It's like the problem physical Water-types have. With no basic physical attack, physical Fire-types struggle in the early-game.
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Pokemon that disappointed you in-game despite looking good initially?
- Thread starter DrumstickGaming
- Start date
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
Flame Wheel and Flame Charge both make good first physical attacks to give Fire types after the mandatory "stuck with Ember" period, but they don't bother half the time which is a little strange.
You're in the 30s five minutes into XY anyway, so I've never really thought about those two as disappointing.
My experience with the bird is much better. With the early access to Roost, Swords Dance, Aerial Ace and Return, it can break many opponents. In the late game, move reminder in Dendemille allows Talonflame to sweep reliably pretty often.
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
R.I.P.
My White 2 Emboar.
2021 - 2021
I dragged you along even though you're only good for Fire moves by virtue of being stuck with fucking Arm Thrust as your best Fighting level up move, and I didn't use you once in the League. Why do they not give me the Brick Break TM in this game without doing a bunch of PWT that I can't be bothered to run?
My White 2 Emboar.
2021 - 2021
I dragged you along even though you're only good for Fire moves by virtue of being stuck with fucking Arm Thrust as your best Fighting level up move, and I didn't use you once in the League. Why do they not give me the Brick Break TM in this game without doing a bunch of PWT that I can't be bothered to run?
I'm pretty mixed when it comes to Duraludon.
When playing Sword and Shield blind, I spent literally two hours in the last route of the game hunting for a Duraludon as I really wanted to use one in my playthrough.
And then I found out that you could just trade for one in the following town. I could have spent less time raising up a Snom and evolving it than refreshing Route 10 for a 1% chance. (Not like I knew that either since I had no idea how Snom evolved in the first place).
And then you realize that Duraludon's movepool is mostly physical. It has a respectable 95 base attack, but like... It doesn't learn a special attack until Level 54 which is Flash Cannon.
THEN you find out that most of the battles in Wyndon either hit it on its super effective side (ground and fighting) or on its vastly weaker special defense.
I just don't get why a Pokemon featured in promotional material the way it was, was shafted so badly? Two borderline useless abilities, a very strange level up movepool, very rare and found in the last stretches of the game, and doesn't even do all that well in said battles. You pretty much needed an Assault Vest and a bunch of TRs that 90% of blind playthroughs wouldn't have to really make it work.
When playing Sword and Shield blind, I spent literally two hours in the last route of the game hunting for a Duraludon as I really wanted to use one in my playthrough.
And then I found out that you could just trade for one in the following town. I could have spent less time raising up a Snom and evolving it than refreshing Route 10 for a 1% chance. (Not like I knew that either since I had no idea how Snom evolved in the first place).
And then you realize that Duraludon's movepool is mostly physical. It has a respectable 95 base attack, but like... It doesn't learn a special attack until Level 54 which is Flash Cannon.
THEN you find out that most of the battles in Wyndon either hit it on its super effective side (ground and fighting) or on its vastly weaker special defense.
I just don't get why a Pokemon featured in promotional material the way it was, was shafted so badly? Two borderline useless abilities, a very strange level up movepool, very rare and found in the last stretches of the game, and doesn't even do all that well in said battles. You pretty much needed an Assault Vest and a bunch of TRs that 90% of blind playthroughs wouldn't have to really make it work.
I feel a bit relieved to find out someone else made the same mistake I did.
I don't remember having as much of a disappointment towards Duraludon, but then again, I was running a party of (then) 14 Pokémon which were being rotated on a regular basis, so it didn't get many battles.
Hammer Arm is an option via relearner as Emboar. I mean I want Brick Break and Hammer Arm is a guide dang it kinda, but it’s better than Arm Thrust.
Regardless though, Emboar just kinda sucks in both games. It’s like a B tier but it’s nothing special when both the Fighting types and the Fire types of Unova are just so much more specialized (and mostly speedy, at least in the Fire type department).
NuttyRabbit
Banned deucer.
When I was doing my Sapphire nuzlocke, I had made it to Flannery and realized that I should probably train up a Water type to beat her team and hey, I had Lombre, so surely that'd work!
And that's when I learned that it gets no Water moves by level up, is weak as hell, and worst of all, frail as hell, getting knocked out by a wild Machop during grinding.
Thankfully I quickly replaced it with Tentacool, who proceeded to be one of the MVPs and carry me through Flannery and a good chunk of the game
And that's when I learned that it gets no Water moves by level up, is weak as hell, and worst of all, frail as hell, getting knocked out by a wild Machop during grinding.
Thankfully I quickly replaced it with Tentacool, who proceeded to be one of the MVPs and carry me through Flannery and a good chunk of the game
CTNC
Doesn't know how to attack
I'm not the first guy to say Togepi in Soul Silver, but I wanted to see how good the move Wish would be. It's good, but it's only good on a Pokemon that you use and Togetic can't do anything else. It can take hits, but without TMs, all it has to strike back is Extrasensory, Metronome, and Sweet Kiss until Level 33 Ancient Power, The Eighth Gym's Town's Move Reminder for Magical Leaf, or Level 46 Double-Edge. At least you can buy Fire Blast and you'll want the Fly HM on someone. You gan buy a Shiny Stone from the Pokeathlon most days of the week after the National Dex, but too late to make up for being terrible for an entire region.
Speaking of the Pokeathlon, I think I'd be talking about Soul Silver Vulpix too if the Pokeathlon wasn't selling Fire Stones the day after I caught her. Ninetales was awesome! The other stone evolutions that suck on the original Gold and Silver because of nearly impossible to get stones are probably just as good if you get to the Pokeathlon at the right time and you don't mind spending time on minigames, but the right time thing is a pretty big if if you don't know ahead of time.
My experience with Tentacool wasn't very long. He was a low Level from being from an Old Rod and he got OHKOed when I had him out for Exp in a Double Battle... by my own Lombre's Nature Power that I thought would be Mud Shot on the beach instead of Earthquake... On the bright side, she KOed both of the opponent's Pokemon and earned the nickname Slayer.
Edit: typo
Speaking of the Pokeathlon, I think I'd be talking about Soul Silver Vulpix too if the Pokeathlon wasn't selling Fire Stones the day after I caught her. Ninetales was awesome! The other stone evolutions that suck on the original Gold and Silver because of nearly impossible to get stones are probably just as good if you get to the Pokeathlon at the right time and you don't mind spending time on minigames, but the right time thing is a pretty big if if you don't know ahead of time.
Lombre's disappointment gets even better! You can't even get a Water Stone until you get to the guy that trades shards for stones on Route 124! :D
My experience with Tentacool wasn't very long. He was a low Level from being from an Old Rod and he got OHKOed when I had him out for Exp in a Double Battle... by my own Lombre's Nature Power that I thought would be Mud Shot on the beach instead of Earthquake... On the bright side, she KOed both of the opponent's Pokemon and earned the nickname Slayer.
Edit: typo
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NuttyRabbit
Banned deucer.
A few years ago, I decided to play through Pokemon Emerald with the one starter I hadn't used: Treecko. I remember trying Emerald as a kid and getting stuck with it pretty early but I didn't remember how or why.It didn't take long for me to remember. The Treecko line's strongest move by level up until level 29 is PURSUIT. With HMs it's Cut and with TMs its a 5 hit Bullet Seed. So its power output until mid game is pretty miserable, and it's only accentuated by its poor defensive type and generally middling matchup vs most major fights before the point where it usually evolves.
Now granted, when it finally gets Leaf Blade and becomes Sceptile, it is pretty strong, but it evolves around the time you fight Winona and while it is damn strong for the stretch from Tate and Liza until endgame and gets access to solid moves by then, it comes online too late for me to really like it, especially when compared to its more consistent counterparts.
Not bad, just pretty underwhelming
An odd quirk to Sceptile in Gen III is that it's the only pure Grass-Type family in the game (plus Bellossom who becomes one), so its coverage is pretty limited compared with what you generally want to see from a starter. As you say, it relies on Pursuit for a long time, but Nuzleaf/Shiftry and later Cacturne exist if you want to use a Grass/Dark-Type Pokémon. The Lotad family is a very interesting typing for a family (though as noted above on this page, doesn't really make use of its Water-Type until late in the game), and Breloom in particular is a great version of Sceptile because it evolves early, and learns Fighting-Type attacks naturally and gets STAB on them, where Sceptile needs TMs for basic coverage and often that ends up being Brick Break / Focus Punch anyway. And then if you want a Grass-Type with Aerial Ace, Tropius is there and gets STAB too. And for one with Rock-Type coverage (Sceptile does get Rock Tomb), Cradily is right there.
It didn't take long for me to remember. The Treecko line's strongest move by level up until level 29 is PURSUIT. With HMs it's Cut and with TMs its a 5 hit Bullet Seed. So its power output until mid game is pretty miserable, and it's only accentuated by its poor defensive type and generally middling matchup vs most major fights before the point where it usually evolves.
Now granted, when it finally gets Leaf Blade and becomes Sceptile, it is pretty strong, but it evolves around the time you fight Winona and while it is damn strong for the stretch from Tate and Liza until endgame and gets access to solid moves by then, it comes online too late for me to really like it, especially when compared to its more consistent counterparts.
Not bad, just pretty underwhelming
I'd go so far as to say that Sceptile is actually the worst Grass-Type Pokémon in Hoenn besides the Grass/Poison-Type Pokémon (Roselia, Vileplume, probably Bellossom too). The only thing it has going for it that others don't are Dragon Claw, Fury Cutter, and Iron Tail, and neither of those are particularly great moves, so it sorta becomes a jack of all trades. But compared with Blaziken and Swampert, and almost every other Grass-Type in Hoenn, it leaves it a clear inferior option.
Eternatus.
It was a legendary, so I thought, sure, it'll be great!
But it was SO HARD TO GRIND so I just gave up instead of doing raids, and went into the battle with a L70 Eternatus.
I lost.
Then I replace it with my Gyarados and I win the first time!
It was a legendary, so I thought, sure, it'll be great!
But it was SO HARD TO GRIND so I just gave up instead of doing raids, and went into the battle with a L70 Eternatus.
I lost.
Then I replace it with my Gyarados and I win the first time!
NuttyRabbit
Banned deucer.
Excellent points all around, but I wanna actually defend the others you brought up for "the worst" since I've used them.
I've used Vileplume before and its decent bulk in conjunction with powders, poison STAB, and reliable recovery (in the form of Moonlight) can make it a surprisingly sturdy and hard hitting mon. Sure it lacks the powerful Grass STAB of Sceptile (unless you go with Petal Dance) but honestly it can hold its own quite well. Also a primo Pokemon catcher. Doesn't quite come online until you get a Leaf Stone though which kinda sucks, but truly comes online a bit earlier than Sceptile
Roselia, while not nearly as tanky as Vileplume or as strong as Sceptile, comes online far earlier than both thanks to decent stats and relatively quick access to decent Grass STAB in Magical Leaf (which it gets earlier than Grovyle gets Leaf Blade), Stun Spore/Grasswhistle, and most interestingly, Growth, which gives it a way to boost its Grass STAB in a way almost no other Grass can (other than iirc Nuzleaf but that doesn't get STAB leveling up)
Bellossom is probably the only one I'd really give is worse than Sceptile owing to the lack of a Poison typing and coming even LATER, but having access to similar moves as Vileplume does stop it from being totally worthless
Are either of these great? No, but imo the fact they come online earlier and have more general versatility makes them a smidge better.
I'm gonna put a reverse one here if that's ok.
PIDGEY.
For one that disappointed me, Dubwool. Really poor coverage, bland type, but neat design.
It's stats are actually pretty good, 490, especially when it evolves a little after the first gym.
Moveset isn't great, Tackle for STAB until Level 21. Heck, Tackle is your only ATTACK until Level 16!
PIDGEY.
Yes. Pidgey. You'd think it would suck past like, Bugsy, especially when it evolves around then. Well you're wrong. I've been doing a challenge run with only Pidgey, and WOW it's not bad.
251 BST is NOT good, and it's super frail, with a horrible typing. It's basically weak to Whitney, Jasmine, and Bryce.
But, with some grinding up to Level 33 for Wing Attack it 2HKO'd Whitney's Miltank, swept Morty like they were nothing, and barely noticed Chuck. After it got Air Slash at Level 49, Jasmine was still hard, but as long as she missed Iron Tail her Steelix was easy. Bryce just needed some levels, he was easier than Jasmine.
Clair actually was probably harder than anyone. Hydro Pump off Kingdra, who usually outsped due to Thunder Waves earlier, hit really hard. With Roost it only took until Level 70.
Now usually, the Elite 4 is WAY harder than the gym leaders. Nah. Will almost always got OHKO'd aside from Slowbro. Koga was OHKOs aside from Muk, Crobat oddly, and Forretress. Bruno was the easiest, only Onix wasn't OHKO'd.
However, Karen was way harder. Even at Level 100 (not for her, for Lance), Gengar and Umbreon don't consistently get OHKO'd
Finally, Lance. So I did half a dozen tried without Mirror Move, not possible. Aerodactyl's Rock Slide does almost 3/4 HP. However multiple times, using Mirror Move and with good RNG, I have made it to his final Dragonite. As long as Blizzard and Thunder miss Pidgey, they become a 1-2HKO with Mirror Move.
Unfortunately, as of now, I don't know if you can beat HeartGold with only One Pidgey.
251 BST is NOT good, and it's super frail, with a horrible typing. It's basically weak to Whitney, Jasmine, and Bryce.
But, with some grinding up to Level 33 for Wing Attack it 2HKO'd Whitney's Miltank, swept Morty like they were nothing, and barely noticed Chuck. After it got Air Slash at Level 49, Jasmine was still hard, but as long as she missed Iron Tail her Steelix was easy. Bryce just needed some levels, he was easier than Jasmine.
Clair actually was probably harder than anyone. Hydro Pump off Kingdra, who usually outsped due to Thunder Waves earlier, hit really hard. With Roost it only took until Level 70.
Now usually, the Elite 4 is WAY harder than the gym leaders. Nah. Will almost always got OHKO'd aside from Slowbro. Koga was OHKOs aside from Muk, Crobat oddly, and Forretress. Bruno was the easiest, only Onix wasn't OHKO'd.
However, Karen was way harder. Even at Level 100 (not for her, for Lance), Gengar and Umbreon don't consistently get OHKO'd
Finally, Lance. So I did half a dozen tried without Mirror Move, not possible. Aerodactyl's Rock Slide does almost 3/4 HP. However multiple times, using Mirror Move and with good RNG, I have made it to his final Dragonite. As long as Blizzard and Thunder miss Pidgey, they become a 1-2HKO with Mirror Move.
Unfortunately, as of now, I don't know if you can beat HeartGold with only One Pidgey.
For one that disappointed me, Dubwool. Really poor coverage, bland type, but neat design.
It's stats are actually pretty good, 490, especially when it evolves a little after the first gym.
Moveset isn't great, Tackle for STAB until Level 21. Heck, Tackle is your only ATTACK until Level 16!
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I put mine at the front of every battle in Wyndon so I was able to get a good judge of its "viability". It still held its own, but I expected more from a literal endgame Pokemon for the amount of
Perhaps it's too early to voice my disappointment with this doggo, but I will do it anyways because it had some selling points.
I am playing Pokemon XD again, trying out another row of Pokemon I didn't use.
I used this dog because it came as with a Jolly Nature and has decent start up moves in Dig and Poison Fang. But even after evolving and surpassing a lot of Pokemon where I am right now, it can't deal any significant damage.
Lombre has lower defense, right? Why can't I 2HKO with Poison Fang?
It's not completely useless tho. Intimidate shuffling does help weakening certain Pokemon so others can pick up. Especially since I run the games to catch all Shadow Pokemon, Intimidate is helpful. But most of the time, my Charm Numble does a better job (and that thing is slower).
I am pretty sure once I taught it Shadow Ball once I finished the Team Snaggam hideout, it will improve.
But honestly I wonder if that's even worth it.
I have a pre-Evo of Sharpedo in my team, and with just level 23 it can handle far more Pokemon since it has several targets weak to it's STAB. It has already Crunch too.
I considered to put the EXP-Share on it, but it doesn't seem to learn anything useful. Crunch will be weakened by the Special Attack lowering Jolly-Nature and I don't have any useful Normal Type move to teach it per TM. Tho I could buy Hyper Beam but... eh...
Perhaps I will use the EXP-Share since bulky Intimidate may come in clutch.
Edit: fixed the reasoning why Crunch won't be useful.
Edit 2: Poison Fang has 50 base power? o.O
Edit 3: Even at level 42, Dig can't OHKO an Electrode level 34. That also shows that nerving Dig to a 60 Base Power move was not a good idea to begin with. We are still talking about an Electrode.
Edit 4: I risked defeating the Shadow Magcargo with a Double Super Effective Dig, and it survived. In that case it was convinient, but if it were against something I needed to OHKO, it would be utterly embarrassing. Being disappointing offensively came in handy for once.
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Actually, Dark moves are Special in that game as it was still part of Gen 3, so Crunch is Special.
Yeah I read that. Jolly lowers Special Attack. He said Attack, hence my confusion.
My mistake.
My mistake.
Ariados. Not that I expected him to be OP or anything, but 90 Attack isn't bad and you had the TMs for Dig, Sludge Bomb, and Shadow Ball ingame. Turns out Ariados can't learn Dig outside breeding (???) or Shadow Ball at all, all he gets is Sludge Bomb, and his level-up movepool is dismal.
This is all in Pokemon Crystal by the way. Overall, Ariados didn't even fulfill my lowest expectations, and this makes me realize if you wanna use the guy, you should just catch one from immediately south of Ecruteak at a higher level and already evolved from Spinarak to do more good.
Disappointing is pushing it here admittedly (and they were great mons in fact), but Espeon's late evolution from Eevee, Quagsire's lack of sturdy bulk, and Lanturn's inability to use Ice-type attacks and low speed (enough to be outsped and KOed by a Gyarados boss) were kinda annoying lol.
This is all in Pokemon Crystal by the way. Overall, Ariados didn't even fulfill my lowest expectations, and this makes me realize if you wanna use the guy, you should just catch one from immediately south of Ecruteak at a higher level and already evolved from Spinarak to do more good.
Disappointing is pushing it here admittedly (and they were great mons in fact), but Espeon's late evolution from Eevee, Quagsire's lack of sturdy bulk, and Lanturn's inability to use Ice-type attacks and low speed (enough to be outsped and KOed by a Gyarados boss) were kinda annoying lol.
The Mind Electric
Calming if you look at it right.
Ariados can do well against Ghost users like Morty in HG/SS because it gets Shadow Sneak and Sucker Punch, for whatever that's worth. Those moves being priority also theoretically allows it to beat Psychic types that it would normally lose to because it's slow as fuck and has a secondary Poison type. It can also get Dig via TM in that game. Still not great, but at least you have options.
True, he should be much better in HG/SS.
Tangrowth (Pt)
I hate to do him like this but Tangrowth in Platinum disappointed me. I guess I expected more from a Pokémon with a higher BST than every starter till that point, except Swampert with whom it's tied. It even has a good ability in Chlorophyll.
Tangrowth really puts into perspective how gimped Grass types are compared to Fire and Water. Even a Pokémon with outstanding stats like Tangrowth ends up under performing because it's just weak to too many types. It's made worse by the fact that it has bad matchups against many of Team Galactic's most common Pokémon such as Bronzor, Croagunk, Golbat, Houndour, Murkrow and Stunky, all of which you have a litany of battles with towards the latter part of the game. None of its matchups versus Cynthia are good either since Milotic out speeds and KO's it with Ice Beam due to its low Special Defense. Every other matchup is either neutral or bad.
Perhaps it would have performed better in Hoenn with the large number of Water types in the late game, but in its native region it underwhelms unfortunately.
I hate to do him like this but Tangrowth in Platinum disappointed me. I guess I expected more from a Pokémon with a higher BST than every starter till that point, except Swampert with whom it's tied. It even has a good ability in Chlorophyll.
Tangrowth really puts into perspective how gimped Grass types are compared to Fire and Water. Even a Pokémon with outstanding stats like Tangrowth ends up under performing because it's just weak to too many types. It's made worse by the fact that it has bad matchups against many of Team Galactic's most common Pokémon such as Bronzor, Croagunk, Golbat, Houndour, Murkrow and Stunky, all of which you have a litany of battles with towards the latter part of the game. None of its matchups versus Cynthia are good either since Milotic out speeds and KO's it with Ice Beam due to its low Special Defense. Every other matchup is either neutral or bad.
Perhaps it would have performed better in Hoenn with the large number of Water types in the late game, but in its native region it underwhelms unfortunately.
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Vine Whip being its only good Grass move for a while forces you to TM Giga Drain on too.
I can say with confidence it's a lot better in BW2. While kinda late, Giga Drain and evolution come quickly and while never a world beater I didn't regret using mine either. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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