Ladies and gentlemen we did it we now have banned all the bullshitTo add onto Floss's post we're also going to be looking at Focus Band after a few people brought it up here. Focus Band has a 10% chance of allowing the holder to withstand any attack at any HP% multiple times. Much like King's Rock, Brightpowder, Lax Incense, and Quick Claw it is a luck based item as well that can have tremendous benefits if it triggers, so we're going to be dealing with it in the same fashion.
Y’all cannot be losing to Focus BandTo add onto Floss's post we're also going to be looking at Focus Band after a few people brought it up here. Focus Band has a 10% chance of allowing the holder to withstand any attack at any HP% multiple times. Much like King's Rock, Brightpowder, Lax Incense, and Quick Claw it is a luck based item as well that can have tremendous benefits if it triggers, so we're going to be dealing with it in the same fashion.
Nah but it feels right to ban all bullshit not someY’all cannot be losing to Focus Band
Into the thick of it! ♫♫To add onto Floss's post we're also going to be looking at Focus Band after a few people brought it up here. Focus Band has a 10% chance of allowing the holder to withstand any attack at any HP% multiple times. Much like King's Rock, Brightpowder, Lax Incense, and Quick Claw it is a luck based item as well that can have tremendous benefits if it triggers, so we're going to be dealing with it in the same fashion.
This diesn't make much sense.I don't see how this is a power move when it's an attempt to make the game better but u do u fam. Serene's Grace (an other abilitie's like Flame Body, Static, etc) are things that are actually prevalent and have actual uses. You SHOULD be prepping for these in teambuilding. Obviously not building solely to beat it but if your team loses because you get flinched down and you never had a check to it, that's on you and the bad teambuilding. These items are dumb because you can't prepare for them and they offer nothing but rng and saving players that shouldn't be saved. You can't prep for kings rock or bright powder.
Also it doesn't matter if it's a new problem or old one, it's still a problem. There's so many cases were stuff is fixed after being non-existent but it's realized it's kinda a problem.
I know the last few posts I've basically screamed over an over that it's uncompetitive and needs to go due to luck reliance an not rewarding skill, and imma do it again here. imho it's an extremely simple problem that can simply be fixed, I'm not understanding the arguments against it tbh.
pls boot
Although I know this debate is very controversial and many have argued on each sides I think the main premise as to why(Ok if you didn't understand I really like ditto bright powder so please don't ban bright powder ? :) )
These situations occur far too often for users of these items and is probably the most uncompetitive thing. Since competitveness aims to minimize not completely remove RNG, I don't think these items should stay.My Argument against Quick Claw: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8monotype-1347435708-g2ye4w8zbxyvr1twoigicravigpp2c2pw.
My issue with the rng items is that it introduces situations that ordinarily would not be determined by rng fully dependent on getting the lucky percentage chance to win the game and punishing players for making the right plays. "You've set up a volcarona to be at +2, taken out my cradily and are set up to sweep me? Well its your fault that I brought a quick claw rock slide zarude and have the power of anime on my side!" or "Oh, I've failed to take out the opposing toxapex with my kyurem, which is now weakened and I've just shell smashed my cloyster while pex is staring me down. Better pray that I get flinches off of moves that shouldn't flinch and they don't even know that is a part of this equation!" this just sounds absurd to me to have that be a factor in a competitive metagame.
The largest reason is probably that Decem has less time to address the meta's issues due to college (this is the reason they changed leaders). In addition, the uncompetitiveness of these items are far less significant than the presence of monsters like Urshifu-S and Dracovish, not to mention the potential ban of Band Melm and Specs Zapdos. The council wanted to see how to meta develops with these pokemon which is why they haven't had enough time to deal with things. Right now, the meta has settled nicely and issues like these items were addressed. I will not be surprised if arena trap/shadow tag or sand veil/snow cloak will be next.My biggest question is why now? Why does this matter now?
Or the fact that our biggest and hallmark tournament MPL is about to start and they want the best competitive gameplay on display.The largest reason is probably that Decem has less time to address the meta's issues due to college (this is the reason they changed leaders). In addition, the uncompetitiveness of these items are far less significant than the presence of monsters like Urshifu-S and Dracovish, not to mention the potential ban of Band Melm and Specs Zapdos. The council wanted to see how to meta develops with these pokemon which is why they haven't had enough time to deal with things. Right now, the meta has settled nicely and issues like these items were addressed. I will not be surprised if arena trap/shadow tag or sand veil/snow cloak will be next.
One thing that I would like to add to Decem's post is that physically offensive checks to Zapdos are risky as well, which not only limits defensive but offensive counterplay as well. The main reason why I say this is because of the main ability that specs Zapdos runs, which is Static. I'm not saying that this ability makes Zapdos broken or by itself problematic, its just another factor to consider when we talk about a pokemon that already has two unviable switchins with lanturn and rhyperior. Zapdos sits at a respectable base 100 speed stat, when combined with respectable natural bulk with 90/85/90 defenses and a solid defensive typing, even specs can survive one or two hits without rocks up which is not only crucial for smacking the opponent into the next plane of existence, but potentially crippling the opponent's offensive check if it does secure the K.O on Zapdos when static activates, which can be game changing on certain matchups like when static activates on Dragonite vs flying, Barraskewda vs water, or on a U-Turn from something like Lando-T or other common U-Turning mons to try and gain momentum. This alone wouldn't make Zapdos broken, but the lack of widespread counterplay for most types to handle Zapdos's offensive coverage and just wallbreaking power makes it worth a suspect test imho.
I would like to bring up Zapdos for discussion. I believe it's been an unhealthy element in this metagame for a while now so I would like to hear more thoughts regarding it and Electric's presence. I'm sure a lot of people who play Monotype tournaments are familiar with Electric especially given it was the most used type in Monotype World Cup. I also think Melmetal is something worth looking at, but Zapdos is a more urgent concern and has a bigger effect on the metagame.
Electric is an insanely strong type in Monotype with great consistency. Volt Switch spam combined with strong breakers is a reliable way to efficiently a ton of stuff. Choice Specs Zapdos is an absurdly strong breaker that I believe pushes Electric over the edge and centralizes the metagame. Hurricane + Heat Wave + Volt Switch shits on 99% of the tier, with some types like Dragon, Ground, and Water not having reliable switchins to Hurricane at all. Pokemon like Galarian Slowking and Tyranitar simply get Volted on and taken advantage of by one of Zapdos's friends, mainly Zeraora. Common threats like Hydreigon, Landorus-T, Nidoking, and Dragapult simply get OHKO'd while nothing else can really switch into it in fear of getting 2HKO'd or getting Volted on. The only Pokemon that can switch into all of Zapdos's attacks and prevent it from generating momentum are Rhyperior and Lanturn, which are rare and are only used in Monotype for the sole purpose of countering Zapdos and would never be used otherwise.
Hurricane is unreliable, sitting at a mere 70% accuracy, but this only means some games literally turn into dice rolls between whether Hurricane hits or not. I find the fact that sometimes Zapdos counterplay is literally just "switch in this Pokemon that gets 2HKO'd and hope Hurricane misses" problematic. For example, loading up Ground against Zapdos can be summarized into fishing for misses with Excadrill since pretty much everything else dies to Hurricane. I'm not saying banning Zapdos would change the way Electric works because in the end, it's still just Volt Switch offense spam. However, I do think Zapdos pushes it over the edge where it usually can just come in, click Hurricane and 1. claim a Pokemon provided it hits Hurricane because sturdy Flying resists are scarce or 2. click Volt Switch if it comes across something that walls it so Zeraora can beat it. Personally I feel like building SS Monotype is a huge headache as of now because you have to literally go out of your way a majority of the time to accurately account for a Pokemon that has 2 switchins in the entire metagame and is supported by excellent offensive synergy. It's also depressing to see games come down to whether or not Hurricane misses/confuses and not really who played better because it's easy to get Zapdos in a good position and start clicking due to its good speed tier.
Choice Specs Zapdos has been a concern in Monotype for a while now and I'd love to hear more on this topic. It and Electric's presence has made SS Monotype unenjoyable to build and play for me and I'd love to see it suspected sometime soon.
Point 1: In tournaments like Seasonals and MWCOP electric has one of the highest usages which is partially thanks to Specs Zapdos, we haven't seen any usage stats for MPL because week 1 just now started. The ladder experience varies from player to player, I've seen plenty of electric spam high ladder and I've been in and out of the top 10 since December without putting that much effort in. I don't talk about it that much because the ladder experience is very different than what you might see at the highest level play during the beforementioned tournaments.Point 1: how common a type is a tournaments, ladder, etc does not mean it needs to get nerfed. I very very rarely see electric in high ladder. Its a low-mid ladder type.
Point 2: just because some types don't have ez switch ins for a mon doesn't mean anything. What does electric have to switch in against pult, excadrill, kyurem, hydregion, diggersby, I can go on forever.
Point 3: hurricane has horrible accuracy it is in itself a nerf.
Point 4: I am by far the highest ranked electric player...I don't even use specs zapdos. Again its not that good. If it was I would use it.
Point 5: Specs zapdos is easily worn down by rocks
point 6: If zapdos was truly OP why is it so rare on flying?
Point 7: banning zapdos would make electric a trash type. it wouldn't just nerf it it would make it unviable. You wanna talk about depressing? Imagine fighting scarfed moldbreaker excadrills without zapdos.
Point 7: banning zapdos would make electric a trash type. it wouldn't just nerf it it would make it unviable. You wanna talk about depressing? Imagine fighting scarfed moldbreaker excadrills without zapdos.
not gonna comment all all of your points but to make it clear that u should NEVER hesitate banning a possibly broken/overcentralizing mon to preserve a playstyle. thats never how it works. if so we would be allowing marshadow on ghost and fighting to make them less dogshit, pheromosa on bug to make it usable- you get the point. just because electric may become shit after we ban zapdos should not hold any weight in this argument here. all we should b focusing on is the question on whether zapdos is truly banworthy or not. if it means keeping the meta healthy, there should b no question in banning smth even if it means the team structure(type in this case) it finds itself on becomes bad. a lot of other ppl already commented on your other points but this 1 is clearly the most egregious of them all and is not a real argument to keep zapdos.7) You cant use this argument that " Electric is an insanely strong type in Monotype with great consistency. " and not accept counterarguments about how much it would suck if it was banned.
thundurus is not a replacement for zapdos. Electric would not be fine without zapdos. It would stuck in low tier...which would be super nice for flying. a type you main coincidently huh...
1. I was pointing out that your observations on electric's place in the metagame were flawed.1) again the commonness of electric means little and if anything is a good thing. Would 0 usage be better? if so just ban zapdos and you'll get that.
2) An extremely niche version of magnezone being a counter to excadrill is silly. I can make custom assault vest versions of numerous mons to counter zapdos. you can do that with any mon.
3) hurricane is a high risk high reward move. If it had 100% accuracy I would see where you're coming from but the idea that you could lose potentially your own ground counter if you miss is very risky and often causes hesitation about just spamming hurricane.
4) point 4 isn't just about me. My point is that running specs zapdos creates a very powerful pokemon but the loss of defensive zapdos pivot makes electric a lot less useful in numerous situations.
5) electric has like 1 defogger and 1 horrible rapid spinner. I think yall can handle it.
6) maybe we should look at Celesteela
7) You cant use this argument that " Electric is an insanely strong type in Monotype with great consistency. " and not accept counterarguments about how much it would suck if it was banned.
thundurus is not a replacement for zapdos. Electric would not be fine without zapdos. It would stuck in low tier...which would be super nice for flying. a type you main coincidently huh...
looking over bias is part of the reason why i argue for a suspect. I would love to keep it cause it makes flying very easy to play in certain MU. But banning it probably would create a way healthier metagame. Right now Electric is very much the center of the meta and not an "anti meta" pick. Flying Steel and Water being good is part of its strenght, but having no good checks for the Zeraora+Zapdos combo for example just pushes it over the top. Especially given that Zapdos can get Zera in with tempoElectric is likely common in tournaments because it’s a good anti meta type. It does well versus the most common types ie steel flying and water. That makes it a wise choice in a tournament. This is the issue with assigning meaning to how common a type is in tours.
youre frequent usage of flying is not irrelevant. We all have unique perspectives that create a bias. I have been called out because I use electric in several debates including this one. Is Part of my bias and I’m heavily aware of it.Are you aware of yours ?
I'm fully aware of my biases, and ability to use other types besides one. Thank you very much.Electric is likely common in tournaments because it’s a good anti meta type. It does well versus the most common types ie steel flying and water. That makes it a wise choice in a tournament. This is the issue with assigning meaning to how common a type is in tours.
youre frequent usage of flying is not irrelevant. We all have unique perspectives that create a bias. I have been called out because I use electric in several debates including this one. Is Part of my bias and I’m heavily aware of it.Are you aware of yours ?
I can use any type. I started using electric 8 years ago mainly because at the time it was literally the worst type and I liked the challenge. It ended up being a lot more fun of a type for me than the others so I play it exclusively. It is my belief that banning zapdos would make the type unviable, and likely worse than fighting is atm. I’d rather not have my type ruined because people can’t handle a Pokémon w 125 special attack and 100 speedI'm fully aware of my biases, and ability to use other types besides one. Thank you very much.