Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]

[KamenOH]

Hey there, everybody. Given some recent tweets alluding to potential Ubers drops, and the most recent suspect test, I was going to propose that one of the unfortunate souls dragged down to OU is Flutter Mane, but that is just plain stupid, because I can't think of anything that comes close to winning 1v1.

Hide

Our unholy lord lets us OHKO the beast with just 3 allies fainted.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 271-321 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However, because hazards are such a bitch this generation, we can generally assume
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 250-295 (99.6 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
is a possibility, thus meaning sweeps can be stopped mid-game. It, of course, is no counter, since even one switch in is a mystical fire risk, which hurts. Really badly.

So instead I thought of Annihilape

. Its ok-ish in-game, doing what azumarill does but slower, weaker, and cant do anything against current raid swarm blissey because rage fist doesn't proc. Honestly, I think it was shed tail that blew it out of proportion, letting it get free hits while still counting rage fist for some godforsaken reason, but now that free substitute is gone, it can't just absorb an attack or two and instead has to click drain punch to recover, which it might not want to do against things like Gholdengo or Valiant.
It does beat pre-tera gambit though, and thats a good thing for almost everyone.

Nothing too serious, just thought maybe we should let the ape escape Ubers.

 

[Moyashi]

Its ok-ish in-game, doing what azumarill does but slower,

No...? They aren't remotely comparable. Azumarill is a breaker that provides specific but important defensive utility for teams against key threats that are difficult to handle. Annihilape is a wincon that crushes bulky teams with taunt+bulk up, forcing them to attack directly and boosting rage fist. Those sted were bulky as fuck. Nothing really has changed.to make it more palatable overall.

Honestly, I think it was shed tail that blew it out of proportion, letting it get free hits while still counting rage fist for some godforsaken reason,

Rage fist does not get boosted if hit behind a substitute. Just like contact abilities don't go off of their user is behind subs. I don't know where you got this.

, it can't just absorb an attack or two and instead has to click drain punch to recover, which it might not want to do against things like Gholdengo or Valiant.

Gholdengo can't even handle Ape with tera in the picture, and Valiant famously got its match up flipped by tera also. Tera lets it easily force multiple trades just to KO it.

It's not a Pokemon we should consider unbanning unless major balancing was taken for Tera.

 

[Charles Darwin]

Hey there, everybody. Given some recent tweets alluding to potential Ubers drops, and the most recent suspect test, I was going to propose that one of the unfortunate souls dragged down to OU is Flutter Mane, but that is just plain stupid, because I can't think of anything that comes close to winning 1v1.

Hide

Our unholy lord lets us OHKO the beast with just 3 allies fainted.
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 271-321 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
However, because hazards are such a bitch this generation, we can generally assume
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flutter Mane: 250-295 (99.6 - 117.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
is a possibility, thus meaning sweeps can be stopped mid-game. It, of course, is no counter, since even one switch in is a mystical fire risk, which hurts. Really badly.

So instead I thought of Annihilape

. Its ok-ish in-game, doing what azumarill does but slower, weaker, and cant do anything against current raid swarm blissey because rage fist doesn't proc. Honestly, I think it was shed tail that blew it out of proportion, letting it get free hits while still counting rage fist for some godforsaken reason, but now that free substitute is gone, it can't just absorb an attack or two and instead has to click drain punch to recover, which it might not want to do against things like Gholdengo or Valiant.
It does beat pre-tera gambit though, and thats a good thing for almost everyone.

Nothing too serious, just thought maybe we should let the ape escape Ubers.

Absolutely not. I have no idea why we're comparing ingame viability against NPCs and raid bosses, because it's completely stupid. I won't even argue on this front. Let's just put it simply:

- stall gets completely crushed by Taunt/Bulk Up. It's impossible to outlast or outplay Ape, especially since it can uniquely boost past Unaware walls with Rage Fist.
- bulky styles struggle just as much. They aren't fast and strong enough to overwhelm Ape, nor can they chunk it down without boosting Rage Fist. Ape will almost always claim 1-2 kills or get massive damage off on multiple mons and once bulky teams have their core dismantled like that the game is over even if Ape goes down.
- offence technically has the best matchup, but one timely Tera and suddenly the Ape just murdered your best check and can oneshot anything it looks at.
- RestoChesto sets can end the game on the spot if you don't see it coming, especially if you were relying on fast status to cripple it.
- The closest thing we have to a counter are the legendary birds, but again, Chesto sets and Tera means they're never foolproof.

Basically nothing reliably beats Ape and dealing with it is a massive effort both ingame and in the teambuilder. I would be glad if it never saw the light of SVOU again.

 

[Floatstonemafia]

In fairness, you literally just also described ursaluna.

A) Crushes stall unless they run very specific counters (iron defense corviknight, driftblim).

B) runs over most bulky teams (frequently ends with you throwing mons into the grinder until it finally goes down)

C) Offense does match up well into ursaluna but still can lose 1-2 mons to it trying to beat it down because that thing is a fat fucker. This point is better for annihlape though, as ursaluna gets worn down easier and doesn't typically specialize it's tera type, just 'tera normal go brrrr'. But Tera Ghost is also decent on it, which gives it the ability to answer a faster fighting type move.

D) Same deal with QC ursaluna, if you don't read it and get unlucky on the QC , it's very easy to lose a check to it and then get run over. Not quite the same, but obnoxious enough that people are seriously suggesting a QC ban.

E) Yeah did I mention we're dredging NU to find shit that stops ursaluna?

 

[Magcargo]

It does beat pre-tera gambit though, and thats a good thing for almost everyone.

Scarf Final Gambit lets it kamikaze into almost anything thanks to its massive HP pool, which is arguably a buff to Gambit teams. Speed tiers + Hazards are a bit stricter now, but I think such a set would still be a massive pain to deal with if you swapped in, say, Tera Fairy Garganacl as a check.

I did mention Moltres + Zapdos as potential checks earlier, but Trick + Encore have also risen up in usage to potentially limit Ape. A play sequence of say... Ape switching into Toxapex -> Ape using Taunt as Pex uses Toxic -> Ape using Bulk Up as Pex switches out is prone to being punished by a well-timed Encore. However, there are several issues with this. Ape is faster than some notable Encore users like Dragonite, so it would be able to Taunt them before they can use Encore. Even against some of the faster Encore users like Iron Valiant, Ape can play around them by doing something like going for Taunt again instead of Bulk Up. Furthermore, the viability of such strategies hinge on Ape's Rage Fist not being boosted beforehand, whether it be from getting hit by a stray U-Turn, Infestation from Pex, etc. This isn't even taking account Tera, which lets Annihilape get a free power boost to its Rage Fist by weakening the damage it takes from moves like Dragapult's Shadow Ball.

Overall, you need to consistently walk such a thin tightrope to beat Annihilape that is so easy to slip up and fall off of, that I'd prefer to keep it banned and never allowed in SV OU again.

 

[Hpdsd]

In fairness, you literally just also described ursaluna.

A) Crushes stall unless they run very specific counters (iron defense corviknight, driftblim).

B) runs over most bulky teams (frequently ends with you throwing mons into the grinder until it finally goes down)

C) Offense does match up well into ursaluna but still can lose 1-2 mons to it trying to beat it down because that thing is a fat fucker. This point is better for annihlape though, as ursaluna gets worn down easier and doesn't typically specialize it's tera type, just 'tera normal go brrrr'. But Tera Ghost is also decent on it, which gives it the ability to answer a faster fighting type move.

D) Same deal with QC ursaluna, if you don't read it and get unlucky on the QC , it's very easy to lose a check to it and then get run over. Not quite the same, but obnoxious enough that people are seriously suggesting a QC ban.

E) Yeah did I mention we're dredging NU to find shit that stops ursaluna?

Well you know, there is a reason that basically every Stall Player advocates for an Ursaluna ban.

 

[Dreadfury]

Outside Great Tusk sometimes running Head Smash... What Pokemon in the tier can afford to slot rock moves on?

Basculegion was recently updated to include Head Smash as an option. It hits DNite and Bax.

 

[coral fan]

Outside Great Tusk sometimes running Head Smash... What Pokemon in the tier can afford to slot rock moves on?

Basculegion was recently updated to include Head Smash as an option. It hits DNite and Bax.

id also like to add these mons who tech rock moves alongside their current usages:
obvious pick for choiced or sd sets (42%)
can run stone edge as a zap+molt lure. (29%)
cool tech move thats been gaining usage (28%)
stone edge on mixed lo or sd chomp is a good option (8%)
(rock tomb also notable at 8%)

and much less notably...
i like edge on ting-lu though thats probably just me (<9%)
tera blast rock enamorus lures moltres so its like fine as 4th on choiced imo (<8%)

i think a lot of those usage rates could - and should - rise over time, to keep the kanto birds and enamorus in check :)

 

[ant4456]

it should not have taken like 6 replies to me for yall to realize that yes

running moves to beat specific pokemon is common if it literally fucking kills them

it is not a crazy opinion to look at how people prepare for a pokemon in order to see how much of an issue it is to build around

moltres can't be "anti meta" when the established meta already beats it, it's just a goodish option on some teams to check fairies and a few mons with burns, but also by usage largely they are not adapting to hit moltres because they don't need to

specs enamorus as rhe example above doesnt need tera rock to hit zapdos so it's not gonna be spammed, because moltres simply isn't enough of a problem

tusk would rather run spinner much more to hit zapdos, dragons, grounds and other Tera Flying physical attackers rather than hit moltres, which still rock hits at least the tera flying attackers, its just not worth it

here are examples of people adapting to pokemon that are actually problems to deal with for them

shit like leaf storm meowscarada, psyshock iron valiant to hit clodsire, chain chomp garchomp, substitute encore on like a shit ton of pokemon mostly for gambit, iron valiant essentially switching sets 70% because of glowking, lando t running grass knot for tusk and I think tera water garg

and thats not even talking about the ever switching teras people run just to stuff other metagame threats

idk where people here got the idea that people dont adapt to pokemon that are giving them trouble, they just do? especially when its a 4x weakness to a good attacking type? moltres just isn't worth spending more of your highly limited resources to easily kill, because it existing is not hard to deal with, it's just gonna be annoying to a few pokemon on some teams and then maybe pivot if it even runs uturn (I've seen some who don't lol)

moltres was tried in early crown tundra last gen and it was cool for similar reasons, but the same problems will happen imo, zapdos is way better and even teams that hate moltres can just pack a bit more knock off / rock moves and the guy is finished

sure zapdos takes a shit ton from rock moves but it also lives them, no 4x weakness. you know why you see Tusks running Head Smash and not Stone Edge?

4 Atk Great Tusk Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 278-328 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Great Tusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 186-220 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

moltres dies

4 Atk Great Tusk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 400-472 (104.4 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Moyashi]

idk where people here got the idea that people dont adapt to pokemon that are giving them trouble, they just do? especially when its a 4x weakness to a good attacking type? moltres just isn't worth spending more of your highly limited resources to easily kill, because it existing is not hard to deal with, it's just gonna be annoying to a few pokemon on some teams and then maybe pivot if it even runs uturn (I've seen some who don't lol)

No one said people don't adapt to Pokemon giving them trouble. What WAS said was that this context, the Pokemon in question does its job well enough to have a notable impact on the metagame. The general consensus is that Moltres is a good anti meta Pokemon.

You keep downplaying Moltres and saying it isn't worth resources to easily kill, but it's done its job well enough and saw a huge jump to A- on the VR. I don't know why you insist on trying to put it down.

moltres was tried in early crown tundra last gen and it was cool for similar reasons, but the same problems will happen imo, zapdos is way better and even teams that hate moltres can just pack a bit more knock off / rock moves and the guy is finished

Moltres wasn't just "tried", it was legitimately good. It ended up falling out of favor because of the direction the metagame trended in not really favoring it or needing its talents. There isn't that much knock off in the tier to begin with so it's quite different here.

Seriously. What is your deal with Molt? Why are you trying to downplay it so hard.

 

[Bakugames]

While I don't think moltres has the long term stay of zapdos, as its here to counter a meta trend and not be meta itself as someone else put it, currently it still is a good pick and I wanted to discuss the differences and similarities between it and zapdos, and the reasons one might pick one over the other. Sure, it could fall to ur next meta shift, but time will pass anyway, might as well enjoy some discussions while its still around :)

 

[Eeveeto]

Moltres is a Mon that will be viable (and OU by usage) in the meta as long as Enamorus is allowed. Its one of the very few Mons that resists Fairy while also being immune to Ground. It checks other things apart from Enamorus, but that is the main one. Having such bulk, Flame Body and slow U-Turn certainly helps too. Offensive sets are also unexplored yet, Specs in Rain should be good.

 

[awyp]

Moltres is a Mon that will be viable (and OU by usage) in the meta as long as Enamorus is allowed. Its one of the very few Mons that resists Fairy while also being immune to Ground. It checks other things apart from Enamorus, but that is the main one. Having such bulk, Flame Body and slow U-Turn certainly helps too. Offensive sets are also unexplored yet, Specs in Rain should be good.

Specs Moltres in rain?

 

[Eeveeto]

Specs Moltres in rain?

Hurricane is strong. There is not always Rain on the field, so Flamethrower/Overheat/Fire Blast can be usable outside of it. It has been used in BW in the past and I made it somewhat work in ORAS and SM too.

 

[658Greninja]

it should not have taken like 6 replies to me for yall to realize that yes

running moves to beat specific pokemon is common if it literally fucking kills them

it is not a crazy opinion to look at how people prepare for a pokemon in order to see how much of an issue it is to build around

moltres can't be "anti meta" when the established meta already beats it, it's just a goodish option on some teams to check fairies and a few mons with burns, but also by usage largely they are not adapting to hit moltres because they don't need to

specs enamorus as rhe example above doesnt need tera rock to hit zapdos so it's not gonna be spammed, because moltres simply isn't enough of a problem

tusk would rather run spinner much more to hit zapdos, dragons, grounds and other Tera Flying physical attackers rather than hit moltres, which still rock hits at least the tera flying attackers, its just not worth it

here are examples of people adapting to pokemon that are actually problems to deal with for them

shit like leaf storm meowscarada, psyshock iron valiant to hit clodsire, chain chomp garchomp, substitute encore on like a shit ton of pokemon mostly for gambit, iron valiant essentially switching sets 70% because of glowking, lando t running grass knot for tusk and I think tera water garg

and thats not even talking about the ever switching teras people run just to stuff other metagame threats

idk where people here got the idea that people dont adapt to pokemon that are giving them trouble, they just do? especially when its a 4x weakness to a good attacking type? moltres just isn't worth spending more of your highly limited resources to easily kill, because it existing is not hard to deal with, it's just gonna be annoying to a few pokemon on some teams and then maybe pivot if it even runs uturn (I've seen some who don't lol)

moltres was tried in early crown tundra last gen and it was cool for similar reasons, but the same problems will happen imo, zapdos is way better and even teams that hate moltres can just pack a bit more knock off / rock moves and the guy is finished

sure zapdos takes a shit ton from rock moves but it also lives them, no 4x weakness. you know why you see Tusks running Head Smash and not Stone Edge?

4 Atk Great Tusk Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 278-328 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 Atk Great Tusk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Zapdos: 186-220 (48.4 - 57.2%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

moltres dies

4 Atk Great Tusk Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Moltres: 400-472 (104.4 - 123.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Bro what mons are running rock moves specifically for Molt?

Lets see here.

Tusk occasionally runs Head Smash or SE. Head Smash halfs your HP while SE has mid accuracy. Also running those moves makes you deadweight against Lando who can just click rocks and beat you without fearing Ice Spinner.

Dnite learns Stone Edge but you’re never gonna have room for it anyways, because hitting Ghold, Gambit, Corv, and Lando are more important than OHKOing Molt.

nobody is running Specs Tera Rock Enam. Not only are choiced variants of Enam easy to play around, but if you Tera Rock, congrats, you can’t switch into Tusk anymore.

Chomp started running SE for Enam anyways. Also that is a you problem if you use Molt as a Chomp check.

Ghold learns Power Gem, but who tf is running that when you have other options like Focus Miss, Tbolt, or Dgleam? Also considering most NP Gholds run bulkier sets with enough speed for Gambit, you’re not outspeeding Molt anyways.

Gambit also learns Stone Edge, but it has no room to run it when its gonna wanna use Kowtow Cleave/Iron Head/Tera Blast/Low Kick.

Just like with Chomp, you aren’t gonna use Molt as a Lando check.

Why is Meow running Power Gem when you can just click Knock?

Moon runs SE these days, but Moon itself is also not very common. And if it is SE, its not running Acro or Crunch or EQ or Roost.

Ting-Lu can occasionally run SE, but why are you staying in on it with Molt?

Zama runs SE but only on Band and 4-Attacks Boots. Against ID + BP, it checks it perfectly fine. Even if it is SE, Zama isn’t really the most difficult mon to play around with using other mons like Ghold, Glowking, Pult, etc.

You’re downplaying the amount of mons Molt can switch into or check.

Being a Gambit check that can still burn Gambit even with Lum is huge.

While Knock is dangerous when tasked with checking Tusk/Valiant, having a high chance of neutralizing them with Flame Body is huge, and Booster Valiant is gonna switch out cause Molt will kill it, and Valiant without that +1 speed boost is much more manageable. It also walls Booster Tusk who still rarely runs rock moves cause beating Lando while still hitting Zapdos is more important.

As stated earlier, Ghold mostly runs bulkier variants and Scarf sets don’t even 3HKO it.

252 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 248+ SpD Moltres: 108-127 (28.1 - 33.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Checking Enamorus is also a big one. Its a check to it that isn’t passive. Even Glowking can sometimes lose to Tera Steel Sub-CM.

Molt can burn Dnite and let something else deal with it.

You’re also downplaying U-Turn in its ability to generate momentum. Its why Corv in this metagame still has merit despite not being able to Defog 90% of the time. You get hardwalled by Ghold, but you U-Turn on the telegraphed switch and you go into Samu. Free spikes, free progress. Also Corv is a great check into Sub-CM Enam with Iron Head since that set is never gonna be running Mystical Fire.

You also can’t forget that Moltres literally has the exact same SpA as Zapdos, it can absolutely afford to run more offensive oriented sets with dual stabs and U-Turn while still being fat enough to not lose its defensive utility.

There is more to the Zapdos vs Molt comparison.

Paralysis might be broken, but even a paralyzed Gambit is still a massive threat. A burnt Gambit on the other hand might as well not even exist. Cause halfing a physical attacker’s Atk is more impactful in a game. Not to mentions since Zapdos wants to run speed for Jolly Tusk, it wants to run 152 speed with timid, which cuts its bulk. Molt only needs 16 speed ivs for Gambit and can dump the rest into bulk or offenses.

Here’s a chart

Zapdos
-Better at checking Tusk and Zama
-Checks Samu while threatning an OHKO or Static proc
-Less vulnerable to Knock Off and Rocks
-Paralysis is more impactful against walls or special attackers
-Electric STAB deals more to Garg
-Electric/Flying is more threatening to the metagame offensively

Moltres
-Better at checking Booster Tusk
-Checks the fairies, Ghold, and Gambit
-Fire STAB doesn’t have any immunities other than Tran
-Burns are more impactful against physical attackers
-Can run physical STABs to truck Glowking harder due to its higher Atk stat and stronger physical STABs

Zapdos is better than Molt, but Molt is still a great mon in the meta for its niche. Being the best fairy check that can check Ghold, spread burns and pivot with U-Turn.

 

[Negative Charge]

What's up guys it's ya boi here and today I have got some real heat for y'all: Spewpa. I think Spewpa can carve out a small but meaningful niche in the metagame and I will describe it for you all in excruciating detail.

First up we have Spewpa's relatively rare pure Bug typing. Bug is fantastic in OU, you resist BOTH of Great Tusk's stabs.
252+ Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spewpa: 72-84 (24.4 - 28.5%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO

The most common mon in OU can only 4HKO you with its stabs. Crazy right?

Ok next we need to take a look at its diverse movepool of bug and normal moves. For example, it has bug bite, pounce, AND struggle bug. It also has access to tackle. In terms of setup options, you have both harden and iron defense, depending on how much defense you need in a turn which is really versatile. Further options include poison powder, and you also have stun spore to hit Heatran with. Spewpa also has the coveted Shed Skin ability, meaning your opponent's status conditions won't be sticking around for long!

Here are some sets I have been having success with:

Wall

Spewpa @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Harden
- Protect
- Struggle Bug

Utility

Spewpa @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poison Powder
- Stun Spore
- String Shot
- Tackle

Choice Band

Spewpa @ Choice Band
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Struggle Bug
- Pounce
- Tera Blast

In conclusion, I think that Spewpa can really get some work done in the pre-DLC OU metagame. We will have to see how this little fella fares against the DLC mons but I urge everyone to give Spewpa a chance!

 

[Morkal]

View attachment 543396
What's up guys it's ya boi here and today I have got some real heat for y'all: Spewpa. I think Spewpa can carve out a small but meaningful niche in the metagame and I will describe it for you all in excruciating detail.

First up we have Spewpa's relatively rare pure Bug typing. Bug is fantastic in OU, you resist BOTH of Great Tusk's stabs.
252+ Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Spewpa: 72-84 (24.4 - 28.5%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO

The most common mon in OU can only 4HKO you with its stabs. Crazy right?

Ok next we need to take a look at its diverse movepool of bug and normal moves. For example, it has bug bite, pounce, AND struggle bug. It also has access to tackle. In terms of setup options, you have both harden and iron defense, depending on how much defense you need in a turn which is really versatile. Further options include poison powder, and you also have stun spore to hit Heatran with. Spewpa also has the coveted Shed Skin ability, meaning your opponent's status conditions won't be sticking around for long!

Here are some sets I have been having success with:

Wall

Spewpa @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Harden
- Protect
- Struggle Bug

Utility

Spewpa @ Eviolite
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Poison Powder
- Stun Spore
- String Shot
- Tackle

Choice Band

Spewpa @ Choice Band
Ability: Shed Skin
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Struggle Bug
- Pounce
- Tera Blast

In conclusion, I think that Spewpa can really get some work done in the pre-DLC OU metagame. We will have to see how this little fella fares against the DLC mons but I urge everyone to give Spewpa a chance!

Obviously a great grouping of sets; but you left out one thing... It's outclassed by Kricketune

On another note though; I'd like to ask you all - how are you feeling about Hoopa-Unbound right now? Despite its monstrous power, I've found it to be personally... underwhelming

 

[1LDK]

On another note though; I'd like to ask you all - how are you feeling about Hoopa-Unbound right now? Despite its monstrous power, I've found it to be personally... underwhelming

It is kinda bad right now, the meta favors BO and HO, HO disintegrates Hoopa while BO usually packs something for it, in a more fat balance/stall meta (like gen 8 for example) would have been great. I do think that Hoopa on webs is cool, so you can Nasty Plot 3 attacks into whatever, and you're usually tanking a hit as long as it is not physical, but I'm bad at making webs, and webs are not very good right now due to Cinderace

Still, I like the mon, and a well positioned Choice specs hoopa literally OHKOs everything with the right move, it's so fun lmao

 

[DiscoDucky]

Obviously a great grouping of sets; but you left out one thing... It's outclassed by Kricketune
View attachment 543411

On another note though; I'd like to ask you all - how are you feeling about Hoopa-Unbound right now? Despite its monstrous power, I've found it to be personally... underwhelming

I remember reading a comment was made prior about how Hoopa-U's best set RN is the Assault Vest set

 

[Return to Zero]

On another note though; I'd like to ask you all - how are you feeling about Hoopa-Unbound right now? Despite its monstrous power, I've found it to be personally... underwhelming

Scarfed special sets scare me (which they may not have earned but surprise Choice Scarf always kinda throws me). Other than that, I'm in the same boat. I keep expecting the Choice Scarf, but when they don't have it and go for the physical sets instead, I end up being surprised by how easy it is to handle. It's slower than a lot of important OU mons and doesn't have the coverage to deal with a lot of them, especially since Psychic STAB is not exactly an asset right now.

 

[Napoli Burns]

Spewpa @ Eviolite

lol pls don't make him discover that exist eviolite or he will start posting """counters""" for all the ou pokemons based on calcs like

252 SpA Enamorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tinkatuff: 112-132 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

DuskRoc

like, this is actually usable for ou, tclaws is almost a free life orb, it can be used in a core with gambit for weakening his counters like tusk

write a wot on how duskroc is good for ou has a lot more sense than saying kricket is viable and ironically post calcs on tera fairy kricket vs dragon moves

 

[Daytime_lunar]

lol pls don't make him discover that exist eviolite or he will start posting """counters""" for all the ou pokemons based on calcs like

You do understand that this post was originally meant as a joke, right? like no one with half a braincell would actually bother to use spewpa in OU. It was purely a joke reply to people fighting over whether or not pure bug is a good typing.

 

[Napoli Burns]

You do understand that this post was originally meant as a joke, right? like no one with half a braincell would actually bother to use spewpa in OU. It was purely a joke reply to people fighting over whether or not pure bug is a good typing.

i was also ironic, don't jump on conclusions without being sure next time

i also love reacted the post, lmao

 

[coral fan]

resource: compact teambuilding checklist
bascially just VRs + my personal bias + usage bias + compact presentation

S
A
B
C

i found this really helpful for building, hopefully other people do too, but its need of an update so here it is:
again, based on VRs, my opinions, usage stats and now also wcop stats.

T16
T32
T48
T64
T80
T96

 

[Rias Gremory]

What are people's thoughts on fakeout u turn poison touch sneasler