Peliper is back and I think floatzel should be like A or A- barrascewda (prob spelled that wrong) is like B+
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Scarlet and Violet UU Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Monky25
- Start date
- Status
nah dawg-> C or UR
It really struggles, sciz, tink, gengar, knock from wo chien screwing it over making it have to burn synthesis a lot more, being awfully passive compared to smth like scream tail which is a much better wish passer, and it cannot really setup CM well esp with grafaiai, gengar, quagsire, scizor, and sludge bomb gastrodon all being a thorn for it to deal with, it cant exactly pressure them either. Your fairy slot is better being used by tinkaton, gardevoir, or scream tail.
C is because I believe CM is just super super niche and it can sometimes sweep games something which all of 3 fairies cannot do, but its stupid passive and hard to get going and at that point use a better setup sweeper such as pom pom, SD scizor, Sub dd tar, all of which are better win cons and have an easier time to get going and do not need so many boosts. UR is because if CM isnt used and just as a wish passer, then why use it in the first place
if anything I would argue Florges deserves to be raised, idk how much higher but it has a very real niche/unique skill set in this tier.
First of all, there are no good sturdy fairy resists except tink, and tink can only do so much and can only have usage so high. Scizor doesn’t have roost anymore, Gengar is paper, grafaiai is a pussy bitch, etc.
Regardless of that though, I think the most interesting things about it is it’s defensively utility in combination w that, bc I am not the typa guy to have a boner for momentum sucking rat mons, but I am a fan of florges. It’s a really strong blanket check to a solid number of things, in particular it’s one of the best sandy checks the tier has to offer and I think that’s valuable enough in itself.
Since I didn’t end up using the team I was going to use with this in uupl, I will share this set I cooked up a few weeks ago. I do not necessarily think it is the correct set choice on florges 100%, but I think this capitalizes on the tier it is specifically in extremely well (lack of sturdy fairy resists, water grounds, broken sandy, jug, frail posions, etc)
Florges @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flower Veil
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 40 SpA / 176 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Synthesis
Ability: Flower Veil
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Def / 40 SpA / 176 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Synthesis
This makes it a relevant “threat” against a lot of real teams in this tier, I like this set on spikes leaning more on the BO side of things, it has good trading potential and it’s spdef stat is so stupidly high that it is just hard answer a lot of the strong special attackers in the tier. You need it paired with something else to form some sort of stable backbone, and I don’t think it’s the most splashable thing of all time, but I think it provides real things that teams will need when building that other options don’t really have. I would take this over scream tail 100/100 times on the archetypes you probably should be running smth like this on, and gardevoir does completely different things than florg.
Tinkaton I think is the biggest villain to florg in this tier, both in building and in practice against it. Tink is the sturdiest fairy resist that comes in the free-est whenever florg is in, and also it is it’s direct competition in the builder. Tink is a steel type w rocks, and role compression is more than valuable enough to make anyone with a brain pick tinkaton early in a building process. Florges does do things tinkaton doesnt though, obviously, it has reliable recovery, while tink does answer juggy, florg does it infinitely better… also including mence, noiv ig, etc. And instead of being sandy fodder, it is one of the best sandy answers in the tier.
This post isn’t entirely about the set above, I also just think the notion to drop florges is super wrong and the points don’t really add up, comparing florg to smth as broad as “set up sweepers” which includes the likes of scizor and tyranitar. Florges is only ever being put onto teams because of it’s utility, and it’s utility is unique to the fairy comparisons of Gardevoir and Tinkaton. I would also argue that Grafaiai and Gengar barely bother Florges as it’s not like they’re just chewing moon blasts all day long for free and then ur sitting there with 5 ghost types that just die to whatever they click so you have to sack smth.
Anyways I was just scrolling and saw that and felt strongly abt florg as a mon so wanted to ramble I apologize.
Basically, this mon isn’t incredible but is definitely viable enough to be here, and imo viable enough to be above C
NEW:
→B+
Decent hazard remover. Spirit Shackle is so good (prevent double switch trap hazard setter etc) and winnable most matchups vs setters unless they tera. We have Brambleghast as a same type remover but this mon has much better stats←important!! and defog is reliable than rapid spin so we can use Decidueye if u want to remove your hazards certainly. Talonflame? Different typing, thats all.
Rise or Drops:
→S-
Most powerful pokemons in this meta. I think these two are worthy to be S- before shift but Pelipper makes them better. Mence resists water and hits threats so hard. Ttar changes weather and checks Genger Salamence etc and its tremendous BST enables it very difficult to check.
→A/A-
Do I need to explain?
→A-
One of the best choice specs users in this meta. Nothing to say about Tinkaton trapping but I refer to ANALYTIC here.
Most pokemon players are thinking no magnet pull Magnezone is useless. However, I can say current Magnezone is a huge threat by itself.
There are some replays how analytic works:
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. I'm the 1-4 Adam - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
I could hit over 50% to the opposing Magnezone thanks to Analytic. My opponent predicted correctly and stopped my mag but it is obvious that magnezone was a very huge threat for this team.
[Gen 9] UU replay: pichus
vs. udongirl - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sandy Shocks: 159-188 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Like the above replay he was scared my magnezone and analytic made his play very difficult.
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. Lily - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
I didnt need analytic here but magnezone did excellent works.
→B-
Decidueye is better in most cases. Use Brambleghast if u want to keep your hazards.
Noms:
→B
Spinner which is good vs hippo and scares tink with powerful body press. Fighting tera improves its bad typing and enable it to check some physical attackers like ttar, and its natural typing still checks some mons like Gyarados. Its bad spdef and typing still cause some problems but it has niches and better than Tsareena, at least.
→B
Grassy terrain leaf storm OHKOes Bramblaghast and Gengar from 1/2. Arboliva also has some good coverage (earth power pollen puff dazzling gleam etc) so it can punish some checks like Talonflame Wo-chien and Tinkaton(not OHKO but hard enough). I have a replay of this pokemon:
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. Moutemoute - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Leaf storm is resisted by Talonflame and Wo-chien but Arboliva beated these two despite specs is knocked.
Decent hazard remover. Spirit Shackle is so good (prevent double switch trap hazard setter etc) and winnable most matchups vs setters unless they tera. We have Brambleghast as a same type remover but this mon has much better stats←important!! and defog is reliable than rapid spin so we can use Decidueye if u want to remove your hazards certainly. Talonflame? Different typing, thats all.
Rise or Drops:
Most powerful pokemons in this meta. I think these two are worthy to be S- before shift but Pelipper makes them better. Mence resists water and hits threats so hard. Ttar changes weather and checks Genger Salamence etc and its tremendous BST enables it very difficult to check.
Do I need to explain?
One of the best choice specs users in this meta. Nothing to say about Tinkaton trapping but I refer to ANALYTIC here.
Most pokemon players are thinking no magnet pull Magnezone is useless. However, I can say current Magnezone is a huge threat by itself.
There are some replays how analytic works:
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. I'm the 1-4 Adam - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
I could hit over 50% to the opposing Magnezone thanks to Analytic. My opponent predicted correctly and stopped my mag but it is obvious that magnezone was a very huge threat for this team.
[Gen 9] UU replay: pichus
vs. udongirl - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Sandy Shocks: 159-188 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Like the above replay he was scared my magnezone and analytic made his play very difficult.
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. Lily - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
I didnt need analytic here but magnezone did excellent works.
Decidueye is better in most cases. Use Brambleghast if u want to keep your hazards.
Noms:
Spinner which is good vs hippo and scares tink with powerful body press. Fighting tera improves its bad typing and enable it to check some physical attackers like ttar, and its natural typing still checks some mons like Gyarados. Its bad spdef and typing still cause some problems but it has niches and better than Tsareena, at least.
Grassy terrain leaf storm OHKOes Bramblaghast and Gengar from 1/2. Arboliva also has some good coverage (earth power pollen puff dazzling gleam etc) so it can punish some checks like Talonflame Wo-chien and Tinkaton(not OHKO but hard enough). I have a replay of this pokemon:
[Gen 9] UU replay: udongirl vs. Moutemoute - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Leaf storm is resisted by Talonflame and Wo-chien but Arboliva beated these two despite specs is knocked.
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New:
-->B+
Decidueye is a solid check to both of Quaquaval's stabs, has great utility in knock off and defog, has the ability to trap opponents, and has overall solid bulk and offenses.
--> B+
Rain can be very threatening in the tier, however due to it not being a very consistent playstyle I would keep most of the primary rain abusers and setters in B.
--> A
Quaquaval is an incredibly dangerous set up sweeper, who can easily snowball out of control if played right. It has an incredible amount of flexibility, being able to run swords dance, bulk up, and choice scarf sets well, and having good move selection for each respective set. With tera, you can work your way around a lot of its checks and then clean up once the primary counters to it are all gone. Overall I think Quaqauaval is one of the strongest new additions to the tier, and definitely deserves an A rank.
--> B
Rotom Heat is a good check to Sandy Shocks and Scizor, and it can make excellent use of nasty plot to wear down the opponent. Unfortunately it is outclassed by most other electric types, however it can fill certain niches on specific teams, so I think it should be B-.
Rises:
-->A+
Wo-Chien is easily one of the best defensive pokemon in the tier, having good longevity, great utility with knock off and leech seed, and is easily the best defensive check to Sandy Shocks. It can also become practically unkillable with tera ghost.
--> A
Iron Jugulis has a great speed tier, outspeeding fast threats such as Pawmot and Sandy Shocks, and it is also hard to switch into due to having a good stab combo for the tier, and also having great coverage, with the option to run knock over coverage to hinder switch-ins. It is a great specs wallbreaker and also a good utility pivot.
--> A
As per usual, sdpb is always a strong option, and with Scizor being able to tera to get around its checks, it has become even more threatening.
--> A
Scream Tail possesses incredible 115/99/115 bulk, 111 speed, and also wish, making it an amazing defensive utility pokemon. It acts as a great check to threats like Iron Jugulis, Pawmot, Quaquaval, Salamence, and Slither Wing. Wish is incredibly useful for teammates who lack manual recovery, and it can provide many switch-in opportunities for its teammates by using either thunder wave or encore, and can also scout an opponent's move with protect. Overall Scream Tail is a great pokemon on balance and some forms of bulky offense, and I think it should be ranked higher.
--> A
With no more Slowking to overshadow it, I think more people will start to realize how good of a defensive pokemon it is. It can check a vast majority of the tier's physical wallbreakers and physical set up sweepers, is a hard counter to most Quaquaval sets, and is one of the best stopgaps against rain teams. Body press is an incredible tool to punish dark types trying to switch in, and Slowbro can also act as a good win condition with iron defense + body press.
--> A-
Haxorus has an absurdly high base attack stat of 147, on top of two of the best set up moves in swords dance and dragon dance, and the ability mold breaker to bypass unaware pokemon like Quagsire. It can also tera to make setting up easier, and has great coverage with moves like iron head, earthquake, and close combat.
--> A-
Tera normal specs boomburst is absurdly powerful, but even pre tera Toxtricity is still a very good pokemon. Being an electric type with a secondary stab that is super effective against Wo-Chien is great, on top of having incredibly powerful electric type stab thanks to punk rock overdrive, and it even has volt switch for pivoting. Specs is it's best set, however it can run scarf well, and boots is something that can also work for it. Overall it has a very strong offensive presence in the current meta, and I think it deserves to be ranked higher than it currently is.
Here's some pokemon I think should be ranked on the VR that aren't currently;
-->C+ (Despite being walled by Tinkaton it can be a very threatening specs wallbreaker with adaptability.)
-->C+ (Hariyama can be quite good with a bulk up set, and it also has guts, which makes it a fighting type not afraid of Talonflame's burns.)
--> C (It has a niche as a defensive grass type neutral to ice, making it solid against sandy shocks.)
Drops:
--> B
Despite gaining eviolite, Bisharp isn't doing that well in UU at the moment. The amount of good fighting types is already a big hinderance for it, but Bisharp also suffers from being stonewalled by Quagsire, and checked very easily by Talonflame and Hippowdon. It is also quite slow, and with the plethora of sucker punch resists in the tier, it doesn't have much of a way to circumvent this issue. It isn't a bad pokemon, but it requires a lot of support to make work, and is ruined by a lot of common pokemon.
--> B
Despite getting an incredible new ability, Gallade still has a good amount of issues. It isn't quite fast enough without choice scarf or an agility boost, and while it is much stronger now it still gets checked easily by pokemon such as Scream Tail and Salamence, and absolutely hates Talonflame burning it since it has only contact moves.
--> B
Staraptor is still incredibly strong offensively, however over the course of UU this gen issues with it's longevity have become more apparent, with it losing a lot of health in only a few turns thanks to recoil, rocks, and rocky helmet. Most offensive pokemon aren't meant to last all game, however Staraptor is significantly harder to maintain than other fast offensive pokemon, and it is much harder to fit than other choice scarfers.
--> B-
Dual screens hasn't been a very good team style as of late, and while there has been some experimentation with utility Grimmsnarl, I wouldn't say those sets are good enough to maintain its current rank.
Now for all of the pokemon I think should be unranked;
--> UR (I forgot it was even ranked, but it does absolutely nothing and dies in almost every game it's in so please take it off of the VR)
--> UR (With Slowking gone and Abomasnow being bad, there really is no reason to use this pokemon.)
--> UR (This pokemon just doesn't do much, and there aren't many ghost types it abuses scrappy against.)
--> UR (I've defended this pokemon for a while, however with how the meta has developed, especially with the rise of Wo-Chien, Krookodile sadly no longer has a niche in the tier.)
--> UR (Naclstack only does two things, diddly and squat. Aside from being bulky it has absolutely nothing going for it.)
--> UR (I honestly see no reason to use Sableye over Grafaiai.)
--> UR (Use Frosmoth lmao)
Please blacklist these two pokemon, they're just terrible and need to drop already.
--> D
-->B+Decidueye is a solid check to both of Quaquaval's stabs, has great utility in knock off and defog, has the ability to trap opponents, and has overall solid bulk and offenses.
--> B+Rain can be very threatening in the tier, however due to it not being a very consistent playstyle I would keep most of the primary rain abusers and setters in B.
--> AQuaquaval is an incredibly dangerous set up sweeper, who can easily snowball out of control if played right. It has an incredible amount of flexibility, being able to run swords dance, bulk up, and choice scarf sets well, and having good move selection for each respective set. With tera, you can work your way around a lot of its checks and then clean up once the primary counters to it are all gone. Overall I think Quaqauaval is one of the strongest new additions to the tier, and definitely deserves an A rank.
--> BRotom Heat is a good check to Sandy Shocks and Scizor, and it can make excellent use of nasty plot to wear down the opponent. Unfortunately it is outclassed by most other electric types, however it can fill certain niches on specific teams, so I think it should be B-.
Rises:
-->A+Wo-Chien is easily one of the best defensive pokemon in the tier, having good longevity, great utility with knock off and leech seed, and is easily the best defensive check to Sandy Shocks. It can also become practically unkillable with tera ghost.
--> AIron Jugulis has a great speed tier, outspeeding fast threats such as Pawmot and Sandy Shocks, and it is also hard to switch into due to having a good stab combo for the tier, and also having great coverage, with the option to run knock over coverage to hinder switch-ins. It is a great specs wallbreaker and also a good utility pivot.
--> AAs per usual, sdpb is always a strong option, and with Scizor being able to tera to get around its checks, it has become even more threatening.
--> AScream Tail possesses incredible 115/99/115 bulk, 111 speed, and also wish, making it an amazing defensive utility pokemon. It acts as a great check to threats like Iron Jugulis, Pawmot, Quaquaval, Salamence, and Slither Wing. Wish is incredibly useful for teammates who lack manual recovery, and it can provide many switch-in opportunities for its teammates by using either thunder wave or encore, and can also scout an opponent's move with protect. Overall Scream Tail is a great pokemon on balance and some forms of bulky offense, and I think it should be ranked higher.
--> AWith no more Slowking to overshadow it, I think more people will start to realize how good of a defensive pokemon it is. It can check a vast majority of the tier's physical wallbreakers and physical set up sweepers, is a hard counter to most Quaquaval sets, and is one of the best stopgaps against rain teams. Body press is an incredible tool to punish dark types trying to switch in, and Slowbro can also act as a good win condition with iron defense + body press.
--> A-Haxorus has an absurdly high base attack stat of 147, on top of two of the best set up moves in swords dance and dragon dance, and the ability mold breaker to bypass unaware pokemon like Quagsire. It can also tera to make setting up easier, and has great coverage with moves like iron head, earthquake, and close combat.
--> A-Tera normal specs boomburst is absurdly powerful, but even pre tera Toxtricity is still a very good pokemon. Being an electric type with a secondary stab that is super effective against Wo-Chien is great, on top of having incredibly powerful electric type stab thanks to punk rock overdrive, and it even has volt switch for pivoting. Specs is it's best set, however it can run scarf well, and boots is something that can also work for it. Overall it has a very strong offensive presence in the current meta, and I think it deserves to be ranked higher than it currently is.
Here's some pokemon I think should be ranked on the VR that aren't currently;
-->C+ (Despite being walled by Tinkaton it can be a very threatening specs wallbreaker with adaptability.) -->C+ (Hariyama can be quite good with a bulk up set, and it also has guts, which makes it a fighting type not afraid of Talonflame's burns.) --> C (It has a niche as a defensive grass type neutral to ice, making it solid against sandy shocks.)Drops:
--> BDespite gaining eviolite, Bisharp isn't doing that well in UU at the moment. The amount of good fighting types is already a big hinderance for it, but Bisharp also suffers from being stonewalled by Quagsire, and checked very easily by Talonflame and Hippowdon. It is also quite slow, and with the plethora of sucker punch resists in the tier, it doesn't have much of a way to circumvent this issue. It isn't a bad pokemon, but it requires a lot of support to make work, and is ruined by a lot of common pokemon.
--> BDespite getting an incredible new ability, Gallade still has a good amount of issues. It isn't quite fast enough without choice scarf or an agility boost, and while it is much stronger now it still gets checked easily by pokemon such as Scream Tail and Salamence, and absolutely hates Talonflame burning it since it has only contact moves.
--> BStaraptor is still incredibly strong offensively, however over the course of UU this gen issues with it's longevity have become more apparent, with it losing a lot of health in only a few turns thanks to recoil, rocks, and rocky helmet. Most offensive pokemon aren't meant to last all game, however Staraptor is significantly harder to maintain than other fast offensive pokemon, and it is much harder to fit than other choice scarfers.
--> B-Dual screens hasn't been a very good team style as of late, and while there has been some experimentation with utility Grimmsnarl, I wouldn't say those sets are good enough to maintain its current rank.
Now for all of the pokemon I think should be unranked;
--> UR (I forgot it was even ranked, but it does absolutely nothing and dies in almost every game it's in so please take it off of the VR) --> UR (With Slowking gone and Abomasnow being bad, there really is no reason to use this pokemon.) --> UR (This pokemon just doesn't do much, and there aren't many ghost types it abuses scrappy against.) --> UR (I've defended this pokemon for a while, however with how the meta has developed, especially with the rise of Wo-Chien, Krookodile sadly no longer has a niche in the tier.) --> UR (Naclstack only does two things, diddly and squat. Aside from being bulky it has absolutely nothing going for it.) --> UR (I honestly see no reason to use Sableye over Grafaiai.) --> UR (Use Frosmoth lmao)Please blacklist these two pokemon, they're just terrible and need to drop already.
--> D
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New
A-
I think the duck is a good addition to the tier; however, I don't think it is all that amazing. It has some pretty bad 4MSS that leave it fairly easy to handle defensively between many meta staples like Gastrodon, Slowbro, Salamence, etc. I have lost to this mon plenty once it snowballs, but this was primarily due to Tera + bulky variants with Roost/Taunt. Sets like this are pretty cool but aren't always effective as they usually rely on Aqua Step as their sole coverage. A lot of the time setup sets will just do nothing all game. I do really like spin pivot sets though.
B+
I don't think rain is amazing but it has such an impact on building that you are forced to respect it. Without an adequate bulky Water resistance, it is incredibly annoying to play against. HO in particular has to run particular Pokemon to have an improved matchup against it. Most rain builds are extremely choreographed in terms of how it is built and plays out so I wouldn't really rank it in A.
A-
I personally am a big Heattom fan because NP sets run through so many defensive cores. Gastrodon is the biggest nuisance if you decide to not run Tera Blast Grass. Having something capable of pressuring Pokemon like Talonflame and being one of the best Sandy Shock checks is great. The Speed tier is decent enough at pressuring offensive teams too.
I have not played with or even seen a single Decidueye so I have no real opinion on it right now.
Rise
A-
Gyarados is the scariest DD user imo. It can be very difficult to keep in check if it gets going. Taunt lets you shut down most defensive Pokemon that would have a good matchup into it otherwise like Quagsire. Tera Flying or Ground can heavily sway your ability to revenge it. I have seen some people experiment with Intimidate builds, though I haven't seen them do much from experience.
Drops
A+
Maybe it is just me but I think Tink is still overrated as fuck. Sure it is a good rocker and one of our few Steels but I don't think it holds up to S status right now. In most games, I feel like it just lets so much in for free without being able to adequately punish them enough. Many defensive and offensive Pokemon alike take free turns off Tink like Slowbro, Gastrodon, both Tauros, Quaq, etc. It can hit them with a Knock Off but after that clicking anything else results in a loss of momentum most of the time. Even Pokemon it wants to defensively check, it struggles against such as Iron Jugulis, Salamence, and Gengar. It just doesn't hold up to how much impact the other S ranks have on the meta despite the high usage it has.
B+/B
The more I see it the more I think it's just mediocre. It feels so hard to get this thing to pop off because of how weak it initially is, especially with it needing to commit to having a bit of bulk. Plenty of means to defensively check it and while Tera can sway some of those matchups, it equally leaves it open to being revenged more easily too.
B
I think B+ is pretty overcrowded and these mainly stand out as things to drop to me. I think Teapot is difficult to make work with the tier having good enough defensive checks to it + priority being so common on teams, Scizor being especially problematic for it. Bisharp just struggles to do much of anything into most builds and will rarely find chances to actually clean up most games. Tsareena, unfortunately, struggles a lot with how good Talonflame is alongside other stuff like Salamence. Gallade is such an awkward Pokemon imo, it can be scary but a lot of the time I feel it falls short. It faces a lot of competition from other fighters and really hates Slowbro.
Agree with ranking Avalugg and a good portion of the UR nominations above. Also, agree with the Scizor, Slowbro, and Magnezone rises.
I think the duck is a good addition to the tier; however, I don't think it is all that amazing. It has some pretty bad 4MSS that leave it fairly easy to handle defensively between many meta staples like Gastrodon, Slowbro, Salamence, etc. I have lost to this mon plenty once it snowballs, but this was primarily due to Tera + bulky variants with Roost/Taunt. Sets like this are pretty cool but aren't always effective as they usually rely on Aqua Step as their sole coverage. A lot of the time setup sets will just do nothing all game. I do really like spin pivot sets though.
I don't think rain is amazing but it has such an impact on building that you are forced to respect it. Without an adequate bulky Water resistance, it is incredibly annoying to play against. HO in particular has to run particular Pokemon to have an improved matchup against it. Most rain builds are extremely choreographed in terms of how it is built and plays out so I wouldn't really rank it in A.
I personally am a big Heattom fan because NP sets run through so many defensive cores. Gastrodon is the biggest nuisance if you decide to not run Tera Blast Grass. Having something capable of pressuring Pokemon like Talonflame and being one of the best Sandy Shock checks is great. The Speed tier is decent enough at pressuring offensive teams too.
I have not played with or even seen a single Decidueye so I have no real opinion on it right now.
Rise
Gyarados is the scariest DD user imo. It can be very difficult to keep in check if it gets going. Taunt lets you shut down most defensive Pokemon that would have a good matchup into it otherwise like Quagsire. Tera Flying or Ground can heavily sway your ability to revenge it. I have seen some people experiment with Intimidate builds, though I haven't seen them do much from experience.
Drops
Maybe it is just me but I think Tink is still overrated as fuck. Sure it is a good rocker and one of our few Steels but I don't think it holds up to S status right now. In most games, I feel like it just lets so much in for free without being able to adequately punish them enough. Many defensive and offensive Pokemon alike take free turns off Tink like Slowbro, Gastrodon, both Tauros, Quaq, etc. It can hit them with a Knock Off but after that clicking anything else results in a loss of momentum most of the time. Even Pokemon it wants to defensively check, it struggles against such as Iron Jugulis, Salamence, and Gengar. It just doesn't hold up to how much impact the other S ranks have on the meta despite the high usage it has.
The more I see it the more I think it's just mediocre. It feels so hard to get this thing to pop off because of how weak it initially is, especially with it needing to commit to having a bit of bulk. Plenty of means to defensively check it and while Tera can sway some of those matchups, it equally leaves it open to being revenged more easily too.
I think B+ is pretty overcrowded and these mainly stand out as things to drop to me. I think Teapot is difficult to make work with the tier having good enough defensive checks to it + priority being so common on teams, Scizor being especially problematic for it. Bisharp just struggles to do much of anything into most builds and will rarely find chances to actually clean up most games. Tsareena, unfortunately, struggles a lot with how good Talonflame is alongside other stuff like Salamence. Gallade is such an awkward Pokemon imo, it can be scary but a lot of the time I feel it falls short. It faces a lot of competition from other fighters and really hates Slowbro.
Agree with ranking Avalugg and a good portion of the UR nominations above. Also, agree with the Scizor, Slowbro, and Magnezone rises.
A few things I feel worth mentioning: I do agree with a lot of the stuff in this post, HOWEVERNew:
Decidueye is a solid check to both of Quaquaval's stabs, has great utility in knock off and defog, has the ability to trap opponents, and has overall solid bulk and offenses.
Rain can be very threatening in the tier, however due to it not being a very consistent playstyle I would keep most of the primary rain abusers and setters in B.
Quaquaval is an incredibly dangerous set up sweeper, who can easily snowball out of control if played right. It has an incredible amount of flexibility, being able to run swords dance, bulk up, and choice scarf sets well, and having good move selection for each respective set. With tera, you can work your way around a lot of its checks and then clean up once the primary counters to it are all gone. Overall I think Quaqauaval is one of the strongest new additions to the tier, and definitely deserves an A rank.
Rotom Heat is a good check to Sandy Shocks and Scizor, and it can make excellent use of nasty plot to wear down the opponent. Unfortunately it is outclassed by most other electric types, however it can fill certain niches on specific teams, so I think it should be B-.
Rises:
Wo-Chien is easily one of the best defensive pokemon in the tier, having good longevity, great utility with knock off and leech seed, and is easily the best defensive check to Sandy Shocks. It can also become practically unkillable with tera ghost.
Iron Jugulis has a great speed tier, outspeeding fast threats such as Pawmot and Sandy Shocks, and it is also hard to switch into due to having a good stab combo for the tier, and also having great coverage, with the option to run knock over coverage to hinder switch-ins. It is a great specs wallbreaker and also a good utility pivot.
As per usual, sdpb is always a strong option, and with Scizor being able to tera to get around its checks, it has become even more threatening.
Scream Tail possesses incredible 115/99/115 bulk, 111 speed, and also wish, making it an amazing defensive utility pokemon. It acts as a great check to threats like Iron Jugulis, Pawmot, Quaquaval, Salamence, and Slither Wing. Wish is incredibly useful for teammates who lack manual recovery, and it can provide many switch-in opportunities for its teammates by using either thunder wave or encore, and can also scout an opponent's move with protect. Overall Scream Tail is a great pokemon on balance and some forms of bulky offense, and I think it should be ranked higher.
With no more Slowking to overshadow it, I think more people will start to realize how good of a defensive pokemon it is. It can check a vast majority of the tier's physical wallbreakers and physical set up sweepers, is a hard counter to most Quaquaval sets, and is one of the best stopgaps against rain teams. Body press is an incredible tool to punish dark types trying to switch in, and Slowbro can also act as a good win condition with iron defense + body press.
Haxorus has an absurdly high base attack stat of 147, on top of two of the best set up moves in swords dance and dragon dance, and the ability mold breaker to bypass unaware pokemon like Quagsire. It can also tera to make setting up easier, and has great coverage with moves like iron head, earthquake, and close combat.
Tera normal specs boomburst is absurdly powerful, but even pre tera Toxtricity is still a very good pokemon. Being an electric type with a secondary stab that is super effective against Wo-Chien is great, on top of having incredibly powerful electric type stab thanks to punk rock overdrive, and it even has volt switch for pivoting. Specs is it's best set, however it can run scarf well, and boots is something that can also work for it. Overall it has a very strong offensive presence in the current meta, and I think it deserves to be ranked higher than it currently is.
--> B-
Coalossal is a pretty solid spinner, with huge bulk, the ability to switch into talon endlessly, and access to both stealth rocks and spikes.
Here's some pokemon I think should be ranked on the VR that aren't currently;
Drops:
Despite gaining eviolite, Bisharp isn't doing that well in UU at the moment. The amount of good fighting types is already a big hinderance for it, but Bisharp also suffers from being stonewalled by Quagsire, and checked very easily by Talonflame and Hippowdon. It is also quite slow, and with the plethora of sucker punch resists in the tier, it doesn't have much of a way to circumvent this issue. It isn't a bad pokemon, but it requires a lot of support to make work, and is ruined by a lot of common pokemon.
Staraptor is still incredibly strong offensively, however over the course of UU this gen issues with it's longevity have become more apparent, with it losing a lot of health in only a few turns thanks to recoil, rocks, and rocky helmet. Most offensive pokemon aren't meant to last all game, however Staraptor is significantly harder to maintain than other fast offensive pokemon, and it is much harder to fit than other choice scarfers.
Dual screens hasn't been a very good team style as of late, and while there has been some experimentation with utility Grimmsnarl, I wouldn't say those sets are good enough to maintain its current rank.
Now for all of the pokemon I think should be unranked;
Tera Water Naclstack is still fine! Salt Cure is a nightmare to deal with and you kinda just sit on Rain. Not amazing but still worth being ranked.
I agree that Toedscruel and Forre are exceptionally bad, but they do unfortunately have to remain ranked in some form because they're in the tier by usage. Council should probably make those two lovebirds get a room though (D rank please we really should have a blacklist)
This breaks my heart as the #1 Coalossal Fan, but I don't think we should be discussing it rising at all, much less even really being ranked. The new shifts have just been outright terrible for it and it just no longer functions on any level thanks to Rain and Quaquaval running the tier now. It just gets stomped too easily and doesn't provide the same ability that other niche picks do to justify their existence on the team due to just dying so supremely hard. Also doesn't help that other Fires with better niches exist thanks to the rise of Rotom-Heat and the bulls.
If Brambleghast is in A- we can put Decidueye in there too! I think that the amount of tools it has alongside a useful typing in the current meta make it a great pick that's vastly underexplored. Specs especially has a lot of merit as a special breaker that can absolutely dumpster Hippowdon and Tyranitar, something Gengar struggles with. Toss in extra utility with Knock Off and U-Turn as well as Roost or Giga Drain healing for recovery and you have a solid mon that can carve out a niche of its own and is very difficult to switch into. Spirit Shackle also seems very neat, Tera bait is never bad and the ability to function as a trapper that can dispatch common threats seems very useful.
That's all, au revoir!
I see what you’re saying, however I still don’t think Naclstack is that useful since it gets naturally threatened by many offensive pokemon, and honestly over relies on tera to actually do its role effectively.
For Forre and Toed, I forgot you couldn’t unrank pokemon in the tier by usage, so that was an oversight on my part.
I also now think I did make a mistake talking about Coalossal during the meta shift with rain, so thank you for pointing that out.
Brambleghast is B+, but I wouldn’t be opposed to rising Decidueye if I see it preform well in the future.
hi heres some of my thoughts since things have shifted quite a bit in these last couple of weeks
A-/B+ : its okay, rains okay. ppl quickly adapted just bc i think everyone hates losing to floatzels clicking wave crash so theres a ton of gastro around now but still pretty threatening into typical stuff
A : tbh i think theres only a couple of mons realistically stopping this thing from sweeping, but stuff like slowbro completely own it. idk seems kinda nuts honestly with juts stabs + ice spinner, havent really seen enough of it though so this is kind of an on-paper thought
A/A- : its good, has some great moves but ofc if ur lacking uturn ur completely sat on by wochien. good addition to uu though and can be threatening vs teams lacking wochien (stabs knock is rly annoying to switch into if u dont have one)
B : solid mon, realistically though most of the ground waters just sit on u even if u tera steel (they can do stuff like pp stall ur overheats in quag's case, and some gastros just use surf now; they can also just spike/sr up and pivot around u without much care even if they cant touch u) so i think this is kind of a fraudulent point that people hype up about heattom, but it can still be a huge threat vs teams lacking one of the ground waters. rest talk seems annoying as hell too, any effective status absorber is appreciated
S -> A+/A : ngl this mon has been falling off hard in my eyes. shocks still remains super dominant, and gets plenty of opportunities to push the game in their favor coming in on tinka, whether that be with spikes or volt switch for momentum. also just kinda thuds into the ground waters and the water duck. super annoyed by ruination wochien too. its typing cannot be understated though, its very good, just a lot of things threatening it lately.
A+ -> S : one of the premier wallbreakers in the tier rn, giving key defensive utility vs scizor while also being able to annoy the hell out of every team, and even break through things it shouldnt be like gastrodon via hurricane bullshit. dont think this should be a shock to anyone
A -> S : the snail is god. rest talk is insane, and one of the best knock off absorbers in the tier. knock off alongside the flex slot in the other attack (usually ruination, giga drain, foul play) can all help handle respective matchups for a team. also just so many good teras for this mon, i thought ghost was the only good one but it can realistically use like up to 5 teras well.
some other thoughts i dont feel like elaborating too much on:
-> B+ -> B/B- (bad mon, dies to everything, completely owned by ghost chien)
-> B+ -> B/B- (bad mon, dies to talonflame, completely owned by ghosts)
-> B+ -> B : mence dominance, scream tails still great
keep at A- : still think this mon can be threatening vs the right stuff, also a dope way to deter quaquaval from aqua stepping
keep at B+ : incredibly threatening still vs most teams, tinkaton taking a dip in viability (imo) also just helps it
/ 
keep at B+ (?) : idk like, in the water bulls case it has some competition from duck dropping, but intimidate is still very good, and its a much better rain check. honestly i always thought the water bull was better than the fire bull anyway too but i respect the bulk up sets enough.
A-/B+ : its okay, rains okay. ppl quickly adapted just bc i think everyone hates losing to floatzels clicking wave crash so theres a ton of gastro around now but still pretty threatening into typical stuff A : tbh i think theres only a couple of mons realistically stopping this thing from sweeping, but stuff like slowbro completely own it. idk seems kinda nuts honestly with juts stabs + ice spinner, havent really seen enough of it though so this is kind of an on-paper thought A/A- : its good, has some great moves but ofc if ur lacking uturn ur completely sat on by wochien. good addition to uu though and can be threatening vs teams lacking wochien (stabs knock is rly annoying to switch into if u dont have one) B : solid mon, realistically though most of the ground waters just sit on u even if u tera steel (they can do stuff like pp stall ur overheats in quag's case, and some gastros just use surf now; they can also just spike/sr up and pivot around u without much care even if they cant touch u) so i think this is kind of a fraudulent point that people hype up about heattom, but it can still be a huge threat vs teams lacking one of the ground waters. rest talk seems annoying as hell too, any effective status absorber is appreciated S -> A+/A : ngl this mon has been falling off hard in my eyes. shocks still remains super dominant, and gets plenty of opportunities to push the game in their favor coming in on tinka, whether that be with spikes or volt switch for momentum. also just kinda thuds into the ground waters and the water duck. super annoyed by ruination wochien too. its typing cannot be understated though, its very good, just a lot of things threatening it lately. A+ -> S : one of the premier wallbreakers in the tier rn, giving key defensive utility vs scizor while also being able to annoy the hell out of every team, and even break through things it shouldnt be like gastrodon via hurricane bullshit. dont think this should be a shock to anyone A -> S : the snail is god. rest talk is insane, and one of the best knock off absorbers in the tier. knock off alongside the flex slot in the other attack (usually ruination, giga drain, foul play) can all help handle respective matchups for a team. also just so many good teras for this mon, i thought ghost was the only good one but it can realistically use like up to 5 teras well.some other thoughts i dont feel like elaborating too much on:
-> B+ -> B/B- (bad mon, dies to everything, completely owned by ghost chien) -> B+ -> B/B- (bad mon, dies to talonflame, completely owned by ghosts) -> B+ -> B : mence dominance, scream tails still great keep at A- : still think this mon can be threatening vs the right stuff, also a dope way to deter quaquaval from aqua stepping keep at B+ : incredibly threatening still vs most teams, tinkaton taking a dip in viability (imo) also just helps it / keep at B+ (?) : idk like, in the water bulls case it has some competition from duck dropping, but intimidate is still very good, and its a much better rain check. honestly i always thought the water bull was better than the fire bull anyway too but i respect the bulk up sets enough.
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two noms I wanted to make for this VR:
B- -> B+: This is a Pokemon who has seen some usage here and there in UUFPL and UUPL and has been a decent Pokemon more or less. Specs hits hard but its ability to pass wishes is not too bad even if it has to compete with 
and for that role. It's other unique trait it has over its fellow bulky fairies is Tera Blast always being a STAB move no matter what. This makes Tera Blast a nice buffer especially for and a little less dependent on having teammates handle that MU.
The CM Wish set is a little underrated IMO and it was an awesome bring in my Week 2 UUFPL match. It has an excellent MU against the
+ core and matches up fairly nicely against Special Attackers on Rain teams if you invest SpDef. CM is a very nice wincon on fat teams and pairs well with some combination of the WTH trio of , 
and 
, even stuff like is not a consistent switch into Hyper Voice.
C+ -> B/B+: Another bulky fairy type that's a special wall that has been somewhat overlooked but fairly effective. Another CM Wish-passer that is comparable to and is direct competition as they more or less do similar things with the CM Wish pass set. It also matches up well against most special attackers in the tier not named 
but tera steel can patch that up if it's choiced-locked (This also applies to Sylveon). A lot of what I said about Sylveon besides Tera Blast applies to Florges as well. The main reason you might want to bring over is its ability to outspeed naturally and the extra PP on Moonblast for prolonged fights as there have been times where it feels like you wish had extra PP on their Hyper Voice.
The key is that these two fairies have more immediate offensive pressure over which is much more important against offensive teams while still being able to support its team effectively. having IMO taken a dip in viability also helps both of their cases due to the new drops/shifts in the tier being extremely unfavorable matchup-wise. I think people should give and more of a chance.
B- -> B+: This is a Pokemon who has seen some usage here and there in UUFPL and UUPL and has been a decent Pokemon more or less. Specs hits hard but its ability to pass wishes is not too bad even if it has to compete with and for that role. It's other unique trait it has over its fellow bulky fairies is Tera Blast always being a STAB move no matter what. This makes Tera Blast a nice buffer especially for and a little less dependent on having teammates handle that MU.The CM Wish set is a little underrated IMO and it was an awesome bring in my Week 2 UUFPL match. It has an excellent MU against the
+ core and matches up fairly nicely against Special Attackers on Rain teams if you invest SpDef. CM is a very nice wincon on fat teams and pairs well with some combination of the WTH trio of , and , even stuff like is not a consistent switch into Hyper Voice. C+ -> B/B+: Another bulky fairy type that's a special wall that has been somewhat overlooked but fairly effective. Another CM Wish-passer that is comparable to and is direct competition as they more or less do similar things with the CM Wish pass set. It also matches up well against most special attackers in the tier not named but tera steel can patch that up if it's choiced-locked (This also applies to Sylveon). A lot of what I said about Sylveon besides Tera Blast applies to Florges as well. The main reason you might want to bring over is its ability to outspeed naturally and the extra PP on Moonblast for prolonged fights as there have been times where it feels like you wish had extra PP on their Hyper Voice. The key is that these two fairies have more immediate offensive pressure over
which is much more important against offensive teams while still being able to support its team effectively. having IMO taken a dip in viability also helps both of their cases due to the new drops/shifts in the tier being extremely unfavorable matchup-wise. I think people should give and more of a chance. 
Been a while and the VR and very outdated now but just thought I’d leave some noms before changes
The New
New -> A-/A: I’ve seen a fair amount of people correlate pelipper’s viability directly to that of Floatzel/Full Rain as an archetype which I don’t really agree with, I think pelipper actually has enough going for it in its own right to warrant a placement above Floatzel. Offensive Peli is actually quite nice and abuses its own rain quite well while functioning as a cool soft offensive check to stuff like Quaquaval. One thing I don’t like about this mon is that giving your opponent 100% accurate hurricanes can be a nightmare sometimes, but hey there’s a give and a take for an otherwise good mon.
New -> B+: It’s annoying but I don’t rate it very highly truth be told. I feel like this mon has received way too much respect (for good reason) and way too many adaptations have been made for it to really be super consistent. I think it’s okay but I wouldn’t place it outside of B territory.
New -> A: This mon is also annoying but haven’t really seen it take off yet. I think there’s still a lot of stupid stuff it can do on paper and Aqua Step is still a pretty evil move when it comes to limiting offensive counterplay and snowballing. Big thing with this mon is that Slowbro is an ever present thorn in your side and it often struggles to fit the things that give it so much potential. I think SD 3A is probably one of the better sets rn although dropping roost is a bit sad. Rapid Spin sets sound cool but haven’t seen much of those. I’ve heard stuff about taunt but I’m not really sold, feels too hard to fit personally.
New -> B+: It’s a good mon, I mentioned it in a post a little while ago but he’s neat. Matching up nicely into Talon and to an extent shocks the way it does is appreciated and NP (the only real set imo) can be quite scary. Tera steel + Levitate + NP is also the tried and true combo and you can be a mini-hydreigon if you’re into that. I don’t think there’s too much to say about this one, just a pretty good mon.
New -> B+/A-: Decidueye is pretty good; The owl has some good utility and functions pretty nicely offensively in its own right. I think there’s actually a pretty large number of ways you can go about running this and succeed with. Being mixed offensively is actually pretty cool in this instance and the bulk is not too terrible either. Spirit Shackle + Tera has some fun potential shenanigans if you get a good MU, not something I’ve really seen or been able to pop off with but its a fun option if you ever get the chance.
Rises
A+ -> S-: One of these most defining mons in the tier as both a breaker and in a defensive role. Intimidate along with the typing are just so valuable especially when the bulk is there to back up the offensive potency of the mon. Personally I do feel like it’s a step below S (albeit a small one) but I wouldn’t mind a rise to S tier proper. I just think this mon is amazing and a rise is justified to signify its place as such a dominant force in the metagame. (If you ask me again after I ladder w/ this mon and miss 8 canes and dracos in a row he’s going straight to the C tier)
A -> A+: I probably don’t need to explain this one but to keep it brief: Knock Off good, snail doesn’t die, has a number of viable Tera types and they’re all equally unkillable, Foul Play/Ruination are both great options to either put a dent in something or mitigate set up mons, etc.
A- -> A: A staple on a number of balances and is just generally a defensive centrepiece of the current meta. Super passive but encore and the speed tier are phenomenal tools for it.
A- -> A/A+: This is not an A- mon lol. We’ve seen what this thing does and it has done it countless times. Has a number of ways to bypass its counterplay and demands checks to be stacked on every team. Even with the rise of the tauri and mence being as good as it is, SDBPBPBP endgames still plague the meta. Personally I hate this mon lol.
B -> A-/A: I have always been a believer in the almighty bro and now with meta shifts he finally has his opportunity to ascend to his throne in the upper echelon of the VR. In all seriousness the shifts were amazing for this mon and tbh he was great even before them and to an extent I think his merits are finally being realised. It’s just a very sturdy wall that has amazing coverage so that he isn’t too easy to swap into, a great anti-physical set up option, a good water resist w/ regen for rain and the gay duck, etc. Even stuff like Yawn, Future Sight, and Twave have merit as cool utility options. Also notably can run Rocky helmet pretty well for the match up maus.
B+ -> A-: Just a super good enabler of the myriad of mons that want Tinkaton gone. He’s also just a pretty nice mon in his own right as it has the coveted steel type and the broken volt switch with pretty good stats so it really isn’t even deadweight outside of trapping Tinkaton. The grounds are annoying if you cant afford to snipe them with Tera but at the end of the day they’re fine since the greater purpose is magnet pulling.
B -> B+: People don’t really talk about this guy but he’s respectable enough to warrant a rise in my eyes. At the end of the day it still has access to volt switch + leaf storm to own grounds and very nice utility with wisp (broken move in a post heal bell society btw.) I think a modest rise to B+ is justified.
C+ -> B+: This being in the C tier in the first place was a bit out of pocket given that it has so many inherently positive traits, it’s an extremely physically bulky water type that can blanket check most of the physical metagame while also having regenerator and a wish that can heal half of the meta for 80%. With that said yeah it is also one of the most passive mons in the meta but it’s still good on fatter teams that can afford it. Whirlpool is also a lot more annoying than it should be and ensures that it can’t be double switched on for safe pivots into something else.
C+ -> B-: Has a very respectable niche as a fast screener with Mbounce and CM sets have pleasantly surprised me. I don’t think it’s great or anything but B- is a more accurate placement for it as it stands.
Drops
There’s less notable ones here so going to be very brief with a few
S -> A+: I never really agreed with this being in S, it is obviously good and has a lot of role compression w/ the ability to blanket check a lot on the special side but it has always been pretty flawed and never really answered much long term. Being susceptible to Magnezone is also not a great look atm. We’ve also just gotten more things that threaten it and annoy it. Still good but S is a bit much relative to its effectiveness.
B+ -> B: Cool offensive potential but never makes much use out of it and is super hard to fit. In theory there is no defensive counterplay but in practice its mostly a flop that will usually die way too quickly and the newfound prominence of Rocky Helmet on mons like Alomomola and Slowbro don’t do it any favours.
B -> C: Not even good as a screens lead when you can never fit in everything you want. You are always dropping something big and you’re either walled by dark types or missing out on taunt, its just flat out not good.
C+ -> C: This is a bad Pokémon. It’s just not good. No recovery, stifled severely by its ability, will never be able to fit in all the moves it wants, minimal resists, etc. Knock + Toxic is still moderately annoying to answer outside of resttalk Wo-Chien but I’m still tempted to send it to UR.
C+ -> C: Who let the mediocre suicide lead escape from the C tier? Go back to your place w/ the rest of your kind imo.
Honourable Mentions
Some URs I think are definitely worth ranking rn but can’t be bothered to write up a full nomination for:
Has a bit of a magnezone addiction but if Tinkaton is out of its way then its actually quite hard to swap into and I think the typing is just awesome right now.
No idea why this wasn’t ranked before. The big man has gotten a bit worse over time but he still has a very legitimate place in the meta and is worth ranking. Being a physical set up mon that doesn’t care about Talon is just a cool trait to have and thats to say nothing about access to the broken Knock Off.
This isn’t a nomination I just wanted to say I hate this mon, I swear it has serene grace. (But that being said I do think it warrants a rise to A- as taunt sets are extremely obnoxious and sub is pretty good too, intim means it actually has a cool defensive profile too.)
The New
New -> A-/A: I’ve seen a fair amount of people correlate pelipper’s viability directly to that of Floatzel/Full Rain as an archetype which I don’t really agree with, I think pelipper actually has enough going for it in its own right to warrant a placement above Floatzel. Offensive Peli is actually quite nice and abuses its own rain quite well while functioning as a cool soft offensive check to stuff like Quaquaval. One thing I don’t like about this mon is that giving your opponent 100% accurate hurricanes can be a nightmare sometimes, but hey there’s a give and a take for an otherwise good mon. New -> B+: It’s annoying but I don’t rate it very highly truth be told. I feel like this mon has received way too much respect (for good reason) and way too many adaptations have been made for it to really be super consistent. I think it’s okay but I wouldn’t place it outside of B territory. New -> A: This mon is also annoying but haven’t really seen it take off yet. I think there’s still a lot of stupid stuff it can do on paper and Aqua Step is still a pretty evil move when it comes to limiting offensive counterplay and snowballing. Big thing with this mon is that Slowbro is an ever present thorn in your side and it often struggles to fit the things that give it so much potential. I think SD 3A is probably one of the better sets rn although dropping roost is a bit sad. Rapid Spin sets sound cool but haven’t seen much of those. I’ve heard stuff about taunt but I’m not really sold, feels too hard to fit personally. New -> B+: It’s a good mon, I mentioned it in a post a little while ago but he’s neat. Matching up nicely into Talon and to an extent shocks the way it does is appreciated and NP (the only real set imo) can be quite scary. Tera steel + Levitate + NP is also the tried and true combo and you can be a mini-hydreigon if you’re into that. I don’t think there’s too much to say about this one, just a pretty good mon. New -> B+/A-: Decidueye is pretty good; The owl has some good utility and functions pretty nicely offensively in its own right. I think there’s actually a pretty large number of ways you can go about running this and succeed with. Being mixed offensively is actually pretty cool in this instance and the bulk is not too terrible either. Spirit Shackle + Tera has some fun potential shenanigans if you get a good MU, not something I’ve really seen or been able to pop off with but its a fun option if you ever get the chance.Rises
A+ -> S-: One of these most defining mons in the tier as both a breaker and in a defensive role. Intimidate along with the typing are just so valuable especially when the bulk is there to back up the offensive potency of the mon. Personally I do feel like it’s a step below S (albeit a small one) but I wouldn’t mind a rise to S tier proper. I just think this mon is amazing and a rise is justified to signify its place as such a dominant force in the metagame. (If you ask me again after I ladder w/ this mon and miss 8 canes and dracos in a row he’s going straight to the C tier) A -> A+: I probably don’t need to explain this one but to keep it brief: Knock Off good, snail doesn’t die, has a number of viable Tera types and they’re all equally unkillable, Foul Play/Ruination are both great options to either put a dent in something or mitigate set up mons, etc.A- -> A: A staple on a number of balances and is just generally a defensive centrepiece of the current meta. Super passive but encore and the speed tier are phenomenal tools for it. A- -> A/A+: This is not an A- mon lol. We’ve seen what this thing does and it has done it countless times. Has a number of ways to bypass its counterplay and demands checks to be stacked on every team. Even with the rise of the tauri and mence being as good as it is, SDBPBPBP endgames still plague the meta. Personally I hate this mon lol. B -> A-/A: I have always been a believer in the almighty bro and now with meta shifts he finally has his opportunity to ascend to his throne in the upper echelon of the VR. In all seriousness the shifts were amazing for this mon and tbh he was great even before them and to an extent I think his merits are finally being realised. It’s just a very sturdy wall that has amazing coverage so that he isn’t too easy to swap into, a great anti-physical set up option, a good water resist w/ regen for rain and the gay duck, etc. Even stuff like Yawn, Future Sight, and Twave have merit as cool utility options. Also notably can run Rocky helmet pretty well for the match up maus. B+ -> A-: Just a super good enabler of the myriad of mons that want Tinkaton gone. He’s also just a pretty nice mon in his own right as it has the coveted steel type and the broken volt switch with pretty good stats so it really isn’t even deadweight outside of trapping Tinkaton. The grounds are annoying if you cant afford to snipe them with Tera but at the end of the day they’re fine since the greater purpose is magnet pulling. B -> B+: People don’t really talk about this guy but he’s respectable enough to warrant a rise in my eyes. At the end of the day it still has access to volt switch + leaf storm to own grounds and very nice utility with wisp (broken move in a post heal bell society btw.) I think a modest rise to B+ is justified. C+ -> B+: This being in the C tier in the first place was a bit out of pocket given that it has so many inherently positive traits, it’s an extremely physically bulky water type that can blanket check most of the physical metagame while also having regenerator and a wish that can heal half of the meta for 80%. With that said yeah it is also one of the most passive mons in the meta but it’s still good on fatter teams that can afford it. Whirlpool is also a lot more annoying than it should be and ensures that it can’t be double switched on for safe pivots into something else. C+ -> B-: Has a very respectable niche as a fast screener with Mbounce and CM sets have pleasantly surprised me. I don’t think it’s great or anything but B- is a more accurate placement for it as it stands.Drops
There’s less notable ones here so going to be very brief with a few
S -> A+: I never really agreed with this being in S, it is obviously good and has a lot of role compression w/ the ability to blanket check a lot on the special side but it has always been pretty flawed and never really answered much long term. Being susceptible to Magnezone is also not a great look atm. We’ve also just gotten more things that threaten it and annoy it. Still good but S is a bit much relative to its effectiveness. B+ -> B: Cool offensive potential but never makes much use out of it and is super hard to fit. In theory there is no defensive counterplay but in practice its mostly a flop that will usually die way too quickly and the newfound prominence of Rocky Helmet on mons like Alomomola and Slowbro don’t do it any favours. B -> C: Not even good as a screens lead when you can never fit in everything you want. You are always dropping something big and you’re either walled by dark types or missing out on taunt, its just flat out not good. C+ -> C: This is a bad Pokémon. It’s just not good. No recovery, stifled severely by its ability, will never be able to fit in all the moves it wants, minimal resists, etc. Knock + Toxic is still moderately annoying to answer outside of resttalk Wo-Chien but I’m still tempted to send it to UR. C+ -> C: Who let the mediocre suicide lead escape from the C tier? Go back to your place w/ the rest of your kind imo.Honourable Mentions
Some URs I think are definitely worth ranking rn but can’t be bothered to write up a full nomination for:
Has a bit of a magnezone addiction but if Tinkaton is out of its way then its actually quite hard to swap into and I think the typing is just awesome right now. No idea why this wasn’t ranked before. The big man has gotten a bit worse over time but he still has a very legitimate place in the meta and is worth ranking. Being a physical set up mon that doesn’t care about Talon is just a cool trait to have and thats to say nothing about access to the broken Knock Off. This isn’t a nomination I just wanted to say I hate this mon, I swear it has serene grace. (But that being said I do think it warrants a rise to A- as taunt sets are extremely obnoxious and sub is pretty good too, intim means it actually has a cool defensive profile too.)
going over some mons based off the past few months and my reqs run so far
to a
If Pelipper was just a U-turn bot for rain teams I would put it lower, but it can still be more than that. Choice Specs with Tera Water basically makes it a mini Kyogre that takes advantage of mons that normally switch into it like Tinkaton and Brambleghast.
to a
Quaquaval is an insane sweeper late game with so much tech that it can run. I still don't know if it is broken or not, because it wants the Salamence slaying coverage of Ice Spinner but would also appreciate the instant recovery of Roost as well, but time will tell on that front.
to b
Overall solid Scizor and Sandy Shocks check that is pretty solid with NP, not much else to say tbh since it can be revenge killed due to the pretty mid speed tier.
to a-
Decidueye packs a surprising amount of utility all in one. Defog separates itself from other Grass hazard removal advantage by actually being able to threaten Ghost types more efficiently with Knock Off. Long Reach also lets it completely ignore Talonflame's Flame Body and Rocky Helmet to be a great pivot as well.
to s-
Mence is just super splashable and has become even better with the advent of Tera Water (haha get it), not only becoming a fantastic Scizor counter and general good utility, but also boosting Hydro Pump to really blast through Hippowdon and Tyranitar with greater ease. really wanted to vote S, but I found the Gastro match up too annoying to put it any higher.
to a+
Mixed Wo-Chien is the king of taking hits that it's not supposed to. RestTalk sets are basically unkillable and Knock Off is even better now that Gastrodon is running Storm Drain for and even Tera Ghost for rain/Quaquaval again. Still one of the best defensive users of Tera whether it's Poison, Ghost, or even Fairy.
to a
Jugg Messiah saw tons of UUPL usage and for a very good reason. There are very few flying resists in the tier right now and Tinkaton can be smacked by a well timed Earth Power. Booster Energy sets outspeed the entire tier, Choice Specs kills the entire tier, and is overall one of the best breakers we have rn.
to a-
The mice can really just brute force through teams way more easily than you might expect, especially if you've burned Tera before it sets up. I think that it's the best mon in the tier at doing that, which can be so key because it foes need to handle both it and the myriad of threats on HO teams.
to b+
It might be time to start putting Slither Wing on the side of a milk carton because where did it go? On a serious note, Slither Wing is not having a great time at all in the current meta, as it always has to make the right predictions every time and is so helpless against most Pokemon that it theoretically should have a good match up against like Wo-Chien. It really can't use it's bulky sets as much as well because rain and sand hamper Morning Sun. Pretty much not worth using nowadays.
If Pelipper was just a U-turn bot for rain teams I would put it lower, but it can still be more than that. Choice Specs with Tera Water basically makes it a mini Kyogre that takes advantage of mons that normally switch into it like Tinkaton and Brambleghast.
Quaquaval is an insane sweeper late game with so much tech that it can run. I still don't know if it is broken or not, because it wants the Salamence slaying coverage of Ice Spinner but would also appreciate the instant recovery of Roost as well, but time will tell on that front.
Overall solid Scizor and Sandy Shocks check that is pretty solid with NP, not much else to say tbh since it can be revenge killed due to the pretty mid speed tier.
Decidueye packs a surprising amount of utility all in one. Defog separates itself from other Grass hazard removal advantage by actually being able to threaten Ghost types more efficiently with Knock Off. Long Reach also lets it completely ignore Talonflame's Flame Body and Rocky Helmet to be a great pivot as well.
Mence is just super splashable and has become even better with the advent of Tera Water (haha get it), not only becoming a fantastic Scizor counter and general good utility, but also boosting Hydro Pump to really blast through Hippowdon and Tyranitar with greater ease. really wanted to vote S, but I found the Gastro match up too annoying to put it any higher.
Mixed Wo-Chien is the king of taking hits that it's not supposed to. RestTalk sets are basically unkillable and Knock Off is even better now that Gastrodon is running Storm Drain for and even Tera Ghost for rain/Quaquaval again. Still one of the best defensive users of Tera whether it's Poison, Ghost, or even Fairy.
Jugg Messiah saw tons of UUPL usage and for a very good reason. There are very few flying resists in the tier right now and Tinkaton can be smacked by a well timed Earth Power. Booster Energy sets outspeed the entire tier, Choice Specs kills the entire tier, and is overall one of the best breakers we have rn.
The mice can really just brute force through teams way more easily than you might expect, especially if you've burned Tera before it sets up. I think that it's the best mon in the tier at doing that, which can be so key because it foes need to handle both it and the myriad of threats on HO teams.
It might be time to start putting Slither Wing on the side of a milk carton because where did it go? On a serious note, Slither Wing is not having a great time at all in the current meta, as it always has to make the right predictions every time and is so helpless against most Pokemon that it theoretically should have a good match up against like Wo-Chien. It really can't use it's bulky sets as much as well because rain and sand hamper Morning Sun. Pretty much not worth using nowadays.
We've got a huge update incoming. We're talking BIG CHUNGUS sized. We voted on the entire VR and the changes from the slate are below. A huge thanks to our wonderful VR team for taking the time to vote on the entire VR + around a dozen new additions. Also, big thanks to Queen of Bean and Easter Bliss for helping out with the tiebreaks. Now, here are the results of our update!
New Placements
to A
to A-
to B+
to B+
Rises
from A+ to S
from A to A+
from A- to A
from A- to A+
from B+ to A-
from B to B+
from B to A-
from B- to B
from C+ to A-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C+ to B-
from C to C+
from C to C+
from C to C+
from UR to B+
from UR to B
from UR to B
from UR to B-
from UR to C+
from UR to C
from UR to C
Drops
from S to A+
from S to A+
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A+ to A
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A to A-
from A- to B+
from A- to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B-
from B+ to B-
from B+ to B
from B to C+
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from B- to C+
from C+ to UR
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to C
from C+ to D
from C to D
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
from C to UR
Both Appletun and Avalugg were voted on but neither recieved enough votes to be ranked
Because of the sheer number of changes (told you it was big chungus sized), I am not writing reasonings for every change. Instead, I will open this thread for 24 hours for questions about the changes to the VR, where our lovely VR team will respond to any questions you have. Please do not repeat any questions that have already been asked. Hold off on nominations until this 24 hour period is up. That is all, I hope you enjoyed this update!
New Placements
to A to A- to B+ to B+Rises
from A+ to S from A to A+ from A- to A from A- to A+ from B+ to A- from B to B+ from B to A- from B- to B from C+ to A- from C+ to B- from C+ to B- from C+ to B- from C+ to B- from C to C+ from C to C+ from C to C+ from UR to B+ from UR to B from UR to B from UR to B- from UR to C+ from UR to C from UR to CDrops
from S to A+ from S to A+ from A+ to A from A+ to A from A+ to A from A to A- from A to A- from A to A- from A- to B+ from A- to B+ from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B from B+ to B- from B+ to B- from B+ to B from B to C+ from B to B- from B to B- from B to B- from B- to C+ from B- to C+ from B- to C+ from C+ to UR from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to C from C+ to D from C to D from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to UR from C to URBoth Appletun and Avalugg were voted on but neither recieved enough votes to be ranked
Because of the sheer number of changes (told you it was big chungus sized), I am not writing reasonings for every change. Instead, I will open this thread for 24 hours for questions about the changes to the VR, where our lovely VR team will respond to any questions you have. Please do not repeat any questions that have already been asked. Hold off on nominations until this 24 hour period is up. That is all, I hope you enjoyed this update!
whats the reason for hippowdon dropping? i feel like its doing just as good as ever, if not better
I am curious why Brambleghast dropped. Did Decidueye's existence really give it that much competition or did meta trends go against it that badly?
Also, what caused Iron Thorns to rise after its previous drop and Talonflame to drop from S?
Also, what caused Iron Thorns to rise after its previous drop and Talonflame to drop from S?
joining the slew of folks asking why hippo dropped?? tera water is one of the few things that can stop quaqaval, it's a core piece of stopping rain, etc etc. also what got muk ranked?
Why did Alomomola rise that high? I'd have understood a jump to the B ranks but A- seems really high to me
Why did Slither Wing and Tyranitar drop?
Why did Slither Wing and Tyranitar drop?
why did tatsu and tsar drop? both of them were pretty good at their job, tsar can pivot in and out while tatsu has NP? or that was the reasoning before
I think SWing and Ttar drop can be attributed to the fighting type surge we've been seeing with Pawmot and Quaqaval. SWing has to deal with the added competition and the subsequent increase in Mence, and it's the worse fighter into Mence. Ttar naturally would dislike the current trends. (Also forgot the mad Scizor uptick we saw, and discussion around it's potential brokenness that led to it's suspect. Sciz is a mon that SWing competes with and Ttar naturally hates.) They're still great mons but I think their current VR slots are more accurate regarding their viability.
While I'm not on the tiering council, my guess as to why Tsareena dropped is the arrival of Decidueye. Decidueye is another grass-type hazard remover with pivoting, and generally is a better choice than Tsareena.
Decidueye is slightly bulkier, has more surprise factor, has a very useful secondary ghost typing, and actually takes advantage of Tsareena. When a Tsareena plays against a Decidueye team, it's a massive pain to knock out Decidueye in order to clear hazards due to its access to Roost and bulk. In addition, if Tsareena guesses wrong and Rapid Spins on a Decidueye switch-in, it get slow u-turned on and becomes nothing but a momentum sink.
I have no clue why Iron Thorns rose, but for the other two:
-If you're looking for a Grass/Ghost type, Decidueye is basically better than Brambleghast. Better stats, more threatening, more reliable, more options. The reason Brambleghast doesn't completely fall off is that it remains a great Spike stacker and can shut down certain physical threats with Strength Sap. However, it's not as good with competition for its typing.
-Talonflame is still fantastic, but it can feel hard to do much with it at times. Poor bulk and a weakness to Knock Off means it can be very difficult to get in a comfortable position with it, you often have to use Roost or Will-O-Wisp to not crumble to whatever's in front of you. Meta trends are also rather rough on it with Water types becoming more common, same for Fire types like Rotom-Heat and Coalossal and especially Tera Fire sweepers such as Scizor. In general, the meta is adapting for it and keeping up is not very easy for it.
A few games in UUPL. It's unique as a bulky Poison type and can spread status easily thanks to Poison Touch. It's C rank because it's still not that good, but it has some specific resistances that can be valuable enough for certain teams to make it worth ranking.
I believe Alomomola has seen some pretty heavy success in UUPL and UUFPL lately. Mainly, its Water resistance alongside Regenerator makes it a whole lot more valuable with Rain around and it's been seeing more experimentation on balance to keep teammates healthy. Part of the rise was honestly that players were undervaluing it before.
Slither Wing is a very extreme mon. STAB U-Turn and First Impression are incredible and its resistances can be very nice, but having to compete with Scizor as a U-Turn and priority user is rough, especially in a metagame where Flying types are dominant. Tera types like Fairy and Ghost that naturally counter it are also common for defensive pokemon like Gastrodon, Wo-Chien and Quagsire, so it becomes much more difficult to properly threaten stuff out with it. Still strong, but its flaws are weighing it down a lot.
Tyranitar's playstyle shifted a lot with the Pelipper dropping to UU and the rise of Salamence, becoming a great Hurricane absorber and forcing switches against mons it can wall. The main issue is that its previous A+ ranking was in part due to Dragon Dance sets which have become a lot worse due to the faster-paced nature of the current meta and the growing popularity of Scizor. It essentially fills a different role that's not quite as valuable.
Tsareena tends to become a U-Turn bot for a lot of matchups because it otherwise gives switch-in opportunities to so many threats. Its coverage is just not good enough to properly threaten Ghost types like Gengar, Brambleghast and Decidueye or Flying types like Salamence and Iron Jugulis. It has good traits, but making use of them is too difficult because its coverage is so abusable.
Tatsugiri has add a somewhat mediocre showing in UUPL from what I've seen. Doing anything with it is risky because it's incredibly frail, and that's pretty bad for a pokemon that wants to use Nasty Plot and Rapid Spin. Its mediocre starting speed tier doesn't help this issue. Hazard removal has also been getting easier, so offensive teams tend to use better removal options such as Decidueye instead of an inconsistent mon like Tatsugiri.
Why did Coalossal rise to B- rank? With rain and Quaquaval dropping into the tier, it feels like relying on Coalossal for hazard removal and setting is a bad idea. It's a physically defensive Pokemon that can't wall the new prominent physical attackers, which makes its previous placement of C+ seem more fitting due to inconsistency and the large amount of required support.
Was a little surprised by it but as someone who has been a big fan of Coalossal I still think its pretty decent on the right team (read: niche mon though).
What makes it so nice as a hazard setter is that when you buildspikestack with it (eg. Gastrodon + Coalossal) you end up in a position where both hazard setters have a positive matchup versus Talon especially, unlike stuff like Tink + Gastro, Gastro + Bramble etc where there's always gonna be 1 of the setters that doesn't. Compared to something like Bramble too you aren't trying to compress so badly since Rocks is just a 1 set-up on the Coal, also gives ur Gastro etc more to click in situations where clicking attacks won't do as much.
The big kicker for me with Coal is that despite the fact its true that it can't wall prominent physical attackers like you say, double Flame Body cores are REALLY really nice to allow you to aggressively use Coal into various physical threats it might not even check if you value the Burn on them, with no need to make risky plays with your Talon against resisted hits and potentially lose it. It does offer some rather unique things it checks like mimikyu and staraptor which is nice but not really something you go hunting for a mon to do, but is definitely a side benefit at least.
I wouldn't say you have to rely overly much on having it remove still as you can still boots stack and just cope with only rocks up if you want, but it does have a positive matchup versus Tink at least as one of the more popular Rockers while not being very easily spinblockable, so you can definitely get some chances since you don't feel the compression so bad. some matchups you can kinda tera water it too if you don't need to tera something else on the team to win the match, better checking things like Tink and not caring about being knocked while being able to throw it into physical waters more freely for burn fishing can be nice.
tl-dr: bit surprised but its a pretty viable mon so the rise is kinda explainable.
To offer an alternative angle to this than Mossy, both Bramble and Talonflame drops actually seemed a little controversial amongst the team with non-negligble numbers of people ranking Bramble > Deci and keeping Talon in S or S-.
Mossy offered some discussion on why some people believed Decidueye to be better than Bramble, but quite a few people (including myself) really value a couple of things about Bramble more. The key assumption of course is that you are using these Pokemon to spinblock on Spikes teams, imo there's no competition here and Bramble is just objectively better, although Decidueye has other stuff going for it. Whats better about Bramble in these situations is that 1) it compresses Spikes onto the mon which has objective advantages in terms of making builds work, it can't really set up multiple layers too easily but 1 layer is very easy for it to manage while still doing its jobs, and 2) Rapid Spin is objectively a lot nicer on these teams than Deci which just fogs away your own hazards and makes progress making a lot harder. Bramble's ability to better keep Spikes up and compress them onto the one slot ends up being a big advantage for those Taunt Talonflame Spikestack style teams and the like.
- Status