[Online Competition] ~Spooky~ Cup (Halloween 2015)

[cant say]

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more Drapion on Showdown. Is it generally outclassed by Scolipede? Scolipede is faster and slightly stronger, but I'm finding Drapion's better defensive bulk, STAB Knock Off useful, and lack of a Fire weakness useful.

What natures are people running on Hydreigon and Volcarona? I've been using max Speed/Sp. Attack Timid for both, since both are popular and winning the speed tie is important, but I'm starting to think that a bulkier Modest version (at least for Quiver Dance Volcarona) may be better.

I tried Drapion out for a bit thinking the same thing, but found him to actually be quite frail even with max HP and an Assault Vest. He's also outsped by all the massive threats and has no recovery so he died too easily. STAB Knock Off is cool but only really allows one strong hit against each mon, and Poison doesn't hit anything super-effectively except Granbull who intimidates you anyway so his damage output is kinda low. I honestly think his only niche is bopping a Minimizing Drifblim with Keen Eye + Knock Off, so if you're really scared of that then use him I guess lol.

I haven't been using Hydra myself, but I'm running Timid on Volcarona to get the jump on all non-scarf Hydra. I've wanted to try and fit Quiver Dance onto its moveset but I just can't. There's only been a couple battles where I've actually wished I had it though so I'm not too worried. I'm not sure a bulky spread would really benefit it though since everyone is packing random Rock-type moves just to bop it so I can't imagine it surviving too many things unless you run a max phys def spread and try getting Simple onto it to get +2/+2/+2 and a Charti Berry, lol. Bulky Volc is really only good for a Rage Powder or two to help its partner before it goes down, not setting itself up imo...

--

Something I've been trying to make work is Weezing, Poison + Levitate is great defensively and Stockpile makes him even harder to take down. He's then able to WoW stuff and whittle things down with Sludge Bomb. Works great for crippling things like Scolipede and Crobat while your partner hides behind a Protect. He's a bit passive for Doubles and leads to a lot of double-targeting of its teammates so it can be dealt with later, but he usually puts in some solid work for me.

 

[6tennis]

Honestly, just go on PS! and slap together Hydreigon, Volcarona, Scolipede, Crobat, Granbull, and Weavile and see how you go. Those guys are all super good here and the majority of teams look like that anyway, and it'll allow you to test and see what works here, and you can swap stuff out as you go until you have your own team...

Basically hit the nail on the head here. imo this format is really linear, which is odd because it seems like there should be a lot of anti-meta pokemon (i.e. counters to Hydreigon and Volcarona) but there surprisingly aren't too many. That's why dominant metagame threats are running rampant with nothing to stop them.

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more Drapion on Showdown. Is it generally outclassed by Scolipede? Scolipede is faster and slightly stronger, but I'm finding Drapion's better defensive bulk, STAB Knock Off useful, and lack of a Fire weakness useful.

What natures are people running on Hydreigon and Volcarona? I've been using max Speed/Sp. Attack Timid for both, since both are popular and winning the speed tie is important, but I'm starting to think that a bulkier Modest version (at least for Quiver Dance Volcarona) may be better.

Does your team have Tailwind support? If it does, I think that you can get by with Modest nature. If not, run Timid so you can outspeed the mirror matchup.

 

[Moody Magikarp]

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more Drapion on Showdown. Is it generally outclassed by Scolipede? Scolipede is faster and slightly stronger, but I'm finding Drapion's better defensive bulk, STAB Knock Off useful, and lack of a Fire weakness useful.

What natures are people running on Hydreigon and Volcarona? I've been using max Speed/Sp. Attack Timid for both, since both are popular and winning the speed tie is important, but I'm starting to think that a bulkier Modest version (at least for Quiver Dance Volcarona) may be better.

I may go with Rash on my Hydra, especially if I decide to breed on Head Smash.

I'm still on the fence because of the 80% accuracy though as a miss against Volcarona is as good as a suicide note.

 

[MonkeyWarlock]

I tried Drapion out for a bit thinking the same thing, but found him to actually be quite frail even with max HP and an Assault Vest. He's also outsped by all the massive threats and has no recovery so he died too easily. STAB Knock Off is cool but only really allows one strong hit against each mon, and Poison doesn't hit anything super-effectively except Granbull who intimidates you anyway so his damage output is kinda low. I honestly think his only niche is bopping a Minimizing Drifblim with Keen Eye + Knock Off, so if you're really scared of that then use him I guess lol.

I haven't been using Hydra myself, but I'm running Timid on Volcarona to get the jump on all non-scarf Hydra. I've wanted to try and fit Quiver Dance onto its moveset but I just can't. There's only been a couple battles where I've actually wished I had it though so I'm not too worried. I'm not sure a bulky spread would really benefit it though since everyone is packing random Rock-type moves just to bop it so I can't imagine it surviving too many things unless you run a max phys def spread and try getting Simple onto it to get +2/+2/+2 and a Charti Berry, lol. Bulky Volc is really only good for a Rage Powder or two to help its partner before it goes down, not setting itself up imo...

--

Something I've been trying to make work is Weezing, Poison + Levitate is great defensively and Stockpile makes him even harder to take down. He's then able to WoW stuff and whittle things down with Sludge Bomb. Works great for crippling things like Scolipede and Crobat while your partner hides behind a Protect. He's a bit passive for Doubles and leads to a lot of double-targeting of its teammates so it can be dealt with later, but he usually puts in some solid work for me.

Yeah, Drapion's low speed definitely hurts, and I suppose it doesn't have enough bulk to make up for it.

What moveset have you been running on Volcarona instead? Bug Buzz/Protect/Heat Wave and...Tailwind? Rage Powder?

Weezing sounds interesting. It's easy to end up with a team of frail offense (Weavile, Hydreigon, Volcarona, sadly Granbull, etc.) so I've been looking for something that can actually switch in and take a hit if need be. So far I've found only found Aegislash for that, as Rotom appliances don't have too many resistances. Any other ideas for more defensively inclined Pokemon?

 

[cant say]

Yeah, Drapion's low speed definitely hurts, and I suppose it doesn't have enough bulk to make up for it.

What moveset have you been running on Volcarona instead? Bug Buzz/Protect/Heat Wave and...Tailwind? Rage Powder?

Weezing sounds interesting. It's easy to end up with a team of frail offense (Weavile, Hydreigon, Volcarona, sadly Granbull, etc.) so I've been looking for something that can actually switch in and take a hit if need be. So far I've found only found Aegislash for that, as Rotom appliances don't have too many resistances. Any other ideas for more defensively inclined Pokemon?

I've been running Sash Volc with Bug Buzz / Fiery Dance / HP Rock / Protect, I really like it actually.

Sableye can so the same as Weezing but has reliable recovery and priority, but trades Def boosting for SpA. I think I'm gonna put him on my team alongside Weezing actually. There aren't really any good defensive choices here (hence the hyper offense) unfortunately. Rotom-W can go specially defensive and use Light Screen, Electro Web / Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp etc...

 

[orangeflood]

I don't seem to be having fun with this format anymore. Probably because I've losing lately after many earlier wins. Seems like all the battles are won at the picking stage.

 

[Tonio]

Which spread do you use on Volcarona ? I'm using a 164/0-/252/4/4/84+ one but I don't know if it's the better one. I want to run a bulky version which can still hit

 

[Korados]

Honestly, just go on PS! and slap together Hydreigon, Volcarona, Scolipede, Crobat, Granbull, and Weavile and see how you go. Those guys are all super good here and the majority of teams look like that anyway, and it'll allow you to test and see what works here, and you can swap stuff out as you go until you have your own team...

Thank you for the tip but I don't know what to do with them. I'm really completely new to competitive so I don't have this "eye" for finding out the right movesets and such.

 

[6tennis]

Thank you for the tip but I don't know what to do with them. I'm really completely new to competitive so I don't have this "eye" for finding out the right movesets and such.

The Smogon sets are really reliable. I suggest you use those. Some mons even have Doubles analyses.

 

[MonkeyWarlock]

Thank you for the tip but I don't know what to do with them. I'm really completely new to competitive so I don't have this "eye" for finding out the right movesets and such.

The Pokemon Global Link statistics are quite helpful - check out their Doubles statistics to see what moves/natures are most common.

I also recommend checking out Nugget Bridge. Although they don't have individual Pokemon analyses, you can check out Team Reports that use those Pokemon to see how they work in a team - Ex. http://nuggetbridge.com/tag/hydreigon

 

[DiscordedMuffins]

I tried Drapion out for a bit thinking the same thing, but found him to actually be quite frail even with max HP and an Assault Vest. He's also outsped by all the massive threats and has no recovery so he died too easily. STAB Knock Off is cool but only really allows one strong hit against each mon, and Poison doesn't hit anything super-effectively except Granbull who intimidates you anyway so his damage output is kinda low. I honestly think his only niche is bopping a Minimizing Drifblim with Keen Eye + Knock Off, so if you're really scared of that then use him I guess lol.

I haven't been using Hydra myself, but I'm running Timid on Volcarona to get the jump on all non-scarf Hydra. I've wanted to try and fit Quiver Dance onto its moveset but I just can't. There's only been a couple battles where I've actually wished I had it though so I'm not too worried. I'm not sure a bulky spread would really benefit it though since everyone is packing random Rock-type moves just to bop it so I can't imagine it surviving too many things unless you run a max phys def spread and try getting Simple onto it to get +2/+2/+2 and a Charti Berry, lol. Bulky Volc is really only good for a Rage Powder or two to help its partner before it goes down, not setting itself up imo...

--

Something I've been trying to make work is Weezing, Poison + Levitate is great defensively and Stockpile makes him even harder to take down. He's then able to WoW stuff and whittle things down with Sludge Bomb. Works great for crippling things like Scolipede and Crobat while your partner hides behind a Protect. He's a bit passive for Doubles and leads to a lot of double-targeting of its teammates so it can be dealt with later, but he usually puts in some solid work for me.

I've been using my Drapion set, which I also use in other formats which is the lesser used Sniper, Scope lens set with the Moves Cross Poison and Night slash, along with protect and swords dance for when I get the opportunity. It really catches people off guard when they expect a wall, and get a strong Offense mon in return. It can really catch out a few of the more used mons in the Meta with Crits doing 2X normal damage due to sniper, and the combination of Scope lens and High crit ratio moves bringing the likelyhood of crits up by a decent amount. I haven't ran calcs but it works effeciently in most of the battles I've brought it to, being able to do a considerable amount of damage to mons that you may have been barely able to scratch previously like with Eviolite bulky Dusclops. a Night slash without any SD's up is a garuenteed 2HKO.
Just something maybe worth considering, especially in tailwind.

 

[Korados]

Okay, thank you for your help! I will see if I can set up a team!

 

[Moody Magikarp]

I don't seem to be having fun with this format anymore. Probably because I've losing lately after many earlier wins. Seems like all the battles are won at the picking stage.

Agreed. I'll still play it since I've went through tons of trouble breeding for it, but I'm actually looking forward to the Scrappy tournament more at this point mainly because the choices are much less linear.

When this tour starts, I'll see if I have a strat that can win me close to 30 games, but if I start losing like I did in the Pika Cup, I'll probably just quit and start fully breeding for the next one as I have a decent team some what made out for it already.

I'm just curious if the actual Spooky Cup ends up how it's looking so far on Showdown i.e. a Rock Slide fest.

 

[LLewis]

My Spooky Cup team is this: http://pastebin.com/NEBCALqB

Suggest?
Opinions?

I had no way to test it on Pokémon Showdown! D:

 

[6tennis]

My Spooky Cup team is this: http://pastebin.com/NEBCALqB

Suggest?
Opinions?

I had no way to test it on Pokémon Showdown! D:

From taking a quick glance at it, here's what I got:
Hydreigon gets Head Smash to OHKO Charti Berry Volcarona, so go ahead and make use of that. Looking at your Volcarona, Fiery Dance is a useful move, but it has a lot more utility in Singles. Heat Wave is a much better idea in this competition, imo. I'm liking that Liepard, but I think that it could use Thunder Wave to maximize the potential of SwagWave. Maybe even put in Foul Play, if you want to go all-out. What does Parasect do for your team? I understand a redirector is useful, but why Mental Herb? And Parasect's typing doesn't do it any favors, what with all the Volcarona and Crobat running around. I highly recommend running Aegislash for Wide Guard support. Everything else looks great, nice team!

 

[LLewis]

From taking a quick glance at it, here's what I got:
Hydreigon gets Head Smash to OHKO Charti Berry Volcarona, so go ahead and make use of that. Looking at your Volcarona, Fiery Dance is a useful move, but it has a lot more utility in Singles. Heat Wave is a much better idea in this competition, imo. I'm liking that Liepard, but I think that it could use Thunder Wave to maximize the potential of SwagWave. Maybe even put in Foul Play, if you want to go all-out. What does Parasect do for your team? I understand a redirector is useful, but why Mental Herb? And Parasect's typing doesn't do it any favors, what with all the Volcarona and Crobat running around. I highly recommend running Aegislash for Wide Guard support. Everything else looks great, nice team!

I saw days ago people with Play Rough Liepard for hit Pokémon Dark (like Sableye)
Uh, Heat Wave > Fiery Dance and Head Smash > Rock Slide, yes!

I chose Parasect because I was searching a Wide Guard Support and Parasect had Spore and Rage Powder, good moves.
I will replace it with Aegislash! :D

http://pastebin.com/HgXgyNY6

 

[6tennis]

I saw days ago people with Play Rough Liepard for hit Pokémon Dark (like Sableye)
Uh, Heat Wave > Fiery Dance and Head Smash > Rock Slide, yes!

I chose Parasect because I was searching a Wide Guard Support and Parasect had Spore and Rage Powder, good moves.
I will replace it with Aegislash! :D

http://pastebin.com/HgXgyNY6

Interesting idea on the Liepard. Can take out Hydreigon as well. Though, for a Fairy type I went with Granbull, has a lot of bulk and good support moves. It benefits greatly from Tailwind, which you have on your team already. But from the looks of it, your team is pretty full, so keep it if u want.

Edit: lol, read what Assault Vest does. Go with Lefties on the Aegislash.

 

[cant say]

What do you mean you had no way to practice on PS? Just go on there and make this team and play it..?

Liepard @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 4 Atk / 100 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Swagger
- Play Rough
- Encore

96 Def gives the same stat as 92 so you were wasting 4 EVs, I stole them from attack and put them in Def to make it efficient.

Krookodile @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Looks ok, make sure you're able to deal with Volcarona otherwise it dies..

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Rock Slide Head Smash
- Flash Cannon

Rock Slide doesn't even OHKO offensive (no bulk) Volacrona so don't bother with it. Scarf is a little weak so I would consider Draco Meteor but it isn't necessary..

Aegislash @ Assault Vest (????)
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 172 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe (what does this achieve? Also why modest?)
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard (does not work with Assault Vest!)
- King's Shield (^^^ same!)

Ok this is a bit weird. Is the AV to survive Hydra Dark Pulse's..? You can't use King's Shield or Wide Guard while holding it coz they aren't direct attack moves. Shadow Ball is almost useless here coz of all the Dark-types so I would use Sacred Sword instead (obviously can't use Modest then). Overall, needs some work!

Volcarona @ Charti Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 68 SpA / 76 SpD / 108 Spe (what does this achieve?)
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Protect
- Heat Wave Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

Go back to Fiery Dance (or Flame Thrower / Fire Blast) coz otherwise Wide Guard Aegislash walls your team pretty handily. What does the EV spread achieve, I much prefer Timid for beating any non-Scarf Hydriegon (Timid Specs / Life Orb exists, albeit rare). Quiver Dance is kinda hard to set up here imo, have you considered a Hidden Power or Giga Drain?

Crobat @ Focus Sash Mental Herb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 252 180 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Taunt

Not sure what's OHKOing Crobat that you're so worried about except Scarf Hydra's Head Smash. 76 HP gives it a measly 6% chance of doing so (and you still OHKO Volc / Scol with BB). Now you have Mental Herb for Prankster Taunters (Liepard / Murkrow / Sableye) so you can basically guarantee a turn 1 Tailwind.

Just my thoughts :)

 

[6tennis]

Wide Guard Aegislash walls your team pretty handily.

Um, are you forgetting the Hydreigon and the Krookodile? Other than that, those changes seem spot on. I also already mentioned Head Smash on Hydreigon but idc

 

[cant say]

Um, are you forgetting the Hydreigon and the Krookodile? Other than that, those changes seem spot on. I also already mentioned Head Smash on Hydreigon but idc

Yeah I was lol. But still, Scarf Hydra lacks the power to outright OHKO it, and Krook needs to play around King's Shield to hit it with a Knock Off, so I still think running a mono-targeting fire move for Aegi is worth it. Also, with the spread damage penalty and without a Quiver Dance boost, Heat Wave is actually kinda weak..

And oh yeah I did see you mentioned HS, but he didn't change it in the pastebin which is what I was commenting on.

 

[6tennis]

Yeah I was lol. But still, Scarf Hydra lacks the power to outright OHKO it, and Krook needs to play around King's Shield to hit it with a Knock Off, so I still think running a mono-targeting fire move for Aegi is worth it. Also, with the spread damage penalty and without a Quiver Dance boost, Heat Wave is actually kinda weak..

And oh yeah I did see you mentioned HS, but he didn't change it in the pastebin which is what I was commenting on.

oic. But without a QD boost, Bug Buzz and Giga Drain are pretty weak too. That's why QD is gr8. You can also just EQ to outplay Aegislash's protects. It's quite easy.

 

[LLewis]

Omg ahahah

Weakness Policy > Assault Vest lol
On Krookodile can I use Stone Edge > Rock
Slide for hit with a possible opponent Wide Guard? :/

 

[cant say]

oic. But without a QD boost, Bug Buzz and Giga Drain are pretty weak too. That's why QD is gr8. You can also just EQ to outplay Aegislash's protects. It's quite easy.

In my experience on Showdown and watching replays, Volcarona hasn't been used much as a setup sweeper. Protect + 3 attacks has been much more common (and is what's worked for me), you just use the appropriate attack to hit relevant stuff and Protect when needed. Bug Buzz certainly isn't weak without a boost, it OHKOes all the Dark-types weak to it which is basically all it's used for. I only suggested Giga Drain for Kabutops rain teams and the rare (but crazy annoying) Soak + Shedinja strat. My third attack is Hidden Power Rock for Chandelure, opposing Volcarona and the occasional Noivern.

 

[LLewis]

In my experience on Showdown and watching replays, Volcarona hasn't been used much as a setup sweeper. Protect + 3 attacks has been much more common (and is what's worked for me), you just use the appropriate attack to hit relevant stuff and Protect when needed. Bug Buzz certainly isn't weak without a boost, it OHKOes all the Dark-types weak to it which is basically all it's used for. I only suggested Giga Drain for Kabutops rain teams and the rare (but crazy annoying) Soak + Shedinja strat. My third attack is Hidden Power Rock for Chandelure, opposing Volcarona and the occasional Noivern.

Volcarona Ev's Spread for Protect + 3 attacks? (Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, HP Rock/Flamethrower, Protect?)

This is the team atm:

Liepard @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 156 HP / 100 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Swagger
- Play Rough
- Encore

Krookodile @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Head Smash
- Flash Cannon

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 172 SpA / 4 SpD / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Secret Sword
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Volcarona @ Charti Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 68 SpA / 76 SpD / 108 Spe
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Protect
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz

Crobat @ Mental Herb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 180 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Taunt

I'm note sure of Krookodile and Aegislash Ev's Spreadx-x
Suggest?

 

[cant say]

Volcarona Ev's Spread for Protect + 3 attacks? (Bug Buzz, Giga Drain, HP Rock/Flamethrower, Protect?)

This is the team atm:



I'm note sure of Krookodile and Aegislash Ev's Spreadx-x
Suggest?

Leftovers on Aegi won't get it very far. If you want it to provide Wide Guard support I think it needs a specially defensive spread so it can survive single-target moves such as Hydra's Specs Dark Pulse and Volcarona's Fiery Dance / Flamethrower after a Quiver Dance (Fire Blast OHKOes anyway but it's rarely used). I would use this:

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Sacred Sword
- Flash Cannon

If you're stuck with Quiet coz you've already bred it / don't have time or whatever, then I would use 252 HP / 100 SpA / 156 SpD which allows you to tank a Specs Dark Pulse from Hydra and a good chance (75%) of living +1 Fiery Dance from Volcarona, while also pumping up Flash Cannon for Granbull (still OHKOes non-Assault Vest Granbull).

Krookodile looks fine. If you wanted a little more bulk then you could drop the speed down to 188 EVs which when under Tailwind outspeeds +1 Jolly Scolipede and OHKO with Stone Edge, which means you can use 68 HP EVs (which also gives you a Life Orb number of 179 for minimizing the recoil).