Now hazards just sort of sit there chilling
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Personally not a fan of my hazard removal relying on Focus Miss to do its job. Go physical. Triple Arrow has a chance to OHKO offensive Gholdengo sets and still 2HKOs bulky ones. Also, physical makes U-turn and Knock Off do more chip damage.
i think defensive gholdengo is meta asf right now.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1876024903-7ple736minc89c395eomh949grqv8q5pw
Here’s a replay where it matches up against almost Every single Pokémon in a hyper offense team.
note: I didn’t match it up against valiant, because I was playing the 6-4 advantage as safe as possible lol. Even tried to bait a Tera type on the zamazenta-crowned. But gholdengo would MU against standard valiant sets
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1876024903-7ple736minc89c395eomh949grqv8q5pw
Here’s a replay where it matches up against almost Every single Pokémon in a hyper offense team.
note: I didn’t match it up against valiant, because I was playing the 6-4 advantage as safe as possible lol. Even tried to bait a Tera type on the zamazenta-crowned. But gholdengo would MU against standard valiant sets
To add to what andviet said, you can see the set on the team Vert posted here and in this RMT by Pinkacross. Keep in mind Dragapult is also blazing fast so you do get plenty of chances to put screens up even though you dont have prankster.
priority doesn't matter when you're the fastest mon in the metagame. Burn persists past a switch and Curse ruins someone's day more than parting shot and you don't have to get hit on switch in
i think that for the long-term health of the meta, spikes is something that is due some attention. the combination of their increased prevalence compared to other recent generations, and tusk being our only decent option in terms of removal, is very unhealthy. the result is stifled meta development (tusk on everything, anyone?), exacerbation of already-overwhelming threats, and a closing of the skill gap. they're just too easy to get up & keep up.
tera also is way overdue the boot. when the next suspect happens, though, it should be a binary choice between ban & no ban. it is incoherent to give tera such special treatment in an effort to "normalise" it, in contradiction of smogon's tiering philosophy.
tera also is way overdue the boot. when the next suspect happens, though, it should be a binary choice between ban & no ban. it is incoherent to give tera such special treatment in an effort to "normalise" it, in contradiction of smogon's tiering philosophy.
I wonder if Rocky Helmet is viable on Gholdengo. Seems like it would have been useful vs Zamazenta / Sneaseler.
I think Gholdengo is pretty good rn yeah.Really benefits from Kingambit disappearing for some reason. Chien Pao is still a bad MU, but it's one that Gholdengo can at least make progress in.
Appreciate it. Like I said I’ve never seen the pult set in S/V so all I can do is take y’all word for it. If the set is as good of a screener as grimm is then the only option worth discussing is lightclay (which again I don’t think we’ll ever get to in the home meta)
The root of the problem this Gen has always been the same, it’s never been easier to generate free turns and as long as Tera is still here unrestricted, that problem will exist.
Here’s another replay of gholdengo dismantling zamazenta/HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1876038778-11hpmiz8cptmkdsxulzixzwv20ig4qqpw
HO is close to running booster energy tusk just to deal with the fact that HO has no answer to spike stack spam from samurott
I thought it was for the funny. But Volcarona is being reviewed. That's wild
Major mechanical update: all the kamis’ signature moves get boosted to sure-hit in rain, (except Enamorus’ for some reason), WITHOUT having their accuracy lowered in sun. Why.
While you're right about the way the previous test gave Tera special treatment, part of me is hoping we actually get Tera Preview, because I think Tera Preview will help offense get even more of an advantage, contrary to popular belief that it will rein in the worst aspects of Tera. I think a Tera Preview meta could eventually lead to a ban of Tera when the DLCs arrive since offensive Pokemon will have more midgrounds to use against a wall's defensive Tera given that walls carry fewer attacks to hit an offensive Pokemon's Tera. As of now, we in the "Ban Tera" camp don't have enough support to muster through a ban, so we need something to worsen the meta state further to get what we want. I believe when we see that Tera Preview helps offense more than bulky playstyles that it could result in more people turning against Tera.
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Volcarona is high viability right now due to its matchup against the dogs and magearna.
the metagame is likely to become more hostile to it when it goes. Personal thoughts are:
act faster on:
- mag
- dogs
neutral speed on:
- ursaluna
-urshifu
slower on:
- dire claw / sneasler
- Volcarona
Cheryl.
Celesteela is Life
Specs Landorus-Therian will truly be the greatest rain tech of all time....
On a serious note, this probably buffs Thundurus the most as you can use a slightly more accurate Thunder outside of Rain while also reaping the benefits of a perfectly accurate 100 BP Electric move under the Rain. Torn-T would rather just go Hurricane I feel.
coming from the guy who said landorus-t wasnt gonna be important in this meta.
You also said Landorus-t wasnt “splashable” lol. It a ground immune pivot with intimidate, of course its splashable.
Anyways I feel with tera preview, people will view the mechanic as more manageable and people will favor it more. Right now its new so people are getting adjusted to it. With tera preview there are no uncertainties, so there can be more strategy to play around it.
I get it tho some people like tradition and tera doesn’t fit in that “classic” Pokemon mold. We will see how people feel about it as they get more used to playing with it.
You’re totally correct. Gholdengo seems to be coming back, and my feelings are mixed.
I never said Lando-T was not splashable. I said it wasn't as splashable (compared to the past and to great Tusk now). Your post was so obviously made in bad faith and misrepresented what I said. It is a fact that Landorus-Therian can no longer remove hazards, and that coupled with its wide movepool nerfs, makes it less easy to build with it since using Great Tusk and Landorus-Therian is stacking weaknesses. There is nothing wrong with stating that Landorus-Therian is less splashable than Great Tusk because in Gen 9, it's true.
Tera also isn't new anymore and people have played with it for over 6 months, so I wouldn't say people are still getting adjusted to it. Tera Preview may on the surface reduce uncertainty, but it leads to more guesswork around whether to Tera, and exposing a slower Pokemon's Tera Type increases the chances of offensive Pokemon outplaying the slower Pokemon's defensive Tera. Right now, some people are using slapping Ghost Tera on specific Pokemon to improve their Ursaluna matchup, but if the Ursaluna knows exactly what can use Tera Ghost, it increases the ability of the Ursaluna user to outplay that defensive use of Tera by using Crunch when someone is so obviously going to Tera Ghost. Don't get me wrong, Ursaluna will probably be quickbanned anyway, but Tera Preview will make threats like Ursaluna even more broken than they already are. As I've said before, offensive Pokemon carry more attacking moves and hence have more midground plays against defensive Pokemon's Tera compared to defensive Pokemon's options with reacting to an offensive Pokemon's Tera. Thus, revealing Tera Types can allow offensive teams to press their advantage more often than a defensive team can overcome the opponent's offenses.
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totally irrelevant to what i said on spikes, good job having no arguments. it's completely true - how about you address the reasoning behind my take, instead of casting it as absurd & hoping the other non-thinkers here smirk along with you?
We have no intention to ban Stored Power.
Yes, Stored Power may be broken on 2-3 Pokemon in the metagame. Espathra is one and Magearna looks to be another. You can argue a certain Baton Pass recipient could make-up a third as well if it were unrestricted. However, well over 60 Pokemon learn the move and a good chunk of those are otherwise viable even. This would never approach the burden of proof unless a drastic shift occurred.
This would be akin to asking for us to ban Bulk Up as it broke Palafin and Annihilape despite it being such a widely spread move. Sure, we like the utility of Magearna and preserving it would be awesome, but that argument could be applied to any Uber Pokemon (such as Palafin or Annihilape, for example) and we cannot exactly pick our battles bast on specific favorites or niches here.
Light Clay at least is more realistic and possible to justify. Even that I see as unlikely for now, but within our tiering system, it could be more possible to reach an actionable point.
could you please advise policy thoughts regarding moves and abilities that are contentious for “RNG” reasons and specifically reasons other than base power?
for example there seems to be quite a lot of discussion about dire claw. Curious how it’s seen considering it meets both conditions below:
- RNG move that may enable an equivalent scenario to kings rock cloyster, but;
- [currently] exclusive to one Pokémon
it’s a little different to last respects, because it appears the contention is around whether the 16% sleep will become uncompetitive or not. Most similar precedent I can think of is KR, although KR wasn’t exclusive to cloyster so it’s not really the same.
We would have to look into Sneasler until another Pokemon was broken with Dire Claw (and even then, it would depend on larger distribution and so on). There are no talks on banning Dire Claw, but rather Sneasler.
Banning moves is seldom appropriate or on-the-table. One-offs always go to the Pokemon and things like Stored Power would go to the Pokemon as well just as matters of consistent policy.
with only one pokémon using dire claw, it is currently impossible to disentangle the move from sneasler, thus sneasler would be the focus of any tiering action.
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