Is it just me, or does it feel like some of the sets being rolled in Randbats are really weird all of a sudden. I just went through a couple of games and saw a Stun Spore Masquerain and a Brave Bird Articuno among a couple of other sets that felt weird. IDK, I guess you could justify Brave Bird since its Articuno's most spammable stab, but I think having a Pressure Freeze Dry, Substitute, Roost stall set with the fourth slot being either Haze or Protect would be more useful than Articuno's pitiful attacks. Als for context, the Masquerain stun spore set generated after I got a Kricketune with Sticky Web so I get thats why it generated, but I still don't think Masquerain should have the ability to get the inconsistent stun spore when it has quiver dance.
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Format Discussion Scarlet/Violet Random Battle Sets
- Thread starter A Cake Wearing A Hat
- Start date
In order:
-Set generation cannot go in reverse. Masquerain has two "roles" that it must choose randomly from before anything else; one role has Quiver Dance, the other has Sticky Web. Sticky Web is forced unless the team already has a Sticky Web user. You had the misfortune of getting Kricketune first, and then generating a Masquerain, and then it picking the support role for Masquerain randomly, thus meaning it is locked to that movepool and not the Quiver Dance one. No, we cannot force specifically Masquerain to always roll its Setup Sweeper role if the team has Sticky Web. That is not a thing we can do. Our options to "fix" this would be either giving you two Sticky Web users in that scenario, or removing Sticky Web from Masquerain entirely as one of the *only three users of it in the format*. Stun Spore is also a move that Masquerain can have on its Sticky Web set, even when it has Sticky Web. If you dislike Stun Spore and would like it removed entirely (even from Sticky Web sets) in favor of getting something like Roost + Ice Beam + Hurricane + U-turn when you already have a webber and roll support Masquerain, then you should suggest that directly.
-Brave Bird on Articuno is equally as strong as Hurricane against equal-defenses targets, and is also 100% accurate. It is, as a result, better than Hurricane. A Substitute + Protect Articuno set may work in previous generations where it runs Leftovers (and it does run that in said generations), but this set is significantly less valuable in Gen 9, where Articuno only has 8 roost PP, no passive Leftovers recovery due to Heavy-Duty Boots, and no Toxic access. Pressure stalling is no longer a win condition for Articuno in Gen 9. The suggestion to remove Flying moves from Articuno entirely is, therefore, denied.
So I just had a team with 2 dual screeners and an aurora veil abomasnow. This seems bad. To the teams credit, I did win but I feel like this shouldn’t really happen if avoidable. I understand that carbink’s and grimmsnarl a only bulky support sets are dual screens but if I’m right about the order then the abomasnow generated last and probably would have been better with its assault vest set.
would it be possible for the team builder to look back at the number of screeners and ban screen moves/veil if a different moveset is possible?
I’ve attached screenshots of the sets in question.
would it be possible for the team builder to look back at the number of screeners and ban screen moves/veil if a different moveset is possible?
I’ve attached screenshots of the sets in question.
Attachments
You’re right about the analysis except that teams (very unintuitively) generate in reverse order. This means Abomasnow, since it was in slot 6 on your team, actually generated first, not last.
Reverse checking over these compatibilities and stuff is something we’d love to do if it were technically possible, but it isn’t and there are scenarios where it would cause infinite looping and break the game.
Slight correction: reverse teamgen is only the case in Mega generations. This is straight up just because we don't reject aurora veil with screens on the team. We can and maybe should do that.
No. Ice Beam Tera Blast Electric Cryogonal has resulted in a significant winrate increase for Cryogonal. It has another set with Freeze-Dry, that's enough. Freeze-Dry does not synergize with Tera Blast Electric. Freeze-Dry also is not rejected with Ice Beam due to Iron Bundle, and Cryogonal doesn't want both moves, so it would have to REPLACE ice beam entirely. Other teras will not be considered (because Electric is extremely good defensively), nor will removing the Tera Blast user set (because its addition was positive). If you are bothered by the existence of an Ice Beam Cryogonal, may I suggest actually teraing it? It is a better user than you would think despite not being a setup sweeper.
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Lol aight, understood. Those first few lines were more than enough explanation. I wasn't asking about changing the Tera type, removing the set, or complaining that the set's unviable. The only reason it occurred to me in the first place was because I did Tera it and promptly got shut down by Gastrodon. But regardless, I appreciate the very comprehensive reasoning.
Turn 10
Indeedee used Psyshock!
(The opposing Gliscor lost 41% of its health!)
The opposing Gliscor used Earthquake!
(Indeedee lost 51.0% of its health!)
The opposing Gliscor was burned!
Turn 11
☆shiraiki: yo why does this have flame orb wtf
Indeedee used Psyshock!
(The opposing Gliscor lost 41% of its health!)
The opposing Gliscor used Earthquake!
(Indeedee lost 51.0% of its health!)
The opposing Gliscor was burned!
Turn 11
☆shiraiki: yo why does this have flame orb wtf
This is known and the fix has been already merged. We are waiting for the main PS devs to hotpatch.
Can Sandaconda get Scale shot, maybe just on its Coil set? It already gets Tera Dragon, and a speed boosting option could complement Coil + EQ nicely. There's three whole Pokemon in the meta that resist ground/dragon coverage, and it still has a slot open rock coverage that hits two of them. That coverage could even be Rock Blast if Sandaconda had loaded dice which would also boost Scale Shot.
Edit: Also, can Volbeat get a Tail Glow set, like maybe TG/Bug Buzz/Encore/filler? Or maybe it could get Infestation to go with Encore to trap something and stall out recovery PP?
Edit: Also, can Volbeat get a Tail Glow set, like maybe TG/Bug Buzz/Encore/filler? Or maybe it could get Infestation to go with Encore to trap something and stall out recovery PP?
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could we see the return of banded spiritomb since it has poltergeist again? i personally found that set to be pretty decent last gen
It's possible already!
IDK, we'll discuss this but Sandaconda is good at being a bulky setup sweeper and Scale Shot flies in the face of that. Perhaps it will be tested at a time where we can do good winrate analysis, if lots of set designers want to. Personally I'm unconvinced since Sandaconda is a mon with great utility in every mathcup atm, and this increases its matchup dependency.
Volbeat and Tail Glow? No. It's not a good Tail Glow Pokémon, and Prankster is worth way, way more than a special setup sweeper with minimal special coverage and mediocre speed and bulk. Manaphy is the Tail Glow mon in rands, this has always been the case (in every format with Baton Pass banned).
could fire ogerpon have play rough added? it currently has nothing to hit dragons and i feel like it'd be a great option to have
We opted for Knock Off over Play Rough because Play Rough on Swords Dance Ogerpon leaves it entirely walled by Fire, while Knock Off and Stomping Tantrum can at least neutrally hit both Fire and Dragon.
Any chance we could have acrobatics+no item mons generate a seed if terrain setter is also on the team? There's some precedent with weather reliant speed boosting abilities already, although I know this is a little different and a super edge case that could introduce too much complexity. This could be applied to Jumpluff and Archeops in previous gens, and both mons would appreciate any boost to defense on switch in.
(Credit to flameingpigey2 for the idea)
(Credit to flameingpigey2 for the idea)
Unfortunately this isn't particularly feasible. I'll explain why:
-We do not track any terrain as a team detail across the team generation process. This would require us to add four new team detail trackers, one for each terrain, solely for use in this feature. We try to minimize new team detail trackers to only what's necessary.
-This would only affect 3-ish pokemon. Given the team detail trackers we currently have involve things like "Stealth Rock", "Hazard Removal", and "Weathers" and are applied broadly and repeatedly throughout the format to a large number of Pokemon, this is a big step down in generalizability. Per our stance on "hardcodes", we thus do not wish to go through this effort due to the high complexity of this code and the low generalizability of this code.
-Even disregarding our policy on not having unnecessary code complexity/hardcodes, the staff are mixed on whether Hawlucha, Sneasler, and Jumpluff would even want these in those scenarios. All three are currently self-sufficient, and their movesets are built with this self-sufficiency in mind. With a Seed, now these Pokemon are sitting ducks/not able to use all of their moves without team support. In a random battle, you won't always have the opportunity to send your Hawlucha in after your terrain setter, and you also won't always WANT to send your terrain setter out before Hawlucha needs to come in. The flexibility provided by not having a seed is, therefore, much more useful on average in a non-Team Preview format.
Fair enough, can definitely agree with keeping the hardcoding to a minimum, especially when the gain (if any) only affects like 3 mons. Thanks for the write up!
I got a scarf komala set with body slam, knock off, play rough, u-turn. While I think this set could be relatively handy for revenge killing slightly faster mons, it doesn't threaten too much damage on defensive mons swapping in (especially steels if you have this specific moveset). U-turn isn't always worth it especially when there are hazards on the field that could of been removed with rapid spin. I think komala's goal should be to spin hazards or do unexpected big damage (maybe both with a para as a bonus).
Revenge killing stuff should be left for better and faster mons or mons with priority instead of scarf komala (komala also has sucker punch).
Revenge killing stuff should be left for better and faster mons or mons with priority instead of scarf komala (komala also has sucker punch).
Removing choice scarf from Komala would more or less require removing all but two of its coverage moves. Please select exactly two of Earthquake, Superpower, Knock Off, Wood Hammer, Play Rough, and U-turn if you would like to completely delete choice scarf. All of the other moves you do not choose of these will be entirely removed from Randbats Komala.
Hello, I recently rolled a Mightyena set with Crunch, Sucker Punch, Poison Fang, and Taunt. I felt.... whelmed. Is there really no better options than Poison Fang (aside from Play Rough, which I rolled before and enjoyed)? A super effective Poison Fang versus Fairy types is only 10 BP stronger than neutral Play Rough. Additionally, there are no Grass/Fairy types at all in the tier that'd give it 4x super effectiveness. The chance to Toxic targets is also unreliable and can be blocked by Steel types, some of whom wall Mightyena completely like Tinkaton and Kinggambit. If I had to replace the move, Yawn would be a good option as it's another more reliable status option, or with Super Fang to allow Mightyena to force progress against things that can resist its other moves. Super Fang would also synergize well with STAB Crunch and Sucker Punch which hit the Ghost Types immune to Super Fang.
There's really not a better option that still allows Choice Band. Plus, its actually alright with Tera Poison boosting it to 60 BP, and the toxic poison is more impactful than most things it can do.
Why does Will-o-Wisp Gengar not run Hex? Why are Substitute and Hex not moves Gengar ever has in randbats, when Sub/Wisp/Hex is one of its main sets?
Attachments
Lvl 81 84 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Arcanine: 129-152 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- 21.9% chance to 2HKO
Lvl 81 84 SpA Life Orb Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Arcanine: 208-246 (72.2 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 81 84 SpA Gengar Hex (130 BP) vs. Lvl 84 84 HP / 84 SpD Arcanine: 160-189 (55.5 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
as you can see from these calcs, clicking shadow ball twice is more than enough to outdamage a single boosted hex. while the ideal damage output of hex is notable, it is very situational.
we try to give mons sets that are good in every situation; sub-hex gengar is not