Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings

[BolTingBlazie]

We've got a huge update incoming. We're talking BIG CHUNGUS sized. We voted on the entire VR and the changes from the slate are below. A huge thanks to our wonderful VR team for taking the time to vote on the entire VR + around a dozen new additions. Also, big thanks to Queen of Bean and Easter Bliss for helping out with the tiebreaks. Now, here are the results of our update!

New Placements

to A
to A-
to B+
to B+

Rises

from A+ to S
from A to A+
from A- to A
from A- to A+
from B+ to A-
from B to B+
from B to A-
from B- to B
from C+ to A-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C to C+
from C to C+
from C to C+
from UR to B+
from UR to B
from UR to B
from UR to B-
from UR to C+
from UR to C
from UR to C

Drops

from S to A+
from S to A+
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A- to B+
from A- to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B+ to B-
from B+ to B
from B to C+
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from C+ to UR
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to D
from C to D
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
Both Appletun and Avalugg were voted on but neither recieved enough votes to be ranked

Because of the sheer number of changes (told you it was big chungus sized), I am not writing reasonings for every change. Instead, I will open this thread for 24 hours for questions about the changes to the VR, where our lovely VR team will respond to any questions you have. Please do not repeat any questions that have already been asked. Hold off on nominations until this 24 hour period is up. That is all, I hope you enjoyed this update!

Why has lokix been on the decline lately? Is it just not good anymore or is it just too inconsistent in this meta?

 

[Deathbringer7]

Why has lokix been on the decline lately? Is it just not good anymore or is it just too inconsistent in this meta?

Really hard justifying it in a tier with both Slither Wing and Scizor as prominent offensive bug types, that also provide far better defensive utility as well might I add. Mence on the rise and it's perennial struggle with fighters as well as struggling to immediately break past Tink, making itself prone to Talon/Coal flame body and praying that the Gengar it wants to Sucker isn't Sub are not ideal traits for a consistent performer.

 

[Deathbringer7]

Was a little surprised by it but as someone who has been a big fan of Coalossal I still think its pretty decent on the right team (read: niche mon though).

What makes it so nice as a hazard setter is that when you buildspikestack with it (eg. Gastrodon + Coalossal) you end up in a position where both hazard setters have a positive matchup versus Talon especially, unlike stuff like Tink + Gastro, Gastro + Bramble etc where there's always gonna be 1 of the setters that doesn't. Compared to something like Bramble too you aren't trying to compress so badly since Rocks is just a 1 set-up on the Coal, also gives ur Gastro etc more to click in situations where clicking attacks won't do as much.

The big kicker for me with Coal is that despite the fact its true that it can't wall prominent physical attackers like you say, double Flame Body cores are REALLY really nice to allow you to aggressively use Coal into various physical threats it might not even check if you value the Burn on them, with no need to make risky plays with your Talon against resisted hits and potentially lose it. It does offer some rather unique things it checks like mimikyu and staraptor which is nice but not really something you go hunting for a mon to do, but is definitely a side benefit at least.

I wouldn't say you have to rely overly much on having it remove still as you can still boots stack and just cope with only rocks up if you want, but it does have a positive matchup versus Tink at least as one of the more popular Rockers while not being very easily spinblockable, so you can definitely get some chances since you don't feel the compression so bad. some matchups you can kinda tera water it too if you don't need to tera something else on the team to win the match, better checking things like Tink and not caring about being knocked while being able to throw it into physical waters more freely for burn fishing can be nice.

tl-dr: bit surprised but its a pretty viable mon so the rise is kinda explainable.



To offer an alternative angle to this than Mossy, both Bramble and Talonflame drops actually seemed a little controversial amongst the team with non-negligble numbers of people ranking Bramble > Deci and keeping Talon in S or S-.

Mossy offered some discussion on why some people believed Decidueye to be better than Bramble, but quite a few people (including myself) really value a couple of things about Bramble more. The key assumption of course is that you are using these Pokemon to spinblock on Spikes teams, imo there's no competition here and Bramble is just objectively better, although Decidueye has other stuff going for it. Whats better about Bramble in these situations is that 1) it compresses Spikes onto the mon which has objective advantages in terms of making builds work, it can't really set up multiple layers too easily but 1 layer is very easy for it to manage while still doing its jobs, and 2) Rapid Spin is objectively a lot nicer on these teams than Deci which just fogs away your own hazards and makes progress making a lot harder. Bramble's ability to better keep Spikes up and compress them onto the one slot ends up being a big advantage for those Taunt Talonflame Spikestack style teams and the like.

I really love how multifaceted this tier is that you can have two mons with same typing and a similar (similar enough, hazard clearing) can coexist. I'm also in the camp that says Bramble's been slept on a bit.

 

[Krockodile]

I have some questions regarding the ranking:

1. Considering that Decidueye is ranked higher than Brambleghast, may I assume that Decidueye is better than Brambleghast in terms of utility? I know Defog is a better move than Rapid Spin in terms of utility, but what if I had a team that sets spikes and stealth rock. It might be counterproductive for me to defog the hazards that I set up.
2. Regarding Decidueye, what are the sets that it can run in UU?
3. How come Hippowdon has decreased in viability from A+ to A-. Is it because of rain teams, there are better defensive checks (i.e Slowbro, Quagsire and Tera Water Salamence)?

 

[Melt Gibson]

I have some questions regarding the ranking:

1. Considering that Decidueye is ranked higher than Brambleghast, may I assume that Decidueye is better than Brambleghast in terms of utility? I know Defog is a better move than Rapid Spin in terms of utility, but what if I had a team that sets spikes and stealth rock. It might be counterproductive for me to defog the hazards that I set up.
2. Regarding Decidueye, what are the sets that it can run in UU?

1. Sometimes but not always. Like you said, Defog on hazard stack is counterproductive. Brambleghast also has access to Wind Rider's benefit of Hurricane immunity and Strength Sap, as well as also being able to set Spikes. So Bramble does still have some use cases where it's better than Decidueye.

2. Most Decidueye are utility with Knock Off and Defog due to Long Reach nullifying contact, but there's a lot to be explored! Spirit Shackle can trap annoying defensive mons, particularly fat waters with regen like Slowbro and Alomomola, and Specs has the unique niche of being a special breaker that Tyranitar can't afford to switch into.

hope this helps!

 

[KM]

just a general note on all the "why did x drop" " why did y rise" posts -- i think it's much better to frame in terms of "i think x should be y rank because abc" as opposed to fixating on any changes that it underwent between VR updates. The VR is not updated super regularly and it has probably been like three separate metas and trend progressions between this update and the last update -- so something could, for instance, have been rated A last time, fallen to B some time in the middle (in terms of "objective viability") and then rose back to A- because of recent meta trends. If you look at this and say "why did it drop from A to A-", you're just not seeing the other shifts that happened in between the VR updates. the meta is incredibly swingy right now, so it's best to think of these VR updates as occasional snapshots rather than a comprehensive tracking of these mons' viability over time.

 

[JoeMama]

just a general note on all the "why did x drop" " why did y rise" posts -- i think it's much better to frame in terms of "i think x should be y rank because abc" as opposed to fixating on any changes that it underwent between VR updates. The VR is not updated super regularly and it has probably been like three separate metas and trend progressions between this update and the last update -- so something could, for instance, have been rated A last time, fallen to B some time in the middle (in terms of "objective viability") and then rose back to A- because of recent meta trends. If you look at this and say "why did it drop from A to A-", you're just not seeing the other shifts that happened in between the VR updates. the meta is incredibly swingy right now, so it's best to think of these VR updates as occasional snapshots rather than a comprehensive tracking of these mons' viability over time.

Yeah but the VR was opened to questions and not nominations for that time

 

[Melt Gibson]

Here with my first nom of the new meta!
C+ > B-

After trying this out for a bit in roomtours and on ladder, I'm of the opinion that Dragalge is a huge sleeper pick. It does have the unfortunate problem of being pretty much entirely walled out by Tinkaton, but I think it's also worth considering that Tinkaton is a very easily removable problem due to two factors. Firstly, Tink just has a lot of shit that it needs to check all at once, and combined with the pressure of being needed to stop Dragalge from forcing progress by dropping ludicrous damage on something, it causes a heavy amount of stress on the opposing team. Dragalge manages to be a threat just by being present. Secondly, and more important, Magnezone. Not only does it have Magnet Pull to reliably dispose of Steels that give Dragalge trouble, it also functions handily as a slow pivot with Volt Switch to get Dragalge in safely. With the general lack of slow pivots in the tier (Pelipper is the only other one we really have right now), being able to synergize well and easily fit yourself onto teams with one of the best to do it in the current meta is no small accomplishment. Dragalge naturally associates itself with common threats in the teambuilder and is easily able to blend in with and support them. Also, once Tinkaton is dead, there's like, absolutely nothing that can eat a Specs Adaptability Draco Meteor. Your coverage options are generally fine with Tera Blast, Focus Blast, etc, especially considering you don't even really need coverage due to how everything just drops to your insanely cranked STABs. Don't get me wrong, Drag isn't without its problems. It's slow and not terribly fat and that can definitely be an issue. However, I firmly believe that being able to regularly threaten a KO on like 80% of the tier makes it better than some of the other shitters in B-.

 

[QuoiseSSBM]

does anyone have like a full vr after the new additions

 

[BolTingBlazie]

Nomming from A to A+

This thing is basically UU's volcarona counterpart in playstyle where it absolutely demolishes teams in the right matchups, not only can it end games outright and snowball if its counterplay is softened up enough, knocked out, or is not very present, but it can provide utility in taunt and rapid spin and even run bulk up sets in addition to its insanely potent offensive sets. Sure it has 4MSS, but its threat potential is so high and downright silly against teams that don't have proper counterplay for the right set that it can be genuinely incredible and genuinely offsets that downside. Yeah it has a decent amount of counterplay like mence, slowbro, wo-chien with the right tera, gyarados, etc;, but just like Volcarona it doesn't stop Quaquaval from being downright silly and feeling broken and snowballing in the right matchups, or when its teammates remove its counterplay.
Matchup Duck's presence has definitely been seen and responded to, but it doesn't stop it in the slightest, as once its counterplay is gone, it can become really hard to deal with just like its matchup fishing counterpart in the tier above in terms of playstyle, Quaquaval is a force to be reckoned with, with or without team support and provides lots of value to many different teams, and genuinely forces teams to respond to it in order to not get half of their team or flat out lose to it in the right matchups. All and all, I feel A is a tiny bit too low and what it has shown is that it is very much a force to be reckoned with, and definitely deserves to move up a subrank for having the massive threat potential it does.


Here is an example match where Lily utilized Quaquaval that further proves my point of Quaquaval being a "Matchup Duck" to close out a game that showcases how it can be silly with closing out matches and she made sure to remove its counterplay, where she made sure it could come in and close out the game by making sure Polteageist and Hawlucha removed wo chien, salamence, shocks, and scream tail so it could come in and close out a game. Sure, its not the best example of Quaquavals insanely high highs since that team lily was up against had a lot of Quaquaval counterplay, but even with the team support it still provided lots of value for the end of the match dealing with gallade and hippo with ease and smashing through them like nothing, which were pokemon her other parts of her team could not handle as well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-689350

 

[Glitchwood High]

Obvious nomination but Wo-Chien from A+ to S, S+ if possible. Best Tera User in the tier, massive defenses on both ends of the spectrum, most consistent Pokemon in the tier, extremely splashable on every flavor of balance and stall, defines the entire tier, best defensive Pokemon in the entire tier, has no weaknesses, best knock off spammer, versatile, good against literally everything. It's the definition of a glue mon and it's so good that 99% of the time the best answer to it is itself. I have an infinitely longer explanation here but this summary suffices.

 

[pokemonisfun]

Obvious nomination but Wo-Chien from A+ to S, S+ if possible. Best Tera User in the tier, massive defenses on both ends of the spectrum, most consistent Pokemon in the tier, extremely splashable on every flavor of balance and stall, defines the entire tier, best defensive Pokemon in the entire tier, has no weaknesses, best knock off spammer, versatile, good against literally everything. It's the definition of a glue mon and it's so good that 99% of the time the best answer to it is itself. I have an infinitely longer explanation here but this summary suffices.

This and especially your longer post is fantastic! And helped inspired me to think of another way to beat Wo-Chien, hence:

I nominate Brute Bonnet from B- rank to A- rank.



Et tu, Brute? (Brute Bonnet) @ Protective Pads
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 124 HP / 252 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Spore
- Synthesis

This set and similar sets have a very strong place in the metagame right now, specifically, it is similar to Wo-Chien but more offensive (and much less reliable), in exchange for being able to Spore and crucially, reliably beat Tera Ghost Wo-Chien (the most common Tera). In this post, I'll do three things: 1) talk about aspects of this set in the abstract that make Brute Bonnet a strong Pokemon, 2) then discuss it's more specific place in the metagame and 3) provide illuminating replays that highlight the first two points.

The set in abstract

Brute Bonnet actually has a lot going for it - it has a very high base stat total, a very good movepool, and, as Wo-Chien proves, it can abuse Tera better than most Pokemon because it has so many weaknesses. Of course having so many weaknesses to common attacking types (U-Turns, Hurricane, Sludge Bomb, Fighting moves are all very common attacks), is a net negative, but even before the Tera it does have key resistances which help it beat the near ubiquitous bulky Water and Ground types.

In terms of stats, it just has a splendid spread of power and bulk, being a very tanky Pokemon similar to Tyranitar, which means it can absorb even most super effective hits without being KOd if Brute is at high health. Crunch is of course a very good STAB move when combined with Close Combat's fighting coverage, really only missing out on Fairies. Even more notable is access to Spore, which on a Pokemon combined with bulk and offense, gives Brute significant opportunities to disrupt and make progress even if the opponent has an otherwise solid counter. Speed is of course a downside but it's not abysmally low like Slowbro level and again, the rest of the base stats do compensate for this.

Brute's specific place in the metagame

In terms of weaknesses, it is annoying actually but like Wo-Chien, you can use the same Teras - Ghost being a particularly useful one. Yes it's true you have a Fighting weakness but it's surprisingly not that bad, the most threatening fighting types in Lucario/Pawmot/Gallade seem to be not used as much these days because they have very little defensive utility (that said, I think they are all underrated) and Tera Ghost can surprise them all. Slither Wing is another fighting type that also gets U-Turn but again, you can Tera to beat it and it does have issues with Talonflame and a few common Pokemon you can pair with Wo-Chien anyways. Quaquaval is of course the biggest Fighting type currently but it also is most hesitant to switch in given you could nuke it with a Grass move.

Fairy is rarely used as an attacking type in the current metagame so really Hurricane spammers are the biggest issue - Salamence, Iron Jugulis, and Pelipper are our more common ones but they are all threats that a Wo-Chien would need to account for anyways, hence it's not difficult to partner with Tinkaton and some other sturdy Hurricane switch ins.

The stats and movepool are really what drive Brute Bonnet to a strong place in the metagame, specifically, it can deconstruct the powerful Wo-Chien / bulky water and/or ground / Talonflame core rather easily. The only downside vs this core is that you might lose your Pads so beating Talonflame is harder, but you can also try to come in on the bulky water/ground part of the core to keep your item and if all else, you can still Spore Talonflame and Flame Body to be sure is only 30%. You're much more immediately threatening with your max attack Crunch than Wo-Chien even though you lack Knock Off, for example you can beat Gastrodon quickly while Wo-chien needs a grass move to do so, which it often cannot run given it usually needs Foul Play/Ruination to be effective in addition to Knock Off.

Dark/Fighting coverage is very effective in the metagame because our two most common Fairies, Scream Tail and Tinkaton, do not resist this coverage combination so you really do have perfect neutral coverage most of the time. Spore is very useful in that it can stop threats like Salamence both from beating you and sometimes more importantly, stop it from launching very strong Hurricanes/attacks.

The low Speed Brute Bonnet has is one of it's few weaknesses but you can still invest to outspeed the majority of Wo-Chien, which you normally 2HKO fairly easily with Close Combat, and you can outspeed other defensive slower Pokemon as well like Alomomola. Protective Pads can come in handy vs several Helmet users which look like that can beat Brute Bonnet, like Helmet Hippowdon, because Brute Bonnet lacks Grass stab on this set (although it's perfectly usable over Synthesis and Spore), but in reality you beat them because of the PP healing move nerf.

Illuminating replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-690302 - in one of my UUFPL games, Brute Bonnet does very critical damage to a Wo-Chien on turn 14 and I could have gotten even more with it if I predicted right (for example, hitting Scizor with a Spore or attack because Wo-chien was just death fodder later). It's clear I was able to pure more pressure with my Brute Bonnet on their Wo-chien, more so than if I had a Wo-Chien.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1854510805-cnezaenqxbo9brkeuoow9h1ujvmp3hypw - in a game where I made a new gen9uu Elo record, Brute Bonnet beats a Talonflame in combination with Spore and Protective Pads and it has multiple opportunities to do damage later

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1851365534-nfl5dbs3p1o1kc54cdxkx2cudxe2eg7pw - defeating a very solid stall team, Brute Bonnet plays a role in softening up the entire team of defensive walls, which lets it's partners sweep for the win later.


Overall, the best way to think about Brute Bonnet is that it's a more offensive Wo-Chien with Spore, that is generally inferior to Wo-Chien, but since it can actually beat Wo-Chien fairly easily (until Tera Fairy becomes more popular...), it's a great anti-meta pick.

 

[Monky25]

New Pokemon:

to A/A-: I think Greninja has settled in fairly nicely as just a good Pokemon rather than the broken threat it was seen by some day 1. Its current place in the meta is as an effective offensive pivot that edges out and KOes relevant threats like Sandy Shocks, Gengar, and Pawmot, serving as a nice check to more offensive builds, rather than being a wallbreaker. Its access to Toxic Spikes capitalizes on the very few grounded poison-types in the tier by putting Pokemon who absolutely hate status like Gastrodon and Alomomola on a timer while still being a good enough pivot thanks to Hydro Pump + Ice Beam covering most of the tier anyway. It’s a solid lead thanks to double spikes and Choice Scarf sets are serviceable enough against foes like +1 Iron Jugulis, +2 Polteageist, and +1 Maushold. In terms of its flaws, it's quite weak and needs to play the long game vs foes including but not limited to Tinkaton, Scream Tail, Slither Wing, Alomomola, and AV Cyclizar, the latter of which keeps hazard setting variants from being effective. It’s fast, but still slower than Kilowattrel, Noivern, and Talonflame. Protean is also a notable double-edged sword in making it more vulnerable to attacks like Bullet Punch from Scizor or Brave Bird from Talonflame when using coverage. It’s definitely a good Pokemon, but I see A as the highest it can go and am generally fine with A-, certainly not a bad ranking for sure.
to A: I rate utility cyclizar pretty highly in the current tier’s state as a Pokemon that can be outright unkillable at times, especially Assault Vest versions lately. Knock Off + U-turn + Rapid Spin is the dream utility combo, with solid offensive pressure against threats like Gengar and Pawmot being great as well. AV blanks hazard setting Greninja sets and non Tera Ice Sandy Shocks which hinders these hazard stacking builds and generally most things hate Knock Off + Draco to switch into it. It’s just a very splashable anti-progress Pokemon right now. Moreover, offensive sets with Overheat and Power Whip are pretty solid, apart from Scream Tail it's basically unwallable since Power Whip drops Gastrodon and Hippowdon who will likely be chipped switching into Draco Meteor . Solid A rank right now.
to A-: I think Armarouge has certainly cemented itself as one of the most obnoxious Pokemon to fight and a strong sweeper at that Weak Armor in conjunction with unwallable coverage means one bad click and your team can be wiped out. It has completely revitalized Psychic Terrain, breaking through some troublesome Pokemon for the playstyle like Tinkaton, Tyranitar, and Wo-Chien without even Terastallizing while still being a potent threat you really don’t want to give free turns to. I rate Armarouge higher than Psychic Terrain which is represented by Indeedee’s placement because I do think it’s a legitimate pick with Choice Specs and Calm Mind variants outside of terrain akin to how Pelipper can function well on regular teams, which is why I’d put it a subrank higher.

Rises:

+ to B+: With the drop of Amarouge, Psychic Terrain HO has found new viability in the meta as one of the best archetypes in general. The archetype has a lot of tools to overwhelm common defensive Pokemon like Gastrodon and Tinkaton and Pokemon like Armarouge and Polteageist have their danger level bumped up greatly. Polteageist is a staple of the archetype and one of the best sweepers right now, having game-winning potential with Tera Fighting and Tinkaton chipped while appreciating Psychic Terrain to not get revenge killed by Scizor or locked in by Grafaiai, so Psychic Terrain’s new potential amplifying it means it should rise to be on par with its viability at least. Indeedee is the main setter so it should naturally rise as well.
to B/B+: A strong and underlooked Pokemon right now imo. Compared to the last update, Florges has a more defined niche of just stat checking a lot of the tier as certain threats have become more popular. It answers non tspikes Greninja well which is common and handles a lot of established dangerous threats like Salamence, Sandy Shocks, Quaquaval, and Iron Jugulis which are dangerous and high in viability. The offensive capacity thanks to limited Fairy resists in tandem with Wish gives it a strong foundation on a lot of balance builds right now which cover its issues against Scizor and Tinkaton. It’s definitely more potent than the mons in its current rank and honestly better than a lot of B rank stuff even.
to B: This should be ranked on par if not higher than Barraskewda. Strong rain sweeper with great coverage and fulfills an important niche in the playstyle of wiping out a troublesome threat in Gastrodon with Grass Knot. It synergizes well with other rain Pokemon and generally feels more integral to rain than a Pokemon who faces competition from the main sweeper while lacking nuclear power and the ability to fit the coverage to wipe out Salamence. Could have both be in B- really than a Golduck rise but Golduck should be with Barraskewda at the minimum.

Drops:

to B+: I would’ve nominated this to drop further before shifts but Greninja dropping helps keep it at B+ for now. A lot of the reasons Slither Wing dropped before are generally the same: Salamence, talonflame, and tera ghost wo-chien dominance sucks while it has flawed item choice no matter what it chooses, but I think it just didn’t drop further enough the last update. The rest of the mons in A- have much more consistent applications and performance in the meta to where it just doesn’t fit in with them. Scizor has taken its place for the most part as well. There really wasn't a major reason to use it unless you wanted to before shifts. Currently, its good special bulk does let it act as a great Greninja check; I like to run enough bulk to avoid the 2HKO from Hydro Pump (boots not specs) after rocks and it works well while checking Sandy too, but it’s still vulnerable to hazards when using pads and it can’t switch into Wo-Chien without getting knocked. Its applications feel more on par with stuff still in the meta but not as common like Gardevoir and Decidueye.
to C: honestly just use Espeon. Grimmsnarl is just really mediocre as a screens setter compared to Espeon atm, since it’ll always miss out on something that just really hinders it. With no Taunt, it can’t prevent Stealth Rock being set up or Defog from removing screens, while no Parting Shot means it lacks momentum and it will be a momentum sink. No Brick Break means you are running a Pokémon with no attacks in the year 2023. Just a really flawed Pokemon that feels suboptimal compared to Espeon’s massive benefit of deterring hazards with Magic Bounce and having the ability to actual force switches with Yawn. First Impression users are not as common as before either which serves as another point in Espeon’s favor and kicks Grimmsnarl down more.
to UR: Frosmoth isn’t necessarily bad but there’s a lot of setup sweepers running around atm and Frosmoth is tough to justify. There are sweepers with more immediate power like Iron Jugulis and Gengar as well as others who are reliant on Terastallization but still have a higher ceiling like Polteageist and Cloyster. No Slowking to set snow either, not to mention Ice/Bug is not a good defensive typing with how slow it is, even at +1. It just really feels there’s a lot better mons to use.

Also, I am attaching an announcement to my VR post in traditional fashion. There will be a VR update on May 10, 2023 to vote on the new drops + changes in the meta. If there are changes you’d like to see, make sure to get your nominations in by then.

 

[Sulo]

i stopped playing for a bit because i lost interest and got bogged in other stuff but i've played a fair bit and i wanna nom some stuff

-> A-: there's a lot that's already been said about this mon as per monky's post but i think this thing is amazing. you have a ton of utility in the coveted knockturn combination that lets you mess with all ur switchins and scare out a ton of mons (e.g. talon, tink, florges, scream tail, etc, all rlly annoyed by it and cant afford to get in as free) as well as being able to pivot in a good amount of mons, since i do feel it has synergy with a lot of breakers and defensive mons (namely stuff like rotom-h and gastro that can cover super well for what you bait in, so u gain momentum). speaking of gastro and spikes in general, i think it really benefits hazard stack a lot; spinblockers do literally nothing to you and you sit on them for days (bar like palossand lol), so you pretty much make guaranteed progress into those kinds of mons too. av is also a fantastic soft check to a lot, including mons like gengar shocks etc and you can afford to hard in more on stuff like gastro to clear hazards. id sound like a broken record if i went on about stuff like offensive sets/good coverage but ya this things great.

-> B+: florges is legit, i really think this mon is better than the vr suggests. i think its super easy to take advantage of our current steels atm (which is made so much easier w cyc in the tier basically giving you a way to wear them down with overheat/knocking crucial items/forcing them in and making them take hazards chip), making it a pretty solid threat w cm imo. wish support is also super fire with stuff like av donphan, letting you play somewhat more recklessly against mons like shocks and gengar. its also like, pretty strong offensively too w no investment, so you're packing a punch vs a lot regardless of the lack of spa evs you usually have. tera steel also means things like gastro cant really fish for poison as much among other interactions, so it can be solid in late-game situations where the fairy typing isnt as useful.

-> A-: tbh im kinda off the quaquaval wave, i said it was broken when it dropped earlier on but im starting to see the light now. rain's prevalence kinda overlaps with quack a ton (even if it's used on rain itself a lot); i feel like it rlly thuds into a ton because of that unless ur using stuff like tera blast tera elec (unironically good set but idk if people have caught onto that yet). it is for sure not bad though and i think its place in the tier has stayed a bit stagnant (arguably worse with psyterrain stuff maybe?) but idt its on par with stuff like hippo ttar etc.

 

[Liz Angeles]

-> A-/B+: I agree with the above posts on florges and think sylveon is similarly strong atm. Cm fairy type + zone is a very strong style right now and both these mons have great utility outside of that as well. I used the team pif used in this replay (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-691585) a lot during ladder tour this week and sylveon won a ridiculous amount of games. I personally think its good enough for A- but at the very least it's on par with a mon like oricorio pom-pom in b+. Shoutouts Sylvi for inspiring me to use it

 

[Easter Bliss]

With the incoming VR update I thought it’d be appropriate to drop some noms, don’t feel like talking about the new mons (blehh I’ll get to it sooner or later) so I’ll just get into Rises and Drops.

Rises
A- -> A: The typing is kind of absurd right now. Nice match ups into mons like Scizor and Quaquaval, although the bigger point in favour of a rise is the crazy offensive potential behind it. Swapping into Pelipper is actually a nightmare and both HDB & Specs offensive variants of Peli are both fantastic breakers in my eyes. Specs outright does not have defensive counterplay and you’re usually forced into pivoting around it between sturdy flying resist + water immune and getting your turns right or dodging hydros. HDB brings a lot more longevity to the table and is still just as scary offensively given the two very strong STAB moves it has to work with.

& B- -> A-/B+: Echoing some of the previous sentiment shared and I’m actually leaning towards the higher end with A-. Once Tinkaton is removed, there are a lot of structures where these two can become outright unstoppable on the spot. Some level of support is required but the reward is fantastic. It’s also worth mentioning that being very bulky Fairy types w/ the ability to Wish pass is just super valuable on its own.

B+ -> A-: With the noms above in mind I think this is only fair. This is one of the best enablers in the metagame imo and being able to remove Tinka is just so nice for so many great mons right now. The cherry on top is that the mon itself isn’t even bad at all without Magnet Pull and both AV and Specs are quite nice in their own rights. Regardless of whether the Fairies should rise to B/B+/A- I think this mon absolutely deserves A- at the bare minimum in its own right for the sheer number of teammates it enables and to the degree it does.

B+ -> A-/A: This mon is actually so good. In addition to being arguably the best fogging option in the tier, it’s just such a good enabler of Scizor and fighters alike. As a fogger I think it’s stellar and in particular I think Zone is a pretty great pairing as picking off Tinkaton means removing the only pre-Tera hazard setter that you actually lose to. Defensive and Offensive Defog are both lovely options right now and I think its worth giving it a place in the A tiers to reflect that. Overall it just has a fantastic amount of set diversity, offensive presence, useful utility, and enables a number of mons just by virtue of its access to knock off.

C+ -> B: Being next to the likes of Blissey and Grimmsnarl is quite frankly disrespectful for the prominence this has had. While you do crave Magnezone support for it, I think that’s honestly fine. Zones a very solid mon and being able to run Dragalge without Tink woes is wonderful. The typing is lovely for the meta, Dracos and Sludge Bombs often become very difficult to answer with Tinkaton removed, Tspikes + Dragon Tail are a tried and true combo, and we’ve seen notable results from it. Dragalge in general has been doing way better than our C+ and even the bulk of B- and I think a rise to B is appropriate to better reflect that.

Drops
B -> B-/C+:It’s bad, it has been bad. Loses to every flyer and ghost. Every other match that features it winds up with Tsareena as a (probably burned) U-Turn bot with no other real purpose.

C+ -> C: I actually nommed this to drop last time and I stand by everything I said back then still. It’s a bad screener that is always dropping something integral to what it wants to do. This mon is ASS :fire: please use Espeon (or even garbage like Sableye, at least they can spinblock..) for your screening purposes instead.

Prior to PS! servers dying I was in the process of building around some interesting and relatively unexplored things that I unfortunately did not get to actually test out/acquire replays for, but if servers are back up quickly then maybe expect another post who knows :3

 

[Twilight]

to A-
I do not rate Greninja that highly but it is definitely a solid addition to the tier. I have mainly stuck to more support-oriented sets revolving around setting Spikes and revenge killing as I do believe it is most effective in this role. Specs felt pretty bad from testing, I think KM put it nicely in the metagame thread. Rain's existence naturally forces Water resist/s on every team and it hurts Gren quite a bit. I'd rather just run Specs Gengar if I wanted a fast Special breaker. I think Expert Belt sets have their merits for the extra power though because I will not forget clicking Hydro vs a Heattom and it living.

to A
The best spinner we have with many other amazing qualities alongside it. Speed tier makes it a great revenge killer, Knock Off lets you punish every defensive switchin, U-turn for momentum, and Regenerator means it isn't locked into Boots as much. I personally have used AV the most and it is great at sponging hits from a lot of stuff, particularly Sandy Shocks (hate that mon). The offensive mixed sets are pretty good and I also gave a Facade Poison Orb set a try that KM suggested to me that makes it an effective physical breaker without needing to rely on Double-Edge for STAB + you don't need to worry about burn from Talon. Overall, very solid addition to the tier.

to A
Agree with the above nom only because of how strong Specs Pelipper is. Been laddering with it a lot and it practically never fails to net one or two KOs a game. Water + Flying is very hard to switch into and rain can provide many benefits in the builder when paired with other Hurricane users, Steel-types, or just other Water-types like Tauros. I don't think the Swift Swimmers should rise to compensate because I still think rain is pretty bad as a playstyle or at the very least I have not encountered or built a rain team that feels consistent.

to A-/B+
Agree with a Sylveon rise solely for the CM sets. I haven't used Florges so I can't really comment on it though it essentially does the same thing. Anyway pair this mon with Magnezone to remove Tink and it can just solo a lot of games. Once it sets up once or twice most teams struggle to deal with it past that point. It's also just got a valuable defensive typing along with good bulk for stuff like Mence, Greninja, Jugulis, etc.

to A-
I personally love Tauros-Aqua, great defensive typing + Intimidate to handle Tyranitar and Scizor while soft checking other stuff like Quack. I usually tend to resort to it more than Quack on my bulky offense builds so imo it doesn't suffer much competition despite the shared typing. The Speed tier is pretty significant and it is relatively flexible in the sets it can run. I have used a good amount of Band and Scarf myself, though I know the BU sets aren't too bad and can be flexibly EV'd as needed. It does struggle with Slowbro and Salamence though they are not impossible matchups depending on the support given + set/Tera.

higher
Just that if the other terrain stuff rises I really would like to see Lucha at least move up out of B-. Personally, I struggle with it more than Poltea especially if the Tera is committed to it completely changing the matchup against stuff like Salamence and Slowbro + grounding it to be immune to priority.

to B+
Graf has fallen off quite a bit and I can't really recall the last time I ran into one. Most HO I run into is Psychic Terrain, which isn't great for it though it naturally still has a great matchup against Screens. The necessity for a mon to shut these teams down + being a Shadow Ball deterrent isn't that high right so I can't see it being in the same rank as some of these better meta defining mons.

to C+
I laddered with Weavile for a bit and ended up dropping it not long after. I just can't see how this Pokemon is good enough to be B with some of these other mons. It is so inconsistent and is one of the few Pokemon so reliant on Tera to do anything. I tried the Tera Electric SD set, which lets it get past most of its checks, though it still needs further support chipping stuff like Tauros-Aqua and Slowbro into range even at +2. Even after an SD it's not that strong especially without a boosting item, though LO + hazards wear it down so much if so. If you ever use your Tera reactively on another Pokemon then it may as well be a dead slot for most of the game until the Ice resist/s are removed, if at all. Band is also just not an effective enough wallbreaker in the meta rn. Also with the drop of Greninja, I'd rather use it over Weavile if I valued something within that high Speed range, for Gengar in particular.

I agree with Zone rise and dropping the other two but don't feel like going into it

 

[Moutemoute]

from NEW to A/A-

set

Greninja @ Expert Belt / Heavy-Duty Boots / Life Orb
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Surf / Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot / Spikes / Toxic Spikes

Even tho people were freaking out about Greninja when it dropped to UU, I strongly believe this Pokémon is far from ban worthy. Protean's change from generation 8 to generation 9 was a pretty good way to nerf Pokémon with this kind of ability without ruining it. I've been playing mostly Expert Belt / Heavy-Duty Boots variants and it's an overall good Pokémon in the tier. It's able to pressure defensive core based around Wo-Chien which is a really good thing imo since the Pokémon is really obnoxious. However, much like Monky25 said, Protean works now as a double-edge sword which prevents Greninja of being too OP in my opinion. Spikes / Toxic Spikes are great tools for a Pokémon that forces switches sur as Greninja. Btw don't use Specs Greninja, it's trully ass. This Pokémon doesn't really want to lock itself on a single move and while it's understandable on Choice Scarf variants because it provides great revenge killing utility, it's overall meeeeeh on Specs. If you're looking for more raw power to compensate Greninja's meh special attack just run Expert Belt or Life Orb.

from NEW to A

set

Cyclizar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Ghost / whatever the fuck you want/need
EVs: 148 HP / 108 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (not of fan of Hasty nature)
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Draco Meteor

When I saw that this Pokémon was unbanned from OU, I was wishing to see it drop in UU. We finally have a fast Rapid Spinner with a ton of utility thanks to Regenerator, Knock Off, U-turn and good coverage with Fire and Grass-types moves. It's really effective as a Rapid Spin user and our best option in the tier for sure. Really splashable overall and a great answer with Assault Vest to common threats such as non Tera Ice Tera Blast Sandy Shock.

Otherwise, I agree with most nominations above, don't have the time to go deeper on my thoughts unfortunately.

 

[BolTingBlazie]

-> A-: tbh im kinda off the quaquaval wave, i said it was broken when it dropped earlier on but im starting to see the light now. rain's prevalence kinda overlaps with quack a ton (even if it's used on rain itself a lot); i feel like it rlly thuds into a ton because of that unless ur using stuff like tera blast tera elec (unironically good set but idk if people have caught onto that yet). it is for sure not bad though and i think its place in the tier has stayed a bit stagnant (arguably worse with psyterrain stuff maybe?) but idt its on par with stuff like hippo ttar etc.

I wouldn't drop it personally, it can still be really good in certain matchups and is still an absolutely demonic breaker to deal with if you end up losing your counterplay to it somehow, and yeah it doesn't fit on rain teams but it doesn't really need rain to be good to begin with. This is a pokemon that is 100% worth the trouble to make work and the usage shows, it can be hard stopped by a few pokemon but knowing what stops it allows you to manipulate matchups for it in your favor if you run pokemon with matchup duck that can deal with its counterplay , allowing Quaquaval to make really strong offensive cores and enabling it to run over teams that should be able to beat it pretty easily if its cores can deal with counterplay that can speedcreep or wall it. If anything I believe it should be A+, for the influence it has had over the tier even if its not necessarily broken alone, being the very thing that caused slowbro to skyrocket in viability, and also it helps keep a ton of stuff in line like scizor so that is another plus. I have already made my case in a previous post so

 

[Melt Gibson]

Here to toss out my opinions on the new stuff and also some changes I do/don't support AND also some noms of my own!! wow!!!!


NEW > A
I was, like many, a member of the crowd who saw "Greninja moved from OU to UU" and immediately panicked. The thing that was Ubers less than a decade ago? In UU? That's gotta be broken beyond belief, right? And, surprisingly, it's not. Protean nerf was a pretty heavy blow, and the lack of Battle Bond (even though the new Battle Bond is probably bad anyway) means less options are available. Meta trends also don't super favor it right now, seeing as Rain means there are just a lot of checks to offensive Waters running around on any serious team you'd encounter that most of the time Greninja is going to be running into one thing or another that just completely walls it off. 103 SpA also isn't awful, but doesn't really cut it in some situations when you're trying to break. However, where I think Greninja truly shines and is genuinely excellent is with a Choice Scarf as a revenge killer. The ability to dunk on Noivern, Kilowattrel, Oricorio, Talonflame, Gengar, Sandy Shocks, and +1 Salamence, Iron Jugulis, and Haxorus is huge. Water STAB + Ice Beam is really all that's required, and then you just pick two of Dark Pulse/U-Turn/Grass Knot and you're set. All things considered, having a fast Dragon/Flying killer is really good for the tier. Greninja and its impact on the meta are both very good and I'm glad to have it here.


NEW > B+/A-
Reigning lord of cheese, but also just a really scary thing to see at team preview. Single-handedly has revived PsyTerrain and made it the dumb stupid matchup fish we all hated a few months ago. Blocking this thing off without Slowking in the tier is a massive pain, Armor Cannon just fucking tears through so much shit, and Aura Sphere and Energy Ball are both decent coverage options for things like Tyranitar or Slowbro, the latter of which you can really just brute force your way through in some situations. Expanding Force is just a huge nuke that you have to be prepped for at all times. However, both inside and outside of PsyTerrain, I think that the ID/CM set with Stored Power is the best. Weakness Policy lets you capitalize off of one stray hit and immediately turn into a fucking monster within two turns or less, and that's really all the time Arma needs to go from mundane to Big Fucking Problem. It does have the issue of having kind of a shitty matchup into the current meta, which also accentuates the problem of it being liable to getting cheesed out due to its mediocre special bulk and Weak Armor being a double edged sword that makes you susceptible to priority. Still good though, fits on a variety of teams and forces you to react.


NEW > A-
I don't think I've seen a single person, before or after this shift, with anything bad to say about Cyclizar. We expected it to be good, and we were right, it just came and quietly started being one of the most consistent and reliable utility picks in the entire tier. Knock Off, U-Turn, and Rapid Spin all on one thing? And it has Regenerator to form cores with Slowbro? Hot damn that's nice. You also have a lot of funky options to run in the last slot for AV sets. Draco Meteor to just have a source of big chunky damage, Overheat to deal with Scizor and surprise Tinkaton, Power Whip to deal with Gastrodon and Quagsire, etc. I honestly think the flex slot on Cyclizar is still underexplored, Ice Spinner for things like Salamence or Breaking Swipe to be supremely annoying both seem good in their own right. It does have a couple of issues, notably that even with AV it's not super bulky and does have to get in and get out rather quickly, but it's definitely a tier staple in the making if I've ever seen one.


C+ > B-/B
I already detailed my thoughts as to why a Dragalge rise is warranted in this post that was before the May shifts, and it's still a prominent offensive threat that exerts power by just looming over the opposing team and threatening to wipe them out after Tinkaton is gone. Good mon, not much else to say that I or someone else hasn't already.


A- > A
This one makes sense to me, Pelipper literally enables an entire playstyle that has been on a ban slate and has gained the ire of several players within the tier enough that even after it was removed and came back, people are still constantly petitioning to ban it. It's one of the few slow pivots we have outside of the likes of Magnezone, has access to Knock Off, recovery with Roost, and also just does a shitload of damage due to giving itself boosted Surf/Hydro Pump and 100% Hurricanes. Specs sets also exist and will absolutely beat the shit out of you if you aren't ready, especially considering that Peli's coverage is already hard to switch into without opening the floodgates to the offensive threats it enables.


B+ > A-
One of the most consistent Defog users we have with huge variety in sets and a great defensive typing for the current meta. Specs is a special breaker that Tyranitar can't wall, Spirit Shackle with Scarf and Tera Ghost traps and kills things like Talonflame, Long Reach is just generally very useful. Good mon, use it more, it's very splashable and does what you need it to do 99% of the time.


B > C+
Can we give this to RU already, please? I'd really like to stop seeing it. It just clicks U-Turn and gets burned like half of the time, it loses to all of the bugs and fliers and ghosts, Rain isn't kind to it, Synthesis is ass recovery because of all the bad weather running around, it lost Knock, etc etc ad infinitum. Brambleghast and Decidueye just function in this thing's role a million times better. Queenly Majesty used to be a pretty distinctive quality but it's slowly starting to not be enough as most priority users are either fading out of relevancy or just have other ways to kill it. It's also no longer unique as a hazard remover with the ability to pivot now that Decidueye and Cyclizar are available. Just a yikes mon all around.


A- > B+
Oh how the mighty have fallen. If you told me three months ago I'd be making this post, I would have called you a liar, but here I am. Slither is really struggling to keep up and it feels like no amount of new life that people breathe into it with tech and new sets is enough to keep it afloat. I haven't even seen one since early April if I'm being completely honest, outside of a few friendlies. Scizor has just taken over the role of "strong physical Bug that clicks spammable priority and kills things" due to Bullet Punch not requiring you to switch and having a better defensive typing. Really sad to see it happen but grandpa is starting to slow down a good bit.


B > B-
Man, the meta has not been kind to you the past couple of months. Scream being everywhere because of Iron Hands was kind of the beginning of the end for homeboy over here and it really has not gotten better. Slowbro's rise to fame and Salamence becoming even more of an omnipresent threat in the tier have just ruined Gallade's life. We're getting more speed control, Rain dumpsters it, Gardevoir destroys it, there are now actual options to wall it out, and most importantly, people are now aware of and know how to play around Gallade's usual bullshit. It's just getting harder and harder to justify on teams these days and I'm seeing RUBL in his near future unless something big happens.

OTHER THINGS I AGREE WITH BUT DON'T HAVE ENOUGH JUICE IN ME TO WRITE A POST ABOUT:
Zone rise
Sylveon rise
Tauros-Aqua rise
Golduck rise
Grimmsnarl drop
Grafaiai drop

 

[Adaam]

I think Specs Gren is a very good A+ level threat. Water/Dark/Ice is near perfect coverage and Specs mitigates the Protean nerf more than Belt/LO (which are also way too weak imo). I think people are underselling how difficult this mon is to cover defensively, the SpDef Fairies take a lot from Surf/Hydro and Tinker needs Twave to threaten back.

Last slot is very flexible, you can't go wrong with GK/Shuriken/Spikes/Toxic Spikes/U-Turn. All are great, though I like GK the least since I flinch Gastrodon every time.

 

[Lily]

Now that I'm all done with UULT qualifying I have the time to make this post so I wanna do a few thought dumps. First the new mons:

UR -> UR
Fun meme to play around with but just not very good unfortunately. Sorry little guy!

UR -> C
This guy is niche, but has some unique properties as far as Water-type breakers go. Knock Off access is really big, and so is Megahorn in a tier with so much Wo-Chien running around. Samurott is weird because it's slow but not that slow; with max speed you're slower than basically every offensive Pokemon save for Tyranitar (you can go Jolly to outspeed Magnezone but idt it's worth) but you're also faster than pretty much every defensive mon. The set I was running was Swords Dance, Liquidation, Knock Off, Megahorn @ Leftovers - you're kinda walled by Salamence but Knock + hazard pressure is good enough. Give it a try, it's not as bad as you'd think; still ultimately quite niche and tons of competition with other Water breakers but it's viable enough I'd say.

UR -> A-
Annoying matchup fish mon that really makes you respect clicking physical moves. I think it has too many issues to be extremely good between Slowbro, Gren, Tar etc all being quite popular right now but it is very very lethal and has to be respected.

UR -> A
I agree with Adaam that Specs is the best set; I've seen people saying it's not that good which I kinda agree with but it's the best at breaking balance which I feel is what you want Gren for. Despite the Speed tier it's not really a good anti-offense mon; it's too frail for it, doesn't get enough opportunities to click, is abusable when locked in and is just barely too slow (Noiv, Kilowatt, Talon all outspeeding you sucks). I don't really rate the other sets particularly highly; they're really weak and Gren needs to be threatening OHKOs on as much of the meta as possible to be effective. That said, Specs is still really good and if you click well it can seriously shred those Cyclizar/Wo-Chien type teams. I'm flip flopping between A- and A; I don't think it's good enough for A+, doesn't feel defining to me in the way that stuff like Sciz, Tinka, Talon etc. do. Please stop using Loaded Dice!

UR -> A
Was initially thinking A+ but I feel it's good to be conservative here. Bike is good! Very customisable mon and super obnoxious to play around. I have enjoyed Boots more than AV personally, though I certainly have a lot of respect for both; I don't really like how awkward AV can be if you can't get the spin off, but I'm intrigued by the idea of pairing it with something like Defog Talon on fat. I think the Knock + Turn + Regen combo is just tried and true, and having it on a fast mon with Spin is unprecedented. Time will tell what's in store for Cyclizar but yeah I think it's really solid.

Now on to some other stuff.

A+ -> A
Feels rly ass to use, very passive and only ever uses its turns to up which has been kinda wrecked with the influx of Decidueye and Cyclizar. It's not very good at handling most of the stuff I tend to want it for, e.g. useless vs Pawmot, not very good vs Sandy. It's not even that reliable against Greninja. I'm rating Quagsire and Hippowdon higher right now since they can check the very dominant Tyranitar decently well, but I think all 3 should just be A.

A+ -> A
Kinda fell off the face of the earth and it's not really hard to see why. Bike is absolutely everywhere and kicks its ass lol. The general speed of the tier went up hugely as well; not only are Cyclizar and Greninja here to ruin the vibes, but Noivern and Kilowattrel are both significantly better now too (more on those later). I did not run into many Gengars at all and when I did they felt extremely underwhelming. Just not a super defining mon rn imo; still obviously very lethal and needs respect, but it's not shining as much.

A -> A+
Yeaaah idk why this guy dropped lol CB is fucking ridiculous and DD is the single most lethal sweeper in the tier imo. I shredded countless people with this mon; if you play it properly it will just get ko after ko. Extremely defining, does not have bad matchups.

A- -> A
What a shock right? The general increase in Speed tiers is great for the bat, but especially being able to offensively check both Greninja and Cyclizar is absolutely huge. Its defensive utility (esp with Tera Steel) is crazy good and bailed me out of countless games, and fast Dracos are just so, so hard to deal with in a tier with minimal Fairies. That said, I'm not going to A+ just yet because I do think the Zone + Fairy structure that's getting popular can be tough for it; it bullies most of the mons on those teams but Sylv/Florg are hard stops so you kinda have to find a way around that first. That said I think it's the best speed control option in the tier rn since Scarfers that aren't Pawmot kinda suck and Gren itself can't do it since you need something faster than that; the UULT ladder usage shows just how amazing this mon is; it will get haters bc it's me nomming it but idc pls rise

keep where it is
Slither's really good rn tbh, stop using the bad sets though. Pads Morning Sun is really solid and has super unique and effective defensive utility as Wo-Chien counterplay, a good Greninja check, a solid ish Sandy check among other things. https://pokepast.es/0229a98161d961c1 give it a shot I promise it deserves this rank

B+ -> A-
Really good Defogger and the bulky sets with Knock have taken off very well. They're great glue and get a ton of usage. V nice mon to slot onto teams, kinda the "perfect sixth" a lot of the time. It's pretty unspectacular in what it does but it's reliable.

B+ -> B-/C+
I'm sorry but literally who the hell is this mon dude, nobody uses it and even when it does get used it does fuck all. It's so mediocre and I don't understand why we have ranked it so high for so long. The only decent sets, SubNP, are just done better by Heat. Scarf is god awful. No thank you.

B -> B+
This guy kicks ass and really shouldn't have been this low to begin with; DD is one of the scariest mons to give a free turn to and will almost always force a KO or two, or a defensive Tera response. You can abuse that in so many ways (see my sample psyspam). It still only really fits on offense so it can only go so high but it's really good at what it does

B -> A-
He's pretty cool on rain but I wanna talk about pivot Kilowatt which is simialr to Sandy in a lot of ways but is also amazing Speed control AND a solid Sandy check itself

Kilowattrel @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hurricane
- Tera Blast
- Roost

This thing is generally pretty tough to switch around. All-purpose special walls can tank it for a while, like Tinkaton, so it's not as immediately threatening as Sandy, but it makes up for that in key ways; being a good Sandy check itself, having reliable recovery, maintaining its Volt immunity after Tera, and being so so fast. It's really frail but that's not that big a deal tbh, and it's not -that- Tera reliant - kinda depends on your matchup but vs some Grounds (Sandy if it Teras before you, Donphan, Quag) you don't really need to burn the Tera on it. Speed tier above Gren and Vern is clutch esp bc it can OHKO the former. Slower than Talon and OHKOd by BB after Tera sucks but it be like that sometimes. I'm really high on this set; there isn't a ton of natural counterplay, the bike is annoying but far from insurmountable and you can vortex the shit out of it anyway. Please give this a try! It's crazy good. Kilowatt's not just a rain mon!

B- -> B
Speaking of rain, we have fibsh. Sushi isn't as good as he used to be but the new influx of both rain and Greninja has led to a solid niche for him as a great offensive Water check that can be really difficult to handle on its own merits. I think it's fairly reasonable to fit too, and spinblocking it is really hard - not even Decidueye can manage. Being a special attacker AV Bike can't deal with is nice too. Cool mon

and co C+ -> like B
Psyspam is good but not that good. Quaquaval is the best abuser. Don't have a ton to say here that hasn't already been covered by others.

A- -> B+
Yea it feels weird to be doing this but I think the meta is unkind to its typical sets rn. One thing that's actually really good is Scarf; it's insanely obnoxious to pivot around and we're sorely lacking in Scarf Uturners. I still believe this is a top 3 mon you have to keep in mind when you're building hyper offense other than psyspam, for that reason I do not want to drop it below B+. I see it at a similar level of viability as stuff like Gardevoir; it's solid, you have to respect it in the builder, but it's not gonna fit on everything and sometimes the cookie just doesn't crumble the way you want it to.

Fine with the bump up for the Fairies + Zone. Dragalge sucks though.

Do not drop Pawmot. Like at all. Life Orb is RIDICULOUS with people not using Hippo as much. Bring one on the ladder and you'll see what I mean.

Ty for reading. :D

 

[MrE]

Maybe I'm just really shit in the teambuilder (likely) but I find Noivern to be a massive threat and really annoying, due to that I've been finding scarf Gren better than specs Gren due to being able to get the jump on the bat.

 

[Crushy]

Howdy, making quite a few nominations but I'll try to keep this short.

to S
Wo-Chien is a very prominent influence within the tier. this might just be the biggest offender in the tier for mons that you cannot ignore while building as some teams can be dictated as good or bad based on their ability to break this mon. it's defensive profile, set versatility, and ability to make progress against any team consistently makes a standout contender to be among the other S ranks.

to A+
The trends last shift and this newer shift have favored ttar a lot in it's ability to keep rain teams at ease, and also being able to take on the each of the newest drops to an extent. it's defensive sets are solid, but the offensive sets it can run in Choice Band and DD sets can really shred some of the more common defensive cores atm, like Salamence/Slowbro/Ttar or Talon/Ground/Grass cores. This mon always finds a way to keep up with tier changes and is definitely worth rising a rank.

to A
Our resident ghost type, while still potent, has been finding itself in unkind trends within the tier. the addition of Greninja and Cyclizar have only reinforced this further in giving it even less freedom to really do the things it wants to in a lot of matchups. dropping a sub rank would be a more accurate reflection of where this mon stands in the meta.

to A
Can't speak too much on this mon personally but based on how I've seen it perform, it's a good pivot into many balance cores and a few offensive cores like Scizor/Quaqaval/Dragon so i support a rise for this.

to A
I haven't really thought highly of Slowbro in general, but to say that it hasn't been performing consistently would be wrong. this mon has only gotten better and can really hold some teams together very well while being able to maintain a decent offensive presence depending on it's coverage and ID + body press sets can make for a threatening wincon too.

to A
I also happen to share in the sentiment that many aren't giving this mon enough credit in how threatening it really is. even if many think it's damage output is disappointing, it's a major threat to many team compositions especially on the fact that it has the means for threatening most water resists in the tier so dealing with it in practice isn't as easy as it's made out to be. It's movepool and set versatility is very good as well and it's another mon that you legit cannot ignore in the builder. I personally think spikes on it are only worth running on dedicated lead or specs sets. I'm a big fan of it's 4atks coverage sets and 3atks T-spikes sets. i also find that loaded dice water shuriken sets are pretty good. I could see this mon in A+ rank as well.

to A-
Very cool mon in UU, great utility, speed tier, and a movepool that you have to respect in practice. AV sets can put in lots of work, and i think people should try exploring offensive sets more. It's only real drawbacks are that it is frail, and bulkier sets can have a weak damage output so i think A- is a good starting point for it.

to A-
The demon has returned. a very good balance breaker, especially now that it's arguably best check Slowking is no longer around, and can heavily punish Slowbro builds, which is a good quality to have as a fire type. this mon alone also gave a boost to Psychic Terrain teams and having good matchups into stuff like Talon and Scizor as an offensive mon is very neat. it's set up sets in CM/weakness policy/Iron Defense sets remain lethal and can still randomly sweep some teams, which is surprising when the trends, on paper, would appear to be against it.

to B+
Slither, while definitely underrated, has fallen off a lot. It can be effective when you build around it, but it's not as splashable as it once was believed to be. Additionally, with the switch to more pivot-oriented sets, missing out on atk investment makes it an unreliable means as a revengekiller, which can be costly. At this point in the tier, the title for second best bug following Scizor is easily Lokix. I've never been a fan of Slither's pivot set, but protective pads and scarf sets are the only things worth using on it atm.

to A-
This might be a big jump that im vouching for, but i think it's appropriate for how well it thrives in the more offensive meta that UU had/has pre-shift and currently. Before the most recent shift, i genuinely saw this mon as a top 10 in the metagame. Much remains the same besides the slight comeback of terrain teams. This thing can obliterate rain teams and many offense builds that lack good bug resist by virtue of just revengekilling and claiming each time it comes in. this is another mon that can pose a serious threat into Slowbro/Mence builds and continues to have one of the most commanding influences in the tier when it hits the field. some may not agree with such a massive jump, but it's current ranking on the VR heavily undersells how capable this mon really is so even if it doesn't jump to the proposed rank, i think it should be placed above Slither to reflect how the trends favor Lokix much better.

to B+
This thing is the pinnacle of a matchup fish. the addition of rain and rain checks, priority being common, and ghost wo-chien dominance all make it much tougher for it to sweep often. It's a mon with no real defensive value to teams either and heavily tera reliant to actually break stuff, this mon just doesn't have the consistency to where B+ would be more accurate to how it performs.

to A-
some may disagree with mowtom's place in the meta, but this mon has been picking up and for good reason too. this is a good balance breaker and is a grass that can non-rest wo-chien and can even potentially beat terad wo-chien too. having a naturally decent matchup into rain too, mowtom can also soft check some offensive mons, being especially lethal into Scizor/Quaqaval cores and the ability to run volt switch makes it a solid offensive pivot that the grounds of the tier dont want to switch into. i will agree that scarf mowtom is pretty mid, but sub plot and plot + protect are very good into many matchups. I think it has qualities that make it worthy of rising.

to A-
It's been talked about already a little bit, but mag + fairy cores are very good in the tier atm and magnezone alone can be very threatening with specs and scarfed sets. not much else to say here.

Fairies:
to A-
to B+
to B
All these fairies are worthing rising. i see Garde as the best special fairy in it's ability to hard punish some team structures, namely rain, teams that rely on Scizor as their steel type, and how dangerous it can be into some bulkier teams in using trace to take advantage of Alo and non twave Slowbro as well. It's a great partner into Magnezone as well and is also the easiest fairy to enable mag into trapping steels thru the form of Teleport. The recent trends favor it more too in scarf sets posing major threats into Greninja/Cyclizar cores and Armarouge is a fairy resist that doesn't switch into it kindly either. Definitely worth rising.

Florges and Sylveon are fairies that require a bit more support compared to garde, but can put in work. of the two, i personally think more highly of Florges in that i feel it does everything better than Sylv outside of purely wishpassing sets. when speaking of CM and Specs sets, i think Florges pulls off both better on the basis of it's speed tier (for specs) being relevant in letting it outspeed things like CB Ttar and Specs Magnezone, something that sylveon cannot do and it's only for the cost of some damage output since Florges doesn't get Pixilate but the speed certainly makes up for it. One could argue that these are basically the same, but I'd rank Florges higher than Sylveon.

to B+
A worthwhile pick for rain teams, good typing defensively for the playstyle and decent offensive presence. can be tough for it to break some of the special walls in the tier without tera though, which makes me think only rising a subrank for now would be better for it.

to B+
Another rain mon, one that i think is worth ranking on par with Floatzel in that I'd argue they have essentially a similar presence in a battle just on opposite spectrums of special and physical. a great movepool naturally for rain teams to utilize as well, but no real defensive presence.

Terrain:
to B- / to B
It might seem weird to rank mons from the same playstyle differently but i think this is a similar case to rain where there are some standout mons of the playstyle. In this case, the slight revival of terrain teams should make indeedee rise, but admittedly it's not a great mon by itself the same way some of the other terrain mons are. Hawlucha, despite droping to RU, has good merit for the playstyle in being able to outspeed Floatzel in rain and i think hawlu should be ranked equally to Polteageist.

to B-
this is a mon that does require proper support, but it is something that does benefit from Magnezone teams well while having unique defensive traits for the playstyle while maintaining a good offensive presence. Truly only held back by being rather slow and the ever popular ground types, but it is a step above the C+ ranks.

to B-
The trends repeatedly get worse for this mon and its peak has long past. All it has going for it in this meta is the speed tier and stabs, assuming you can manage to get it on the field. It's not a mon with any real defensive value and it doesn't perform as consistently as the other B ranks; performs about as well as some of the other B- mons like Staraptor so i think a drop would suit it more accurately.

to B
Despite dropping to RU, this is a mon that had a decent matchup into the trends on the basis of Timid speed boosting SD sets with tera grass. this is the only set worth using on it as this point in time even if loaded dice rock blast sets are neat but these sets dont have the consistency that booster sd does. Thorns is a very good balance breaker and offense slayer and the timid spread gives it good bulk which can make it difficult to take down. this thing can legitimately sweep teams a lot easier than many of the other set up mons can and it's base typing alone has good defensive qualities for offense, most importantly being a flying and electric resist for the playstyle. I see this mon more along the lines of the other B ranks than the B- ones.

Last thing, i support rising and think everything else is fine where it it for now.
Thanks for reading.

 

[Lily]

to B
Despite dropping to RU, this is a mon that had a decent matchup into the trends on the basis of Timid speed boosting SD sets with tera grass. this is the only set worth using on it as this point in time even if loaded dice rock blast sets are neat but these sets dont have the consistency that booster sd does. Thorns is a very good balance breaker and offense slayer and the timid spread gives it good bulk which can make it difficult to take down. this thing can legitimately sweep teams a lot easier than many of the other set up mons can and it's base typing alone has good defensive qualities for offense, most importantly being a flying and electric resist for the playstyle. I see this mon more along the lines of the other B ranks than the B- ones.

Just so you know, these sets are strictly inferior to max HP, max speed DD sets.

+1 0 Atk Quark Drive Iron Thorns Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Tinkaton: 404-476 (108 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0- Atk Iron Thorns Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Tinkaton: 362-426 (96.7 - 113.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+4 0- Atk Iron Thorns Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Tinkaton: 542-638 (144.9 - 170.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 0 Atk Quark Drive Iron Thorns Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Tinkaton: 536-632 (143.3 - 168.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Extremely negligible power difference at +4, worse power at +2. You lose a lot of flexibility because you can't set up multiple times and still be a threat, you're extremely non-threatening without a boost, and you're not getting the jump on Scarfers which you can get at +2 Speed thanks to DD. The immediate speed you get seems nice on paper until you realise you're at 266 Attack and are completely useless until you boost up. As a bonus, you can also actually OHKO Quagsire.

0- Atk Tera Grass Iron Thorns Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 312-372 (79.1 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 0 Atk Quark Drive Tera Grass Iron Thorns Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 460-544 (116.7 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(Good post though! Appreciate the contributions :D)