Reflecting on BW and Looking Ahead to Gen VI - SEE POST #508

[HabibsHotDogs]

Does anybody have any theories on how GF will balance Stealth Rock? Obviously weather will get either a big buff (for non-rain) or a nerf, but stealth rock changes may not be so obvious. I'll guess that they will either introduce more viable spinners (maybe chespin's final evolution) or alternative ways of stopping SR, for example:


My made up move

Mossy Cover
PP: 20
Type: Grass
Effects: Protects all grounded pokemon on team from taking hazard damage for 6 turns, is destroyed when a fire type switches in (they take no hazard damage), grass types get turn recovery (6.25%)

 

[HUARGH]

To be honest Habibs I don't think GF will address stealth rock at all. I hope I'm wrong, though.

EDIT: Kind of a short post so I should probably elaborate. I don't think GF will specifically address stealth rock but may 'soft-address' it by adding more viable ways to get rid of it through things like a wider distribution of rapid spin or a rapid-spin like equivalent that can also hit ghosts. I don't think this really 'fixes' the problem though because you don't get an advantage by spinning away stealth rock (ignoring silly scenarios such as PP). You merely equalize the game, using stealth rock gives you a +1 whereas removing it gives you a -1 resulting in 0 so the rapid spin user is always a step behind.

 

[nose]

http://pokebeach.com/

Some rumors about a fairy type (somewhere in the middle of the page)

If this is true, then Fairy is a fantastic typing. If this is legit and fairy is immune to Dragon, then we could actually have even some Uber Dragons in OU (Fairy/Water could wall even SPECS Kyurem White to hell and back, as it resists Ice and Fire, is immune to Dragon, and with 100 HP and minimum 129 SpD does not face a 2HKO from Specs Modest 252 SpA Focus Blast from Kyurem-W, even after Stealth Rock).

And by my calculations (which was make a type chart using the info I had on fairy and smogons type chart), Fairy/Steel with Levitate/Flash Fire has 9 resists and 3 immunities. Thats more resists/immunities (when combined) than Ferrothorn, the premier wall of OU. Ferro has 11, Fairy/Steel has 12.

Fairy/Steel with Levitate/Flash Fire
Notable immunities include Dragon and Ground OR Fire (depending on ability).

Notable resists include: Rock, Dark, Fighting, Bug, Ice, Flying, Normal, Psychic, Grass

Weaknesses (if its ability is Flash Fire, then Ground and Fighting, if its ability is Levitate, then its Fire and Fighting)

Offensively Fairy is not too bad either. Only Fire and Psychic resist it. It deals 2x on Dark, Fighting, and Dragon. (So a Dragon/Fighting won't be Uber, as if Fairy is a legit new type, then its always in check, if one runs a fairy move).

Fairy+Ground covers everyone but Shedninja and Air Balloon Heatran.

Fairy+Rock covers everything.

What do you think?

I wish for this to happen with all my soul, but I really doubt it will. Trollfreak don't care about our wants or needs, because they're main priority is to make money. And you don't make money by doing what smogon needs, they make money by appealing to ten year olds. Ten year olds don't care about fairy types, and neither does nintendo.


Anyway, as far as what I would like to see (aside from Fenniken not being fire/fighting), is a very reliable and easy way to get rid of stealth rocks and weather. It won't happen, but if there was an air-lock pokemon that got rapid spin, it would change the meta into a much more skillful game. I don't care how they do it, but I want them to get rid of weather and rocks.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I wish for this to happen with all my soul, but I really doubt it will. Trollfreak don't care about our wants or needs, because they're main priority is to make money. And you don't make money by doing what smogon needs, they make money by appealing to ten year olds. Ten year olds don't care about fairy types, and neither does nintendo.


Anyway, as far as what I would like to see (aside from Fenniken not being fire/fighting), is a very reliable and easy way to get rid of stealth rocks and weather. It won't happen, but if there was an air-lock pokemon that got rapid spin, it would change the meta into a much more skillful game. I don't care how they do it, but I want them to get rid of weather and rocks.

Gamefreak: Ok we'll do that!!

BUTTTTTTTTT..... Well give it 60 in defenses and 40 HP. Also only 90 speed!!!! and Bug/Psychic typing!!!!!!

If this happens, troll freak will troll us. Unless the Bug/Psychic gets a fire move (which is only resisted by Heatran).

 

[Arcticblast]

What does everybody think of Pancham's move Parting Shot?

Parting Shot is a new move that Pancham can learn. The user lowers the target's Attack and Special Attack, then switches itself out for another Pokémon in the party.

It seems like this move would be great for any kind of team, honestly. Offensive teams could appreciate letting something set up, while defensive teams suddenly have a better way of gaining momentum than before.

 

[nose]

What does everybody think of Pancham's move Parting Shot?
It seems like this move would be great for any kind of team, honestly. Offensive teams could appreciate letting something set up, while defensive teams suddenly have a better way of gaining momentum than before.

With Pancham being the "Naughty" pokemon, it seems likely that he might get prankster. If so, it seems like parting shot would be a very viable move for volt turn cores, and looks like it might stop some sweepers easily.

 

[BrianFantana]

The 'Fairy' type actually looks quite possible. Pokemon Smash hinted at a new type for Sylveon, and one of the sources claiming it correctly called quite a lot of the recent info. If it's true then GF has thrown the metagame a Rare Bone (geddit). Which isn't wholly unlikely; it doesn't care about Smogon, sure, but it does have the interests of the official VGC metagame to consider, and Dragon creep is as much an issue there as here.

Fairy type, if it's real, could potentially hugely redress the typing balance in OU. It's supposedly weak to Steel and Poison, meaning Poison coverage could actually be a thing. Of course, it's not worth too much speculation yet since the only things claimed to have it so far are Sylveon, whom we know nothing else about (save that it probably follows the typical Eeveelution stat distribution pattern), and Mawile, who will supposedly be Steel/Fairy. Which is a fabulous typing, but unless it gets an evo and/or a majorly buffed movepool it's still unlikely to be a major metagame force; its pal Sableye has a similarly fantastic typing, but is only viable in OU by virtue of its ability.

But yeah, all in all here's hoping that everything that points to the Fairy type is accurate, that it's not a broken type itself and that Gen 6 becomes the balanced meta we're all hoping for!

As for Parting Shot, I quite like it in theory; it works both for and against setup sweepers. Trouble is, a lot of setup sweepers boost by +2, and Parting Shot is likely to be a mere -1 drop, since it would otherwise completely outclass Memento (not that it doesn't already). So I can see it becoming a bigger asset for setup sweepers than for stall, and hence facilitating another very offensive metagame.

 

[Bent1ey]

Parting Shot + Intimidate is kind of dope though.

 

[ChaosAkita]

One thing I would like to see in Gen VI is better Rest/Sleep Talk mechanics. Gen V completely ruined Rest, and I'd like to see that fixed. But in addition to that, I think Sleep Talk could be very good if it just didn't pick Rest. I don't know if people remember the old 100-turn games of Gen II. But I think there is more of a need for a force against offense now.

 

[Pocket]

If Fairy-type is a reality, I wonder if most, if not all, of the Pokemon in the Fairy Egg Group would be re-typed as Fairy? Coincidentally, Mawile's in this Egg Group, too.

Clefable, Granbull, Delcatty, Castform, Audino and Blissey becomes Normal / Fairy; Cherrim and Whimsicott become Grass / Fairy; and Manaphy becomes Water / Fairy ;d Maybe some legendary pixies like Mew, Azelf, and Shaymin will receive Fairy-typing, too~

Although the type effectiveness of a Fairy-typing is too good to be true, it is surprisingly convincing.

 

[FreeFormJazz]

Everyone used to dread stall and defense in DPP, now people are craving it. No one will ever be satisfyed with the current meta. I think gen 6 will just add more offensive powerhouses, and obviously as the series goes on and more pokes are added and the game becomes a lot more on who ever happens to bring the team with the upperhand for that particular game.

Please please do not get rid of team preview, I love the chess-like aspect of it.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

Everyone used to dread stall and defense in DPP

I never really got that impression tbh, and Gen IV was still very offensively orientated anyway, and I didn't hear people complaining about stall.

I think Gen III had the best balance (I think people play more offensive now but back when it was the current generation it was defensive, but not on an extreme level like Gen II).

Back then people used to go through the effort of connecting Focus Punch, max power Flail/Reversal, Belly Drum/Extremespeed (Linoone was OU once upon a time because of that!) and stuff like that. Granted, it was easier at the time for sure, but also more rewarding. Now you can just 1-2HKO everything with normal moves like Surf and Earthquake, so using those types of strategy aren't really worth it now, there's much easier ways to massive damage.

I said this before, but changing physical and special moves was the main thing that hurt defensive play. It's easier to defend against Gengar when it has no special STAB moves and uses stuff like Giga Drain. It's easier to defend against Salamence when the strongest physical move it uses is Hidden Power Flying and it's using stuff like Brick Break and Rock Slide. It's easier to defend against Tyranitar when it doesn't have physical dark-type moves.

Changing physical and special moves gave every Pokemon so many options offensively, and most Pokemon now have STAB moves of their strongest offense. I (and many others) knew before we'd even played Gen IV that it was going to be madly offensive. If they'd done it this way in Gen III it would've been offensive too.

I remember when I heard the news, and honestly the only Pokemon I thought of that was majorly hurt offensively was Sceptile, because he'd be losing out on special Leaf Blade, Thunderpunch and Crunch, but Energy Ball got invented so even for him it wasn't so bad in the end. But that was what turned everything into offensive powerhouses imo.

 

[Cyberkirby]

Hmm, too bad they never made a Ruby/Sapphire remake. On a different note, I'm praying that there will be an Electric/Fighting-Type Pokémon with a good movepool, Ability, and stats. Heck, as long as they take out Team Preview and don't introduce another Fire/Fighting-Type starter starter until Generation 10, it'll be worth it.

 

[Bent1ey]

If Fairy-type is a reality, I wonder if most, if not all, of the Pokemon in the Fairy Egg Group would be re-typed as Fairy? Coincidentally, Mawile's in this Egg Group, too.

Clefable, Granbull, Delcatty, Castform, Audino and Blissey becomes Normal / Fairy; Cherrim and Whimsicott become Grass / Fairy; and Manaphy becomes Water / Fairy ;d Maybe some legendary pixies like Mew, Azelf, and Shaymin will receive Fairy-typing, too~

Although the type effectiveness of a Fairy-typing is too good to be true, it is surprisingly convincing.

Granbull definitively needs a new typing to depart from Ursaring's shadow.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

The only thing that I didn't like is the type effectiveness related to Fairy-type. With only Fire and Psychic resisting it, and hitting Dragon super-effectively, Fairy will be probably one of the best, if not the best STAB to have. Being only hit super-effectively by Poison and Steel, two types that still have mediocre coverage and will probably not be used aside from STAB, and being immune to Dragon, the Fairy-type has the potential to be dominant type, at least on the competitive metagame.

Assuming that Fairy-type is a reality and that this is true, Fairy has the potential to be broken if there are powerful Pokémon from this type. I always wanted a new type, but not this way.

 

[Bent1ey]

Maybe I got my source wrong, but the original comment for fairy type didn't have the resistances to fairy attacks listed, only the types it resists and those it affects by super effective.

 

[melvni]

Maybe I got my source wrong, but the original comment for fairy type didn't have the resistances to fairy attacks listed, only the types it resists and those it affects by super effective.

The Pokebeach leak said that "it is weak to Poison and Steel, immune to Dragon, super effective against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, and Fire and Psychic-type Pokemon take half damage from it," so I think we know everything about it if the leak is accurate.

 

[Bent1ey]

The Pokebeach leak said that "it is weak to Poison and Steel, immune to Dragon, super effective against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, and Fire and Psychic-type Pokemon take half damage from it," so I think we know everything about it if the leak is accurate.

Can't find the original source, care to link me?

I just realized that Steel being super effective to Fairys make sense considering the magical lore in which iron affects magical beings.

 

[vyomov]

What? Weak to Poison and Steel, the best defensive types in the game and SE vs Dragon, the best offensive power in the game?
This is just screwed up
Not to mention Fairy/Ground would be plain broken.

 

[DarkBlazeR]

I'm honestly sceptical over the authenticity of the Fairy type. Whilst the concept is definitely plausible, it really does seem too good to be true. The fact that it seems to be a perfect balancer in terms of other types - making Steel and Poison into better offensive types, making Fire and Psychic into better defensive types and nerfing some of the current best offensive types (Dragon/Dark/Fighting) - shows real competitive awareness, which quite frankly is not typical of GF at all. Perhaps Fairy type is intended to balance the type chart, like Dark/Steel did in GSC? Or has someone been theorymoning? Only time will tell, but I still find it hard to believe at the moment without any official sources.

Heatran is sure to see some love this generation if Fairy type is true though :P

 

[HabibsHotDogs]

^ It is GF, psychic was incredibly overpowered in gen 1 then got completely shafted with the introduction of dark types and steels and THEN the introduction of excellent steels in every gen afterwards.

I think grass should resist fairy as well, it makes sense considering fairies rely on forests to survive and grass would easily "tolerate it" ie not very effective as fairies can hardly damage a forest. It makes more sense than fairies being terrified of being trapped in steel -.-

Heatran has been one of the best pokemon since its introduction lol, if rain was banned Heatran would probably easily be the #1, Probably around 25%+ usage lol.

If milotic gets fairy typing that'd be pretty awesome considering it'd make a great dragon check! That said, if true, dragons may become the next psychic (except psychic has excellent pokemon along with steel, water, dragon, ground and even fighting, hence why they all have 6+ pokes in OU)

 

[melvni]

Can't find the original source, care to link me?

I just realized that Steel being super effective to Fairys make sense considering the magical lore in which iron affects magical beings.

The original source is Pokebeach's home page if you scroll down to the part where it says 'Supposed ‘X’ and ‘Y’ Insider Information'. I'm pretty sure the guy who runs the site claims the information was told to him exclusively by a leaker so that's the closest you're going to get.

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

I think grass should resist fairy as well, it makes sense considering fairies rely on forests to survive and grass would easily "tolerate it" ie not very effective as fairies can hardly damage a forest. It makes more sense than fairies being terrified of being trapped in steel -.-

I also think that this would make sense. Fire, Psychic and Grass: Grass would even be a better defensive typing than it already is, because it is extremely overlooked as a defensive type because of its five weakness, despite having four excellent resistances. Not to mention that Celebi would probably be the best counter to Fairy-types, and Fairy-Ground would no longer have perfect coverage since it would be walled by Grass-types.

Fire could also be super-effective against Fairy. You all know what happens if we put fire on a fairy, and the place where she lives. In addition, the fire has a destructive nature that contrast with the benevolent nature of fairies.

Also, as I said, making Poison and Steel super-effective against Fairy will not help them being more used types on the metagame. They will still have poor coverage and will probably not be used outside STAB, and even then, some Pokémon will prefer to use moves that while unSTABed, have better coverage. To solve this coverage problem, they should remove some resistances to Steel or Poison, although this does not make sense. Also, I do not see how Steel can be super-effective against Fairy; this does not make sense. Poison is plausible since poison affects fairies on a negative way and destroy their habitat.

 

[alexwolf]

The Pokebeach leak said that "it is weak to Poison and Steel, immune to Dragon, super effective against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, and Fire and Psychic-type Pokemon take half damage from it," so I think we know everything about it if the leak is accurate.

Well we still don't know what are the resistances of Fairy-types, assuming they do have some, as i find it difficult to believe that it will only have 1 immunity (although that one immunity is huge).

 

[ciaranroy]

The only thing I want from this new meta is for Weavile to get Technician. Then I will be happy forever.

Also Darmanitan to get V-Create