Research Scarlet & Violet Battle Mechanics Research

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Because of how Gulp Missile can now be Skill Swapped, I looked at where ability flags are handled. Similar to how moves have a table of values and flags, abilities have their own table to control whether they can be copied or replaced. In previous games, this was handled with hard-coded exclusion tables.

Each ability has 9 flags! Marty and I have identified 8 all of these 9 flags. Flags 1-3 are identical lists, but we tested these by altering the flags in game.

The flags in order are:
  • DisabledByNeutralizingGas: allows the ability to be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas if value is not the same as CantSuppress. FALSE for Neutralizing Gas only, TRUE for everything else; this essentially keeps Neutralizing Gas from disabling other Neutralizing Gas.
  • FailRolePlay: causes Role Play and Doodle to fail
  • NoReceiver: causes Receiver and Power of Alchemy to fail
  • NoEntrain: causes Entrainment to fail
  • NoTrace: causes Trace to fail
  • FailSkillSwap: causes Skill Swap and Wandering Spirit to fail
  • CantSuppress: can't be suppressed by Gastro Acid. See notes for DisabledByNeutralizingGas.
  • Breakable: can be disabled by Mold Breaker
  • NoTransform: disables the ability if user is Transformed
Note that some mechanics may use multiple flags. For example, Doodle checks FailRolePlay to decide if a move can be copied, and a different flag for permission to overwrite (probably CantSuppress).
This is what we've tested for Flag 0 that didn't work:
  • Since it's true for everything else, it's not denoting formchanging abilities (this is everyone's first guess).
  • Changing the flag to FALSE still allows Ability Shield to protect the ability.
  • The flag is not Neutralizing Gas's increased priority where it activates before all hazards. Changing all flags to FALSE still causes rocks to activate before Intimidate, and Neutralizing Gas to activate before rocks.
  • Flipping every Ability to FALSE didn't have any obvious observable difference.
  • Flipping Neutralizing Gas to TRUE didn't have any observable difference; two instances still showed their activation messages and were suppressing other Abilities as usual
  • Changing the blank ability 0's flag 0 to TRUE causes every battle to instantly crash the game, regardless of whether you have Neutralizing Gas in your party.
EDIT: Flag 0 is known now. Refer to the two messages below this.

Some interesting observations that we noted:
  • Wonder Guard can no longer be Entrained.
  • Gulp Missile's flags in 3.0.0 match those in version 1.3.2. They briefly fixed them with release of Teal Mask in 2.0.2 to disallow everything, then reverted them with Indigo Disk in 3.0.0.
  • As of version 3.0.0, Tatsugiri transformed into Tatsugiri with Commander can be eaten by Dondozo.
  • Orichalchum Pulse and Hadron Engine had all flags but flag 0 changed to FALSE between 1.3.2 and 2.0.2. This allows them to be copied, and for transformed Ditto to set off those abilities. Marty tested in 1.3.2 that Transformed Ditto could not activate Orichalcum Pulse in battle, and I tested in 3.0.0 that now it can.
You can see the tables for versions 3.0.0, 2.0.2, 2.0.1, and 1.3.2 here: CLICK
You can make a copy for yourself here: CLICK
 
Last edited:
Because of how Gulp Missile can now be Skill Swapped, I looked at where ability flags are handled. Similar to how moves have a table of values and flags, abilities have their own table to control whether they can be copied or replaced. In previous games, this was handled with hard-coded exclusion tables.

Each ability has 9 flags! Marty and I have identified 8 of these 9 flags. Flags 1-3 are identical lists, but we tested these by altering the flags in game.

The flags in order are:
  • Flag 0: unknown, only Neutralizing Gas is FALSE and everything else is TRUE.
  • FailRolePlay: causes Role Play and Doodle to fail
  • NoReceiver: causes Receiver and Power of Alchemy to fail
  • NoEntrain: causes Entrainment to fail
  • NoTrace: causes Trace to fail
  • FailSkillSwap: causes Skill Swap to fail
  • CantSuppress: can't be suppressed by Gastro Acid and Neutralizing Gas
  • Breakable: can be disabled by Mold Breaker
  • NoTransform: disables the ability if user is Transformed
This is what we've tested for Flag 0 that didn't work:
  • Since it's true for everything else, it's not denoting formchanging abilities (this is everyone's first guess).
  • Changing the flag to FALSE still allows Ability Shield to protect the ability.
  • The flag is not Neutralizing Gas's increased priority where it activates before all hazards. Changing all flags to FALSE still causes rocks to activate before Intimidate, and Neutralizing Gas to activate before rocks.
  • Flipping every Ability to FALSE didn't have any obvious observable difference.
  • Flipping Neutralizing Gas to TRUE didn't have any observable difference; two instances still showed their activation messages and were suppressing other Abilities as usual
  • Changing the blank ability 0's flag 0 to TRUE causes every battle to instantly crash the game, regardless of whether you have Neutralizing Gas in your party.
Some interesting observations that we noted:
  • Wonder Guard can no longer be Entrained.
  • Gulp Missile's flags in 3.0.0 match those in version 1.3.2. They briefly fixed them with release of Teal Mask in 2.0.2 to disallow everything, then reverted them with Indigo Disk in 3.0.0.
  • As of version 3.0.0, Tatsugiri transformed into Tatsugiri with Commander can be eaten by Dondozo.
  • Orichalchum Pulse and Hadron Engine had all flags but flag 0 changed to false between 1.3.2 and 2.0.2. This allows them to be copied, and for transformed Ditto to set off those abilities. Marty tested in 1.3.2 that Transformed Ditto could not activate Orichalcum Pulse in battle, and I tested in 3.0.0 that now it can.
You can see the tables here for versions 3.0.0, 2.0.2, 2.0.1, and 1.3.2: CLICK
You can make a copy for yourself here: CLICK

If any of you have ideas for Flag 0, I can alter the flags to test them in game since it's not feasible as is.
Since Neutralizing Gas does not seem to have the "can't suppress" flag, maybe it's the flag for "can't get suppressed by Neutralizing Gas specifically but can still be suppressed by Gastro Acid"?
 

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
Since Neutralizing Gas does not seem to have the "can't suppress" flag, maybe it's the flag for "can't get suppressed by Neutralizing Gas specifically but can still be suppressed by Gastro Acid"?
Good guess! I tested this by setting Flag0 to false, and CantSuppress to true.
I sent out Gyarados with Intimidate and Weezing with Neutralizing Gas in a double battle.
With the altered settings, both Neutralizing Gas and Intimidate go off, and Gastro Acid fails. https://streamable.com/mqmkms
Normal unmodded behavior has only Neutralizing Gas go off, and Gastro Acid succeeds.

I believe Flag0 is "can be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas" and CantSuppress is "cannot be suppressed by Gastro Acid".
CantSuppress would have to be prioritized to keep formchanging abilities from being suppressed (they have CantSuppress = true).
Marty suggests they check both flags and if they are not equal, the ability can be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas. Effectively this is a flag made to keep Neutralizing Gas from disabling Neutralizing Gas.

Will update my original post shortly, ty!
 
Last edited:
Good guess! I tested this by setting Flag0 to false, and CantSuppress to true.
I sent out Gyarados with Intimidate and Weezing with Neutralizing Gas in a double battle.
With the altered settings, both Neutralizing Gas and Intimidate go off, and Gastro Acid fails. https://streamable.com/mqmkms
Normal unmodded behavior has only Neutralizing Gas go off, and Gastro Acid succeeds.

I believe Flag0 is "can be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas" and CantSuppress is "cannot be suppressed by Gastro Acid".
CantSuppress would have to be prioritized to keep formchanging abilities from being suppressed (they have CantSuppress = true).
Marty suggests they check both flags and if they are not equal, the ability can be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas. Effectively this is a flag made to keep Neutralizing Gas from disabling Neutralizing Gas.

Will update my original post shortly, ty!
But wouldn't "can be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas" result in As One being False, when you said above all others are true?
 
Quick questions on Tera Stellar…

1) How does it work with Flying Press? Does it give you the one time boost for both fighting and flying coverage? Does it use up both types’ boosts at once? Is it possible to get the boost on a SE flying press against a grass type for example and then get another boost using brave bird?

2) Does clicking protect use up your normal type boost?

3) If my terastalized mon is holding weakness policy, will a tera stellar tera blast activate it?
2. Status moves don't use up boosts.
3. Confirmed that tera stellar tera blast activates WP on opposing tera mon.
 
This might be a stupid question, but does Tera Starstorm change category based on stats like Tera Blast does? Or is it only ever a special move? I assumed it worked identically like Tera Blast this whole time, but I only just realized this is never mentioned anywhere in its move description.
Actually, this looks like it might change category upon Tera. Used Starstorm on a Chansey with a Terapagos with Atk>Spatk; did ~50. Let the Chansey go and refought it with Terastalized Terapagos, Starstorm annihilated the Chansey. The very slight power increase shouldn't be enough to explain this damage increase.
 
Sorry if this was mentioned before but if a Flying type pokemon Teras to Stellar type, do they become grounded? I know they would still be immune to Ground but would they, for example, become effected by Terrain?
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
Hi.
How does the resulting forme work? Does Tera Starstorm become the Tera Type, and does the forme still change mechanically to Terapagos-Stellar?
Great question. I used a Tera Ghost Terapagos to test:
  • Against Normal-types, Tera Ghost Tera Starstorm appeared to be normally effective
  • Against Ghost-types, Tera Ghost Tera Starstorm appeared to be normally effective
  • Against Terastallized Tera Normal Blissey, Tera Ghost Tera Starstorm printed the "Super Effective" text.

This inclines me to believe that it's still using several of its usual properties. As for the first-hit damage boost and such, I'm not confident enough personally in my knowledge of these mechanics at the moment to say, especially considering the damage calculator seems to not be fully updated yet. However, I did provide stats, sets, and details in the video footage and video description for those wondering and who may want to find out for themselves.

The Terapagos does still enter its Stellar form using Tera Ghost, as shown by the HP increase in the footage at various points.

Sorry if this was mentioned before but if a Flying type pokemon Teras to Stellar type, do they become grounded? I know they would still be immune to Ground but would they, for example, become effected by Terrain?
Jumpluff did not receive healing from Grassy Terrain even after activating Tera Stellar.

Hope this helps.
 

Dunfan

formerly Dunsparce Fanboy
What happens when you hit a mon with Color Change with a Stellar type move?
○ If it does become Stellar type, does it get the extra 1.2x STABs, and if yes, is it one-time only? (and would Adaptability - through Skill Swap or Reflect Type - work on those STABs?)
○ If it terastallizes to Stellar afterwards, does it get tera's Adaptability-like damage boost (1.5x -> 2x) to Stellar type moves?
○ If it uses Revelation Dance, does that move becomes Stellar type?
 
Teraform Zero can be suppressed by Gastro Acid, although this of course does not achieve much in a battle.

All of Tera Shell, Teraform Zero, and Tera Shift can be hacked on to non-Terapagos Pokemon, but they will not do anything on them, even with Tera Stellar. It also doesn't work if you hack Tera Shell or Teraform Zero on to the baby form of Terapagos, even if that uses Tera Stellar.
For Poison Puppeteer, the name of Pecharunt is explicitly mentioned. But not for the three "Tera" abilities.
Edit : Teraform Zero explicitly quote "when Terapagos transforms into its Stellar form".
I have the impression that Game Freak is increasingly protecting its signature abilities against hacking by making them inoperable on the wrong Pokémon... and even the right form is checked! Makes you wonder if these are harcoded effects on the Pokémon in question, and that these abilities themselves has no effect.

I re-checked the interaction between Protosynthesis and Desolate Land since my previous post about Teraform Zero clearing Primal weather conditions. Protosynthesis is still not activated by Desolate Land's sunlight.
This is clearly a bug for me. BTW, are the primal abilities legitimately accessible on Scarlet and Violet? When I see that Strongs Winds is represented by simple rain, it smacks of placeholder and uncoded weather.
 
Last edited:
This is clearly a bug for me. BTW, are the primal abilities legitimately accessible on Scarlet and Violet
There is no legal pokemon that learns them currently, so no. Only way to obtain them is to hack them onto a pokemon, so it's reasonable that they have quirky interactions as they're likely just carrying over code without really bothering to "update" it.

(I mean, the only 3 are the primals and Mega ray...)
 
> There is no legal pokemon that learns them currently, so no. Only way to obtain them is to hack them onto a pokemon
This explains why Extremely harsh sunlight, Heavy rain, Strong winds are coded incompletely.
When you think about it, we haven't seen these climates since the official games were on Nintendo Switch.

Because of how Gulp Missile can now be Skill Swapped, I looked at where ability flags are handled. Similar to how moves have a table of values and flags, abilities have their own table to control whether they can be copied or replaced. In previous games, this was handled with hard-coded exclusion tables.

Each ability has 9 flags! Marty and I have identified 8 all of these 9 flags. Flags 1-3 are identical lists, but we tested these by altering the flags in game.

The flags in order are:
  • DisabledByNeutralizingGas: allows the ability to be suppressed by Neutralizing Gas if value is not the same as CantSuppress. FALSE for Neutralizing Gas only, TRUE for everything else; this essentially keeps Neutralizing Gas from disabling other Neutralizing Gas.
  • FailRolePlay: causes Role Play and Doodle to fail
  • NoReceiver: causes Receiver and Power of Alchemy to fail
  • NoEntrain: causes Entrainment to fail
  • NoTrace: causes Trace to fail
  • FailSkillSwap: causes Skill Swap and Wandering Spirit to fail
  • CantSuppress: can't be suppressed by Gastro Acid. See notes for DisabledByNeutralizingGas.
  • Breakable: can be disabled by Mold Breaker
  • NoTransform: disables the ability if user is Transformed

Some interesting observations that we noted:
  • Wonder Guard can no longer be Entrained.
  • Gulp Missile's flags in 3.0.0 match those in version 1.3.2. They briefly fixed them with release of Teal Mask in 2.0.2 to disallow everything, then reverted them with Indigo Disk in 3.0.0.
  • As of version 3.0.0, Tatsugiri transformed into Tatsugiri with Commander can be eaten by Dondozo.
  • Orichalchum Pulse and Hadron Engine had all flags but flag 0 changed to FALSE between 1.3.2 and 2.0.2. This allows them to be copied, and for transformed Ditto to set off those abilities. Marty tested in 1.3.2 that Transformed Ditto could not activate Orichalcum Pulse in battle, and I tested in 3.0.0 that now it can.
You can see the tables for versions 3.0.0, 2.0.2, 2.0.1, and 1.3.2 here: CLICK
You can make a copy for yourself here: CLICK
I saw another curiosity in this dumped data base: Wonder Guard can be traced.
It would seem strange to me that another Pokémon could copy this ability for itself, it seems overpowered to me.
Apart from this exception, I noticed that on the entire list, flags n°1, 2, 3 and 4 are always the same.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Anubis

HONK
is a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
I was sorting through the mythical, legendary, sublegendary, Ultra Beast, and paradox lists today (you can see them here) and noticed the paradox check for whether Booster Energy can be removed is exactly the same in 3.0.0 as in 2.0.2.

So it looks like GF forgot to add the new paradoxes to the Booster Energy check and they are not considered paradoxes for that purpose.

As a quick test, Walking Wake can't Trick Booster Energy away to a Neutralizing Gas Koffing, but Gouging Fire can!
Video: https://streamable.com/zdeszi

EDIT: This is still the same in version 3.0.1.
 
Last edited:
I saw another curiosity in this dumped data base: Wonder Guard can be traced.
It would seem strange to me that another Pokémon could copy this ability for itself, it seems overpowered to me.
Apart from this exception, I noticed that on the entire list, flags n°1, 2, 3 and 4 are always the same.
Wonder Guard has been able to be traced for a long time. I want to say I've had it occur in the Emerald frontier. It's not usually beneficial to the player with shedinja since you can't Trace an ally.
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
Hi. Super interesting stuff this time around, I think, thanks in part to the solid questions posted here.

What happens when you hit a mon with Color Change with a Stellar type move?
○ If it does become Stellar type, does it get the extra 1.2x STABs, and if yes, is it one-time only? (and would Adaptability - through Skill Swap or Reflect Type - work on those STABs?)
○ If it terastallizes to Stellar afterwards, does it get tera's Adaptability-like damage boost (1.5x -> 2x) to Stellar type moves?
○ If it uses Revelation Dance, does that move becomes Stellar type?
Color Change is simply not triggered at all if the user is hit by Stellar Tera Blast. The least interesting outcome, but also the least complex. Showdown currently does incorrectly change the Color Change Pokemon into a Stellar Type, notably.

If a move is below 60 BP and is boosted in priority by abilities like Gale Wings or Triage, does it still increase to 60 BP?
Great question! Moves boosted in priority by abilities do seem to receive the Tera 60 Base Power Minimum, as you can see by Comfey dealing otherwise impossible amounts of damage in this footage with its Tera Grass Absorb. This is not currently implemented on Showdown nor in the damage calculator, as shown in this replay. Pokemon stats are included in the linked footage with multiple damage rolls if anyone wants to double-check this for themselves.

Another question, does Stellar Tera cause BP increases for moves with <60 BP?
Tera Stellar does trigger the Tera 60 BP Minimum, but interestingly only on the first attack used per Type. After the initial first time use boost on Absorb, which seemed to also include a bump up to 60 base power, Tera Stellar Comfey was back to doing completely normal damage rolls with a 20 Base Power Absorb. Same situation with Draining Kiss. Again, stats are included in the footage if anyone wants to double-check this for themselves. More eyes are always appreciated.

Hope this helps.
 
I was sorting through the mythical, legendary, sublegendary, Ultra Beast, and paradox lists today (you can see them here) and noticed the paradox check for whether Booster Energy can be removed is exactly the same in 3.0.0 as in 2.0.2.

So it looks like GF forgot to add the new paradoxes to the Booster Energy check and they are not considered paradoxes for that purpose.

As a quick test, Walking Wake can't Trick Booster Energy away to a Neutralizing Gas Koffing, but Gouging Fire can!
Video: https://streamable.com/zdeszi
Time to use something like Grassy Seed Gouging Fire + Booster Energy Symbiosis combo in doubles! I wonder if there are any weird shenanigans by passing on Booster Energy to a paradox that already has Booster Energy active, such as somehow activating the ability twice.

Great question! Moves boosted in priority by abilities do seem to receive the Tera 60 Base Power Minimum, as you can see by Comfey dealing otherwise impossible amounts of damage in this footage with its Tera Grass Absorb. This is not currently implemented on Showdown nor in the damage calculator, as shown in this replay. Pokemon stats are included in the linked footage with multiple damage rolls if anyone wants to double-check this for themselves.
So it seems that it takes into account the actual priority of the move and not the final priority after the ability boost. Thanks! I assume a <60 BP move called by say Prankster Copycat behaves in the same way. Does a priority move like Quick Attack called by Prankster Copycat not get the 60 BP boost?
 
Since Gulp missile can be skill swapped, is this true for other form change abilities e.g. Battle Bond or Shields Down?
Further does any effect of a form change ability trigger for Pokémon that copied the abilities. I assume stat changes are tied to the forms and won’t trigger but what about paralysis from gulp missile or the battle bond boost?
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
Hi.

Soak doesn't have any effect against a target that has Terastallized into Stellar. This was likely already checked, but I couldn't find it in this thread so I repeated it to get footage and confirmation.

Since Gulp missile can be skill swapped, is this true for other form change abilities e.g. Battle Bond or Shields Down?
Further does any effect of a form change ability trigger for Pokémon that copied the abilities. I assume stat changes are tied to the forms and won’t trigger but what about paralysis from gulp missile or the battle bond boost?
The table posted by Anubis has flags that show this for each Ability. We can see that Gulp Missile is an exception there compared to something like Battle Bond, as shown in-game by this footage. If you Skill Swap Gulp Missile to a different Pokemon, nothing much seems to happen even after using Surf with it.

I assume a <60 BP move called by say Prankster Copycat behaves in the same way.

Does a priority move like Quick Attack called by Prankster Copycat not get the 60 BP boost?
Tera Water Water Gun does receive the Tera 60 Base Power Minimum when called by Prankster Copycat. However, Tera Water Aqua Jet called by Prankster Copycat does not receive the Tera 60 BP Minimum. Footage again has stats if anyone wants to confirm this for themselves.


Hope this helps.
 

DarkFE

Heal Bells ringing
is a Pokemon Researcher
Hi. The testing saga continues.

Firstly, I was asked on Discord to check these interactions regarding Type-changing moves:
Next, a partner Pecharunt's Poison Puppeteer does not trigger if an active ally Poisons a foe in Doubles, even if that ally is a Klutz Pecharunt.

I also tested hacked Tera Normal Terapagos-Stellar's Tera Starstorm damage at the request of someone in my video comments. It works out that it's doing so little damage that it seems to be receiving no Typing damage boost whatsoever, whether that be a Stellar boost, typical Normal STAB boost, or a Tera Normal boost. Stats included in the footage as usual if someone wants to double-check my understanding here. Always appreciated.

Can Tera Starstorm be Sketched, and if it can, how does it behave when used by a Terastallized Smeargle? Would it become, say, Fire type if used by a Tera Fire Smeargle? Does it become Stellar type if used by a Stellar Tera Smeargle?

EDIT: tested it myself, you cannot Sketch Tera Starstorm, so the question of a Terastallized non-Terapagos Pokémon using Tera Starstorm may require hacking as well.
Tera Starstorm used by a Terastallized non-Terapagos Pokemon seems to remain Normal-type in its effectiveness when actually using the move in all tested cases. For instance, whether you use it with Tera Stellar activated or with Tera Ghost activated, Ghosts remain immune to the move.

However, somewhat interestingly, the type effectiveness indicators on the move selection screen are often incorrect if the non-Terapagos Tera Starstorm user is Terastallized into Stellar. For instance, the indicator will read "Super effective" against a Terastallized Ghost-type despite their immunity, will read as "Super effective" against a Terastallized Poison-type despite their neutrality, and will read "Effective" against natural Ghosts again despite the immunity. In other words, in this case these effectiveness indicators almost seem to assume that the move will be Stellar-typed, while the actual damage in the battle does not reflect that assumption.

When the non-Terapagos Tera Starstorm user isn't Stellar and is instead Terastallized into some other Tera Type, the type effectiveness of Tera Starstorm seems to display correctly on the move selection menu as a typical Normal-type move, showing that target Tera Ghosts are immune and that target Tera Poisons are neutral.

These results stand somewhat in contrast to the results shown by Terapagos-Stellar using a non-Stellar Tera Type previously posted here. There, Terapagos-Stellar's non-Stellar Tera Starstorm still printed the "It's super effective!" text against opposing Terastallized targets and seemingly lost its Normal-type properties as usual.

Hope this helps. This is a relatively long post covering topics separate from the last post, so I felt it was distinct enough to warrant the rare double post rather than trying to shove all this info into the last post with an edit. Apologies if I'm mistaken on that.
 

In the past, I know that trace has not worked on quark drive and protosynthesis in the same way that it doesn't trace abilities like disguise. However today I was playing a game and noticed that quark drive got traced. Is this something that changed in the dlc or that was always like this but implemented wrong; or a new bug that isn't supposed to work this way?
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top