Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[658Greninja]

Ok, survey just dropped. Wanna gets some thoughts out of my head?

Alot of Melm talk rn, but I am on the side of don’t suspect. First off, its sets are Tect + Toxic, Pads Twave, and AV, however the former is its most common sets. Lets list off the pros and cons shall we

Tect + Toxic
Pros
-Lefties granting longevity
-Toxic against

is invaluable at punishing its checks and crippling them for its teammates, part of the reason why the set is so good.
-Protect is great for scouting potential options and stalling for toxic/lefties recovery.
-DIB/EQ/Toxic covers a large portion of the tier.

Cons
-

Without Zone support, it struggles to muscle past the Steels of the tier. Considering teams with Zone tend to easily lose momentum if played incorrectly, it doesn’t come with it as often.

Pads
Pros
-Avoids annoying Flame Body, Helmet and Static.
-Can potentially beat Ferro with T-Wave + Superpower.
-T-Wave cripples the steel birds, Pex and still cripples Volc.

Cons
-No lefties recovery
-Can’t muscle past

anymore.
-Needs speed investment to beat

which cuts its bulk.
-Even with T-Wave it still struggles to get past the steel birds.

AV
Pros
-Can 1v1 most of the tier.
-Can check Pult, Lele, and other special breakers.

Cons
-No lefties recovery
-Still can’t muscle past

-4MSS between Superpower, T-Punch, and Ice Punch

I am a firm believer that Melm is balanced due to its vulnerability to Knock, a wide array of checks, and most importantly, if it makes the wrong move, you potentially could “lose your Melmetal”. What I mean by this is if it clicks DiB and the opponent has a Flame Body Tran, or Zap. Lights out for this dude. We also have a number of mons that can take a hit or two from it like Shifu, Lando, and Chomp. PhysD Pex is also good at checking it. Not to mention it is a slow mfer. An amazing breaker but one that you can’t mash with like Lele. Thats all.

The ban Weav wagon has extinguished months ago. Not sure why Weav was on the survey. People learned that teams tailored around Beat Up Weav are very exploitable and hard to maintain, so the hype for Beat Up didn’t last. Band sets are still scary but with spike stacking teams on the rise, it has less opportunities to click buttons and Boots is the choice against and on those styles. The tier still has plenty of checks. Clef, Pex, Corv, Buzz, etc. There is also Tran who heavily discourages T-Axel. Still, Weav is the best cleaner and speed control option in the tier and a healthy part of it too.

Tran is the best mon rn. Forces progress, easily splashable, provides both offensive and defensive. However, I don’t think anything has changed this gen (besides no Gliscor) to make it suspect worthy. The power level is the same as Gen 6-7 and has more power creep than Gen 4 where Tran was anything but broken. The biggest reasons that it isn’t broken are the innacuracy of Magma Storm and the fact that it is also tasked with checking multiple threats for a team. Magma Storm’s 75 acc leads to some issues with inconsistentcy as a miss could be momental. As a defensive threat, Tran is going to be switching into alot of Shadow Balls, Psychics, Knocks, T-Waves, etc. On top of that it is very vulnerable to hazards (relevant cause spike stacking balances are very common rn) thus cutting off its chances to cause havoc. Compare this to something like Darkfu who only needs a few turns to break your whole team. Tran has alot of switch in opportunities, but it breaks your team much more slowly than anything broken ever did. There is also the 4MSS of it. Do you forgo rocks for Taunt or Toxic? Do you want Protect for more longevity or Heavy Slam to beat CM Clef? There is also Balloon Tran (the best set) who is less reliable at checking shit but is an absolute offensive behemoth, however plays with balloon promotes a skillful environment.

Complaining about Zone when it has hit its peak months ago. Also nothing has changed to make Zone broken. In fact it got nerfed transitioning to Gen 8. Very mu fishy and as stated earlier, teams with Zone aren’t the most consistent performers.

Bringing out Pex cause Bea brought it up as a potential suspect. I just don’t see that, especially as Pex isn’t as dominate as it was months ago. Alot of teams are well equipped with managing Pex. Be it status/knock sponges or Future Sight. The bulky water market is very saturated, and Pex has to compete with the qualities they bring to the table.

Also no, qc qd isn’t broken. Cheesy yes but very difficult to pull off a sweep with G-Bro and harder to keep it up if you lack the right moves or your in range of priority.

Imo this is the most balanced gens. Similar to Gen 3 and 4. Nothing strikes as restricting atm.

 

[pulsar512b]

IMO quick draw/quick claw are kind of like a less broken King's Rock- it'd be nice i guess if it got banned but its not really a huge deal & the objective case for it isn't super strong. not worth the time for me to argue about it tbh

 

[Xenocide88]

There is also Balloon Tran (the best set) who is less reliable at checking shit but is an absolute offensive behemoth, however plays with balloon promotes a skillful environment.

I agree a lot with this sentiment. Having an intact Air Balloon Tran changes how you and your opponent have to play much more than other Tran sets. Your Balloon doesn't often survive past midgame, but a lot of times it feels like an intact Balloon late game can create interesting checkmate situations vs grounds.

EDIT: I also agree with Heatran being the best mon in the tier (deadlocked with Lando imo), and I think the only match-up it really groans over is rain. Thankfully it does alright on the other weather structures that with good team building it doesn't have to feel like a liability if you want to go that route, and well built BO has a lot of answers to rain in things like Slowbro, Ferrothorn, and Torn for non-weather strats.

 

[Gefährlicher Random]

SCL Usage

| 22 | Magnezone | 20 | 8.40% | 45.00% |

SPL Usage

| 27 | Magnezone | 20 | 6.90% | 45.00% |

WCoP Usage

| 32 | Magnezone | 27 | 5.23% | 59.26% |

while i get that trapping in theory might be broken, this mon clearly isnt broken in practise, nor is it centralising and quite frankly you dont ''push the meta'' by just banning stuff you dont enjoy

 

[bbeeaa]

SCL Usage

| 22 | Magnezone | 20 | 8.40% | 45.00% |

SPL Usage

| 27 | Magnezone | 20 | 6.90% | 45.00% |

WCoP Usage

| 32 | Magnezone | 27 | 5.23% | 59.26% |

while i get that trapping in theory might be broken, this mon clearly isnt broken in practise, nor is it centralising and quite frankly you dont ''push the meta'' by just banning stuff you dont enjoy

just because it doesn't have a high usage doesn't mean it doesn't have to go, many times these pokemons restrict the teambuilder and nullify many ideas that could push the meta in a positive way, not to mention that trapping is not healthy and uncompetitive.

I also never said I don't enjoy it and it should be gone for that reason, I will be the best either way and I like using magnezone. Must read better

 

[Jonbot]

Gonna dump an interesting idea I’ve had and let people who are actually good at the game dissect it.


@ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Substitute

This set is an absolute nightmare for a lot of teams. This Pokemon’s ability to turn into completely free set up fodder is incredible, allowing it destroy a lot of common tanky Pokemon after a bulk up (and a sub preferably) like , magic guard , , , , and meaning it is a massive threat to fatter teams.

This set also has great defensive utility as well, being able to switch into all of the scalds flying around the tier and eat all of the choice and rain boosted attacks on rain teams. It completely blanks ’s surging strikes and ’s triple axel/beat up, while also threatening a weakened with a boosted close combat, making it a great user of substitute as all of the common multi hit moves are either ineffective or the Pokemon carrying them don’t want to face down . Substitute lets it to take a lot of attacks from offensive Pokemon like ’s psychic/giga drain and ’s leaf blade and hit them back hard, allowing it to take on more offensive teams. It can also be used to pivot into resisted strong attacks like ’s V-create. The previously mentioned rain mu is also great as ’s close combat doesn’t ohko poliwrath, allowing it to come in on a miss predict and still be alive later in the game to eat liquidation. It also 1v1s the occasional and the standard set.

But obviously has massive problems. It’s poor stats and fairy/flying weakness means that it struggles to get on the field against offensive teams packing Pokemon like and . It also isn’t a perfect against all bulky Pokemon, eg: and who completely wall it. doesn’t appreciate that lot of Pokemon either can pack moves that destroy it like psychic fangs or just destroy it on a miss predict like ’s close combat. It also isn’t perfect against rain teams as completely destroys and can threaten it with power whip. The lack of consistent recovery is also annoying as it can be worn down if isn’t switching into water attacks, meaning it can be threatened by some Pokemon it can normally handle like .

But overall, I think this set is very strong and is definitely worth taking a look at. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[remetagross]

how often is it that the 20% chance to move first once comes at just the right time to throw the entire game?

I just got swept by a Quick claw SD Kartana who happened to get its Quick claw triggered just when facing my Tornadus-T. Game over.

 

[Violet Raichu]

I just got swept by a Quick claw SD Kartana who happened to get its Quick claw triggered just when facing my Tornadus-T. Game over.

Haha, I mean yeah I feel that. But humans in general are more likely to remember extraordinary instances of an event than regular ones. That player you faced probably has 4 other examples of their Kart not activating the quick claw when they needed it and losing.

I lost a match once because I didn't get a burn after 13 scalds in a row. The chances of that happening are actually 0.97%. Doesn't even clear 1%. It was... frustrating to say the least, but mathematically it's the outlier, not the rule

 

[Magcargo]

While I understand the intent behind banning stuff like Quick Claw and Brightpoweder, I think the call to ban this stuff that barely has an effect on the metagame to be a bit too much. I know I was on board w/ banning Quick Claw before due to its high activation rate, but after thinking about it, is its activation rate really anymore of a problem than paralysis? Paralysis is a far more relevant mechanic that affects the outcome of the match, has a higher activation rate, and no one raises the concern that it is a broken mechanic. Yes paralysis has counterplay, like switching into Electric-types, but the same could be said for Quick Claw, such as priority and Knock Off. With King's Rock, I at least understood the logistics behind it as Skill Link + King's Rock gave its users 125 BP moves with a 41% chance to flinch the opponent, and Beat Up had good coverage + bypassed contact punishers like Rocky Helmet.

I was on board w/ banning Quick Claw + Quick Draw during the IoA metagame when G-Slowbro was a much better Pokemon and its Fire / Poison / Psychic coverage of its Nasty Plot set had far fewer reliable answers. However, the CT metagame has shown itself to be quite different from the IoA metagame and new answers to G-Slowbro like Heatran, as well as bulkier answers becoming more common, make grabbing a Nasty Plot boost and OHKOing its target far more difficult for G-Slowbro.

 

[InvisibleWater]

Wasn't there also a Belly Drum set that relied on QC+QD to sweep? I vaguely remember it being a thing during IoA, but it seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.

 

[Magcargo]

Wasn't there also a Belly Drum set that relied on QC+QD to sweep? I vaguely remember it being a thing during IoA, but it seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.

That's probably its best set atm and a set it could viably run during the IoA, but I always ran Nasty Plot as it was easier to set up and there was less risk if you failed to get the QC + QD to activate. Still, if you get that QD + QC Drain Punch, then it is probably stronger.

 

[Dreadfury]

Wasn't there also a Belly Drum set that relied on QC+QD to sweep?

Do you mean this?

Yeah, this set is absolutely just a shitty gimmick, but it's a shitty gimmick that kinda just actively plays with a GameShark 44% of the time. I don't think it's necessarily good, but I do think that Quick Draw/Quick Claw in part or as a whole are blatantly uncompetitive.

 

[Nuclearstomp]

I usually don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting), but I have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? Sure, it doesn't succeed very often, but when it does, it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player. There's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also, someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw, and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponent's speed), and also, it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis-inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure, you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam/thunderbolt or thunder wave thrown your way, but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Any mon in the game can run quick claw; outside of Slowbro-G, it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot, and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel these are points people weren't thinking about enough and wanted to share.

Edit: Updated to fix grammar and writing issues.

 

[willempju]

Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.

Because there exists plenty of stuff that is uncompetitive, in the sense that all it does is add RNG, such as Sand Attack, Confuse Ray or Attract, but which nobody seriously considers banning precisely because these moves do not help often enough to actually win games by using them.

 

[Nuclearstomp]

Because there exists plenty of stuff that is uncompetitive, in the sense that all it does is add RNG, such as Sand Attack, Confuse Ray or Attract, but which nobody seriously considers banning precisely because these moves do not help often enough to actually win games by using them.

Yknow honestly if those moves were tossed into the trash too then I certainly wouldn't complain.

 

[Red Raven]

Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponents speed) and also it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam / thunderbolt or thunder wave that gets thrown your way but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Literally any mon in the game can run quick claw, and outside of Slowbro-G it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think that the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw itself is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel like these were points people weren't really thinking too much about and wanted to share.

Imo, I think that pokemon is just an inherently not that good of a competitive game. I mean, battles can be decided whether or not a move connects with the enemy on a key turn. The guy who made the better move should win and not some missed hits but that's just me who plays a competitive game where rng doesn't have much of an impact

In terms with quick claw, its essentially the same thing as sand veil. It only adds more unnecessary rng to a game that is straight up rng dependent. Like sand veil, you cannot predict it entirely just as you mentioned. I'm even in complete disagreement that it has an opportunity cost as a reason to keep it around because while quick claw does have a cost, what if someone is crazy enough to use it and ends up winning battles

Lastly, I'm not too sure if the council would do something like quick claw + draw ban specifically. It's too similar to the drizzle swim ban they had a couple generations back and from the videos I've watched about gen five, it just opened up a can of worms

 

[Bakugames]

Could not care less about quick claw ban, but I think comparing qcqd to the gen 5 drizzle ban is inadequate: one is just an unnecessary complex ban to preserve an item no one will use beyond a haha funny on melmetal, the other was a big blow to a weather type in the weathers war generation. The viability of rain changing also shifted how good sun and sand (and hail lol) were, etc etc.

I feel like if you really want to suspect something (there's only 4 months left of this gen, remember), decide on if something like weavile is bad enough, otherwise I think we just gotta take the L on this gen

 

[Xenocide88]

Normally I don't reply to smogon threads (I just read them because I find the conversation interesting) but I just have to ask, what does the viability of quick claw have to do with it being uncompetitive? I mean sure, it doesn't succeed very often but when it does it's just a detriment to the game for the opposing player, there's no real merit in keeping it around.

Also someone pointed out that paralysis is similar to quick claw and while it's a good point, I only somewhat agree. Paralysis at least has a secondary benefit (lowering the opponents speed) and also it's possible to know what mons can run paralysis inducing moves in the opposing team.

Sure you can't plan for every random paralysis chance from a body slam / thunderbolt or thunder wave that gets thrown your way but you'll at least have an idea that it can happen. Literally any mon in the game can run quick claw, and outside of Slowbro-G it's entirely unpredictable.

Aside from that, I think that the combination of Quick Claw / Quick Draw itself is an entirely different problem that needs to be evaluated separately.

Take what I wrote with a grain of salt because I'm an idiot and I don't have much at stake whether or not it gets banned. However, I feel like these were points people weren't really thinking too much about and wanted to share.

I agree with everything you said. I think people conflate the idea that because it's not dominating that it's somehow not uncompetitive, both those two concepts are not mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be broken and at the top of the ladder for it to present issues when it comes to the competitive spirit of the game.

 

[sunbhie]

With OLT I see A LOT of high rank stall games. I guess stall is not so bad anymore.

 

[AM]

With OLT I see A LOT of high rank stall games. I guess stall is not so bad anymore.

Never was, or at least as bad as people describe it, you guys just let the forums dictate your opinions/stances.

 

[Internal]

Never was, or at least as bad as people describe it, you guys just let the forums dictate your opinions/stances.

I agree with this, a lot of people often rely on others and change their stances and opinions on certain mons/the meta based on what others say, it's pretty sad. Although, I do genuinely think stall never struggled as bad as people said it did last year too, but everyone was just riding the wave.

 

[Lord Xen III]

There are /were several influential players arguing that stall is Medicore.


You only need to go back a couple of months in this very thread for examples.


Overtime stall builds started adjusting to the usual suspects though I've noticed.

 

[Deleted User 595640]

Echoed Voice Primarina absolutely smashes stall if you are running into a bunch of that. 2HKO toxapex and blobs. just melts any non-shedinja teams.


Primarina @ Metronome
Ability: Liquid Voice
EV IV I forget
- Echoed Voice
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1637769467-bdt0azjbao428c6lce5t918xidqurn8pw

 

[kosecant]

Echoed Voice Primarina absolutely smashes stall if you are running into a bunch of that. 2HKO toxapex and blobs. just melts any non-shedinja teams.


Primarina @ Metronome
Ability: Liquid Voice
EV IV I forget
- Echoed Voice
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1637769467-bdt0azjbao428c6lce5t918xidqurn8pw

I’m still mad that liquid voice doesn’t give a power boost unlike literally every -ize ability, despite being objectively inferior even if it did

 

[airfare]

hi. it's been a while since i posted here but as the gen closes out with olt and scl i thought it would be interesting to skim through my complete teambuilder throughout all the metas of this generation, from dynamax to the current one. it was fun to try and categorize all these clusters of teams into different metagames and i'll be highlighting some of the really impactful ones or self-built ones that i enjoyed creating or playing with. everything's linked, click on the pictures of everything for imports. i think it's also worth noting that i didn't really learn how to build effectively at all until after the beginning of dlc2 so don't put too much thought into some of the earlier teams that i made mostly for fun on ladder

here are the pre-dlc, dlc1, and dlc2 onward team dumps from my own builder that i separated out

dynamax meta

dmax meta teams

a lot of these, as well as the rest of the pre dlc teams, were built with help from a non-smogon using friend, seasons

if we're being real i don't remember shit about this metagame at all. i remember starting the gen with a ddpult team day 1 that i really enjoyed, going for reqs with a double moody + togekiss + ditto + something team and getting locked a few times, and not much else besides the basics of shit like gyarados and bu corv and rain and ho being broken everywhere. dmax is an uncompetitive joke that shouldnt belong in most tiers

pre-home meta

prehome teams

from what i remember of this wholesome pre-kyurem, pre-zeraora, pre-wishport clef meta, it was really fun. after the gdarm ban there was a ton of diversity in terms of which archetypes were viable and which breakers were primarily being used: some of the best ones being offensive clefable, sand and ghost spam, as well as random good mons like diggersby, primarina, and kommo-o making somewhat often appearances as niche breakers that could maneuver around the rotoms and corvs everyone was choosing to spam defensively. i wish i remembered more about how this meta played but most of my time was spent on inting on ladder with this awful flapple team me and seasons had built together. i distinctly remember using it to hit 2000 for my first time this generation:

post home meta

post home teams

i had a love-hate relationship with this meta. having such a polarizing and restrictive meta with some of the major players all being broken was interesting in that a lot of the matchups were really even, leading to interesting and competitive games, but also they were really fucking dumb because you could lose to one double switch or over prediction vs things like conkeldurr and kyurem. the first several teams in this dump are all really really standard looking balances: wishport clef, corviknight, water type, fill in with customized offense and a rocker where it was needed. beyond there, i started experimenting with other playstyles like ho and stall before finding a few ideas i liked:


this team was my introduction to the offensive threat + kyurem check that is broken snorlax. you will see him more later, even past post-home meta


i don't remember who made this six first: i do remember brouha and myjava introducing the vap + hatt + lax defensive core core to me before i took some whacks at building my own team with it. it was interesting to have seen helpinghans' similarly structured RMT emerge at the end of pre-dlc meta but there were a lot of things i liked about it. in addition to having lax as the primary special wall, darmanitan proved itself to be one of the scariest breakers of this metagame, as long as you clicked rock slide or scouted otherwise on toxapex's bunker... but this is definitely one of my favorite teams of this meta and definitely a teambuilding experience i remember enjoying. there are a few more versions of lax + vap + a different fairy or lax + hatt + a different water sprinkled in through the rest of the gen.

normally i would add a new section for post-starters HAs but i don't want to make a new spoiler so i will include them here. dracovish leaving + libero cinderace coming was definitely, alongside kyurem, actually didn't change a ton for teams defensively besides mandating hippowdon on every one. you will see a team with hippopotas + hippowdon to make this even easier.


this team is my ss ou masterpiece, built with kings sparkwings Gomi Skypenguin and maybe someone else. it's noteworthy that this clef is not protect or wishport, as removing lefties from all of opposing clef/pex/hippo etc is extremely valuable for this offensive core revolving around switching in kyurem 50 times. keld is a fun last because, with its scarf, it checked shell smash cloyster and also was able to revenge opposing cind well and resisted ice beam. definitely one of my favorite and most memorable ss ou teams and a great one to end the gen with

very early dlc1

very early dlc1 teams
this meta was kind of interesting: releasing a new set of dlc mons and previous ou staples like slowbro, alakazam, starmie, volcarona, etc made the first few weeks pretty fun to play. obviously, the biggest initial changes came from the reintroduction of cinderace, magearna, and urshifu. unfortunately, my dumbass deleted most of the teams containing at least cind and mag, although the urshifu ones are still there. you'll see a lot of alowak at the very beginning of the meta, because nothing can switch into it, before the tier eventually devolves into a lot of weather wars and ferro spikes battles.

rest of dlc1

dlc1 teams

i think most people identify this meta with the wcop and olt of that 2020 summer. i think this is one of my least favorite metas in this entire gen: it was heavily characterized by a lot of the dumb pivoting coming from insanely dominant boots pivots like dragapult, cind, and zera. i distinctly remember this six below being one of the major standard spikes builds a lot of people were choosing to spam:



another aspect outside of spikes/sand wars was that sun was actually viable, and there was a ton of innovation in hyper offense around the period of that olt. i'm sure everybody playing around then remembers this team plaguing ladder for months lol



there was also some interesting innovation in the form of ttar + exca sands returning and utilizing amoonguss as a good check to magearna, rillaboom, and some other threats:

one last interesting thing about this meta was that i think for a lot of people this was a return to kyurem being busted: a lot more people were experimenting with non-specs sets since clef was running less spdef and much less wishport, like sub+dd, while others were simply choosing to remain with specs and blow past everything. this team from ox the fox below is one i remember particularly well because of its synergy with watershifu and amoonguss' sleep, as well as pivoting support from other team members

i don't really remember specifically how the cind/mag bans affected the tier sorry

early dlc2

i apologize i deleted all my teams with the broken banned mons (genesect naga kyub zyg etc) but just know this meta was ass!!!! pheromosa was broken no matter what mfs tell u!

cind+mag+spect meta

the teams

this meta was kind of interesting. the three mons im obviously highlighting here are the three big brokens, cind magearna and spectrier. interestingly gking started getting use because it could switch into specs magearna, while defensively almost every team had some variant of hydreigon or mandibuzz+pult or bliss+pult or zarude or some other bs way of dealing with the brokenness that came from ou's biggest demon spectrier. i'm glad that mon was banned before cind and mag. defensively there was a lot more slowbro and fs reliant offenses, as well as spdef tran to help hold off cind and mag respectively. besides that there wasn't really a ton different: ho was a lot more viable when it had whatever magearna set it wanted and the demon lo cinderace at its disposal, which is why outside of a few select teams ho wasn't really run until post bans olt later that year. that ben gay team dump gave everyone some cool ideas and cores to incorporate into their own builds, this one especially being memorable to me



this 6 below was another perfect example of the slowtwin-enabled voltturn offense thing i'd mentioned when specs mag and cind were both still in the tier, a pretty popular structure in that spl



seeing that wcar alt's name in my builder now is pretty funny too lol

majority of 2021 post cind+mag ban and pre kyu ban

teams

this span of several months was really diverse. lots of every archetype being used, but there were a couple major shifts happening during/after 2021's wcop and olt. a lot of the teams in my builder at this time were made for teambuilding lab.



this was a pretty iconic fat built either for spl or wcop 2021, and one of the only successful teams with reuniclus throughout the whole gen. this same 6, and edits of it with torn > clef would reappear often later in the gen

i hate this team with every fiber in my body. idiot Tricking ruined the ladder for months



this is definitely one of my top 3 teams i've created myself throughout the entire gen. kenix and ewin had created concepts of cress+kyu in the past but this was a permutation with a lot of the defense i wanted while keeping a lot of cool offense with roar tran and the pp stall element. my teambuilding lab explanation

rn i'm scrolling past that one fv rilla+sash weav+scizor+volc ho and the talah moltres sand team and the empo ghost spam that were really common during this spring/summer 2021 era

with wcop came some cool additions - people started using buzzwole as a physical wall to the terrifying dark types, cb bisharp and weavile, that had been plaguing the tier for a little while. spikes mew was a short fad to decimate fatter teams and keep em up vs most defoggers. i don't remember who made the first veil, whether it was bea or separation or someone else but that eventually popped up. people started fucking with kyurem sets once again, which would naturally begin the calls for its ban a few months later

probably the biggest and most recognizable meta shift of 2021 was hail becoming a thing. definitely one of the most recognizable teams of ss ou, and contributed a lot to the steel spam/huge drop in corviknight usage in favor of things like melmetal and ferrothorn that ensued later



this team i made is absolutely my favorite this generation. i spammed this one and hail in stour like my life depended on it. here's the teambuilding lab explanation



some other recognizable teams from that era that hopefully bring back some positive (or painful) memories


i used this one for reqs like 3 times



it seems like this last team was the one to push kyurem over the edge, leading to our last meta?

2022 meta

2022 teams

this gen has been really interesting to reflect upon, with all of the dlc differentiating it entirely from any other developing gen in the past. now's the time for some airfare propaganda: i want to talk about some thoughts on the current metagame and what led up to it/how it can perhaps be improved. 2022 was composed of mostly more minor meta shifts that pushed individual offensive cores in and out of favor. i cba to drop any more teams (they're all in that dump) but i would argue that there's one more major meta shift starting in 2022 that continues to this day. as a ss ou builder, i don't have too much issue building for mons like weavile or heatran. i have slightly more issues building for kartana, dragapult, and tapu lele. but i have the most issue by far building for stall.

in previous gens, even when your team doesn't have a wallbreaker to blow stall teams open, you can rely on consistent damage from hazards and momentum to rack up damage on walls and place them into range of the offensive mons you do have. even when facing something like mega sableye or a consistent defogger like gliscor, there are plenty of tools to let offense overcome a constantly-switching team of seemingly unbreakable walls. ss turned that on its head by removing pursuit and adding heavy-duty boots. it's nearly impossible to make progress vs these stall teams, as we've seen during this olt, wcop, and stour, unless one has an extremely polarizing breaker like specs lele or a rocks heatran to attempt to make minute progress against the common defog corviknight. there is nearly no risk required for the stall user in scouting even supereffective hits from things like a non-specs tapu lele or koko with regenerator users and games often feel entirely futile for the non-stall user. there aren't even really individual breakers like manaphy or hoopa in past gens that one can choose to solve a stall matchup - things like haxorus and lo weavile come close but are ultimately unreliable vs toxapex and unaware clef respectively. this isn't really an easy problem to solve but i do genuinely believe that stall in its current state is stronger and more consistent than it should be vs the entire metagame. using special breakers besides lele (ghost spam, things like zapdos, rotom cores, nidoking, volcarona), are otherwise healthy offensive answers to offense and balance teams but absolutely fall flat against prepared stall. it's a pretty polarizing archetype that requires the majority of its outplaying to happen in the teambuilder if facing a competent opponent. i'm not sure if i'd call it broken but i think it's worth thinking about any possible tiering action that could help combat this otherwise noninteractive archetype.

tldr unban bright powder

i hope this post helped some ss players reminisce about the glorious dracovish or spectrier metagames or some new players learn about the differences that came with ss tiering and the cash grab that is downloadable content. after finishing the rest of my individual and team tours i joined, i'm planning on taking a break from smogon and discord for either the next few months or indefinitely and want to shout out some users that have made my time on this site worth spending:

s/os

brouha Gomi Skypenguin FU SHUN HA Kaif u guys are all some of my earliest friends on this website and undoubtedly the best. thanks for being consistent voices of reason and humor when i need it

p****cord u know i love u 413X Hypertonix blittius BluBirD Chiles Habaneros epsilon_xd Fakee nick pastagirl @ chief keef Mom Lover zioziotrip pattek Ewin jonas Kyo Mr.378 QWILY peap power pqs simp William Seasons @ voldemort tigers jaw

my senseis and/or team suppliers that have helped me improve immensely in non-SS OU tiers: Century Express Caetano93 ElectricityCat Lasen McCoolDude Mr.378 Fakee Iris and many more i'm probably forgetting

and lastly two amazing team servers i've had the opportunity to contribute in within the last several months:

cryonicles keep your eyes peeled for my return and rightful claim to my manager spot this winter Gingy Triangles Endill Koalacance Raichy Conflict Exiline Groudon Jytcampbell Kristyl Lusa mncmt @ nalorium i guess Reje Spl4sh Splash Stareal Storm Zone crayon pop Ojama

and us south, thanks for the awesome wcop season Bouff TPP Stone_Cold FlamingVictini TDK Gray pdt Clone Eo Ut Mortus FMG HSA Ox the Fox Samqian Xrn

sparkwings simp revive puto

edit: somehow this is also my 1000th post lol