comes to the brokenness of gliscor. There could be even 100 viable ice type pokémons in OU but it wouldn't change a thing: you will still most likely have 1/2 mons that can OKHO gliscor in a given team, you will never have 6 things that can deal with it regardless of how many options are avaible in a given meta.

What makes this thing incredibly toxic is its impact on team building and the nasty cores it can create coupled with other pokemons. Its list of perks is very long:

-The passive regenaration granted by its ability is obviously its main thing
-It is essentially immune to knock off
-It is immune to every single hazard except for rocks.
-It has an incredibly vast movepool.
-The interactions it creates with protect are just uncompetitive. The gliscor player doesn't even need to risk anything trying to predict as it can safely regen and scout with protect
-It is not passive by any means. Even with 0 investments its STAB earthquake is forcing out a lot of pokémons, furthermore it has access to knock, toxic and swords dance sets.

All of the above factors contribute to the issue I have with gliscor: this mon stops any kind of progress being made in a given game. Gliscor feels particularly broken this gen because, in my opinion, it has two team mates that make it absolutely toxic:

this mon with gliscor is just a no brainer in my opinion. They complement each other weaknesses almost (if not straight up) PERFECTLY. This thing has regenrator, pivotting, great special bulk and options such future sight, t wave, sludge bomb etc. etc.

Gliscor litrally learns all hazards ever outside of sticky webs and Ghold is simply a great partner to it, not much explanation is need here.

Gliscor is not borken in a vacum, as I said gliscor is not your standard broken mon like urshifu single strike (which in my opinion is a broken mon regardless of the metagame you put it in). In gen 9 meta, nonetheless, I think Gliscor is absolutely uncompetitive and really should be taken out of the game.


I will just ask you this: what makes gliscor easier to handle compared to DLC1? Answer: Absolutely nothhing. This mon is still broken as before because just like before it has partners that can just create unbreakable cores.

Don't let me get started on the impact of gliscor on stall. I will leave you a replay that, in my opinion, clearly displays how broken it is.

Explanation: I am running a wack team that was the result of some nasty cooking. I have two mons that, in theory, should just have a great matchup against stall:

- Sub/wisp/hex/CURSE

- Tacyhon/psyshock/volt switch/FUTURE SIGHT

- support

to keep the previous two healthy.

With this kind of team I really shouldn't struggle as much against stall but, since gliscor and his uncompetitiveness are in the tier, the stall matches are incredibly difficult even with this niche trash ass team I am running. Not only I struggled by I also took huge risks in that game (like switching 25% health crown on slowking, one flamethrower and it was gg).

Gliscor stall ≈ 1900 elo replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2037217394

Bonus yapping: ban Kingambit, Roaring moon, Darkrai and gholedngo. I will make more detailed posts about these but for real some actions have to be taken. We can't have a tier with gambit, moon, darkrai, dengo and gliscor free to do the F they want without even a suspect test.

 

[Conflux123]

BAN

BAN


DLC2 dropped more than a month ago and, as expected, the vast amount of new and returning mons as well as changing movepools really shook the metagme.

Furthermore stellar type absolutely changed... I joke lol that's the most useless mechanic ever introduced. Just wanted to point out how useless and forgetable this thing is (luckily serp and enam make it have at least 0.1% usage).

Regardless of these changes I think that Gliscor still remains as problematic as it was in DLC1 metagme. Yes, we have offensive things that check it like kyurem but does it really make an impact? In my opinion it really doesn't.

Gliscor was never broken because of it being unkillable, there are several mons that can OKHO it without too many problems. Any special attacking water type or mon that has ice coverage can OKHO it easily, so the fact that new strong attackers like kyurem are in the tier means nothing in practical terms when it comes to the brokenness of gliscor. There could be even 100 viable ice type pokémons in OU but it wouldn't change a thing: you will still most likely have 1/2 mons that can OKHO gliscor in a given team, you will never have 6 things that can deal with it regardless of how many options are avaible in a given meta.

What makes this thing incredibly toxic is its impact on team building and the nasty cores it can create coupled with other pokemons. Its list of perks is very long:

-The passive regenaration granted by its ability is obviously its main thing
-It is essentially immune to knock off
-It is immune to every single hazard except for rocks.
-It has an incredibly vast movepool.
-The interactions it creates with protect are just uncompetitive. The gliscor player doesn't even need to risk anything trying to predict as it can safely regen and scout with protect
-It is not passive by any means. Even with 0 investments its STAB earthquake is forcing out a lot of pokémons, furthermore it has access to knock, toxic and swords dance sets.

All of the above factors contribute to the issue I have with gliscor: this mon stops any kind of progress being made in a given game. Gliscor feels particularly broken this gen because, in my opinion, it has two team mates that make it absolutely toxic:

this mon with gliscor is just a no brainer in my opinion. They complement each other weaknesses almost (if not straight up) PERFECTLY. This thing has regenrator, pivotting, great special bulk and options such future sight, t wave, sludge bomb etc. etc.

Gliscor litrally learns all hazards ever outside of sticky webs and Ghold is simply a great partner to it, not much explanation is need here.

Gliscor is not borken in a vacum, as I said gliscor is not your standard broken mon like urshifu single strike (which in my opinion is a broken mon regardless of the metagame you put it in). In gen 9 meta, nonetheless, I think Gliscor is absolutely uncompetitive and really should be taken out of the game.


I will just ask you this: what makes gliscor easier to handle compared to DLC1? Answer: Absolutely nothhing. This mon is still broken as before because just like before it has partners that can just create unbreakable cores.

Don't let me get started on the impact of gliscor on stall. I will leave you a replay that, in my opinion, clearly displays how broken it is.

Explanation: I am running a wack team that was the result of some nasty cooking. I have two mons that, in theory, should just have a great matchup against stall:

- Sub/wisp/hex/CURSE

- Tacyhon/psyshock/volt switch/FUTURE SIGHT

- support

to keep the previous two healthy.

With this kind of team I really shouldn't struggle as much against stall but, since gliscor and his uncompetitiveness are in the tier, the stall matches are incredibly difficult even with this niche trash ass team I am running. Not only I struggled by I also took huge risks in that game (like switching 25% health crown on slowking, one flamethrower and it was gg).

Gliscor stall ≈ 1900 elo replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2037217394

Bonus yapping: ban Kingambit, Roaring moon, Darkrai and gholedngo. I will make more detailed posts about these but for real some actions have to be taken. We can't have a tier with gambit, moon, darkrai, dengo and gliscor free to do the F they want without even a suspect test.

There are always going to be mons that force a lot of stuff out. That doesn't mean that they're overpowered. Gliscor does have knock off, but it's not that common. Mainly it's to set spikes. I think that Gliscor is not nearly as good as you say because yes, it forces switches. Yes, it easily sets up spikes. But the fact that the most common spinner in the format right now has a favorable matchup against it AND gholdengo keeps it in check imo. Kingambit is centralizing yes but it does have quite a few checks that are inherent in most teams without specifically teching for it. Roaring moon is a lot more balanced in the DLC2 meta imo because it does have more checks now. It also has more competition for specific roles which lowers its usage. Darkrai should be banned I totally agree but only because of those stupid cheese hypnosis sets which are swagplay 2.0 and not because Darkrai is broken. And finally Gholdengo is good but it can't really spinblock the most common spinblocker in the tier (which holds it back until it's manageable imo) and it also, while having decent power, really needs a nasty plot boost or specs to do a lot of damage to teams, which also is a weakness.

 

[YubelVT]

There are always going to be mons that force a lot of stuff out. That doesn't mean that they're overpowered. Gliscor does have knock off, but it's not that common. Mainly it's to set spikes. I think that Gliscor is not nearly as good as you say because yes, it forces switches. Yes, it easily sets up spikes. But the fact that the most common spinner in the format right now has a favorable matchup against it AND gholdengo keeps it in check imo. Kingambit is centralizing yes but it does have quite a few checks that are inherent in most teams without specifically teching for it. Roaring moon is a lot more balanced in the DLC2 meta imo because it does have more checks now. It also has more competition for specific roles which lowers its usage. Darkrai should be banned I totally agree but only because of those stupid cheese hypnosis sets which are swagplay 2.0 and not because Darkrai is broken. And finally Gholdengo is good but it can't really spinblock the most common spinblocker in the tier (which holds it back until it's manageable imo) and it also, while having decent power, really needs a nasty plot boost or specs to do a lot of damage to teams, which also is a weakness.

So I'm gonna make this point again because it's relevant, and I want to remind people that ubers viability is not 1:1 to the banworthiness of a pokemon, but Gliscor is currently ranked as fucking A- on the Ubers VR, one tier above Skeledirge who was THE physical wall of Ubers for a long time (and is still really good). For full clarity, I used to be 100% opposed to a Gliscor ban from current OU because I thought Gholdengo was exacerbating all of the hazard problems, Gliscor included, and Gliscor wasn't being tested on his own merits. Now I'm not so sure. I never thought Gliscor was bad, just to clarify, I just thought it needed to be tested in a metagame with more hazard removal. Ubers arguably has less hazard removal than OU despite the nonexistence of Gholdengo so it's somewhat analagous. I'm rambling to try and say that Gliscor is probably banworthy. It forces stuff out yes, but in return it's basically unkillable and an incredible pivot with u-turn. Most sets only having 3 moves to work with does kinda suck (protect mandatory) but at the same time that's still really annoying to deal with and is a scout, along with healing off rocks chip for free.

What I'm trying to say is that Gliscor probably needs to leave, with maybe getting retested later if Gholdengo leaves.

(an aside: smeargle is tiered c- on the ubers VR which astounds me because like, koraidon is still top dog and scale shot koraidon is not something you want getting free turns)

 

[Conflux123]

So I'm gonna make this point again because it's relevant, and I want to remind people that ubers viability is not 1:1 to the banworthiness of a pokemon, but Gliscor is currently ranked as fucking A- on the Ubers VR, one tier above Skeledirge who was THE physical wall of Ubers for a long time (and is still really good). For full clarity, I used to be 100% opposed to a Gliscor ban from current OU because I thought Gholdengo was exacerbating all of the hazard problems, Gliscor included, and Gliscor wasn't being tested on his own merits. Now I'm not so sure. I never thought Gliscor was bad, just to clarify, I just thought it needed to be tested in a metagame with more hazard removal. Ubers arguably has less hazard removal than OU despite the nonexistence of Gholdengo so it's somewhat analagous. I'm rambling to try and say that Gliscor is probably banworthy. It forces stuff out yes, but in return it's basically unkillable and an incredible pivot with u-turn. Most sets only having 3 moves to work with does kinda suck (protect mandatory) but at the same time that's still really annoying to deal with and is a scout, along with healing off rocks chip for free.

What I'm trying to say is that Gliscor probably needs to leave, with maybe getting retested later if Gholdengo leaves.

(an aside: smeargle is tiered c- on the ubers VR which astounds me because like, koraidon is still top dog and scale shot koraidon is not something you want getting free turns)

Like I said before, gliscor is not even close to unkillable. One of the main ways to deal with its hazards is literally a mon that OHKOes it with all of its offensive spinning sets. With the right support, gliscor is easy to deal with. Great Tusk literally comes in and runs both rapid spin AND ice spinner on the same set, so it spins away all of gliscor's hazards while also OHKOing it. Gliscor can't even tank special hits, so you have to have support to make it work. At the same time you can just pivot in special wallbreakers on gliscor that are hard to switch into. It isn't hard to play around gliscor.

 

[YubelVT]

Like I said before, gliscor is not even close to unkillable. One of the main ways to deal with its hazards is literally a mon that OHKOes it with all of its offensive spinning sets. With the right support, gliscor is easy to deal with. Great Tusk literally comes in and runs both rapid spin AND ice spinner on the same set, so it spins away all of gliscor's hazards while also OHKOing it.

Ok but consider: switching. Great Tusk is a good pokemon but to say it handles gliscor by itself is just incorrect. This exact tusk set existed in DLC1 when Gliscor was banned as well and Gliscor was still banned. There are also far stronger ice moves in ubers and Gliscor is ranked A- because it's just that good at what it does.

 

[VigilanteV8]

Like I said before, gliscor is not even close to unkillable. One of the main ways to deal with its hazards is literally a mon that OHKOes it with all of its offensive spinning sets. With the right support, gliscor is easy to deal with. Great Tusk literally comes in and runs both rapid spin AND ice spinner on the same set, so it spins away all of gliscor's hazards while also OHKOing it.

Ok but consider: switching. Great Tusk is a good pokemon but to say it handles gliscor by itself is just incorrect. This exact tusk set existed in DLC1 when Gliscor was banned as well and Gliscor was still banned. There are also far stronger ice moves in ubers and Gliscor is ranked A- because it's just that good at what it does.

I agree with YubelVT, Conflux123 I think you completely missed my and his point. The fact that great tusk has ice spinner and can potentially (I say potentially because depending on the sets both are running it ain't even sure OKHO) really does not mean anything. Tons upon tons upon tons of mons can OKHO gliscor, but the problem is that gliscor with a strong team structure behind is just uneahtlhy as fuck because it can just protect scout + switch and take no risk while regenerating fully thanks to poison heal + all of its other perks such as the great defensive typing and near full hazard immunity.

As I said: there could be 100 Good ice types in OU, it wouldn't make gliscor any less broken. The tusk you talking about was in DLC1 and still the majoirty of qualified playerbase decided to ban