Metagame Workshop

[Kadabrium]

Change is Bad
The Metagame: unchanged since 1899.
Metagame premise: Suppose Game Freak never updated anything but rather only made new stuff? That's this meta idea. Things function as they were introduced. Basically...

-All Pokemon have the typing and BST they were introduced with. For example, Magnemite and Magneton are Electric types, but Magnezone is still Electric/Steel. Gardevoir is a Psychic type but Mega-Gardevoir is a Psychic/Fairy.
-All Gen 1 Pokemon have Special Attack and Special Defense equal to their Special stat. Megas, however, have the stats they were introduced to, which could lead to some stat drops.
-All moves have the same typing, base power, PP, and secondary effects they were introduced with, including any bugs. For example, Leech Seed stacks with Toxic, Low Kick is BP 50 with a 30% flinch chance, Wrap prevents either side from taking action, etc.
-All abilities function as they were introduced. For example, Sturdy no longer prevents OHKOs from non-OHKO moves and Lightning Rod no longer grants Electric immunity nor grants a Special Attack boost.
-All status effects function as they were introduced. For example, sleep lasts 1-7 turns, resets on switching, and the Pokemon takes no action on waking. Frozen Pokemon never thaw unless using or being hit by moves that cause it.
-The type chart functions as the types were introduced, with later added typings taking precedence. For example, Bug and Poison are super-effective against each other, Steel resists Ghost and Dark, but Psychic is still weak to Dark and Dark is still weak to Fairy. Additionally, Grass-types are no longer immune to powder moves, Electric types immune to paralysis, etc.
-All items function as introduced. Sitrus Berry only restores 30 HP rather than 25%, for example.

Notable exceptions: All Pokemon have access to their modern move and ability pools. This is to keep older Pokemon from getting shafted hard by having old, crappy movepools or Gen I and II Pokemon from having no abilities, III and IV not having hidden abilities, etc while everything Gen V and later would more or less laugh at everything.

I'm not coming up with a full list of differences here since that'd be a lot of work. It'd be something I'd save for if it was accepted.

Potential bans and threats: -Freeze clause would be implemented due to Pokemon not thawing on their own
-Wrap, Bind, and Fire Spin would be banned since fast Pokemon would be untouchable by slow
-Wobbufet, because two Leftovers Wobbus would get stuck in an endless loop due to Shadow Tag and Struggle doing less damage than Leftovers recovery
-Sky Drop, because it'd be bugged again like Gen V.
-Soul Dew because old Soul Dew was always banned for a reason.
-I'm sure I've missed some...

It's hard to predict threats with how much things would change. But I can see like Chansey becoming threatening since it'd now have a 105 Special Attack.

Questions for the community: -Did I miss anything major?
-Should I blend old movepools into new ones? Aka, if a Pokemon ever learned a move in any generation, it can learn it in Change is Bad. Such as Charmander learning Metal Claw in FRLG, so it'd be legal on any Charizard set. Go go Teleport Arcanine! Or should it be strictly modern movepools?

Aren't partial trapping moves just a variant of multi hit moves?

 

[Schpoonman]

Aren't partial trapping moves just a variant of multi hit moves?

Partial trapping moves (Wrap, Clamp, etc.) prevent the target from switching out or acting at all, meaning the only way to beat these moves is through outspeeding them (good luck with Agility Dragonite and Multiscale) or firing off priority. They were incredibly imbalanced moves in their inception.

 

[Rumors]

I like the idea but how will team preview work ? According to your premise I think only the Pokemon from Gen5, 6 and 7 will be showed.
About move legality, I think your Charizard can run Metal Claw and Machamp can run No Guard Fissure.

I didn't think of team preview. It might make sense to say "Well, battles didn't have team preview when first introduced, so no team preview." Or "team preview showed all Pokemon when it was introduced, so it works as normal." Either way could be argued.

Aren't partial trapping moves just a variant of multi hit moves?

Not quite, as Schpoonman explained. However, only Gen I partial trapping would have old behavior. Stuff like Infestation and Magma Storm never prevented the opponent from taking action, so they wouldn't in this.

 

[jasprose]

Mirror match
Metagame premise: This meta would have you build a team of 3 pokemon and then at the start of each match, the opponent's 3 pokemon are added to your 3, so you both end up fighting using the same team.
Potential bans and threats: OU banlist
Questions for the community: Would anything outside of the OU banlist need to get banned/unbanned?

 

[Raylsim]

Opposite Day
Premise: Types receive an opposite- all Moves and Pokemon are changed to the opposite type. (Edit) Drought and Drizzle will be swapped- and so will snow warning and sandstream.

opposites

Bug - Grass
Fairy - Dragon
Flying - Fighting
Ground - Electric
Ice - Steel
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Rock
Psychic - Dark
Water - Fire

Potential bans and threats: Ubers(Banned-OU Rules), All forms of Kyurem, Maybe Avalugg (Pure Steel), Metagross-Mega
Example:
Metagross Mega

Steel + Psychic --> Ice + DarkMoves:
Meteor Mash (Ice)
Bullet Punch (Ice)
Zen Headbutt (Dark)
Brick Break(or hammer arm) (Flying)

Ice is a much better offensive typing than steel + It gets flying type move for the 4x fighting weakness.

Community Questions: Any Opposites that should be swapped or changed?
Any pokemon seeming broken?
Any issues with the mechanics?
Should I change the name to something more clear?

Edit: -Ate will be changed to their opposite type/ possibly name changed too.
(I have a working version of this!)

All type bonuses (Like dark being immune to prankster or electric being immune to paralyze) are kept.

Pokemon who had weather summon abilities gain a more appropriate weather:

Weather

Ninetales - Drizzle
Ninetales-Alola - Sand Stream
Hippowdon - Snow Warning
Mega Char Y - Drizzle
Politoed - Drought
Pelliper - Drought
Abomasnow - Sand Stream

Terrain boosts to types are for reversed types. (Grass to Bug etc)

 

[Reviloja753]

Opposite Day
Premise: Types receive an opposite- all Moves and Pokemon are changed to the opposite type.

opposites

Bug - Grass
Fairy - Dragon
Flying - Fighting
Ground - Electric
Ice - Steel
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Rock
Psychic - Dark
Water - Fire

Potential bans and threats: Ubers, Maybe Avalugg (Pure Steel), Metagross-Mega
Example:
Metagross Mega

Steel + Psychic --> Ice + DarkMoves:
Meteor Mash (Ice)
Bullet Punch (Ice)
Zen Headbutt (Dark)
Brick Break(or hammer arm) (Flying)

Ice is a much better offensive typing than steel + It gets flying type move for the 4x fighting weakness.

Community Questions: Any Opposites that should be swapped or changed?
Any pokemon seeming broken?
Any issues with the mechanics?
Should I change the name to something more clear?

What about Pokemon that have opposing types (Volcanion, Leavanny, Malamar, etc.)?

 

[Raylsim]

What about Pokemon that have opposing types (Volcanion, Leavanny, Malamar, etc.)?

They stay as their original typing, but moves are swapped for every mon - so volcanion's steam eruption is fire and etc.

 

[iLlama]

Opposite Day
Premise: Types receive an opposite- all Moves and Pokemon are changed to the opposite type.

opposites

Bug - Grass
Fairy - Dragon
Flying - Fighting
Ground - Electric
Ice - Steel
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Rock
Psychic - Dark
Water - Fire

Potential bans and threats: Ubers, Maybe Avalugg (Pure Steel), Metagross-Mega
Example:
Metagross Mega

Steel + Psychic --> Ice + DarkMoves:
Meteor Mash (Ice)
Bullet Punch (Ice)
Zen Headbutt (Dark)
Brick Break(or hammer arm) (Flying)

Ice is a much better offensive typing than steel + It gets flying type move for the 4x fighting weakness.

Community Questions: Any Opposites that should be swapped or changed?
Any pokemon seeming broken?
Any issues with the mechanics?
Should I change the name to something more clear?

When you have to recode every Pokemon and move in the game...

This concept sounds crazy, ngl. I can't even consider all of the things that might be good. How would type effectivity work, i.e. would moves like Freeze-Dry have opposite effects? Are you saying this is an Ubers metagame or Ubers are banned? Assuming this is an OU metagame, you're probably going to need to ban Pokemon like Steel/Fairy Kyurem-B.

 

[Raylsim]

When you have to recode every Pokemon and move in the game...

This concept sounds crazy, ngl. I can't even consider all of the things that might be good. How would type effectivity work, i.e. would moves like Freeze-Dry have opposite effects? Are you saying this is an Ubers metagame or Ubers are banned? Assuming this is an OU metagame, you're probably going to need to ban Pokemon like Steel/Fairy Kyurem-B.

Ubers are banned.
I have no clue for freeze f̶r̶y̶ dry, possibly super effective against fire. Other than that, the type chart is the same.
Can't you just change the type in the move/pokedex file?
>You can change the type in the file it just doesn't display it.

 

[Reviloja753]

Ubers are banned.
I have no clue for freeze f̶r̶y̶ dry, possibly super effective against fire. Other than that, the type chart is the same.
Can't you just change the type in the move/pokedex file?

For freeze-dry, it should turn into a steel move that is always super effective on fire. Also, I say to ban the Kyruems altogether, as they all become Steel/Fairy, and with their stats, nobody wants to face that. Reshiram and Zekrom are fine (if they aren't Uber) though.

 

[protoss16]

It will probably be simpler to just change the types, so freeze dry is a steel move that is super effective against water; really good against mega-charizard x, and heatran.
Edit: In other news poison type stealth rock.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Opposite Day
Premise: Types receive an opposite- all Moves and Pokemon are changed to the opposite type. (Edit) Drought and Drizzle will be swapped- and so will snow warning and sandstream.

opposites

Bug - Grass
Fairy - Dragon
Flying - Fighting
Ground - Electric
Ice - Steel
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Rock
Psychic - Dark
Water - Fire

Potential bans and threats: Ubers(Banned-OU Rules), All forms of Kyurem, Maybe Avalugg (Pure Steel), Metagross-Mega
Example:
Metagross Mega

Steel + Psychic --> Ice + DarkMoves:
Meteor Mash (Ice)
Bullet Punch (Ice)
Zen Headbutt (Dark)
Brick Break(or hammer arm) (Flying)

Ice is a much better offensive typing than steel + It gets flying type move for the 4x fighting weakness.

Community Questions: Any Opposites that should be swapped or changed?
Any pokemon seeming broken?
Any issues with the mechanics?
Should I change the name to something more clear?

Edit: -Ate will be changed to their opposite type/ possibly name changed too.\
(I have a working version of this!)

How does curse work? With Normal or Ghost types

 

[Raylsim]

How does curse work? With Normal or Ghost types

Good question! Normal types sacrifice hp to inflict a curse, ghosts and others gain the stat boosts.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

Good question! Normal types sacrifice hp to inflict a curse, ghosts and others gain the stat boosts.

Me: lessee any Ghost / Fighting types?
Type Chart: Literally every Normal/Flying type.
What's a good one?
Noivern also works cuz boomburst.

Magneton/Zone get STAB Ice/Ground coverage.

None of the adaptability users look better really, and Ice / Flying Mega Luc can probably be unbanned, especially since all it has for steel types is like Thunderpunch.

On the other hand Dark / Flying Medicham-Mega sounds dank af. HJK is much better with no immunities.

Also Normal / Grass Shedinja, for what it's worth.

 

[Tuthur]

I like the idea but I feel stall will be too problematic because of eviolite mons abd some of the bulk they can inherit. Might wanna ban Eviolite

After a little bit thinking, I have changed my mind about Eviolite and I think, you're right and I decide to ban it.

 

[Speny]

Passive Abilities
Premise: All Pokemon alive on your teams abilities are in effect. When a Pokemon faints their ability is no longer in effect.
Rules: OU Clause, Item Clause, Ability Clause, specific abilities that only work on certain Pokemon don't transfer. (ex Disguise) Moves and abilities that change the targets abilities get rid of all targets abilities in play until they switch. (Mummy, Gastro Acid)
Bans: Shedninja, Huge Power, Pure Power, Water Bubble, Fur Coat, Fluffy, Protean, Arena Trap, Speed Boost.
Threats: Weather related abilities, Cloud Nine, Technician, Adaptability, Download, Comatose, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Contrary, Prankster, Queenly Majesty/Dazzling, Immunity abilities and Poison Heal.
Example Teams:
Status Ability

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Haxorus @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower

Swellow @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- U-turn
- Steel Wing

Jolteon @ Air Balloon
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Toxic
- Volt Switch

Mienshao @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- U-turn

Tsareena (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Trop Kick
- High Jump Kick
- Rapid Spin
- Synthesis

 

[Reviloja753]

Passive Abilities
Premise: All Pokemon alive on your teams abilities are in effect. When a Pokemon faints their ability is no longer in effect.
Rules: OU Clause, Item Clause, Ability Clause, specific abilities that only work on certain Pokemon don't transfer. (ex Disguise) Moves and abilities that change the targets abilities get rid of all targets abilities in play until they switch. (Mummy, Gastro Acid)
Bans: Shedninja, Huge Power, Pure Power, Water Bubble, Fur Coat, Fluffy, Protean, Arena Trap, Speed Boost.
Threats: Weather related abilities, Cloud Nine, Technician, Adaptability, Download, Comatose, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Contrary, Prankster, Queenly Majesty/Dazzling, Immunity abilities and Poison Heal.
Example Teams:
Status Ability

Wouldn't AV prevent the team from using Status moves?

 

[SadisticMystic]

Assault Vest is an item, not an ability. It doesn't spread to the teammates.

If you have both Drizzle + Drought on your team, or Electric Surge + Psychic Surge, am I interpreting it correctly as "the one that wins out initially is random, but from then on, every time you switch Pokemon, you are guaranteed to switch to the opposite weather/terrain unless you wait long enough for it to expire, in which case it's random again"?

 

[Schpoonman]

Actually, how do battlefield-altering Abilities work? Do they activate on entry for every Pokemon? Weather needs a REAL quick balance if you switch in Kabutops and get free rain.

 

[Raylsim]

Passive Abilities
Premise: All Pokemon alive on your teams abilities are in effect. When a Pokemon faints their ability is no longer in effect.
Rules: OU Clause, Item Clause, Ability Clause, specific abilities that only work on certain Pokemon don't transfer. (ex Disguise) Moves and abilities that change the targets abilities get rid of all targets abilities in play until they switch. (Mummy, Gastro Acid)
Bans: Shedninja, Huge Power, Pure Power, Water Bubble, Fur Coat, Fluffy, Protean, Arena Trap, Speed Boost.
Threats: Weather related abilities, Cloud Nine, Technician, Adaptability, Download, Comatose, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Contrary, Prankster, Queenly Majesty/Dazzling, Immunity abilities and Poison Heal.
Example Teams:
Status Ability

How would terrain extender work?
Also: Raichu-Alola with nasty plot + Koko sounds awesome for this.

 

[Swaggy-G]

Opposite Day
Premise: Types receive an opposite- all Moves and Pokemon are changed to the opposite type. (Edit) Drought and Drizzle will be swapped- and so will snow warning and sandstream.

opposites

Bug - Grass
Fairy - Dragon
Flying - Fighting
Ground - Electric
Ice - Steel
Normal - Ghost
Poison - Rock
Psychic - Dark
Water - Fire

Potential bans and threats: Ubers(Banned-OU Rules), All forms of Kyurem, Maybe Avalugg (Pure Steel), Metagross-Mega
Example:
Metagross Mega

Steel + Psychic --> Ice + DarkMoves:
Meteor Mash (Ice)
Bullet Punch (Ice)
Zen Headbutt (Dark)
Brick Break(or hammer arm) (Flying)

Ice is a much better offensive typing than steel + It gets flying type move for the 4x fighting weakness.

Community Questions: Any Opposites that should be swapped or changed?
Any pokemon seeming broken?
Any issues with the mechanics?
Should I change the name to something more clear?

Edit: -Ate will be changed to their opposite type/ possibly name changed too.
(I have a working version of this!)

Do status also get switched? For example, can rock types get poisoned, and can ground types be paralyzed? What about unique mechanics that some types have? Are normal types immune to trapping? Are psychic types immune to prankster? Needs more fleshing out.

 

[lost heros]

Passive Abilities
Premise: All Pokemon alive on your teams abilities are in effect. When a Pokemon faints their ability is no longer in effect.
Rules: OU Clause, Item Clause, Ability Clause, specific abilities that only work on certain Pokemon don't transfer. (ex Disguise) Moves and abilities that change the targets abilities get rid of all targets abilities in play until they switch. (Mummy, Gastro Acid)
Bans: Shedninja, Huge Power, Pure Power, Water Bubble, Fur Coat, Fluffy, Protean, Arena Trap, Speed Boost.
Threats: Weather related abilities, Cloud Nine, Technician, Adaptability, Download, Comatose, Magic Guard, Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Contrary, Prankster, Queenly Majesty/Dazzling, Immunity abilities and Poison Heal.
Example Teams:
Status Ability

This could get very broken very quickly.
Defensively you could have regenerator intimidate on all Pokémon
Offensively you could combo Guts, Poison Heal, Quick Feet, adaptability, -ate to get the ultimate Facade.

I imagine Mold Breaker/Teravolt will be on most every team well as core enforcer and gastro acid

And of course this is another meta where Noivern gets STAB boomburst.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

This could get very broken very quickly.
Defensively you could have regenerator intimidate on all Pokémon
Offensively you could combo Guts, Poison Heal, Quick Feet, adaptability, -ate to get the ultimate Facade.

I imagine Mold Breaker/Teravolt will be on most every team well as core enforcer and gastro acid

And of course this is another meta where Noivern gets STAB boomburst.

Too bad for your facade I'm spamming my ESPEED all day long. Breakin' all the walls. Think you're safe with Dazzlefish or Queenly Plant? Nope I got Mold Breaker. DEAD.

But seriously this sounds like a meta where things would get way OP way too quickly, and basically be mindless offense. Maybe combo with the mon last out instead? 2 abilities has proven to be manageable a la Multibility.

 

[Reviloja753]

Too bad for your facade I'm spamming my ESPEED all day long. Breakin' all the walls. Think you're safe with Dazzlefish or Queenly Plant? Nope I got Mold Breaker. DEAD.

But seriously this sounds like a meta where things would get way OP way too quickly, and basically be mindless offense. Maybe combo with the mon last out instead? 2 abilities has proven to be manageable a la Multibility.

Maybe it could be that the first two slots have their abilities combined but only between those two. The same would happen to the other two pairs of two.

 

[DuoM2]

I'm still relatively new to OMs as a whole. I don't even know if this is really a good idea or if it's too similar to Cross Evolution/Mix And Mega/some other metagame, but I just thought I'd toss it out here.

(i also don't have a name for this because godly gift was taken)
Metagame premise: Each Pokemon you choose can gain a set of stat buffs/nerfs that they gain that are based on a Legendary Pokemon of your choice's stats if the Pokemon is nicknamed the Legendary Pokemon's name. The Legendary Pokemon and the Pokemon you're giving the boosts must also share at least one typing, and in the case of a Mega Evolution, it must have said type before and after Mega Evolution. The stat buffs go (Legendary Pokemon's base stat - 100). So, if I were to give a Tentacruel the nickname Kyogre, since Kyogre has the stats 100/100/90/150/140/90, it'd gain 0 points in HP and Attack, lose 10 points in Defense and Speed, gain 50 in Special Attack and 40 in Special Defense. They can gain the abilities of the Legendary Pokemon if you choose. Also, it's OU based, but any Legend is allowed to give boosts, and no Legends can recieve them.
Potential bans and threats: For bans, Huge Power, Pure Power, any stats that go below 0 or above 255.
Questions for the community: Is this too similar to the OMs mentioned before? What could be a good name for it? Could I add anything else to it?