General Metagame Discussion

[Diana]

Why can't you guys see that I'm saying that just because the metagame is aimed toward Scraggy doesn't mean that it has to be broken? The Steel-types around wouldn't be nearly as dominating even without Scraggy, just because of the smaller pool of those to choose from. Mienfoo would still be good, and a Flying STAB is still good. If you're seeing things differently, fine, but don't act like I'm missing something just because we don't come to the same conclusion.

 

[v]

Steel types aren't as dominating because most teams pack 2+ fighting pokes, everyone can see this metagame is built around scraggy, why can't you see that LOL

No need to be rude.

 

[iss]

OK, honestly teams pretty much need a flying resist/very bulky mon these days. Scarf Tailow/Doduo are way too common and will shred your Fighting-types with Brave Bird. It OHKOes every Fighting-type Pokemon in the metagame, even with Eviolite. Common resists like Eviolite Chinchou get 2HKOed by Return. U-turn is invaluable early-game. I don't see why more people aren't using them?

 

[blarajan]

OK, honestly teams pretty much need a flying resist/very bulky mon these days. Scarf Tailow/Doduo are way too common and will shred your Fighting-types with Brave Bird. It OHKOes every Fighting-type Pokemon in the metagame, even with Eviolite. Common resists like Eviolite Chinchou get 2HKOed by Return. U-turn is invaluable early-game. I don't see why more people aren't using them?

But seriously, Flying resists are ridiculously necessary right now. Unfortunately, my team doesn't have a normal resist, so those Frustrations hurt =/.

However, U-Turn Taillow is one of the BEST Pokemon for the lead match-up. Blazing fast U-Turn is great :D. Though...Mienfoo leads suck, Fake Out hurts =(. Don't lead with Taillow when they have Mienfoo.

 

[NatGeo]

Am I the only person who is finding Life Orb Ponyta to be amazing in this meta? The only things that outspeed it are Scarfers, and 19 Speed naturally along with a STAB Flare Blitz just wrecks unprepared teams. Scarf Ponyta isn't even that bad either because what it lacks in coverage (i.e. super effective Brave Bird) it makes up for in the sheer power of its moves. Use it more people!

Also, Drifloon is amazing if it hasn't been said already. Acrofloon just does so much damage that the only way you can kill it is revenging since almost nothing can take its attacks neutrally.

 

[blarajan]

What Ponyta set do you use? I want to fiddle with a new team and it sounds cool.

 

[masterful]

Am I the only person who is finding Life Orb Ponyta to be amazing in this meta? The only things that outspeed it are Scarfers, and 19 Speed naturally along with a STAB Flare Blitz just wrecks unprepared teams. Scarf Ponyta isn't even that bad either because what it lacks in coverage (i.e. super effective Brave Bird) it makes up for in the sheer power of its moves. Use it more people!

Also, Drifloon is amazing if it hasn't been said already. Acrofloon just does so much damage that the only way you can kill it is revenging since almost nothing can take its attacks neutrally.

The main problem with Ponyta is that you get your attack off, and then Diglett comes in and you cry deeply.

 

[iss]

What Ponyta set do you use? I want to fiddle with a new team and it sounds cool.

Flare Blitz/Wild Charge/Return/Morning Sun is the standard set. Flare Blitz + Quick Attack is illegal, although PO allows it.

 

[blarajan]

Damn, I wanted to use Quick Attack. And Masterful, Diglett is ridiculously easy to deal with. Thanks, iss, I'll make that when I get home.

 

[Blue_Star]

I support a Scraggy ban or a Meditite / Gligar / Misdreavus return, because they keep the metagame balanced. Also, I've been using Drilbur lately and it rocks.

 

[blarajan]

I support a Scraggy ban or a Meditite / Gligar / Misdreavus return, because they keep the metagame balanced. Also, I've been using Drilbur lately and it rocks.

In what way? Gligar was fucking ridiculous, as it was basically a Garchomp with amazing STABs, Baton Pass abilities, self recovery, and Stealth Rock..?

Etc.

It's not a balanced metagame when the biggest threats balance each other, requiring you to use them to do well.

I don't use Scraggy on a team, and I managed to get number 1 on the ladder for a bit. You don't need Scraggy to do well, but if you didn't have a Gligar or a Misdreavus you were doing it wrong.

 

[v]

Nothing is going to be unbanned.

 

[fatty]

in some ways, i've found that scraggy hinders my team building. it's a pretty good switch-in to a lot of stuff, but it doesn't really 'counter' things like it's fellow bulky fighters do, making them take precedence over it in a lot of my teams. this may just be me wanting to have a check to everything, but the only time i've ever put scraggy on a team is when im building a team around it.

anyways, with all the talk about ponyta and birds, i've found that having a rock-type on my teams has proved very beneficial. almost all of them have access to sr, they have incredible bulk and attack (for the most part), and obviously they take on those previously mentioned threats with no problem at all. some examples include rhyhorn (a personal favorite of mine), cranidos, and kabuto, among others.

 

[blarajan]

in some ways, i've found that scraggy hinders my team building. it's a pretty good switch-in to a lot of stuff, but it doesn't really 'counter' things like it's fellow bulky fighters do, making them take precedence over it in a lot of my teams. this may just be me wanting to have a check to everything, but the only time i've ever put scraggy on a team is when im building a team around it.

anyways, with all the talk about ponyta and birds, i've found that having a rock-type on my teams has proved very beneficial. almost all of them have access to sr, they have incredible bulk and attack (for the most part), and obviously they take on those previously mentioned threats with no problem at all. some examples include rhyhorn (a personal favorite of mine), cranidos, and kabuto, among others.

Geodude deserves a special mention due to access to priority and Superpower to take a shit ton out of Scraggy =).

But I must agree; Scraggy makes team building harder for me. I find Croagunk to be the most useful Fighting-type Pokemon as of now, just because it provides a very important check to Mienfoo/Timburr/Scraggy without Zen Headbutt, has Sucker Punch/Payback for Gastly, and can pose as a makeshift AcroLoon check. Seriously. Croagunk for most important Fighting-type of the year. And don't use Vacuum Wave or Life Orb, as they suck. Use an Eviolite one, with Sucker Punch/Drain Punch/Fake Out/Payback =).

 

[iss]

Geodude deserves a special mention due to access to priority and Superpower to take a shit ton out of Scraggy =).

But I must agree; Scraggy makes team building harder for me. I find Croagunk to be the most useful Fighting-type Pokemon as of now, just because it provides a very important check to Mienfoo/Timburr/Scraggy without Zen Headbutt, has Sucker Punch/Payback for Gastly, and can pose as a makeshift AcroLoon check. Seriously. Croagunk for most important Fighting-type of the year. And don't use Vacuum Wave or Life Orb, as they suck. Use an Eviolite one, with Sucker Punch/Drain Punch/Fake Out/Payback =).

Use Sucker Punch/Drain Punch/Vacuum Wave/Taunt with max speed Naive. Vacuum Wave is there so you don't get auto-swept by ZHB Scraggy. Taunt is useful as hell, as you beat SubHypnosis Gastly 100% instead of playing mindgames. 24/16/13 defenses is pretty good, and 13/13 offenses is enough for using Croagunk as a utility counter. You're also faster than SS Clamperl, meaning you can Taunt before it SS'es.

Honestly, Timburr has to be one of my favorites. Despite making my team pretty weak to Toxic Spikes, it just rips shit apart. Drain Punch + Mach Punch is almost unbeatable, and it just doesn't die. You need a STAB SE attack to kill it, and by then it might have just killed you already. Mach Punch 2HKOes Scarf Tailow, meaning it can't switch in. I like Stone Edge and Taunt in the last two slots just because of the utility. Stone Edge murders Drifloon and Taunt is just generally useful.

 

[Testknight]

Would Scraggy be balanced if Eviolite was banned? 1.5x double defenses with no disadvantage is overcentralizing nonsense anyways (pure numbers imbalance).

 

[NatGeo]

IMO, no it would still be unbalancing the metagame even if we had put in an Eviolite ban when we voted on that, and possibly even more so because the defenses of the Pokemon that could counter it (see: Eviolite Mienfoo) would be nullified, making them easy prey for, say, LO Scraggy or whatever teammate comes after that. Scraggy needs to go, that's sure, but Eviolite doesn't need to be banned. We already voted on it.

 

[Blue_Star]

Scarf Magnemite totally rocks on this metagame with its massive 20 special attack, Volt Switch, resistances to Stealth Rock, Shadow Ball, Brave Bird and immunity to Toxic, although it's hindered by the fighters.

 

[blarajan]

Magnemite is really one dimensional imo. and chinchou straight hard counters, which I enjoy.

 

[Zerohour17]

Choice scarf, arena trap diglet is a monster. played right, it wrecks face. Pawniard is a close second favorite of mine

 

[iss]

Scarf Diglett is complete and utter overkill. Use LO or Sash.

 

[The Kyle]

i use scarf digglet to kill scarf chinchou and scarf magnemite locked in flash cannon and it's good

 

[v]

I have used LO Diglett since the start of the gen and am very happy with it. I haven't played in a few weeks, but if Ferrothorn was still common I would replace the HP Ice I used for Gligar with HP Fire. Ferrothorn was a constant thorn in my poor little mole's side, and the free moveslot lets you revenge it easily.

 

[Zephyr]

Agreed with Diglett. (also Vader means Ferroseed :P)

Anyway, interestingly enough(imo) Sand has picken up quite a bit compared to past rounds...lol

 

[fatty]

yeah, it has. i think it's because people have finally realized that having a built in clamperl check, spinner (sometimes not), an overall revenge killer and a powerful physical presense in drilbur is almost too good to pass up for this meta. the spd boost on rock types (who wall the now common flyers) doesn't hurt either and with all the eviolite users, the extra sand damage is really handy. imo, all of this culminates in sand being one of the most dominant playstyles atm.