Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]

[arnimacarni]

Ugh Finchinator I thought we left it clear last time what was okay to post and what not. Anyway, how's the Tortured Poets Department sitting with you? /s

I have been trying out a new version of my main team with Beat Up Fezandipiti and I've been having some okay results with it, feel free to check it out: https://pokepast.es/f97bb04da86cd474

So I've been using these triple (sometimes quadruple) G's for a long time, Gliscor Garg and GFire, and most of the time Gambit too. Fezand is there to aid in toxic spamming and Glowking (my fifth G) runs Venoshock for some surprise factor. I'm thinking of adding Ghold (six) or even Sinistcha for some Hex spam.

Sometimes a G ain't even a G, sometimes it's a resourceful mon in SV OU.

 

[Heatranator]

Ugh Finchinator I thought we left it clear last time what was okay to post and what not. Anyway, how's the Tortured Poets Department sitting with you? /s

I have been trying out a new version of my main team with Beat Up Fezandipiti and I've been having some okay results with it, feel free to check it out: https://pokepast.es/f97bb04da86cd474

So I've been using these triple (sometimes quadruple) G's for a long time, Gliscor Garg and GFire, and most of the time Gambit too. Fezand is there to aid in toxic spamming and Glowking (my fifth G) runs Venoshock for some surprise factor. I'm thinking of adding Ghold (six) or even Sinistcha for some Hex spam.

Sometimes a G ain't even a G, sometimes it's a resourceful mon in SV OU.

Why are you using dragon rush? That seems just a bad move, dragon claw seems a lot more reliable.

 

[658Greninja]

I do not know if I cooked some good shit or burnt the house down, but I noticed Kyurem gets Body Press.

Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground/Ice/Fairy/Steel/Fighting
EVs: 28 Def / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Body Press

(228 Speed outruns max speed Lando)

Body Press does three things for Kyurem.

-3HKOs Blissey, forcing it to burn Soft-Boiled pp and lose the 1v1.

-One-shots Weavile who often can eat 1-2 hits from Kyurem.

-2HKOs Balloon Gambit who often uses Kyurem as setup fodder once it finds a safe switch in.

•Calcs for proof•

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 214-254 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 312-368 (111 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Volc gets the boot I might test it out. Boots Kyurem has a very flexible 4th slot that can be for anything, but what are your thoughts?

 

[Bold School]

Ugh Finchinator I thought we left it clear last time what was okay to post and what not. Anyway, how's the Tortured Poets Department sitting with you? /s

I have been trying out a new version of my main team with Beat Up Fezandipiti and I've been having some okay results with it, feel free to check it out: https://pokepast.es/f97bb04da86cd474

So I've been using these triple (sometimes quadruple) G's for a long time, Gliscor Garg and GFire, and most of the time Gambit too. Fezand is there to aid in toxic spamming and Glowking (my fifth G) runs Venoshock for some surprise factor. I'm thinking of adding Ghold (six) or even Sinistcha for some Hex spam.

Sometimes a G ain't even a G, sometimes it's a resourceful mon in SV OU.

How do you deal with Ground moves when 5/6 of your mons are weak to it? Even with Tera and a ground immunity mon as your 6th, that seems rough for your team.

 

[arnimacarni]

Why are you using dragon rush? That seems just a bad move, dragon claw seems a lot more reliable.

To get that Temper Flare boost if I miss, but I know that's cheesy... I just don't really like Flare Blitz or Raging Fury so I thought Dragon Rush would complement Temper Flare better

How do you deal with Ground moves when 5/6 of your mons are weak to it? Even with Tera and a ground immunity mon as your 6th, that seems rough for your team.

But you're right, I will think about that, maybe add Rilla or sth

 

[RS25802580]

To get that Temper Flare boost if I miss, but I know that's cheesy... I just don't really like Flare Blitz or Raging Fury so I thought Dragon Rush would complement Temper Flare better



View attachment 628014

But you're right, I will think about that, maybe add Rilla or sth

Balloon Gambit could be a quick patch for that. Take some of the pressure off Gliscor and potentially capitalize on ground attacks for free setup.

I do see that your team gets 6-0d by bulk up Tusk. Some more structural changes could be worthwhile.

 

[Soiramio3000]

I believe that smeargle should be removed from the viability list.

its niche is suppossed to come from the fact that it can run both ceaceless edge and stone axe, but this pokemon is so fragile that it is lucky to use just one of these moves.
as if this wasn't enough spore got banned.

it is like a slightly less bad version of the f.e.a.r. tactics.

even raikou is performing better in ou.

 

[Heatranator]

I do not know if I cooked some good shit or burnt the house down, but I noticed Kyurem gets Body Press.

View attachment 627993
Kyurem @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ground/Ice/Fairy/Steel/Fighting
EVs: 28 Def / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Body Press

(228 Speed outruns max speed Lando)

Body Press does three things for Kyurem.

-3HKOs Blissey, forcing it to burn Soft-Boiled pp and lose the 1v1.

-One-shots Weavile who often can eat 1-2 hits from Kyurem.

-2HKOs Balloon Gambit who often uses Kyurem as setup fodder once it finds a safe switch in.

•Calcs for proof•

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 214-254 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 312-368 (111 - 130.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (47.7 - 56.8%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO

28 Def Kyurem Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 188-224 (55.1 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Volc gets the boot I might test it out. Boots Kyurem has a very flexible 4th slot that can be for anything, but what are your thoughts?

I have specifically used bp on a dd set, and despite some anti synergy due to scale shot reducing your defense, it still was great. Being able to hit steel types with that set specifically is amazing, and even without investment it still chunks them. For example, +1 tera ice icicle spear and a follow up bp into offensive gambit has a good chance to ko.
I think bp works great on multiple sets. I am also trying out a mixed kyurem set with icicle spear, I think kyurem has a lot of flexibility that could be explored.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

If Volc gets the boot

what do you mean "if", volc always runs boots

 

[Finchinator]

Volcarona is banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-round-12-voting.3742100/page-6#post-10090923

Doomers begone.

 

[arnimacarni]

Volcarona is banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-round-12-voting.3742100/page-6#post-10090923

Doomers begone.

bye moth, and bye everyone else (meta in two months is going to be just tusk and clef)

only semi-ironically

 

[ayevon]

wellspring next

 

[Soiramio3000]

I bet that by the end of May we will see skeledigre rising in OU due to the absence of volcarona.

 

[Finchinator]

I bet that by the end of May we will see skeledigre rising in OU due to the absence of volcarona.

Bro what? Skele was one of the best Volc checks. It may see less usage now.

 

[weirdo faye]

Ty for banning volcarona.

 

[Avira]

It's a glorious day with Volcarona's ban. Now, the meta can finally improve some more.

 

[P3DS]

Volcarona is banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-round-12-voting.3742100/page-6#post-10090923

Doomers begone.

"Alexa, Play Celebration by Kool and The Gang"

I was worried by the thread that it would be another DNB and onto top threat number X. This will be good for bringing the format into a nicer place. I liked the moth-less metas last year (maybe less after the ban on Gliscor), but hopefully this will be the start of the change that will improve the OU format. It might deteriorate a little while threats are handled, but things are looking up. I can now get rid of having 4 checks for one Pokémon on a team now :)

 

[Demon Queen]

Honestly, I might use Larvesta over it. Larvesta, while not able to pull the same Quiver Dance shenanigans, it is however able to pull Flare Blitz with its higher attack, and Morning Sun is still good thanks to access to Eviolite. They’re both just as good
Overall, Volc didn’t need to be banned

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

Volcarona is banned: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-round-12-voting.3742100/page-6#post-10090923

Doomers begone.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

View attachment 628441



bye moth, and bye everyone else (meta in two months is going to be just tusk and clef)



only semi-ironically

I'm surprised people voted out Volc, thought it was gonna be a lot more contentious


At this point though, when we ban everything like what are we left with? That's why I'm against tera being here as I still see it making the meta worse when all the brokens go because it enables the worst playstyles in unhealthy ways and creates unhealthy dynamics, and we are left witn a meta that encourages matchup fishing and ends up being stale because unlike something like SS or ADV OU variety would be limited and tera would still create unhealthy matchup fishing and playstyles.



We could have had a way more fun meta had it left but pro players insisted it should stay and now we are stuck with it because nobody cares anymore for action even if some of us know the tier is better off without it, and are simply content, even if we don't have to be, or fear the meta would become stale without it (It wouldn't)



I don't even play SV anymore but I'm still an onlooker who pays close attention to the tier.



I mean I'm glad Volc went, but I feel like the tera problem will be unavoidable at a certain point, since i common thread amongst all the brokens and potential brokens not named waterpon or Kyurem on Finch's graph is almost all due to tera, I think tera is actively making the meta less fun to play, amd is the reason why I don't engage because the tier isn't fun and is not fun to build teams for at all, not banning tera is easily the biggest tiering mistake of this entire gen, and I think we as a community need to take accountability for that.

I'm not saying powercreep isn't a factor because it clearly is, but we could have saved loads of bans and removed a lot of matchup fishing if tera just went. So basically I ask to top players: Why are you so insistent on preserving tera? I get that you all find it fun but there is evidence suggesting it is the cause of a lot of the tiers issues and is hurting the tier. And so far trying to preserve tera just doesn't feel worth it as the end product feels inferior to a meta without tera, so I also ask: Why bother preserving tera?

I'm just gonna keep engaging with oldgens and discuss the current metagame and not play it unless tera gets out, because I know deep down the meta would be better with it gone and it's upsetting that players keep ignoring it despite being responsible for a large portion of the OU tier's issues at its core. I do thank the council for doing their best with the hand they have been dealt though, because powercreep on top of tera, on top of defog being gutted and hazard spam is not easy to deal with at all. But yeah, I do not like this tier but I hope it transforms into something some people can enjoy I guess. I know the tera discussion is pointless at this point but I just wanted to share what I believe the biggest problem with the meta is apart from the broken monsters.

 

[658Greninja]

WOOOOOOOOOOO

This was well-deserved. Imagine being so broken that Storm Zone thinks you should go. (I.e the guy who defended Archaludon and Chien-Pao in the past)

I believe this is the step in the right direction regardless of what you think is the more broken mon.

Winners

Enam and Val are the obvious ones, being checked by Volc. Volcarona getting deported also means they can be slot in more often on HO (not that Val needed help or anything.

Grassy Glide stonks go up, plus Heatran or G-Fire can be run in place of Volc as the bulky Ghold check.

Ghold was already great in the metagame, but Volc was a near hard counter to Ghold. With it gone, Ghold is most likely to get better. Can’t say its a good or bad thing rn.

Kyurem is another great mon, especially with Balance teams being incredible rn. Though Volc was a fake check (Specs Draco trucks it and Kyu techs Rock Slide), it still appreciates not having it in the tier as it makes clicking Ice Beam and Freeze Dry easier. It won’t be broken though.

Crown and also Scizor are underrated mons that benefit from the Volc ban. Plus they both check Kyurem which will be in higher demand.

Losers

Tbh, I don’t think there are any actual losers of the ban. Those that “lost” either don’t mind the ban like Stall or was already going downhill like Skeledirge. The mons that were cited as Volc checks like Glowking, Prima, Dnite and Ting-Lu actually improve. Remember that these mons also check other shit, so without Volc chipping them down or killing them with Tera, they have more breathing room to fulfill their roles.

With Volc gone, is there anything I consider broken? Nothing atm, though I will keep an eye on SD

.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2111729756?p2

This is a mid ladder replay, but here Gliscor gets every kill and survives a Tera Ghost Hex cause of the SpD investment, and proceeding to heal up back to full since Pinkacross’ ToTw has several free entries for Gliscor. Even with the Skarmory, the team eventually falls to the Tera Normal SD Facade. The replay also demonstrates why Skarmory sucks.

Something about Gliscor shredding through even well-built teams like that seems off, but we’ll see in a couple weeks.

 

[Naraku Kirigiri]

Hopefully kyurem is next

 

[Eeveeto]

WOOOOOOOOOOO


Losers

Tbh, I don’t think there are any actual losers of the ban. Those that “lost” either don’t mind the ban like Stall or was already going downhill like Skeledirge. The mons that were cited as Volc checks like Glowking, Prima, Dnite and Ting-Lu actually improve. Remember that these mons also check other shit, so without Volc chipping them down or killing them with Tera, they have more breathing room to fulfill their roles.

I think the one Mon that actually loses is Moltres. Volcarona only bypassed it with Tera Water or non-Flying weak Tera + bulk + Morning Sun, it was really on the podium of checks. Fortunately for Moltres though, Enamorus, Valiant and Rillaboom rising up means it will continue to have a solid niche.

 

[VTMagno]

No but guys you don't understand we will never see another ban in OU this generation will forever be doomed (/s in case that wasn't clear)

 

[Tio Chico]

252 SpA Choice Specs Tera Fighting Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey: 342-404 (52.4 - 61.9%)
Who has the courage to try to land 2 hits in a row?
To avoid a 1-line post, think about the Freeze-Dry coverage that not even Tera Blast can give.