Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings

[Lily]

Tatsugiri

To give a quick rundown of my own opinion (I voted it to A-; most people voted it around B+), Tatsugiri is the best Spinner when it comes to actually Spinning because none of the Ghost-types in the tier want anything to do with it. Gengar and Bramble are clapped by Draco, Mimikyu and Polteageist obviously dont wanna switch in for risk of getting their setup opportunities ruined and the likes of Palossand, Oricorio-Sensu, and Drifblim can't even do much to it even if they do come in on the right turn. This makes Tatsugiri one of the best choices for hazard removal, since our Defog options are pretty poor to say the least.

Beyond that it's just a big offensive threat. It can flop if it's played recklessly because its physical bulk is pretty middling, but good natural special bulk and NP + insane STABs is SUPER good. Like, the amount of mons that can actually take a hit from a +2 Tatsugiri is really limited; Tinkaton and Scream Tail are the main irritants, but stuff like Slowking and Gastrodon that supposedly "check" you are just setup fodder, and they can't take boosted hits anyway. Considering it can boost its Speed and then Tera into one of Steel, Fairy or Ghost to save itself from any given priority, it can definitely be a nightmare once it gets going properly.

Here are a couple replays where I used Tatsu to good effect:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9uu-1790241219-bgjciziqp6t4kp740laq5a6sfw24hj5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9uu-672612

It's just a really good and integral part of hazard stacking teams which are incredibly solid rn. Honestly I think B+ is underrating it quite a bit, but it's true that it sees fairly little usage, so until it gets a bit more exploration this is a fine ranking.

 

[Monky25]

I will now be responding to the questions that have not been answered- thank you Slip, udongirl , pomfpomfpluff Mossy Sandwich Deathbringer7 and Lily for answering the other questions. You directly hit the mark and I generally agree with what you said.

Hi guys, this VR looks quite accurate overall, although I'm curious about why is Oricorio-Pom-Pom in A.

Oricorio-Pom-Pom is just a really good pick right now. Lily puts it as “the UU Volcarona” because of how scary it will be given only one or two Quiver Dances. With bulk investment and its typing, Oricorio is able to set up on and break past a lot of foes like Slither Wing, Brambleghast, Tsareena, Slowbro, Hawlucha, and Sandy Shocks if turned into Tera Ground. It also walls Dragon Dance + Roost Salamence and takes advantage of it and Noivern’s reliance on Draco Meteor to hit it to boost in front of them and heal with Roost. Not much is standing in its way after a boost, it’s just a really strong sweeper that takes advantage of a bunch of metagame staples and utilizes Terastallization to a high degree to outright win games. It’s just a really strong pick right now in the tournament scene with very high success and had massive support for an A rank at minimum.

why is mimi so high up, like isnt A super super high esp with the many things that threaten disguise

Mimikyu is actually a really solid option right now in the metagame. We’re seeing a lot more usage of it outside of spikes hyper offense teams on more BO and even balance builds. Disguise being able to take a hit in an emergency is a really valuable trait against foes like Iron Hands, Tyranitar, Slither Wing, Gengar, etc while being strong into a fair chunk of defensive Pokémon like Wo-Chien, Slowking, and Gastrodon. Tera fire is a very useful set vs Talonflame and Tinkaton. Mimikyu isn’t without its flaws; you need Life Orb to do damage which compounds longevity struggles and it does fall a bit flat into Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Grafaiai while being reliant on Tera vs Talonflame and Tinkaton, but it’s still generally a good Pokémon that received lots of support to be ranked in A-.

Let Iron Hands celebrate for a few days before it gets banned.

Is there a specific reason why Brute Bonnet is so low or is just outclassed by wo-chien and bisharp?

I’d say Brute Bonnet is just pretty mediocre; it isn’t necessarily outclassed by either since Wo-Chien is a defensive Pokémon while Bisharp is more of a bulky sweeper and Brute Bonnet is a wall breaker. Grass+Dark on a slow Pokémon isn’t particularly amazing, and while Wo-Chien’s great bulk and ability to act as a potent annoyance with utility moves Leech Seed, Knock, Foul Play, Poison Powder, and/or Ruination works out, Brute Bonnet doesn’t really have that. It’s a slow wallbreaker that doesn’t really get the KOs necessary in a bulkier metagame and is pretty reliant on Spore and Sucker Punch against a lot of the tier with the former being used meaning it has to drop reliable Dark-type STAB. Compared to other physical wallbreakers like Pawmot, Slither Wing, and Tyranitar it just falls short. It’s still had some success, mainly Loaded Dice Bullet Seed, which allows it to still retain a ranking, but it’s really something that needs a lot of support to be built around with a payoff that isn’t always worth it.

Why is Gengar A+?

Gengar is a very strong Pokemon and actually got a few S rank votes, but it ended up in A+ mainly because even though it's incredibly strong, versatile, centralizing and has a massive influence on the builder, it does come up a bit short at times in-game against more offensive teams that do not give it the chance to click attacks at times. We’re also seeing a lot of Tinkaton + Ghost resists (like Wo Chien which has gotten much better) + two faster Pokemon which can shut down Gengar. The entire story behind the debate on Gengar is that it can be handled easier in game which I presume is why others voted it to A+. As the metagame develops we could certainly see it rise to S rank but the VR team didn’t particularly see it as so much better than Pokemon like Pawmot, Sandy Shocks, Talonflame, and basically the rest in A+ to reside in S-.

And now, you can freely make nominations in this thread! Remember that the Iron Hands suspect test is ending tonight and may result in a ban, so be conscious about nominations you plan to make and how a potential Iron Hands ban could affect them before you post!

 

[JoeMama]

A-->A
Not broken yet but nothing wants to switch into its stabs + CC. It still hits like a truck and scarf sets can clean offense and speedties DD Mence. The main issue is Stealth Rock weakness and low bulk with meh bulk and defensive typing, but one read and the game could be over with no true defensive answers bar a fair few.
Edit: Also the likely hands ban is one less Pokemon that can frustrate it in its Biggest Bird spam.

 

[SentSawTooMuch]

I'm surprised to see that Wo Chien did quite well. Is it worth it despite the Grass/Dark typing? Is Terastalizing a big part on why its good?

 

[pokemonisfun]

I'm surprised to see that Wo Chien did quite well. Is it worth it despite the Grass/Dark typing? Is Terastalizing a big part on why its good?

Yes, using Tera into Ghost/Fairy is very common so the fighting types like Slither W and Iron Hands no longer can easily beat Wo Chien. I also see Water and Poison Tera occasionally.

Knock Off and being able to check a lot of offensive threats like Gyarados makes Wo Chien very good imo.

A much less common but possibly effective set is Growth Trailblaze to function as a sun sweeper.

 

[I am New]

Why is gallade and donphan so low?
They were top 10 used mons iirc and does their jobs decently well. Gallade does break quite well and donphan is a utility machine with spin rocks knock prio powerful eq ....

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

Why is gallade and donphan so low?
They were top 10 used mons iirc and does their jobs decently well. Gallade does break quite well and donphan is a utility machine with spin rocks knock prio powerful eq ....

I wouldn't necessarily say that Gallade and Donphan are that low to be honest, since they fit in with the definition of what a B+ mon should be.

Gallade suffers from a dependency on heavy team support to get in because of it's lack of defensive utility and low speed. Comparing this to a mon within say the A tier like Slither Wing (which I think is being underrated but w/e), you can kind of get a bigger idea of what kind of mons reside in the tiers above B+. Because of these reasons it fits with the definition of what a B+ mon is, aka an important piece of the metagame that's less overall consistent and potent than what's ranked above it.

That same thing applies to Donphan and pretty much every other hazard removal mon within the tier ignoring Talonflame. Donphan relies heavily on good matchups in order to consistently Spin, which is hard when it struggles against a lot of metagame staples at the moment (it spins on like nothing between S-A- for free). It's also just kind of a bad pokemon outside of Rapid Spin, since that and Knock are legitemately the only things it has over the stronger competition you can find in the above ranks.

It's for these reasons that both mons fit with the criteria set for the A- and B+ ranks; "These are Pokemon that still have an impactful role in the metagame and should still be accounted for, but lack the consistency and/or potency to be ranked any higher". Donphan and Gallade are good pokemon within the metagame, they're just not as good or consistent as the mons rated above them. Personally I think that Gallade has a shot in A- since I'd definitely put it at a similar power level as something like Staraptor, it's definitely on the higher end of the "good but inconsistent" scale.

 

[I am New]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Gallade and Donphan are that low to be honest, since they fit in with the definition of what a B+ mon should be.

Gallade suffers from a dependency on heavy team support to get in because of it's lack of defensive utility and low speed. Comparing this to a mon within say the A tier like Slither Wing (which I think is being underrated but w/e), you can kind of get a bigger idea of what kind of mons reside in the tiers above B+. Because of these reasons it fits with the definition of what a B+ mon is, aka an important piece of the metagame that's less overall consistent and potent than what's ranked above it.

That same thing applies to Donphan and pretty much every other hazard removal mon within the tier ignoring Talonflame. Donphan relies heavily on good matchups in order to consistently Spin, which is hard when it struggles against a lot of metagame staples at the moment (it spins on like nothing between S-A- for free). It's also just kind of a bad pokemon outside of Rapid Spin, since that and Knock is legitemately the only things it has over the stronger competition you can find in the above ranks.

It's for these reasons that both mons fit with the criteria set for the A- and B+ ranks; "These are Pokemon that still have an impactful role in the metagame and should still be accounted for, but lack the consistency and/or potency to be ranked any higher". Donphan and Gallade are good pokemon within the metagame, they're just not as good or consistent as the mons rated above them. Personally I think that Gallade has a shot in A- since I'd definitely put it at a similar power level as something like Staraptor, since I think that it's definitely on the higher end of the "good but inconsistent" scale.

I mean gallade is similarly as consistent as stuff like luke and raptor thats why i asked why its low. Donphan sits on the incredibly popular sr setters tink ttar while setting them up with a decently strong eq and knock off too. its utility it provides is huge. even in a bad matchup vs quag or gastro it can still cripple them

they could be A- right???

 

[Mossy Sandwich]

Okay I've got a few noms, some up some down. Most of these were considered pre-hands ban, but I'd say they're still up to date, so here goes. This is another color-coded post so here's how you can identify everything: Nomination to rise, Nomination to drop, The pokemon being discussed, Good matchups, Neutral matchups, Bad matchups, Other pokemon. I apologize to any colorblind person reading this if the color choices are confusing for you.

Talonflame A+ --> A
Some people would probably argue for even lower, but I think A would be fair. Anyway, while Talonflame was doing very well in January, it feels like it has been hit really hard this month, not just with the new drops, but also with the meta developing. First and most notably is the drop of Pawmot which is a physical attacker that does not fear Talonflame at all, being able to outright kill it pretty easily and shrugging off burns with Natural Cure. In general though, the meta has grown rather hostile to it. The physically offensive metagame has shifted in a way that Talonflame really can't risk switching in, staying in or burning many of the stuff it otherwise would have liked to. As said, Pawmot is a new physical attacker that shrugs off burns, but it wants nothing to do with other physical threats like Tyranitar and Lycanroc-Dusk. Certain pokemon such as Bisharp, Tinkaton or Hippowdon that it would've been considered good against in the past are adapting in a way that Talonflame switching in is actually beneficial to them. Tinkaton gets to Knock its Boots then Encore it into a useless move, basically forcing out Talon while getting Rocks up and removing its hazard immunity, Hippowdon has started running Stone Edge, not just for Talon, but for other threatening Ground immunities like Tera'd TTar or Oricorio and Bisharp has been slotting Facade in recently, meaning it can almost welcome a burn from it and can even grab a sneaky kill if you're not ready for it. Speaking of Facade, CB TTar has also started running it now that it has a freed up 4th slot after Orthworm's leave. It's also worth noting that the metagame has been becoming more specially oriented with Salamence focusing more on special sets and Oricorio becoming more popular, both of which may actually welcome a burn as it can let them dominate Quagsire if you're using it. I won't deny that Talon still has great value, but it's been diminished quite a bit lately. I've found it also rarely gets free turns, especially if you're thinking of using it as a defogger as it's often forced to Roost or Will-O-Wisp else it risks instant death. Even if it finds a switch-in opportunity against something like Slither Wing, it's likely you're just eating a U-Turn then getting forced out by Sandy Shocks or Kilowattrel. It's also pretty terrible at preventing hazards from going up in the first place since the best setters can all threaten it really well. Look at the hazards setters in A+: Tinkaton and Quagsire can cripple it really badly unless you're using Taunt (which you likely won't be able to fit alongside Defog in the first place) and Tyranitar and Sandy Shocks threaten it with a straight KO. Talonflame has been having it very rough lately, I think you can just look at its overall matchups against the top mons and see that it doesn't want anything to do with the majority of them.

Altaria C --> B+
How the hell did this end up in C? There are a lot of things Altaria does well, specifically for Balance and similarly bulky teamstyles, it's generally good at playing the long game. First of all, it's probably the most consistent Defoggers in the tier. Our options are still not great, but Altaria isn't the easiest thing to force out of the field (unlike Talonflame, it prevents Slither+Sandy cores from clicking the pivot button forever) and as such, can generally find turns to get the Defog off. It's also one of the few status absorbers available. It can switch into stuff like Quagsire or Fire Tauros comfortably to ensure other members of your team aren't getting crippled. It for sure suffers from passivity issues, it's easily shut down by Taunt and Substitute notably, but I believe it's the best anchor for bulky teams due to its reliability in keeping hazards off the field and due to how difficult it can be to force out. You can often just stay in to check the intentions of pokemon like Iron Jugulis or Gengar, making sure your switch-in isn't getting chipped more than you're comfortable with. I just consider it as a great consistent option, one that may not be super splashable and has its weaknesses, but the things it does help with are valuable enough for me to say it's for sure not one of the worst picks in the metagame.

Weavile C+ --> B/B+
Weavile is a strange mon as it's very easy to call awful due to previous experiences you might've had with it this gen. However, be aware that physical Ice STAB is incredible right now and that Weavile is an extremely powerful user of STAB Tera. It's a mon that will require very aggressive play to get it in and start doing damage. It's not uncommon for me to Tera turn 1 when using it just to push for as much damage as possible. The best set is Choice Band with Tera Ice by a mile, though Tera Dark with Beat Up can also be considered as well as Swords Dance for cleaning purposes. Anyway Tera allows it to absolutely blow what some would call counters out of the water. Tinkaton and Talonflame which I would've argued to be common and reliable switch-ins to it in previous metas take far too much damage from Tera boosted Icicle Crash as Talonflame risks a straight up 1HKO and Tinkaton has to be at absolutely full health to be safe from a 2HKO. Other Ice resistances don't perform too well either. Bisharp gets punted by Low Kick, switching Slowking into a Choice Banded Dark move is just not it and Slowbro will often need to Tera to avoid getting easily 2HKO'd (and that's ignoring that if Slowbro isn't running Boots, Assurance will just kill it after Rocks if you want to consider that). There are a few other Ice resists that aren't too notable like the rather rare Tauroses that do actually deal with it rather well, but lack recovery as well as Armarouge which doesn't perform much better than Tinkaton provided Weavile uses its Ice move rather than its Dark one. Overall though, I'd say the Ice resists aren't really big issues for Weavile since it's usually able to bypass pretty much all of them. These resists would need to show up at all though, I've faced teams whose best Weavile check is Donphan because people are just completely unprepared for it. Weavile is mostly worried about something walling it with Tera, but if you get your opponent to use their Tera defensively, that can be a pretty good opportunity for you. It's definitely not without its flaws though, most notable of which is its Rock weakness which means it can get chipped quickly. It's also very frail and can be hard to get on the field, especially with its added Rock weakness, though its speed and super effective coverage means it can generally threaten out whatever's in front of it once it's in. It can also lead to some awkward teamcomps that are weak to certain Tera types. However, I'd say Weavile is a very underrated threat as most teams are not prepared for it at all and it can do a lot of damage when it hits the field safely.

I'll finish this off with some quicker ones that I'm a bit less passionate about, but still want to express my opinion about.

Kilowattrel B+ --> A-
Very very strong on hazard stack thanks to Competitive. The best Hurricane switchins (Tyranitar and Tinkaton) can just get Volt Switched on and are vulnerable to Spikes which can make it very difficult to switch into a properly supported Kilowattrel. It's also very good at abusing common trends like Voltturn cores using Slither Wing and Sandy Shocks as well as Defoggers using mono-flying as their attacking options.

Lycanroc-Dusk B+ --> A-
Extremely potent offensive threat overall, can wallbreaker very well with Swords Dance, Stone Edge and Close Combat and has Accelerock which can ease a lot of matchups against many fast Flying types as well as other offensive pokemon that are naturally fast or boost their Speed like Gengar or Haxorus. It's frail so it can be hard to use, but it breaks down some cores really well and can threaten a good amount of offensive mons, either with the intent to Swords Dance or to just KO them. I haven't played with Choice Band as much, but that also seems quite strong in theory.

Gardevoir B --> B+
If you weaken Tinkaton or your opponent isn't using one, this just gets to Tera Fairy and click Moonblast. We have quite bad Fairy resists and Tera Fairy Moonblast can threaten certain SpDef walls like Gastrodon enough to get them to waste 3 or 4 Recovers which can be massive. Trace is also very good and can make certain pokemon like Oricorio, Tatsugiri and Slowking feel like they can never make progress against it.

Oricorio-Pom-Pom A --> A-
I feel like it needs a bit too many dances to properly sweep and start doing actual damage. The meta is also not especially easy for it, with stuff like Quagsire, Tinkaton or Tyranitar around every corner to mess with it and make its setup difficult. Other matchups like Hippowdon, Gastrodon or Gardevoir can also be annoying to get through. I just think it's a bit more flawed than its current placement would imply.

Decided to edit in another one I just remembered because it's kinda weird
Iron Thorns B- --> C(?)
This is a case of a mon not being bad, but mostly being outclassed. In this case, just use Tyranitar. I feel like Iron Thorns is good at using the bad setup sets TTar has access to. Tera Grass beats some Ground types, notably Quagsire, but leaves you hilariously wide open to revenge-killing from Scarf Gengar, Slither Wing and others. Loaded Dice Pin Missile is nice in theory, but it's kind of weak without Tera and probably not worth your Tera. The good Dragon Dance Tyranitar sets utilize its bulk and Iron Thorns being unable to do that makes it almost not worth using in my opinion.

 

[Miguling]

Armarouge B+ --> A-
I love how Sun spam completely changed the way common Arma builds play. It's got amazing role compression both as a bulky attacker & setup sweeper thanks to having both ID & CM + Stored Power. Once it gets going, max HP/SpD Lefties build is borderline unkillable outside of haxxy crits. It almost completely dismantles sun cores due to Flash Fire, resisting Scovillain's other STAB and being hit neutrally at worst by Slither, with only Shocks really threatening it and that depends on the level of CMs it has up. Even TTar can't do much against it once set up and risks suffering a burn from Flamethrower spam which really threatens it. Scream Tail can't touch it and will run out of Encore PP trying to stall it out, and Quag, which would otherwise counter this kind of set, dies to a setup Stored Power due to its BP being unaffected by Unaware. Due to other common setup sweepers being DDancers, it can level the playing field by IDing ad nauseam in return so it turns what would be a losing matchup into a check at worst and a win at best.

I think Arma's relevancy is hard-carried by sun being the fun toy of the current month, but even when that archetype dies it'll probably still find relevance in its role.

Also a nod to my buddies over pia:

(esta edit: fixed formatting to be visible on dark mode)

 

[pokemonisfun]

Armarouge B+ --> A-
I love how Sun spam completely changed the way common Arma builds play. It's got amazing role compression both as a bulky attacker & setup sweeper thanks to having both ID & CM + Stored Power. Once it gets going, max HP/SpD Lefties build is borderline unkillable outside of haxxy crits. It almost completely dismantles sun cores due to Flash Fire, resisting Scovillain's other STAB and being hit neutrally at worst by Slither, with only Shocks really threatening it and that depends on the level of CMs it has up. Even TTar can't do much against it once set up and risks suffering a burn from Flamethrower spam which really threatens it. Scream Tail can't touch it and will run out of Encore PP trying to stall it out, and Quag, which would otherwise counter this kind of set, dies to a setup Stored Power due to its BP being unaffected by Unaware. Due to other common setup sweepers being DDancers, it can level the playing field by IDing ad nauseam in return so it turns what would be a losing matchup into a check at worst and a win at best.

I think Arma's relevancy is hard-carried by sun being the fun toy of the current month, but even when that archetype dies it'll probably still find relevance in its role.

Also a nod to my buddies over pia:
View attachment 494640

(esta edit: fixed formatting to be visible on dark mode)

I don't like making old gen comparisons usually because not many people get them, but what the heck, this is illustrative - I really think Armarogue is similar to Victini in BW and Chandelure in SM - amazingly powerful and borderline impossible to switch into. Now Chandelure actually sort of had switch ins, at least Nihilego, but Victini basically you always had to guess the set or revenge kill.

Armarogue right now has 0 switch ins if you consider all of its sets (although I am very partial to the set you mentioned). Tyranitar gets nuked by Focus Blast (and chunked by Energy Ball), none of our waters can take Psychic STAB + Energy Ball, Blissey gets Psyshocked or Stored Powered on, Scream Tail takes a ton from Fire STAB and can't hurt you much. Ironically Lavern sort of invented a defensive Armarogue set which checks most Aramrogue, but obviously this isn't the meta still.

Victini did a similar thing - between V-create/Focus Blast/Bolt Strike/Grass Knot/Psychic and a few other moves, it had no great switch in too.

So why the comparison?

Weak Armor.

In an instant, Armarogue could become faster than Victini ever wanted and just go bonkers. There are a lot of great ways to use this, for example, many Bramble will fear spinning vs you since it could give game breaking speed. Endure + Weakness Policy is a tactic, especially in Psychic Terrain, to abuse the extra boosts and Armarogues typing. Talonflame and other weak physical moves suddenly go from free chip to extremely risky.

I'm not saying Armarogue is better or as good as Victini, I'm just saying that when you compare the two and realize how good Weak Armor can be, you get an easy mental picture - insanely difficult to switch into + faster than most scarfers if your opponent makes a mistake or if you can find a way to abuse your ability.

Absolutely love Armarogue, think it's great, even outside of the Sun/Iron Defense sets you mention.

 

[Lavern]

While we're on the topic of my inventions, I want nominate one of them to be ranked higher.

@
Cloyster @ Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Skill Link
Tera Type: Ice
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Protect

Nominating Cloyster for B+. This set is just absolutely broken behind screens, even more so than Polteageist, in my opinion. I already made a post in the creative and underrated sets thread, where I explain this in greater detail, so to keep it short, a resisited tera ice Icicle Spear is stronger than a neutral Rock Blast, so there is literally no reason to use Rock Blast on this, unless you're scared of Torkoal, or Coalossal. This is slower than Tinkaton, which means that Tinkaton can't encore it into Shell Smash. It also won't be able to Encore it into Icicle Spear, because guess what, +2 tera Icicle Spear OHKOs Tinkaton. Grafaiai won't be able to Encore this either, because 0 HP / 0 Def Graf just dies to a +2 tera Ice Shard. And the 248 HP variants have a 50% chance to get OHKOd after rocks. Dropping the speed for Tinkaton doesn't even hurt Cloyster, because anything faster than it at +2, aside from Scarf Indeedee, just dies to tera Ice Shard, unless they tera steel. Protect also means that Slither Wing, and Lokix can't revengekill it with First Impression. I recommend reading my post on the creative and underrated sets thread, as that one includes multiple calcs and replays, which showcase just how broken this thing is. I also highly recommend trying this set out yourself, cause it is just stupid. It also works outside of screens, if you have Slowking support, which is what I used to get reqs for the hands suspect.

 

[Miguling]

Other nom I've been thinking about recently:

B+ --> B
Maushold suffers from the same problems it did back in OU after a while - the meta more or less stabilized and now everyone knows the mice. Pop. Bomb may be explosively strong but the problems are that it only has one moveset ever, is horribly weak to Knock and Helms, gets completely walled by ghosts if it doesn't carry Bite, and has negative defensive presence. Tidy Up may be a broken-ass move but Maushold itself doesn't get a lot of opportunities to use it and even with one setup it's still liable to getting walled by TTar and other defensive bulwarks. It almost feels UU Maus has it even worse than OU Maus because a lot of the common bulky mons are also resists to the mice, and Gengar can turn it into a sitting duck if it misses the Bite KO and Cursed Body disables it. As much as I'm usually a staunch lover of the micey ones the meta just isn't friendly to it right now.

 

[seiuqq]

So, just gonna say, MY BOY BRUTE BONNET DESERVES BETTER.

It's won me a lot of different games, using it on stall, sun, etc. It's GREAT, seriously deserving of atleast B-. C is way too harsh on it & it's appreciating extra usage now that Iron Hands is banned

EDIT: Maus can start running bullet seed too (or thats just me, I dont have trouble against ttar, tera grass is cool

 

[Monky25]

With the new tier changes today, the Pokemon that rose, being Armarouge and Torkoal, have been removed from the VR, alongside the banned Iron Hands that I put off on removing. Additionally, with Barraskewda and Floatzel both dropping to RU and no longer in the tier, the D rank has been removed since there is no Pokemon to put in there for now. Furthermore, the new Pokemon that dropped, being Grimmsnarl and Scizor, have been added to the "new" section of the VR, where they will reside until a formal update happens sometime in the coming weeks that puts them in new rankings. Lastly, since their viability depended on Torkoal and Drought's presence in the tier and manual sun is not a viable archetype considering regular sun wasn't even that good, Scovillain and Charizard will be removed from the VR.

Remember to be cautious with your nominations as we experienced some impactful drops. Take some time and play around with the new Pokemon before immediately nominating them into a certain rank. Enjoy the new meta!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

With the new tier changes today, the Pokemon that rose, being Armarouge and Torkoal, have been removed from the VR, alongside the banned Iron Hands that I put off on removing. Additionally, with Barraskewda and Floatzel both dropping to RU and no longer in the tier, the D rank has been removed since there is no Pokemon to put in there for now. Furthermore, the new Pokemon that dropped, being Grimmsnarl and Scizor, have been added to the "new" section of the VR, where they will reside until a formal update happens sometime in the coming weeks that puts them in new rankings. Lastly, since their viability depended on Torkoal and Drought's presence in the tier and manual sun is not a viable archetype considering regular sun wasn't even that good, Scovillain and Charizard will be removed from the VR.

Remember to be cautious with your nominations as we experienced some impactful drops. Take some time and play around with the new Pokemon before immediately nominating them into a certain rank. Enjoy the new meta!

What about brute bonnet? wasnt it sole set growth + 3 attacks that was utilized with sun. I find with the torkoal rise it should be removed... like I find it hard to justify on a team at all esp with that weakness and slow speed

 

[Sneakyplanner]

What about brute bonnet? wasnt it sole set growth + 3 attacks that was utilized with sun. I find with the torkoal rise it should be removed... like I find it hard to justify on a team at all esp with that weakness and slow speed

Brute Bonnet still has some use outside of sun (about as much as it did under it). It's not completely useless, just outclassed at pretty much everything it wants to do, which is basically the textbook definition of a C tier mon. And since it's still technically UU by usage I feel there is at least some obligation to keep it in the VRs.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Brute Bonnet still has some use outside of sun (about as much as it did under it). It's not completely useless, just outclassed at pretty much everything it wants to do, which is basically the textbook definition of a C tier mon. And since it's still technically UU by usage I feel there is at least some obligation to keep it in the VRs.

usage =/= viability, barra and floatzel were D tier

 

[pomfpomfpluff]

I have a couple of noms I'd like to share given that there are a couple of mons that I think are either being overrated or underrated in the current VR. Generally speaking I haven't played the post shifts UU format a lot so most of these opinions will be coming from pre drops with a couple of exceptions I'll get into a bit later.

Oricorio-Pom-Pom A ---> A-
If you'd have asked me what my thoughts about Oricorio in general were like a month ago I'd put both formes in B tier max. Since then I've grown to love using both Pom-Pom and Sensu, which is why I now agree with the notion that both are very impactful mons within the current metagame. However Pom-Pom is definitely being a bit overrated here, like it's good but it's not as metagame definining as mons like Slither Wing for an example and I'd argue that it has an overall lower metagame impact than some mons in A-. Between being walled by common metagame staples like Tyranitar and Tinkaton, aswell as being extremely Tera Reliant in order to get a sweep off I think that "good but inconsistent" is a good description of Pom-Pom, hence the ranking.

Oricorio-Sensu: B ---> B+
Conversely I've been very high on Sensu as of late mainly due to how it's an extremely consistent Spin Blocker for hazard stacking teams. It's by far the tankiest Ghost in the tier that also acts as a wincon lategame, serving as some insane role compression while also filling it's primary purpose. This is especially important on Hyper Offense which both formes naturally fit on. In general I've always thought that the viability difference between the two formes was a lot smaller than most people have told me, but even just as a standalone mon I'd definitely say that Sensu is more splashable and flexible than stuff like Haxorus, Maushold and Donphan, all of which currently reside in the B+ tier.

Also as a sidenote: My opinion on these two will probably change drastically based on how big of a meta impact Scizor will have. It's looking like an extremely strong mon atm but I don't wanna make a preemptive judgment.


Grafaiai: A- ---> A
Grafaiai is a pretty simple pokemon, so long as Hyper Offense is good Grafaiai will be good. Hyper Offense just recieved two extremely strong tools in Grimmsnarl and Scizor, therefore Hyper Offense will become more prevelant as a result and therefore Grafaiai will become even better. Something that also helps out a bit is that Armarouge leaving has made Psychic Terrain a lot less common, which means that Grafaiai will become even more consistent at fulfilling this role. Grafaiai was genuinely a top 10 mon imo even before these shifts thanks to how it turns Gengar into offensive momentum, but these changes make it even better.

Altaria: C ---> C+
It's no secret that I genuinely hate Altaria, but it got robbed in the VR by being ranked bellow genuine junk mons that nobody uses like Sylveon, Florges and Toedscruel. A case for Altaria to the higher tiers could probably be made, but I genuinely think that it's worse than Talonflame on 90% of teams and only really has a niche on Balance and Stall at the moment, which is not that bad of a niche to have given that it shines especially brightly on those team styles. While it doesn't necessarily hard counter anything bar Quagsire (which is very valuable might I add), it can take a hit from pretty much anything and threaten to Burn something. Defog and a surprisingly strong Flying STAB are also extremely important tools in the current metagame.


Alright now for the main junk mon that I genuinely think has no place on your average UU team.

Brute Bonnet: C ---> D/UR
When are we going to stop pretending like this thing is even remotely viable? It was a fun meme on Sun teams at best last month, but it was still awful even there, especially in comparison to other breakers who effortlessly shatter opposition when given proper play and team support (seriously watch the one UUPL game Brute got used in to see just how useless it can be even when everything goes it's way). Now that Sun isn't here anymore Brute Bonnet genuinely has no place in the tier and I think that the VR should reflect that.

 

[scrimzn]

I recently had a discussion with some friends on PIA about the Rapid spinners in UU, and was surprised to find out that Coalossal, one of my favorite spinners, is not on the VR. This compelled me to share my opinion on my favorite spinners of UU.

To provide more context before discussing Coalossal, I want to emphasize the importance of matching up well against a certain Pokémon, before any spinner can be considered effective in this tier, in my opinion. This Pokémon being:



Brambleghast @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Ball
- Spikes
- Strength Sap

Brambleghast is an excellent choice for supporting entry hazard-stacking builds, thanks to its unique movepool and typing. It can spin, spinblock, and set its own hazards simultaneously. It does unfortunately not really beat any opposing hazard setters if it doesn't run Grass-Type STAB.

Let's take a look at the sample set I provided. Rapid Spin is necessary for any spinner, so no further explanation is needed. Shadow Ball discourages opposing Ghost-types from switching in and blocking Brambleghast's spin, particularly opposing Brambleghast. Spikes are always useful for any hazard stacking team. Lastly, Strength Sap provides much-needed recovery because Brambleghast lacks bulk and needs as much health as possible to switch into opposing threats reliably. The Speed investment allows Brambleghast to outspeed adamant Choice Band Tyranitar at base and non-Choice Scarf Sandy Shocks at +1. The remaining EVs are used to give it as much physical bulk as possible, allowing it to survive a 252+ Knock Off from Donphan. Tera Ghost gives Brambleghast the ability to OHKO opposing Ghost-Types with Shadow Ball and maintain its spinblocking properties.

As for alternatives, Power Whip is often used to threaten common Stealth Rockers like Quagsire, but this comes at the cost of either losing Shadow Ball or Spikes, causing you to either not threaten opposing spinblockers anymore or losing the ability to set hazards yourself. Shadow Sneak is also often used for priority moves, allowing Brambleghast to finish off opposing Ghost-Types without having to use Tera, since Shadow Ball is not enough to OHKO them from full HP. Tera Normal deserves a mention for trolling opposing Gengar, as it makes Brambleghast immune to Shadow Ball and enables it to KO Gengar with Shadow Ball. Colbur Berry can be used instead of Heavy-Duty Boots to reliably survive Tera Dark Knock Off or Knock Off into Ice Shard from Donphan.



GOATlossal (Coalossal) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Overheat
- Power Gem
- Stealth Rock

Now we can start talking about Coalossal. Coalossal has nice role compression on more offensive oriented teams with it being able to both reliably spin against Brambleghast and set up Stealth Rocks itself. It does lose the 1v1 against most opposing Hazard setters though (Tinkaton and Bramble being notable exceptions). Flame Body is a useful ability for Coalossal, allowing it to fish for burns against Lokix, Maushold and Tinkaton. However, it's risky against Slither Wing, as it typically runs Fighting STAB.

As for the sample set I provided. Rapid Spin is again necessary. Overheat allows you to always OHKO max HP Brambleghast from full with only a small EV investment. Power Gem is used for another STAB move forcing common Defoggers like Talonflame and Altaria to switch out allowing Coalossal to safely set up Stealth Rocks. The given Speed Investment allow Coalossal to outspeed Blissey at +1, while the remaining EVs are distributed to maximize its overall bulk. Tera Ghost is useful to spinblock, eat up the Close Combats it likes to receive from Slither Wing and provide another emergency tool against Maushold and Lucario.

As for alternatives; Flamethrower can be used instead of Overheat to have a more reliable STAB move that doesn't drop your Special Attack. This does however forfeit the ability to OHKO Brambleghast, but in exchange allows you to 4HKO 252 HP / 164+ SpD Tinkaton. Spikes can also be run over Stealth Rocks if your team prefers.



Donphan @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

Donphan is a strong offensive Rapid Spinner that is very annoying to switch into because of Knock Off and has neutral matchups against most hazard setters. The ability Sturdy, combined with Ice Shard, also allows it to effectively emergency revenge kill a lot of threats. Its main downsides are its low speed and its unreliability in spinning against Brambleghast.

Moving on to the set, Rapid Spin is once again mandatory. Donphan's Knock Off move makes it very troublesome for opponents to switch in, while also allowing it to deal with Brambleghasts that aren't running Colbur Berry. By predicting the switch into Brambleghast and using Knock Off followed by Ice Shard, Donphan has Hurricane odds of KOing the opposing Brambleghast, or alternatively, you can use Tera Dark for a 75% chance of OHKOing and a guaranteed KO after Ice Shard. Earthquake is the last move, providing Donphan with a strong STAB option that hits common Stealth Rockers such as Tinkaton and Gastrodon hard. With the given EV spread, Donphan outspeeds Blissey at base and 0 Spe Tinkaton at +1. The remaining EVs are invested in general bulk.

As for alternatives. PLEASE DON'T RUN STEALTH ROCK. USE HIPPOWDON!!!
Also, as usual, Tera Ghost is useful, as on most Pokémons.



Those are the only spinners I have a lot of experience with in this thier. I cannot speak confidently about Tsareena, Toedscruel, Tatsugiri, and Forretress as I have only used them sparingly. Perhaps someone else can provide more insight on them and explain why Forretress is so ass. With that said, I would like to offer my nomination as my closing statement.

Coalossal UR ---> B-
This is the Pokémon that originally prompted me to write this post. Now that you know what it can theoretically do I'd like to nominate it to be placed in the B- tier where I think it rightfully belongs.

As for Donphan and Brambleghast I do think they are already in the tier that they should be in so I won't do any nominations here.

TL;DR

Use the GOAT

 

[Twilight]

to A
I think Hippowdon is just too good of a glue mon to be sitting in A-. It can blanket-check a good portion of the meta such as Pawmot, Gengar, Sandy, Tyranitar, etc. depending on how you choose to EV it. It is great at taking advantage of tera defensively to help ease these matchups further or improve otherwise poor ones. E.g. Tera Rock can boost its SpD further and with Sand make it capable of switching into Special Salamence, Noivern, and Gengar better. Tera Fairy lets you better handle the Dragons + Slither lacking recovery. Water is also a good neutral typing to opt for. While Hippo is pretty one-dimensional when it comes to set flexibility it doesn't really need much else to be effective.

to B+/A-
Jumping straight to A- might be a stretch but I think B+ should be considered at least. Gardevoir is basically the only offensive Fairy in the tier and clicking Moonblast with it is free. Tinkaton is probably the easiest Pokemon in this tier to wear down with the amount of stuff it attempts to blanket-check and relying on Leftovers. It is not difficult to pair Gardevoir with something that either Knocks or just chips it into range. Scizor did drop but not much changes here besides being forced out by Bullet Punch. Losing Roost means Scizor can't reliably keep switching into Moonblast anyway + it has to fear Mystical Fire if running it.

to A-/A
Haxorus click DD, Haxorus drop something. The god at dismantling bulkier cores and with Quagsire being one of our best defensive Ground-types having a setup mon that just ignores Unaware is huge for many playstyles to not be considered for the A ranks imo.

to A-
Unless you have Hippo switching into Lycan is a pain. Banded and AoA sets do the same thing they've always done and spam Tough Claw-boosted attacks to destroy bulky cores while having the ability to revenge faster stuff with Accel. Scizor does threaten it out with BP but I don't find Scizor impactful enough to deter a rise here.

Flying-type Propaganda

to B+
Hawlucha really isn't that bad to be so low imo. It is definitely not the scariest threat within the tier but it has a STAB combo nothing wants to pivot into and Taunt shuts down Quagsire beating you out and Hippo phasing. It deserves a bit more respect at least :(

to A
I don't think it is as good as Mence but the Speed tier is still amazing for many teams that need the Speed control. Decent flexibility with pivot and Specs sets. Just like Special Mence it can be a real pain to switch into with Dragon + Fire covering most stuff then U-turn getting it out of those bad matchups. Infil is also great into screens and the rare occasional Sub Gengar.

to A
Perhaps it is only me but I like Jugulis a lot and always find it difficult to deal with when against it. I use a lot of the Knock Pivot set and that does a good job of wearing down its main checks in Tink and Tyranitar. Knock Jug + Gengar is a fantastic core for those who haven't tried it. Specs and Booster Energy sets run Earth Power anyways which melt Tink on the switch and sizeably chunk Tyranitar depending on the set. The Speed tier puts it above a good chunk of key mons like Pawmot and Sandy making it difficult to force out sometimes. Slower than Gengar will forever be ass for it but oh well.

to A
Banded Brave Bird just claims at least one or two mons a game from experience. The flying resists in this tier are lacking and none want to switch into Raptor. Banded Quick Attack is also great to give it a revenge-killing tool as Double-Edge is excessive. Scarf is still good but I don't think that is the main set that makes me want to suggest a rise for Raptor.

There is probably an S rank but I don't really know, nothing feels blatantly better than everything else to me.

Some of the A to B+ stuff could probably be shifted a bit more that I didn't already share my opinion on. Didn't really give much thought to the lower stuff, you could probably unrank a few things. I don't think Scizor and Grimm shake up things that much from experience. Offensive SD sets are cool on HO with Trailblaze/Tera Blast/QA and Banded is strong. I've used 3 Attacks +1 and while it is decent, no Roost makes it so much worse especially defensively. Grimm is another screen setter. Taunt shuts down Defog/hazards/Quag and Parting can be cool to get your breakers in. It has its merits but so do the other screen setters being used before it (Scream compressing rocks and Espeon denying hazards by existing). Sciz is probs still in the A ranks somewhere and idk about Grimm.

 

[KM]

Brute Bonnet: C ---> D/UR
When are we going to stop pretending like this thing is even remotely viable? It was a fun meme on Sun teams at best last month, but it was still awful even there, especially in comparison to other breakers who effortlessly shatter opposition when given proper play and team support (seriously watch the one UUPL game Brute got used in to see just how useless it can be even when everything goes it's way). Now that Sun isn't here anymore Brute Bonnet genuinely has no place in the tier and I think that the VR should reflect that.

i don't think sun ever was the primary best set for bonnet, and i don't think torkoal leaving the tier affects its viability. if anything, it's insanely under-ranked at C and should easily be in B/B+. loaded dice w/ bseed / spore / dark stab / filler requires some intentional building but is a very consistent and powerful threat and I recommend trying it out!

 

[Lily]

some short noms:

A -> A-

think this guy's awkward af to build good teams with. slowking is weirdly passive, a lot of mons take advantage of you to a frustrating and embarrassing extent (Tyranitar, Tinkaton, Wo-Chien, Scream Tail, Iron Jugulis, etc) and when building with it you can't even use it as a Fighting resist because of how useless it is vs Slither Wing. When I use Slowking I find it hard to pick something it's actually good at; its best use case for me is switching into mons that don't actually break but rather frustrate, like Talonflame and Quagsire, since it doesn't care too much about being statused relative to other things in the tier. it doesn't resist hits from a lot of the special attackers it wants to check (salamence, tatsugiri) while being straight up weak to hits from lots of others (kilowatt, gengar, sandy) and is overall just setup fodder for too much dangerous stuff. I would honestly go lower but its usage is quite high and maybe there's something others see in it that I don't.

A- -> A+

Grafaiai is ridiculously good, it's so much better than its ranking would suggest and it's better than everything in A rank as well. Its UUPL performance so far has been stellar and proves just how strong and frustrating it is; there are so few mons in this tier that it can't mess with in some way, and its matchup against offense is invaluable where it can almost solo if played well. Some example games of Grafaiai dominating are TJ vs talah and ProDigeZz vs Star, where it is a key playmaker in both games. I personally think it's on the lower end of A+ but it feels about right with mons like Talonflame and Salamence to me. Very very strong rn.

A -> A-

It's still really good but people have figured out how to play around it a bit better, generally doesn't like uptick in Quagsire usage, and the metagame just doesn't feature as many Pokemon that it'd normally invalidate (e.g. Slither Wing) rn. Sweeping potential is still immense though, A- just feels better for it.

A- -> A

Hippo's just good, not much more to it. Does Hippo stuff. Walls a lot of good mons like Pawmot, Gengar, and Grafaiai. Still has issues like big competition from Quag/Gastro but is a good mon. Rock move > Whirlwind, though, imo. Gastro is probably underranked at A- realistically even tho I don't like using it too much; it's still got major issues in that using it as a team's Ground leaves you mega weak to Tyranitar, Pawmot and to an extent Grafaiai, but it's still a really solid option and the SpDef advantage it has over Quagsire is certainly noteworthy.

A- -> A

I think Noiv was initially ranked for its Specs set which kinda sucks at this point bc Boomburst just isn't an instapick button the way it used to be now that people have started using lots of Tinkaton and Tyranitar. Pivot on the other hand is awesome, having a great offensive check to stuff like Slither Wing, Gengar, Salamence, Pawmot, Maushold and even Scizor is great. The competition with Salamence - a generally better Pokemon - is certainly there, but Speed is definitely enough to set it apart. Also a weirdly useful beneficiary of defensive Tera; Steel or Fairy Tera can really let this thing solo certain matchups in ways you wouldn't expect. Very versatile and good def deserves a bump!

B+ -> A-

I really like Tatsu. I explained why I think it's very good in this post, so if you wanna know, read that!

B -> B+

Both Tauros forms are really solid mons, I think they deserve a bump in the rankings. Fire is extremely solid vs mons like Scizor and Tsareena while abusing the ever-present Tinkaton to get onto the field and click buttons, while Water is a great way to check Tyranitar and still checks stuff like Scizor and Bisharp, importantly being Rocks neutral so it can keep munching the apple all game long and be annoying. I think they are both very good options, they have issues with stuff like Slowking but having access to lures like Trailblaze for Quagsire or Stone Edge for Talonflame is so handy.

B -> B+

Lokix kinda dictates what mons are good on HO and what aren't; you essentially require multiple Protect mons or multiple 4X First Impression resists, which is... pretty difficult to do, actually. The obligatory Mimikyu is really good and is a great way to get that first quad resist but after that it's tough, essentially limited to SD Talonflame, QD Oricorio-Sensu, and maybe like Bulk Up Tauros-F. Also just a solid pivot, Tinted Lens U-turn is obviously gonna sting basically anything. Tera Fight is also underexplored; Axe Kick straight up drops Talonflame from full HP and resisting SR makes your U-turn very scary.

B- -> C/UR

No more armour man makes Indeedee sad :( don't think psyterrain is very good anymore but it can maybe stay C just bc teapot is still good there

Agree w/ Twi's Garde/Haxorus/Lycanroc nominations as well, don't really think Hawlucha or Staraptor deserve a rise tho. Unsure on Jugulis but leaning towards yes maybe?

ty for reading

 

[gigi44t44]

some short noms:

A -> A-

think this guy's awkward af to build good teams with. slowking is weirdly passive, a lot of mons take advantage of you to a frustrating and embarrassing extent (Tyranitar, Tinkaton, Wo-Chien, Scream Tail, Iron Jugulis, etc) and when building with it you can't even use it as a Fighting resist because of how useless it is vs Slither Wing. When I use Slowking I find it hard to pick something it's actually good at; its best use case for me is switching into mons that don't actually break but rather frustrate, like Talonflame and Quagsire, since it doesn't care too much about being statused relative to other things in the tier. it doesn't resist hits from a lot of the special attackers it wants to check (salamence, tatsugiri) while being straight up weak to hits from lots of others (kilowatt, gengar, sandy) and is overall just setup fodder for too much dangerous stuff. I would honestly go lower but its usage is quite high and maybe there's something others see in it that I don't.

A- -> A+

Grafaiai is ridiculously good, it's so much better than its ranking would suggest and it's better than everything in A rank as well. Its UUPL performance so far has been stellar and proves just how strong and frustrating it is; there are so few mons in this tier that it can't mess with in some way, and its matchup against offense is invaluable where it can almost solo if played well. Some example games of Grafaiai dominating are TJ vs talah and ProDigeZz vs Star, where it is a key playmaker in both games. I personally think it's on the lower end of A+ but it feels about right with mons like Talonflame and Salamence to me. Very very strong rn.

A -> A-

It's still really good but people have figured out how to play around it a bit better, generally doesn't like uptick in Quagsire usage, and the metagame just doesn't feature as many Pokemon that it'd normally invalidate (e.g. Slither Wing) rn. Sweeping potential is still immense though, A- just feels better for it.

A- -> A

Hippo's just good, not much more to it. Does Hippo stuff. Walls a lot of good mons like Pawmot, Gengar, and Grafaiai. Still has issues like big competition from Quag/Gastro but is a good mon. Rock move > Whirlwind, though, imo. Gastro is probably underranked at A- realistically even tho I don't like using it too much; it's still got major issues in that using it as a team's Ground leaves you mega weak to Tyranitar, Pawmot and to an extent Grafaiai, but it's still a really solid option and the SpDef advantage it has over Quagsire is certainly noteworthy.

A- -> A

I think Noiv was initially ranked for its Specs set which kinda sucks at this point bc Boomburst just isn't an instapick button the way it used to be now that people have started using lots of Tinkaton and Tyranitar. Pivot on the other hand is awesome, having a great offensive check to stuff like Slither Wing, Gengar, Salamence, Pawmot, Maushold and even Scizor is great. The competition with Salamence - a generally better Pokemon - is certainly there, but Speed is definitely enough to set it apart. Also a weirdly useful beneficiary of defensive Tera; Steel or Fairy Tera can really let this thing solo certain matchups in ways you wouldn't expect. Very versatile and good def deserves a bump!

B+ -> A-

I really like Tatsu. I explained why I think it's very good in this post, so if you wanna know, read that!

B -> B+

Both Tauros forms are really solid mons, I think they deserve a bump in the rankings. Fire is extremely solid vs mons like Scizor and Tsareena while abusing the ever-present Tinkaton to get onto the field and click buttons, while Water is a great way to check Tyranitar and still checks stuff like Scizor and Bisharp, importantly being Rocks neutral so it can keep munching the apple all game long and be annoying. I think they are both very good options, they have issues with stuff like Slowking but having access to lures like Trailblaze for Quagsire or Stone Edge for Talonflame is so handy.

B -> B+

Lokix kinda dictates what mons are good on HO and what aren't; you essentially require multiple Protect mons or multiple 4X First Impression resists, which is... pretty difficult to do, actually. The obligatory Mimikyu is really good and is a great way to get that first quad resist but after that it's tough, essentially limited to SD Talonflame, QD Oricorio-Sensu, and maybe like Bulk Up Tauros-F. Also just a solid pivot, Tinted Lens U-turn is obviously gonna sting basically anything. Tera Fight is also underexplored; Axe Kick straight up drops Talonflame from full HP and resisting SR makes your U-turn very scary.

B- -> C/UR

No more armour man makes Indeedee sad :( don't think psyterrain is very good anymore but it can maybe stay C just bc teapot is still good there

Agree w/ Twi's Garde/Haxorus/Lycanroc nominations as well, don't really think Hawlucha or Staraptor deserve a rise tho. Unsure on Jugulis but leaning towards yes maybe?

ty for reading

everyone know that the best set for slowking
.
regenerator @ assault vest
252hp 4def 252 spdef calm nature
future sight
surf
flamethrower
icebeam/grassknot/focusblast

you sponge pretty much any special attack then future sight when the opp switches out acting as a special tank that progresses through future sight and with 100spatk it can hit pretty hard

 

[Monky25]

Hello UU community members, Viability Rankings Enthusiasts, and all others who are viewing this thread, I have an important announcement to make. The UU VR team will be conducting its very first update of the generation now that the metagame has settled a bit with neither drop being really impactful. I am giving a rough 2.5 days notice of this to get in any nominations you would like to see us vote on. The thread will close and be locked around 6:00 PM GMT-8 on Tuesday as a rough deadline, so be sure to get posting if you’ve got changes you want us to make. I will be making a post myself to share my own thoughts on the changes I would like to see happen as well later on. Happy posting!