M&M Mix and Mega

[Ultimate-Break]

I have a couple ideas regarding Unecro transformations that might work.

1. (cheap method) Higher Atk stat leads to the transformation that gives more Atk and same logic for SpA.

2. Pick one transformation to be shiny and one to be regular, however this might give hints in team preview. You might want to slap random shinies to throw off opponents.

3. 30 Atk IVs leads to the transformation that gives more SpA and same logic the other way around.

4. (too difficult probably) Make two separate items just for this.

I think this is a neat item and advocate it for it to be introduced in some way.

First, I suggest the same idea with number 1 with one difference: The lower stat via Atk/Spa should be boosted more than the higher one, and the lower stat via Def/SpD should be lowered less, only calculated from Base Stats (IV or EV is not considered, same as another Mega Stones).

As you know, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane has 157 Atk and 113 SpA, and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings has vice versa (113 Atk and 157 SpA) - but their Ultra Bursted forms have 167 both. The same logic can be applied to Def/SpD (127/109 or 109/127 → 97/97).

So, its stat changes on my first idea would be:

Type: +Dragon (Secondary)
Abiility: Neuroforce
Stat boost/drop:
+10 or +54 on Atk/SpA (the higher one gets the former)
-30 or -12 on Def/SpD (the higher one gets the former)
+52 Spe
(Total: +74)

But the problem is, on this logic, we should additionally decide what should occur when a pokemon with the exact same Base Stats of Atk and SpA, or with Def and SpD. Of course, we can make another rule like "both get +32 or -21 if tied" from average, or "both get +10 or -30 if tied" to keep it a little more balanced, but I'm worried that these solutions might break Metagame Workshop's philosophy, if those exception rules would be added only for Ultranecrozium Z: "Keep your Metagame premise succinct."

To avoid making exception on same Base Stats, I can suggest the second idea: "+32 Atk/SpA from average, -21 Def/SpD from average, +52 Spe (each average is rounded down)". It is reasonable but might be overpowered, and I also doubt this could be coded properly.

But if possible, whether the first or the second idea, I also hope Ultranecrozium Z becomes one of "Mega Stones" (but I think Z-Move feature should be removed from it) , even if it gets banned right after it. Once if the algorithm is coded, the users can unban them on custom games, for suspect tests, for friendly fun game, or for whatever.

(Honestly, I don't expect it is balanced with +52 Spe, no matter how Atk/SpA or Def/SpD stat boosts go on)

 

[Icemaster]

I'm very sorry but we won't be implementing Ultranecrozium Z in any way. I personally support it, but I've been told that the OM leaders have told us that we must not.

In other news:
Pidgeotite was banned! Thank you all for voting.

And as a result, the council has decided to unrestrict Zapdos from Mega Evolving.

Tagging Kris to implement.

 

[Ultimate-Break]

I'm very sorry but we won't be implementing Ultranecrozium Z in any way. I personally support it, but I've been told that the OM leaders have told us that we must not.

In other news:
Pidgeotite was banned! Thank you all for voting.

And as a result, the council has decided to unrestrict Zapdos from Mega Evolving.

Tagging Kris to implement.

Don't be sorry, it's understandable. Thank you for all efforts.

 

[dilllllllllllon]

now that the spawn of satan (pidgeotite) is bannished to the underworlds from whenst it came the meta should be a lot more balanced with more nuanced speed tiers between the arceus speed tier and the low 400s of total speed. stall and stall mons will become much better now that they cant be insta wrecked effortlessly by any random pidgeotite user. im curious to see how stall will progress w mons like garganacle and skeledirge. imma test a edited version of a old proven stall team feel free to give feedback

Princess Tina (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
heavily relies on heal bell blissey but has insane raw bulk and is great at its role

Emo Skarmory (Corviknight) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Hurricane
- Defog
- U-turn
- Roost
replaces blue orb skarmory but not like issa actual difference, maybe iron defense or sablenite should be ran instead

Satan (Blissey) (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Shadow Ball
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled
this the mon im most confused about, should it be sable slowbronite audinite? calm mind? should it even run a status or steal rock? what about a mold breaker stone? def heavily nerfed since last gen but heal bell is way to good to not use blissey on stall

next are the edited slots that were once filled by ampharosite jirachi, banetite pallosand (i disagreed w dis one even on the og team), and shedinja (i also disagreed w shedinja lol). it is a requirement for these slots to include a mold breaker hazards mon, a sd arceus check or a mon to help fill giratinas general def role so giratina can fill that role vs arceus, and a mon that can wall standard phys mons that run ground or fighting stab

Quag (Clodsire) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect
- Recover
the team rly needs a mold breaker hazards setter and blissey/heal bell is probably too valuable to be a sacrificed to the risky lead slot. there arent many options for good mold breaker trocks mons and its hard on stall to restrict the freedom of tusk to set up rocks or spin at its leisure, this slot is open to experimentation

NO TOUCH (Toxapex) @ Latiasite
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Toxic Spikes
- Haze
- Recover
mostly used for its cc and eq resistance, it likes to pair w garganacl. the absence of garg is the greatest argument against running giratina, but hopefully giratina should be able to fill a generic phys wall slot rather well. this teams specific resist slot can also be filled by lati skeledirge and a version of zapdos

Where the Hos At (Gholdengo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover
the greatest weakness of stall in a diverse bulky offense metta is the ability to have enough offensive pressure to counter opposing stall mons and status immune mons, gholdengo also blocks defog and since the stone banning of gholdengo teams rely more on defog than rapid spin. the stone banning of gholdengo and its subsequent decline in use also means its anti defog role can be more significant

im just tryna brainstorm for stall cores, dropping tina and/or blissey might be worth it. garganacl should be a huge asset to stall especially w its ability to retain some amount of damage while being a wall, i wonder which stone itd use and which moves like pins curse body slam salt cure, aggronite/lati iron defense body slam, how significant is salt cure for stall teams? i hope the playtyle will be developed more in this meta. (edit the team gets wrecked by kingambit so it needs a counter for him)

 

[oopsalldeoxys]

I think gholdengo should be ranked, probably not too high but it has a legitimate niche in that it shuts down several defensive pokemon like corv and glowking while retaining enough offense without a stone to be a nuisance to switch into. Id also like to shout out ting lu for being an incredible special wall with ampharosite even without vessel of ruin and synergizing incredibly well with glowking

 

[dilllllllllllon]

sup, dlc is cool me likey. too early to tell where things are gunna head but heres my shortlist of new toys and thoughts. empoleon gets roost but no scald or cm/np, mew still dont have recovery, ceruledge has poltergheist now, mandibuzz is back and alomo has scald and flip turn itll be interesting to see how and which pivots are used. the new psn/psych monke and some returning faces like tail glow manaphy will be great for the meta as we have been deprived of solid special attackers that dont break the meta, we mostly have had either mediocre special attackers or blatanlty op bs so im hopeful for balance (just dont look at the new ursaluna goddam). hopefully well see a more developed set of pivots and a more reliable and balanced set of special attackers, the meta def needs a bit of improvement in those areas


Ursaluna-Bloodmoon (M) @ Altarianite
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Blood Moon (same bp as boomburst, cant be used sequentially)
- Earth Power
- Moonlight
ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it, i rest my case

Munkidori (M) @ Lucarionite/Diancite
Ability: Toxic Chain
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Wave
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Parting Shot/U-Turn
fun n spammable stab w decent bulk n speed, def the only interesting new monke

Sinistcha-Masterpiece @ Slowbronite
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Matcha Gotcha
- Shadow Ball
- Strength Sap
surprisingly good set of traits, i hope its utility will outweigh its type

Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Protect
WHY DID THEY BUFF THIS DAMN FISH SO MUCH

 

[Izmagack]

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon (M) @ Altarianite
Ability: Mind's Eye
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Blood Moon (same bp as boomburst, cant be used sequentially)
- Earth Power
- Moonlight
ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it ban it, i rest my case

I’ve been running this same set with vacuum wave over CM. Disgusting. Ban ban ban

 

[Clas]

To the two people above talking about Blood Moon Ursaluna, may I introduce the two new broken Water-types:

Hide

Walking Wake @ Lucarionite
Ability: Protosynthesis
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Flip Turn
- Agility / Substitute / Surf / Dragon Pulse


Manaphy @ Absolite
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
- Tail Glow

Both of these are hilariously stupid. Wake has 0 reasonable switch-ins, and the few actual ones are just Flip Turned on. Offensive counterplay is also generally limited to one of correct prediction or PixiSpeed, as Agility and Substitute punish specific plays in the later game. Surf and Dragon Pulse are optional coverage options, though I don't recommend either. As for Manaphy, if this sets up and you don't have a Skymin or similar then ggwp. Same issues as Wake, but instead of having Flip Turn its instead Tail Glow. At least Manaphy has to first weaken Red Orb Zapdos and Jolteon.

 

[dilllllllllllon]

the new grass monke's masks work as stones now, are they gunna keep the same ban restrictions or gain their own since they dont boost stats? i assume the 20% power boost that Ogerpon gets is also applied in mnm. unless the masks can be given to mediocre ubers in stone limbo like mewtwo the only one that has potential for use is the one that grants the fire type and mold breaker, mold breaker hazard leads have been legitimate roles in the past and the only 2 stones that granted the ability till now both added a fairy weakness, but now we have a option which gives a fairy resist at the expense of no usefull stat buffs

 

[UT]

are they gunna keep the same ban restrictions or gain their own since they dont boost stats?

Yes, the restricted list will apply to masks as well. No Mewtwo @ Cornerstone Mask, sorry.

i assume the 20% power boost that Ogerpon gets is also applied in mnm.

Yes, it does. You get the 20% boost to all attacks, new secondary type, and new ability. While it’s not a stat boost, a 20% boost is roughly equivalent to a 25-35 increase in base Attack / SpA.

the only one that has potential for use is the one that grants the fire type and mold breaker,

There is also Water type + Water Absorb, so we can now free Kyogre!

 

[Redflix]

MANAPHY IS NOW RESTRICTED FROM HOLDING STONES IN MIX AND MEGA!!
​

Despite the presence of Red orb users, the council has unanimously decided to quick restrict manaphy owing to Tail Glow and its decent bulk which when combined with Manectite allowed it to be a deadly set up sweeper. Other options like Absolite also gave it a good speed tier, making it harder to revenge kill. In addition, the option of it running substitute as its 4th move to take advantage of slow pivots made manaphy had no definite defensive answers in the meta.

After manaphy, the council is keeping a close eye on Walking Wake and judge its healthiness in the meta. Finally we shall also be working on preliminary samples asap so please do submit teams for sample submission if you can.

Tagging Kris to implement.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Introducing: Ogerpon Masks!

With the new SV DLC, we have a set of three new items that qualify under Mix and Mega's new definition, the Ogerpon masks. Each adds a type (rock, water, and fire respectively) as well as a new ability (Sturdy, Water Absorb, and Mold Breaker) and a small buff to damage. Although we do not anticipate any being particularly good at this point, they do each offer some new unique trait not otherwise available. Feel free to try them out, and let us know if you come up with something neat!

 

[dilllllllllllon]

a few sets i been tryin out to test their viability

King Pengu (Empoleon) @ Latiasite/Manectite
Ability: Competitive
Tera Type: Penguin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Roar/Flip Turn
- Roost
steel/water is a great type with a plethora of useful resists, in comparison with milotic it loses scald and gains a trocks resist and an ability to effortlessly phase most magearna variants and arceus forms, espeeders and non sablenite walls. latiosite sd sets w eq and wave crash are also fun and can usually kill non wisp arceus forms. while i hoped and tried, scizorite with aqua jet metal claw and sd is too slow and weak, pengu really likes to float

Naruto Uzamonke (Infernape) @ Gyaradosite/Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Iron Fist
Tera Type: Monke
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Taunt
- Slack Off
my best attempt at a mold breaker lead, overheat for corv and great (elon) tusk w taunt for blissey and stallbreaking. i havent calced anything but perhaps reduced speed investment and greater spa could let it reliably force kills on mons such as cm magearna, the hearth mask monke has pure fire type and a 20% power boost so its the harder hiting variant and the one that resists fairy

Punk Puff (Scream Tail) @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA or 252 Def / 4 Spa
Modest or Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Protect
- Wish
the ability of typical lead puff sets without the annoying fairy weakness, i think this mon-orb pair has potential altho i am unsure which set or evs would suit it best

Satan (Bramblin) @ Cornerstone Mask
Ability: Wind Rider
Level: 1
Tera Type: Grass
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Spikes/Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Pain Split
some may say the Cornerstone mask is useless, others hail its arrival as a barron of chaos and anarchy. all hail giratina. this thing is so mf fun and cheesy, nonetheless it is still an unholy abomination

Terrak Be Gone :( (Zamazenta) @ Cornerstone Mask
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Doggo
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Howl
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
whens terrakion gunna b released? no further comments necessary

 

[zastra]

dlc has given us new toys so i have risen from the grave to post about them

Hide

Walking Wake @ Lucarionite
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Flip Turn
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / Scald / Dragon Pulse / Agility? / Substitute?

oh wow look new tool! flip turn is an insane addition to wwake's arsenal. it already hits hard, and now it can flip turn on the few actual switch-ins! im really not convinced by agility sets because you get revenged by pixispeed next turn anyway, you just need to h i t. scald is an interesting option i found, it can cripple altnite on the switch-in with a burn.

Hide

Barraskewda @ Lopunnite
Ability: Swift Swim
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flip Turn
- Liquidation
- Close Combat
- Crunch

hey look! another water type gained flip turn! it's physical this time?? cool!

Hide

Milotic @ Sablenite / Slowbronite
Ability: Marvel Scale
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover

alternatively

Milotic @ Sablenite
Ability: Marvel Scale
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flip Turn
- Scald
- Haze
- Recover

another water?? this time it's fat?? but look! it gets flip turn AND SCALD! and haze+recover too.

Hide

Shaymin-Sky @ Lucarionite
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Psychic
- Earth Power
- Air Slash

we cant just be talking waters. we got an actual grass too. and an actual fast one at that. it has issues with the million latiasite mons we have but shrug just -spd+flinch through them.

Hide

Darkrai @ Diancite
Ability: Bad Dreams
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunder

darkrai back babe. who cares about pixispeed or whatever just dark pulse sludge bomb thunder them. u wont get many opportunities to sweep but shrug. i have a very cool team built around darkrai, u can check my rmt here (def not advertising)

Hide

Garchomp @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Rough Skin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Outrage
- Fire Blast

i was looking @ potential mons for hearthflame mask cuz a pixispeed resistant moldy stone should in-theory be very good in mnm, and this is the best i could find. chomp gets rid of its pixispeed weakness, has access to stealth rock+spikes, and coverage against corv and shit. i dont expect this to be very good but i guess its at least a workable pick on HO. havent tried building

i will share a few builds i have been cooking after dlc came(havent had much time to play except for some ladder games and a few friendlies)
https://pokepast.es/685f8a60f0bb7032 (manaphy team)
https://pokepast.es/6b1fde7e4477855a wwake team
https://pokepast.es/97ae3ead4a7d7b63 herac bax team. gyara bliss is the god
https://pokepast.es/69d9d28bffe5c2c5 skymin+chandy
https://pokepast.es/dd67c04c8f2a8896 darkrai+poisonceus
probably wont be building for a while. and im not exactly very satisfied with the jank i have above (except for the bax team lol). so yeah cheers

 

[Redflix]

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has now been restricted from holding stones!
​

With the conclusion of the seasonal, the council recognized the current tier is in dire need of action to make the meta more stable and enjoyable and hence has decided to restrict Ursaluna-BM unanimously. Lucarionite, Manectite or even -ate sets took full advantage of its signature move as well as bulk of BM which often resulted it in putting tremendous work against every team. Defensively there weren't many checks to the mon itself, with Corviknight and Ceruledge being forced into majority of teams and even they could lose the 1v1 to smack down sets. With the recent crisis of Spd walls in the meta, Ursaluna-BM was amongst the primary abuser and we believe it going should give some breathing space to the meta.

We have also decided to go ahead with a Double suspect in form of Jolteon and Enamorus. Both Red orb users have shown themselves to be quite terrifying wall-breakers thanks to access to weather ball. While Enamorus lacks the ability to pivot and outspeed Arceus and Metagrossite Great Tusk, Fairy/Fire being Extremely potent both defensively and offensively and being able to run Grass Knot / Psychic or Earth Power makes it arguably the stronger wall breaker. Expect the OP to be posted before the weekend.

Finally, we know there's still plenty of mons that can be seen as annoying such as Walking Wake, Barraskewda as well as Zapdos in general. We will monitor these mons and see their performance in the upcoming OMWC and judge their healthiness from there.

Onto my personal thoughts, I know a lot of people are attributing this to a Red orb problem but i dont agree with it. Meta is clearly broken and chaotic and i think we need to have a clearer picture to make a decision about red orb. Since the general community building and activity was low ever since DLC dropped, i'd argue we were a bit late in identifying the bigger problem (since we had a cluster of annoying mons) and i think the above two decision is a step in the right direction.

Tagging Kris for implementation

 

[Career Ended]

Just a quick follow-up post from me to explain my thoughts on the above actions.

Ursaluna BM I won't waste much time over as I think everyone can recognize it has too many tools that can easily be abused in the current MnM landscape. The serious lack of specially defensive walls really hamper what can deal with it. Lati-stones ceruledge and Specially defensive Corviknight's both are not near counters. edge can still be hit by mind's eye normal moves pre-mega for considerable amounts and Corviknight struggles to win the 1v1s vs a boosting BM either due to intimidate drops combined with manec BM's bulk or Adaptability boosted blood moon + hyper voice muscling through it. Clearly it was too good at trading and our council was unanimous in its needing to go.

Enamorous and Jolteon both fall under the umbrella of a red orb wallbreaker that love to use calm mind to boost and desolate land boosted weather ball to chunk anything in front of them. Two more mons taking advantage of the lack of real strong spdef walls in the metagame.

Jolteon excels at abusing volt switch to punish switches. Jolteon also boasts the strong 130 speed tier (especially considering Rorb not boosting speed) which allows it to outspeed and threaten ohkoes on metagame removal options like metagrossite great tusk and lucarionite iron treads as well as the ever present corviknight. This leads to games states where if the Jolteon player has hazards and the opponent doesn't, they could find it very hard to not just lose on the spot. The amount of pressure Jolteon can exert with its power and pivoting can be too much for a player to realistically handle when combined with the other good pivoting options available.

Where Jolteon may excel in its ability to maintain momentum, Enamorous is simply a nuclear bomb that you have to attempt to stop from getting in and going off. There is simply nothing that realistically is taking sun boosted weather balls coming off vase 185 spatk. Sablenite Blissey needs calm mind itself to withstand it as +1 weather ball is a 25% to 2hko after a round of stealth rock and +2 weather ball is clearly 2hkoing. Not claiming the speed tier of jolteon doesn't matter as much when everything slower then it is fearing for its life. Which isn't to stay that its speed tier isn't serviceable, because 342 is just fine to outspeed plenty of metagame staples. The coverage offered by stab moonblast and either earth power, psychic, grass knot or substitute make it very difficult to play around cleanly. Lastly its serviceable bulk and great defensive typing give it a fine defensive profile for a decently fast, incredibly strong wallbreaker status.

Hopefully I will have time in the near future to post more thoughts on the metagame at large, but unfortunately I've been a tad busy with IRL stuff of late so it'll have to wait. Thank you for reading these thoughts and I hope you understand the Ursaluna-BM ban and I encourage all of you to go out there and get voting requirements for the upcoming suspect test!

 

[Redflix]

Ursaluna-Bloodmoon has now been restricted from holding stones!
​

View attachment 562877

With the conclusion of the seasonal, the council recognized the current tier is in dire need of action to make the meta more stable and enjoyable and hence has decided to restrict Ursaluna-BM unanimously. Lucarionite, Manectite or even -ate sets took full advantage of its signature move as well as bulk of BM which often resulted it in putting tremendous work against every team. Defensively there weren't many checks to the mon itself, with Corviknight and Ceruledge being forced into majority of teams and even they could lose the 1v1 to smack down sets. With the recent crisis of Spd walls in the meta, Ursaluna-BM was amongst the primary abuser and we believe it going should give some breathing space to the meta.

We have also decided to go ahead with a Double suspect in form of Jolteon and Enamorus. Both Red orb users have shown themselves to be quite terrifying wall-breakers thanks to access to weather ball. While Enamorus lacks the ability to pivot and outspeed Arceus and Metagrossite Great Tusk, Fairy/Fire being Extremely potent both defensively and offensively and being able to run Grass Knot / Psychic or Earth Power makes it arguably the stronger wall breaker. Expect the OP to be posted before the weekend.

Finally, we know there's still plenty of mons that can be seen as annoying such as Walking Wake, Barraskewda as well as Zapdos in general. We will monitor these mons and see their performance in the upcoming OMWC and judge their healthiness from there.

Onto my personal thoughts, I know a lot of people are attributing this to a Red orb problem but i dont agree with it. Meta is clearly broken and chaotic and i think we need to have a clearer picture to make a decision about red orb. Since the general community building and activity was low ever since DLC dropped, i'd argue we were a bit late in identifying the bigger problem (since we had a cluster of annoying mons) and i think the above two decision is a step in the right direction.

Tagging Kris for implementation

After input from the OM mod team, the council has reconsidered its decision and instead going ahead with a Jolteon Suspect Test. While both Pokemon have a common ground, still some differences in how they function and the general iffy-ness behind double suspect test is something that should be avoided and we agree with that sentiment.
Apologies for the confusion caused

 

[Clas]

If multiple things are getting suspected/banned for abusing... one good option, doesn't that mean that we should be suspecting Red Orb instead of these mons? Just curious.

They're noticeably different in practice. Jolteon is actually very fast with the ability to pivot, while Enamorus is more of a nuke. Not to mention their types are completely different and so have different checks and counters with only a couple shared ones (venusaurite clodsire and thats kinda it)

 

[Notagamer]

They're noticeably different in practice. Jolteon is actually very fast with the ability to pivot, while Enamorus is more of a nuke. Not to mention their types are completely different and so have different checks and counters with only a couple shared ones (venusaurite clodsire and thats kinda it)

Huh? I’m probably wrong but certain mons being different doesn’t mean anything for what we should actually suspect as both are still becoming good with the same item?

 

[Clas]

Huh? I’m probably wrong but certain mons being different doesn’t mean anything for what we should actually suspect as both are still becoming good with the same item?

The few ever cases of a double suspect involve two almost identical Pokemon always (the broadest case is Zoroark-H + Gengar, and the only difference is one having U-turn and the other having a little more Special Attack while everything else was the exact same including checks and counters). Jolteon and Enamarous are noticeably different as have different answers and do different things. Even if they both use Red Orb to spam Fire-type moves, it doesn't make them similar enough for a double suspect, and hence why OM Staff suggested not to do a double suspect test.

 

[dilllllllllllon]

some fun toys and experiments as of late

Empoleon, pfun but limited to defensive sets w the lati stones, likes latiasite w surf ice beam and roar or latiosite with sd liquidation and ice spinner or eq. its most notable trait is absolutely sitting on common arc variants like nobodies business and being pretty great vs dnite too, it further justifies its existence by being a tox immune sd user w a decent matchup vs most stall mons, counters non iron defense magearna too. fairly mediocre bulk stats hold it back but its uniqueness (and years of players pent up urge to use roost w empoleon) make it appealing to experiment with and it may find a legit role on a offense team for its type and role compression

with all the weather ball spam going on i have set out to find catch all red orb counters (that ARENT worthless blobs or *insert spdef cm arc form here*), do they exist? can they exist? a couple sets stand out to me as candidates, however youll notice the common theme of hazard allergies
Thor the Chicken (Zapdos) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Weather Ball
- U-turn/Hurricane/Volt Switch
- Roost
really misses out on the phys bulk especially w blorb not adding to physdef, but w max spdef investment it can switch in on and spam a se 150 bp water move in redorbers faces, altho this changes vs enamorus if rocks are up. modest nature is run for a 81.3% chance to ohko +1 spdef 4 spdef ev enamorus w weather ball in case enam tries to cm on the switch
Iron Sun (Iron Moth) @ Latiasite
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fiery Dance
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball/Discharge/Dazzling Gleam/Psychic/Agility/U-Turn/Whirlwind/Toxic
- Morning Sun
def one of my fav mons lately, the moth has a super great type for the meta rn and is a super consistent game to game performer but only if it takes on a partially defensive role/evs, this way it can sit on or kill things it wouldnt be able to normally like pex, garga switching in if you get a spa boost, tusk w rocks up, the bulk also helps out a huge amount vs red orb mons letting the moth morning sun in their face with much greater ease
Señor Dirge (Skeledirge) @ Latiasite
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Torch Song
- Earth Power
- Slack Off
the most passive and team style restricted option, but successfully counters redorbers if rocks arent up and it still has plenty of phys bulk wo investment to still do helpful things vs a lot of phys attackers. it should be noted since dirge would be used on stall focused teams itd likely come w another backup enam counter like lati clod or lati pex or the egg

Award for most underrated "Used Weather Ball" machine goes to
Scrufles the Genie (Landorus) (M) @ Red Orb
Ability: Sand Force
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Weather Ball
- Earth Power
- Extrasensory/Focus Blast
seriously though the second enamorus gets banned if/when it happens lando is taking over as it is the best remaining option and can switch in vs other non enamorus orb mons to be a one time counter to them while spamming a 225 bp fire move off a 471 unboosted spa stat with psychic and ground coverage to ruin both variants of pex and clodsire. in my personal opinion weather ball is broken and needs to be banned, its interaction with red orb gives a free 225 bp fire move to soooo many pokemon, this didnt use to be a problem because of limited distribution, but now EVERYTHING gets weather ball and the dex aint full enough yet for there to be enough high speed mons for most teams to be able to naturally outspeed and ohko frailer orb users. this provides little counterbalance to the redorbs amazing defenseive, and now amazing offensive, prowess. nintendo handing out weather balls like oprah handing out free cars

i tried this set as a meme and curiosity bc i wanted to test the utility of magic guard in mnm but i was very surprised that i actually got some decent use out of it, it put in work
Satan (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Night Shade
- Cosmic Power
- Moonlight
clef functions as a stallbreaker and pivot vs stall mons, stall teams, and status reliant mons. its so easy to switch in vs hazard and status spam and get safe switches w wish as much as you want

 

[Isaiah]

Jolteon is now restricted from holding stones: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-mix-and-mega-suspect-6-jolteon.3730811/post-9852109

Tagging Kris to implement

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Enamorus has now been restricted from holding stones!
​

With the conclusion of the Jolteon suspect, it's now time to take action on the other problematic abuser of red orb, Enamorus. Though significantly slower than Jolteon and unable to pivot, Enamorus' added bulk, special attack, and coverage made it just as bad for many teams to face. As a result, Teams were often limited to otherwise unviable checks like Venusaurite Clodsire - checks which, thanks to its access to Calm Mind and sheer power, it could often muscle through anyway. With Jolteon's removal from the metagame via suspect test, we see no reason for its counterpart to stay.

On Red Orb: Some people have been calling for red orb to be banned rather than individual abusers. Though this is not completely off the table in the future should more pokemon continue to be broken, we try and have a higher standard for banning stones than for banning individual abusers, and thus is typically requires showing that the issue is inherent to the transformation via a trend of broken users. Hopefully, the potential replacements for these two (like Thundurus, Zapdos, Espeon, and Enamorus-T) are sufficiently worse so as to not rise to this level, but if they do we may take action then.

 

[Maybca☆〜ゝ。∂]

YESSSSS
TY I LOVE YOU QT REDFLIX AND CAREER

 

[dilllllllllllon]

Enamorus has now been restricted from holding stones!
​

With the conclusion of the Jolteon suspect, it's now time to take action on the other problematic abuser of red orb, Enamorus. Though significantly slower than Jolteon and unable to pivot, Enamorus' added bulk, special attack, and coverage made it just as bad for many teams to face. As a result, Teams were often limited to otherwise unviable checks like Venusaurite Clodsire - checks which, thanks to its access to Calm Mind and sheer power, it could often muscle through anyway. With Jolteon's removal from the metagame via suspect test, we see no reason for its counterpart to stay.

On Red Orb: Some people have been calling for red orb to be banned rather than individual abusers. Though this is not completely off the table in the future should more pokemon continue to be broken, we try and have a higher standard for banning stones than for banning individual abusers, and thus is typically requires showing that the issue is inherent to the transformation via a trend of broken users. Hopefully, the potential replacements for these two (like Thundurus, Zapdos, Espeon, and Enamorus-T) are sufficiently worse so as to not rise to this level, but if they do we may take action then.

Landorus has entered the chat